Can you have damage without splits or white dots?

[ephemeri]

Hey science-y hair folks! I know you're out there because I've seen some amazingly detailed explanations of things on these forums (and I love it!). I'm just wondering --

How do you know when your hair is damaged?
Are there other signs of damage beyond splits or white dots? (or do I have to do hair analysis to find out?)

[lapushka]

IMMHO, no. But opinions differ greatly on this, I'm afraid. You're opening a can of worms. ;) :p

[Obsidian]

I believe yes. After recently bleaching my hair, I have damage in the form of weak, easily snapped hair that gets excessively stretchy when wet. Yet I don't have one split end or white dot.

I've done some really bad things to my hair over the years, never seen a white dot. Not even when my hair was so bad it was breaking off in chunks.

[lapushka]

I believe yes. After recently bleaching my hair, I have damage in the form of weak, easily snapped hair that gets excessively stretchy when wet. Yet I don't have one split end or white dot.

I've done some really bad things to my hair over the years, never seen a white dot. Not even when my hair was so bad it was breaking off in chunks.

Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking of bleach damage. I've had my share of mushy, stretchy soaked spaghetti noodle hair. :lol:

[LadyCelestina]

IMMHO, no. But opinions differ greatly on this, I'm afraid. You're opening a can of worms. ;) :p

Yes! You just did :D

Everything is damaging to your hair. Splits, breakage and white dots are just sings of significant damage happening to the hair. Like tans -every tan damages your skin a bit, but if you tan once your are not going to be immediately wrinkly (or worse.

ETA: The question is how much the damage that is not splits, breakage, dots matters to you. For example I do prefer to keep the length relatively healthy because of better curl pattern/less tangling.

[lapushka]

IDK, my hair's pretty healthy, if you ask me. Virgin (got rid of dye, bleach, henna & perms ages ago), and no splits & white dots or sun damage or anything. I do believe healthy hair exists. ;)

[Obsidian]

Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking of bleach damage. I've had my share of mushy, stretchy soaked spaghetti noodle hair. :lol:

Luckily my hair isn't that bad lol. There are other things that can damage hair besides bleach, consider baking soda or other things that change the PH. The worse damage I had was from shampoo bars, hair looked healthy until the day it started breaking off in chunks.

[daisychain]

I've noticed damage in my hair with my ends looking lighter, and it was virgin hair. Just got really dry, had to cut about 3 inches off because it was tangling and breaking. Not sure if that's what you meant, but that's just my experience.

[lithostoic]

Yah. I have very few splits and no white dots but my hair is obviously damaged.

[Entangled]

Yes, because you can damage the cuticle of the hair and damage its structure in other ways and places than splits at the tip.

But, of hair is damaged and fragile, the likelihood for splits is high.

[Emmeline]

My own opinion (of my own hair) is yes. Mine has become dry and stiff on the ends - mainly through over washing and use of sulphate shampoos. I wouldn't call that healthy hair - yet it rarely, if ever, splits.

[Hay_jules]

I also have bleach damage that is fairly significant. I don't use any heat on my hair and avoid drying sulphates mostly and cone free. But my bleached hair (went from level 2 dark brown to level 7-8 blonde) is dryer, permanently swelled and has lost most of my curl. But zero splits or white dots. Not since I stopped heat styling.

[Anje]

Sure. Cuticles can be worn away, UV damage can become significant, and there's always various forms of chemical damage from bleach and perms that can weaken hair and make it less able to retain moisture to stay flexible. If these aren't to the extent where the hair is broken or breaking, you don't have splits or white dots.

Frankly, no one's hair is as pristine when it's long as it was the day it grew out of their scalp. Scales get chipped or sloughed off even with careful handling and lots of protection. You can take that in a way to make you worried about protecting your hair always, but you're also free to accept that some damage is a byproduct of living your life and that that's OK.

