A few questions - Help me love my hair again - Hard water & moisture

[Sw33th34rt4my]

As some of you know I was having issues with my hair. I have decided not to cut it and am holding off on hendigo as well. I want to love my hair again!

I have had very hard water for about 5 years now. We bought a shower head filter yesterday since we live in an apartment. From what I have been reading it looks like I need to use a chelating shampoo? Do you have any recommendations for one? Also, I've read that club soda works. Does it work in replace of a chelating shampoo? Do I need to clarify after the chelating shampoo? I also read that with hard water you should stay away from sulfates, is that true?

A little about my routine. I have been clarifying as needed for years. For the most part I CWC or WCC every 2-3 days. I also have been using Aussie 3 Minute Miracle once a week. Something I have never needed to to before. I use to be a total greaseball. Maybe my hair has changed with getting older and having more grey. What can I do to get the moisture back into my hair? Is it better to deep condition or do overnight oiling?

I looked through the hair typing guide and it seems that I am 1b/m/i

[Obsidian]

Yes, you need a actual chelating shampoo. Club soda or vinegar won't help much if you have a ton of build up or really hard water. I use joico clarifying, it chelates too and works great. It can be a bit pricey but is completely worth it, I read that you can get a paul mitchel chelating shampoo at ulta for less but I've not tried it yet.

Personally, I need a good thick coney conditioner for my hair, I use it with every wash and roughly once a week as a deep treatment. Oil doesn't really do much for my dry hair. It can help add shine and to tame fly aways but doesn't add moisture.

[pili]

I've used the Ion cheating shampoo from Sally's. It was OK. The shower filter helped more. I'd follow it up with a citric acid rinse. Oil really helps my dry hair, especially olive oil. I can't use coconut since it makes my hair dryer. Silicones help temporarily, but ultimately my hair ends up dryer with them over the long run.

[Chromis]

The shower filters help mostly with chlorine.

I've never used a chelating shampoo, but had great luck with doing a citric acid/ACV rinse. The "Miracle water" thread might have some good ideas for you too.

I do also oil my hair and I even oil my scalp a tiny bit since it gets so dry no matter what I have washed with. Some people like sulphates and others do not (my scalp hates them!).

[Anje]

There are little packets that you can get at places like Sally and mix with shampoo that will chelate, if you don't want to buy a bottle of special shampoo. Typically they're marketed for cleaning hair before processing, and contain chelators like sodium gluconate. This is the one that I used a few times: Ion crystal clarifying treatment (http://www.sallybeauty.com/crystal-clarifying-treatment/SBS-302208,default,pd.html). (Yes, it says clarifying instead of chelating, but the ingredients are clearly chelating ones.) You probably shouldn't have to clarify after chelating as a general rule, though if you've got product buildup as well, you may need to keep clarifying in your routine as well as chelating occasionally.

Definitely consider diluted vinegar or citric acid rinses regularly after showering. They're good at getting bits of hard water buildup off and maintaining hair, and they seem to also keep your shower nicer. :)

Generally speaking, sulfates are more useful for people with hard water than they are to people with soft water. Some of the other cleansers, like traditional saponified soaps, will react with the ions in hard water to create insoluble scum on things. (Gentle acid rinses are also useful for taking these off.) Sulfates don't react in the same way and rinse clean in hard water. Whether they work well for you personally is a different question (for example, Chromis does best with soap-based cleansers in her hard water), but I don't think you should rule out sulfates because you have hard water.

[stachelbeere]

Yes, you need a actual chelating shampoo. Club soda or vinegar won't help much if you have a ton of build up or really hard water. I use joico clarifying, it chelates too and works great. It can be a bit pricey but is completely worth it, I read that you can get a paul mitchel chelating shampoo at ulta for less but I've not tried it yet.

Personally, I need a good thick coney conditioner for my hair, I use it with every wash and roughly once a week as a deep treatment. Oil doesn't really do much for my dry hair. It can help add shine and to tame fly aways but doesn't add moisture.

I have the Paul Mitchel chelating shampoo and it's great! :)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I use the ion swimmers to chelate and it made my hair feel 10x better. I live in Los Angeles so hard water is a problem. Still figuring out how often I should do it and if I need to bother clarifying if I chelate...

[mizukitty]

I have extremely hard water issues and keep the build up in check with Pantene Ice Shine shampoo. It has enough chelants to bind to and remove the deposits. I use it biweekly (diluted) and it works beautifully. Shiny hair, no dullness! Joico one is recommended as well, albeit it's pricier.

