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Hay_jules
January 20th, 2017, 04:54 PM
Ive noticed that most of the silicone free conditioners I see have coconut oil in them. I use the Tresemme Botanique Nourish and Replenish with coconut milk (but have tried others with the same effect) and when I rinse it in hot water it feels like all the conditioning effect just rinses out too. I feel like I have to rinse it in cool water just to leave a little conditioning effect. However, when I use coney conditioner it feels like...well like the cones are doing their job and coating my hair and I can rinse in hot and it still feels conditioned.

**When I say hot I don't mean scalding, I'm a wimp and it's only the hot end of warm.

Anyway, it's not enough for me to just say my hair must like cones and use cones. I need to know why. Also, I use temporary veggie based dyes which fade enough as it is, I don't want to have to use sulphates all the time, which I feel the need to do if I'm using all this cones. I know a sulphate free conditioner can still remove some cones but my fine hair gets build up really easy.

My hair is severely bleach damaged and more frizzy than wavy and very porous but still fine and easily weighed down.

ephemeri
January 20th, 2017, 05:10 PM
Have you noticed this with other silicone free conditioners too? Or just the Tresemme Botanique?

likelikepenny
January 20th, 2017, 05:13 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with your porosity. Normal to high porosity does well with silicones because it has more cracks on it's surface that cones can easily bind to, making your hair feel soft and well moisturized.

Hay_jules
January 20th, 2017, 05:35 PM
Have you noticed this with other silicone free conditioners too? Or just the Tresemme Botanique?

I have a down under naturals conditioner that also has coconut oil and it does the same thing. But it's a lighter consistency than the Tresemme too. I haven't tried others yet.

Hay_jules
January 20th, 2017, 05:39 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with your porosity. Normal to high porosity does well with silicones because it has more cracks on it's surface that cones can easily bind to, making your hair feel soft and well moisturized.

That makes sense. Even when my hair is virgin it's on the higher porosity side, with the bleach though it's practically off the charts.

ephemeri
January 20th, 2017, 06:11 PM
I think a lot of it has to do with your porosity. Normal to high porosity does well with silicones because it has more cracks on it's surface that cones can easily bind to, making your hair feel soft and well moisturized.

I have high and normal porosity hair and it absolutely hates silicones. :shrug:

likelikepenny
January 20th, 2017, 07:05 PM
I have high and normal porosity hair and it absolutely hates silicones. :shrug:

Interesting...

lapushka
January 21st, 2017, 01:36 AM
When I use conditioners without silicones, I don't know... they mostly leave tangles, yeah, most of them do.

I do now have a hair mask by Kyrell (Aldi brand) and it has argan oil in it as the 3rd ingredient, the ingredient list is very short, there's no silicones, and there's no protein. It is *lovely* and moisturizing and can equal *the* silicone-conditioner that I love, which is the HE HH. It is that good.

Not all silicone-free things have coconut oil in them. So I guess it depends heavily on the product itself. I know those products can be expensive though. Coconut oil is cheap, which is probably why it's in a lot of affordable products without silicone.

likelikepenny
January 21st, 2017, 06:09 AM
I recommend trying tresseme perfectly undone. Theres a thread on it.

I've been using it lately and it works wonders, although the smell can be a little overwhelming (to me) at first. Maybe check it out?

Annalouise
January 21st, 2017, 08:25 AM
I'm not really sure what your question is? However, not all silicone conditioners are the same and not all silicone free conditioners are the same. If you are looking for a conditioner it might take a few tries to find one that you like. Also, if there is buildup on your hair this will interfere with new products you are trying. So clarify first is what I would suggest, before you switch to cone free conditioners.

In general cone free conditioners do not coat the hair to the degree that silicone conditioners do. So at first it will feel like your hair is not conditioned if you are used to the hairs being coated. That is when you have to experiment with a few different conditioners to find one that you like.

If your hair is severely bleach damaged, then you might just have to wait it out until healthy hair grows in and you eventually trim out the damaged hair. Once fine hair is damaged by bleach you can't turn that same hair into healthy hair. In which case, you might need silicone conditioner to mask the damage, as that is largely the purpose of silicones is cosmetic.

Hay_jules
January 21st, 2017, 10:56 AM
I'm not really sure what your question is? However, not all silicone conditioners are the same and not all silicone free conditioners are the same. If you are looking for a conditioner it might take a few tries to find one that you like. Also, if there is buildup on your hair this will interfere with new products you are trying. So clarify first is what I would suggest, before you switch to cone free conditioners.