[Arctic]

I would also say yes. I didn't even know what split end was, until my friend showed me few in her own hair. I must have been about 13 or so. I almost never get splits. I also don't get white dots higher up the hair shaft. If I get damage, it's breakage (which often leaves a white tip on the hair), bent ends, and protein overload does terrible things to my ends, making them crinkly and stiff. Growing out henna gave me tons of damage, my whole canopy broke off at the demacration line. One can also get weathered hair (even if it's be just the ends) even with best of care.

This being said, before I learned to properly clarify, I believe for most of my life I have mistaken build up to damage. I always went to get my hair trimmed when my "ends went bad" - which I know know have been buildup mostly.

[ephemeri]

Yah. I have very few splits and no white dots but my hair is obviously damaged.

What makes the damage obvious to you?


Yes, because you can damage the cuticle of the hair and damage its structure in other ways and places than splits at the tip.

That's what I thought, thanks for answering.


Sure. Cuticles can be worn away, UV damage can become significant, and there's always various forms of chemical damage from bleach and perms that can weaken hair and make it less able to retain moisture to stay flexible. If these aren't to the extent where the hair is broken or breaking, you don't have splits or white dots.

That makes sense. Is there any way that you personally tell if/when your hair is damaged? I feel like the last few inches of my hair are damaged. I know they are higher porosity because they have box dye underneath the henna but they also seem drier, more tangly, and more fuzzy at times. However, I rarely get splits and have never (knock on wood) seen a white dot in my life. Also, when I clarify they get soft again. Still more fuzzy than the rest of my hair but.... So I wasn't sure if I could definitely say there is damage there.


I would also say yes. I didn't even know what split end was, until my friend showed me few in her own hair. I must have been about 13 or so. I almost never get splits. I also don't get white dots higher up the hair shaft. If I get damage, it's breakage (which often leaves a white tip on the hair), bent ends, and protein overload does terrible things to my ends, making them crinkly and stiff. Growing out henna gave me tons of damage, my whole canopy broke off at the demacration line. One can also get weathered hair (even if it's be just the ends) even with best of care.

This being said, before I learned to properly clarify, I believe for most of my life I have mistaken build up to damage. I always went to get my hair trimmed when my "ends went bad" - which I know know have been buildup mostly.


Oh wow that is intense about the henna! I'm sorry that happened to you.

Yes, this is the confusing thing because when I clarify, it seems my ends get soft again. I guess it's time to trim when they stay dry and tangly even after I clarify? :confused:

[vampyyri]

I would sure say so, some strands of mine apparently have lost all of their cuticles:

http://i.imgur.com/NM30OXS.png

It doesn't look like damage, my ends just look a bit thinner/weathered.

[Anje]

That makes sense. Is there any way that you personally tell if/when your hair is damaged? I feel like the last few inches of my hair are damaged. I know they are higher porosity because they have box dye underneath the henna but they also seem drier, more tangly, and more fuzzy at times.
All the things you described can be signs. For me, the slipperiness of my hair changes and isn't remedied by clarifying.

Now, just because you have some damage doesn't mean you have to chop back to where your hair is all perfect. That's a recipe for never growing your hair at all, if you're seeking perfection. Most older hair needs a little extra babying. Sometimes that's a bit of oil post-wash, or a little silicone serum if your hair likes that stuff. (Mine doesn't like it and gets dry when I use it, so I don't.) Sometimes it's a quick "apply conditioner to braid ends and rinse in the sink" between washes. As long as your hair isn't being super tangled and feeling nasty to the point where it's driving you bonkers and looks awful, you can probably nurse it along. You just have to be careful with it and maintain good habits so that the healthier hair above it keeps moving down along your body as well. If that stops, it's probably time for a cut.

[ephemeri]

I would sure say so, some strands of mine apparently have lost all of their cuticles:

http://i.imgur.com/NM30OXS.png

It doesn't look like damage, my ends just look a bit thinner/weathered.

Isn't that so fascinating? I want to do the hair analysis but I'm also hesitant... Maybe I'll wait until I hit my goal length. :o


All the things you described can be signs. For me, the slipperiness of my hair changes and isn't remedied by clarifying.