Shower heads can remove chlorine and filter impurities like toxins and some bacteria, but they won't touch a mineral in the water. For that you need either a waterstick (mom and pop type shower filter, pricey) or an in house water softener with salt - the more obvious option.

I notice an incredible difference when washing with soft water in hotels. Hair is much shinier and less frizzy.

However, the chelating shampoos will definitely remove the problem for you. Just use them every once in a while and all should be well!

As for moisture, many conditioners with cones will do the trick. I gently comb the conditioner through my hair to help distribute it, and this works best for me.

[Annalouise]

I've been living in a *very hard water area for over 10 years. I've only chelated my hair once, with Joico Kpak clarifying shampoo.
I don't know if I'll ever chelate my hair again because I found it very stripping. I took a picture after chelating (and deep conditioning) and a lot of people remarked my hair looked damaged. It takes all the oils out of your hair so it left my hair looking lighter in color (hence the "sun damaged" observations). Whereas before chelating, my ends were not as "light" in color due to oils I guess.

It's pretty hard core stuff. Maybe someone else here can answer this - if you condition your hair, rinse, and then towel dry - how much hard water deposits remain on the hair? Isn't most of the water removed with a towel/t-shirt?

I'm not 100% convinced chelating is necessary. If you let your hair drip dry from soaking wet then maybe it builds up. :D

I don't know, like I said, I've only chelated once.:popcorn:

[pili]

I've been living in a *very hard water area for over 10 years. I've only chelated my hair once, with Joico Kpak clarifying shampoo.
I don't know if I'll ever chelate my hair again because I found it very stripping. I took a picture after chelating (and deep conditioning) and a lot of people remarked my hair looked damaged. It takes all the oils out of your hair so it left my hair looking lighter in color (hence the "sun damaged" observations). Whereas before chelating, my ends were not as "light" in color due to oils I guess.

It's pretty hard core stuff. Maybe someone else here can answer this - if you condition your hair, rinse, and then towel dry - how much hard water deposits remain on the hair? Isn't most of the water removed with a towel/t-shirt?

I'm not 100% convinced chelating is necessary. If you let your hair drip dry from soaking wet then maybe it builds up. :D

I don't know, like I said, I've only chelated once.:popcorn:
The minerals deposit inside the hair. Towel drying has nothing to do with the chemistry.

[mizukitty]

I've been living in a *very hard water area for over 10 years. I've only chelated my hair once, with Joico Kpak clarifying shampoo.
I don't know if I'll ever chelate my hair again because I found it very stripping. I took a picture after chelating (and deep conditioning) and a lot of people remarked my hair looked damaged. It takes all the oils out of your hair so it left my hair looking lighter in color (hence the "sun damaged" observations). Whereas before chelating, my ends were not as "light" in color due to oils I guess.

It's pretty hard core stuff. Maybe someone else here can answer this - if you condition your hair, rinse, and then towel dry - how much hard water deposits remain on the hair? Isn't most of the water removed with a towel/t-shirt?

I'm not 100% convinced chelating is necessary. If you let your hair drip dry from soaking wet then maybe it builds up. :D

I don't know, like I said, I've only chelated once.:popcorn:

Minerals bind to your hair via electrical charge. Minerals in water are positively charged, hair is largely negative (especially in damaged areas)

The pH of your water also has a lot to do with how many mineral cations will bind - if your water has a pH of 7, minerals will bind less so than if you had a pH of 8. If you're fortunate enough to have ~6, you probably don't need to worry too much, as they won't affect your hair much, if at all.

Someone with a hardness of let's say... 400ppm and a pH of 8 likely needs to chelate quite a bit. If they also have bleach damaged hair, I'd say pretty frequently.

The chelants in a formulation alone are not what stripped your hair. Those were mostly detergents. IIRC the joico one has some pretty strong ones. You can always make up a citric acid rinse yourself, as it'll be a lot more mild, but be wary you should pH test the rinse before you use it. Dumping a mixture with a pH of ~3 on your head is a terrible idea. You want to keep it around 4. I don't really believe citric acid doesn't chelate just like a "chelating shampoo", when those exact shampoos contain citric acid and sodium citrate, lol. It's just another way to sell products.

I prefer to use my ice shine as a 2 in 1. It clarifies when I need it to, as well as removing those bound minerals. Also diluting it pretty heavily did not decrease its chelating ability. It's also more convenient. I don't need to make up a batch of ACV or citric acid, and I don't need to fiddle around with my pH strips.

Anyway, no chelating certainly isn't NECESSARY. It's just something we do to pretty up our hair, like many things. I'm not convinced mineral build up really affects the health of the hair too much, but I really can't stand when my hair is dull and disgusting. It sort of looks like I haven't washed it, even though I just did. Bleh.