In general cone free conditioners do not coat the hair to the degree that silicone conditioners do. So at first it will feel like your hair is not conditioned if you are used to the hairs being coated. That is when you have to experiment with a few different conditioners to find one that you like.

If your hair is severely bleach damaged, then you might just have to wait it out until healthy hair grows in and you eventually trim out the damaged hair. Once fine hair is damaged by bleach you can't turn that same hair into healthy hair. In which case, you might need silicone conditioner to mask the damage, as that is largely the purpose of silicones is cosmetic.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear about my question but you did answer it. Basically I was wondering, is it possible to get the coated, slippy feeling from a cone free conditioner? Or is it their very nature to not coat?

You answered perfectly. My hair is quite damaged from the bleach. It seems until I grow it out, my hair needs cones to help it look nice. It's kind of what I suspected. It makes me think I'll be trimming out the bleach and maitaining sooner than I had originally planned.

Hay_jules
January 21st, 2017, 11:03 AM
I recommend trying tresseme perfectly undone. Theres a thread on it.

I've been using it lately and it works wonders, although the smell can be a little overwhelming (to me) at first. Maybe check it out?

I was reading that thread and considered it but passed it up for coney herbal essence because I read in the thread that a lot of people found it quite similar to the Botanique I use. But when I need to replace my Botanique I'll try the perfectly undone. I'll still be using cone free conditioner to dilute my dyes.

Hay_jules
January 21st, 2017, 11:07 AM
When I use conditioners without silicones, I don't know... they mostly leave tangles, yeah, most of them do.

I do now have a hair mask by Kyrell (Aldi brand) and it has argan oil in it as the 3rd ingredient, the ingredient list is very short, there's no silicones, and there's no protein. It is *lovely* and moisturizing and can equal *the* silicone-conditioner that I love, which is the HE HH. It is that good.

Not all silicone-free things have coconut oil in them. So I guess it depends heavily on the product itself. I know those products can be expensive though. Coconut oil is cheap, which is probably why it's in a lot of affordable products without silicone.

Yes this is what I've been finding. The more natural, "healthier" products are quite pricey. I have a hard time taking a chance spending a lot of money on something that may or may not work.

pailin
January 21st, 2017, 11:56 AM
Not all people do have to clarify regularly when using coney conditioner. Have you had problems with buildup before? If not, then maybe you don't need to worry about it. If it is a problem, some cones don't build up so much; so you could also research this and try conditioners containing only those cones. Sciency hair blog has lists according to solubility.

For me, I've found similar problems with cone-free conditioners; most of them just don't seem to condition my hair at all. I only like one cone-free conditioner- Loteal Evercreme. Maybe that's just me, because I don't see anyone else on LHC liking it, but I love what it does to my hair. If I really wanted to be cone-free right now, I'd use that plus Kinky Curly Knot Today as a leave-in (I also like that as a cone-free, but only as a leave-in; I don't care for it as a rinse-out) plus oils. But I actually really like cones for slip, and I've taken to using large amounts of silicone serum, with the Loreal Evercreme or with coney conditioners.

Llama
January 21st, 2017, 08:52 PM
Not all people do have to clarify regularly when using coney conditioner. Have you had problems with buildup before? If not, then maybe you don't need to worry about it. If it is a problem, some cones don't build up so much; so you could also research this and try conditioners containing only those cones. Sciency hair blog has lists according to solubility.

For me, I've found similar problems with cone-free conditioners; most of them just don't seem to condition my hair at all. I only like one cone-free conditioner- Loteal Evercreme. Maybe that's just me, because I don't see anyone else on LHC liking it, but I love what it does to my hair. If I really wanted to be cone-free right now, I'd use that plus Kinky Curly Knot Today as a leave-in (I also like that as a cone-free, but only as a leave-in; I don't care for it as a rinse-out) plus oils. But I actually really like cones for slip, and I've taken to using large amounts of silicone serum, with the Loreal Evercreme or with coney conditioners.

I love the Loreal Evercreme conditioner. I forgot all about it but it used to be one of my favorites when I first started on lhc. I may have to repurchase it once I'm done with my current conditioner. You're right though, no one talks about that line which is surprising since it's silicone free and has been around for a long time.