[Annalouise]

The minerals deposit inside the hair. Towel drying has nothing to do with the chemistry.

I thought hard water deposits sat on top of the hair?


Minerals bind to your hair via electrical charge. Minerals in water are positively charged, hair is largely negative (especially in damaged areas)

The pH of your water also has a lot to do with how many mineral cations will bind - if your water has a pH of 7, minerals will bind less so than if you had a pH of 8. If you're fortunate enough to have ~6, you probably don't need to worry too much, as they won't affect your hair much, if at all.

Someone with a hardness of let's say... 400ppm and a pH of 8 likely needs to chelate quite a bit. If they also have bleach damaged hair, I'd say pretty frequently.

The chelants in a formulation alone are not what stripped your hair. Those were mostly detergents. IIRC the joico one has some pretty strong ones. You can always make up a citric acid rinse yourself, as it'll be a lot more mild, but be wary you should pH test the rinse before you use it. Dumping a mixture with a pH of ~3 on your head is a terrible idea. You want to keep it around 4. I don't really believe citric acid doesn't chelate just like a "chelating shampoo", when those exact shampoos contain citric acid and sodium citrate, lol. It's just another way to sell products.

I prefer to use my ice shine as a 2 in 1. It clarifies when I need it to, as well as removing those bound minerals. Also diluting it pretty heavily did not decrease its chelating ability. It's also more convenient. I don't need to make up a batch of ACV or citric acid, and I don't need to fiddle around with my pH strips.

Anyway, no chelating certainly isn't NECESSARY. It's just something we do to pretty up our hair, like many things. I'm not convinced mineral build up really affects the health of the hair too much, but I really can't stand when my hair is dull and disgusting. It sort of looks like I haven't washed it, even though I just did. Bleh.

Yes, I suppose it does give the hair a "bleh" appearance. Thank you for your detailed response. :) Again, I have to weigh the benefits/risks. My hair is very fragile at waist. I hate using the extreme cleansers on it. Perhaps it was just the Joico Kpak clarifier that I didn't like.

[Deborah]

I have very hard water. I did not find that using a shower filter made any difference to my hair.

[spidermom]

I thought hard water deposits sat on top of the hair?

.

You are right. The minerals bind to the hair; they do not penetrate the hair.

[pili]

You are right. The minerals bind to the hair; they do not penetrate the hair.

My understanding was that they (hard water minerals) compete with Conditioner for binding sites.

[hanne jensen]

I have very hard water. 21GBH and 8.5 ph. It's so hard that I can walk on it. I de-mineralize my hair every 6 weeks with a concoction consistint of 2 parts ACV to 1 part water. I add a dollop of clarifying poo and gently mix. I apply to wet hair and then stuff my hair under a showercap and leave the shower. I wait 5 minutes and then start rinsing very well and then follow up with a very moisturizing conditioner. I use clarifying poo because I figure that there are products stuck to the minerals.

All of the minerals stuck to my hair makes it appear darker. After de-mineralizing my hair is 3-4 shades lighter. No more velcro ends or snappy brittle hair. My gray hairs shine and look pretty.

[Anje]

I have very hard water. 21GBH and 8.5 ph. It's so hard that I can walk on it. I de-mineralize my hair every 6 weeks with a concoction consistint of 2 parts ACV to 1 part water. I add a dollop of clarifying poo and gently mix. I apply to wet hair and then stuff my hair under a showercap and leave the shower. I wait 5 minutes and then start rinsing very well and then follow up with a very moisturizing conditioner. I use clarifying poo because I figure that there are products stuck to the minerals.

All of the minerals stuck to my hair makes it appear darker. After de-mineralizing my hair is 3-4 shades lighter. No more velcro ends or snappy brittle hair. My gray hairs shine and look pretty.
Ah, you're getting up toward what mine was before we moved to my current town! (This was a house and then a few apartments ago.) I think we had 27 GBH, IIRC. It was bad. The dishwasher was disgusting because it had been allowed to build up. In the rentals we had later, we were pretty strictly "no saponified soap" because it made the showers impossibly scummy.

Now the new place already had a softener, and it's only set to around 18 or 20 GBH. Water here is somewhat softer, I guess.

[Arctic]

I can recommend Redken Cleansing Creme shampoo, it's both chelating and clarifying, which is a win-win in my books! I don't have hard water but there are some minerals in my water and my hair gets buildup very fast. But from online reviews this stuff works reliable for even very hard well water. When you clarify and/or chelate, don't use anything pre-shampoo. Use as much product as you need to get you whole hair covered, all the way to the tips. The minerals and buildup usually are worse on the ends, so concentrate your efforts there. The Redken shampoo recommended (for bad buildup/mineral deposits) to let the lather sit under a shower can in warm for 10 or so minutes before rinsing. Then do a deep treatment.

You will have easier time adding moisture to your hair after chelating/clarifying. Lately I have liked to moisten my hair every evening with a bit of water (you could use distilled water) and diluted conditioner. Hair feels amazing in the morning. I also have been using pre-poo oiling lately, just a quickie before shampooing.

[Sw33th34rt4my]

Sorry, it took me so long to reply. I have been very sick since I posted this. Thank you for all the wonderful information! I will look through it better after my son goes to bed and I can concentrate on it better. :)

[Sw33th34rt4my]

I also just noticed that one of my main conditioners has protein in it. Maybe my hair doesn't like all the protein?

[Anje]

I also just noticed that one of my main conditioners has protein in it. Maybe my hair doesn't like all the protein?

Could be. Mine doesn't usually care for protein much and gets rough and tangly if I accidentally use it more than rarely. Try rotating your conditioners, or stick with one for a little while and see how your hair feels, then change to the next. Just because your hair might not like a protein conditioner used consistently, though, doesn't mean it won't like protein used occasionally, so you don't need to toss it out even if you don't get good results using it every wash.

[mizukitty]

I have very hard water. 21GBH and 8.5 ph. It's so hard that I can walk on it. I de-mineralize my hair every 6 weeks with a concoction consistint of 2 parts ACV to 1 part water. I add a dollop of clarifying poo and gently mix. I apply to wet hair and then stuff my hair under a showercap and leave the shower. I wait 5 minutes and then start rinsing very well and then follow up with a very moisturizing conditioner. I use clarifying poo because I figure that there are products stuck to the minerals.

All of the minerals stuck to my hair makes it appear darker. After de-mineralizing my hair is 3-4 shades lighter. No more velcro ends or snappy brittle hair. My gray hairs shine and look pretty.

Thanks for sharing your experiences! It's always so fascinating to see how things like water affect hair. Isn't it awesome how shiny your hair comes out after removing the minerals? I'm always baffled my hair is even CAPABLE of looking like that!

[Kaya]

I can recommend Redken Cleansing Creme shampoo, it's both chelating and clarifying, which is a win-win in my books! I don't have hard water but there are some minerals in my water and my hair gets buildup very fast. But from online reviews this stuff works reliable for even very hard well water. When you clarify and/or chelate, don't use anything pre-shampoo. Use as much product as you need to get you whole hair covered, all the way to the tips. The minerals and buildup usually are worse on the ends, so concentrate your efforts there. The Redken shampoo recommended (for bad buildup/mineral deposits) to let the lather sit under a shower can in warm for 10 or so minutes before rinsing. Then do a deep treatment.

You will have easier time adding moisture to your hair after chelating/clarifying. Lately I have liked to moisten my hair every evening with a bit of water (you could use distilled water) and diluted conditioner. Hair feels amazing in the morning. I also have been using pre-poo oiling lately, just a quickie before shampooing.

I can also vouch for the Redken Cleansing Cream shampoo. :) It's quite wonderful. Nice citrusy scent, effective chelating, leaving my hair feeling refreshed and not feeling completely stripped. Course, I usually follow up with Nightblooming's Selkie detangler spray, not an in-shower conditioning treatment, but the next morning hair is nice and soft. :o

[Sw33th34rt4my]

I see that Redken has wheat in it. We are a gluten free household, even bath products so I wouldn't be able to use it. I was looking at the ingredients that chelate. I found an old bottle of Suave Kids Swim and Sport. It has Sodium Citrate, Tetrasodium EDTA and Citric Acid in it. Would this work as a chelating shampoo? All the bottle says is that it removes chlorine.

[Obsidian]

Yes, swimmers shampoos are for chelating. Give it a try and see if it helps.

[mizukitty]

I see that Redken has wheat in it. We are a gluten free household, even bath products so I wouldn't be able to use it. I was looking at the ingredients that chelate. I found an old bottle of Suave Kids Swim and Sport. It has Sodium Citrate, Tetrasodium EDTA and Citric Acid in it. Would this work as a chelating shampoo? All the bottle says is that it removes chlorine.

As long as those are not the very last ingredients, yes. Used in minuscule quantities they basically stabilize the formula and prevent that from reacting with the hard water, so it can clean. But if it's higher up there, there's a higher chance it'll actually remove them from your hair as well.

[Sw33th34rt4my]

Thank you for all the help everyone! I really appreciate it!