Now, just because you have some damage doesn't mean you have to chop back to where your hair is all perfect. That's a recipe for never growing your hair at all, if you're seeking perfection. Most older hair needs a little extra babying. Sometimes that's a bit of oil post-wash, or a little silicone serum if your hair likes that stuff. (Mine doesn't like it and gets dry when I use it, so I don't.) Sometimes it's a quick "apply conditioner to braid ends and rinse in the sink" between washes. As long as your hair isn't being super tangled and feeling nasty to the point where it's driving you bonkers and looks awful, you can probably nurse it along. You just have to be careful with it and maintain good habits so that the healthier hair above it keeps moving down along your body as well. If that stops, it's probably time for a cut.

Thank you for posting that. That is exactly the explanation I needed. :toast:

[mizukitty]

Sure. Cuticles can be worn away, UV damage can become significant, and there's always various forms of chemical damage from bleach and perms that can weaken hair and make it less able to retain moisture to stay flexible. If these aren't to the extent where the hair is broken or breaking, you don't have splits or white dots.

Frankly, no one's hair is as pristine when it's long as it was the day it grew out of their scalp. Scales get chipped or sloughed off even with careful handling and lots of protection. You can take that in a way to make you worried about protecting your hair always, but you're also free to accept that some damage is a byproduct of living your life and that that's OK.

Pretty much everything that was said here. When your individual hairs become rough as you slide your fingers down them, it could be a sign of a damaged cuticle. It could also just be naturally high porosity hair, or a coarse hair. But I have a clump of very rough strands of hair that are definitely damaged from citric acid rinses that were way more acidic than my hair could handle. The rest of my hair is smooth and squeaky.

[cgirl]

Hey science-y hair folks! I know you're out there because I've seen some amazingly detailed explanations of things on these forums (and I love it!). I'm just wondering --

How do you know when your hair is damaged?
Are there other signs of damage beyond splits or white dots? (or do I have to do hair analysis to find out?)

Since the bad straight perm, I have searched and destroyed the splits and white dots like crazy. So I don't find more than two even when I go at it for hours. But my hair is still damaged. It just doesn't feel real. It has a halloween store wig quality to it and I start to panic that I lost my old hair and it's going to take years to get back.

It has gotten much better though since I found the forum. I sometimes have to choose between my scalp and my hair, they want different things. So I'm going to listen to my scalp. If I can grow it out to waist-hip, then I can start really cutting it back and still be able to reach BSL, where I almost am.

I'm thinking one day my straight-permed hair will make a good braid tail (and a good braid tale!:cheese:). I have probably got at least two years before it gets to shoulder though. Sometimes it feels like a prison sentence! :patrol: But what's two years? Really? Time goes by fast. Really, once it gets to about chin-shoulder, I can start washing or not washing the permed hair separately, and my face will be surrounded by real hair.

Sometimes I wonder if my natural hair and follicles can feel the chemical treated hair like a dead weight though and it may be straining. I've read that some people have better growth after cutting out the damage. But I have like only 2" of natural hair at the moment and 13"-16" of chemical depending on where you measure. I want to keep it long so that it stays in a bun to get it up and out of the way to avoid more damage. :couch:

But how good will it feel in a few years when I cut the finally do chop off all the damage? It will feel very good!:happydance:

Sorry to ramble! :thud:

[lapushka]

With the amount I've had trimmed last November, I'm no longer worried... if at all about potential damage. I've had virgin hair for quite some time now and I do think you can get to a place of "relative hair health"; all of us.

Interesting, V! That is *so* odd to see hair(s) without cuticles.

[sumidha]

I think it's a bit of a the chicken or the egg type thing, sure you can damage your hair in all different kinds of ways, but I think for 90% of people, that damage will eventually start to visibly manifest as breaks and splits. :)

[Annalouise]

I think there is aging, and then there is damage. The hair naturally ages over time and there is no way to stop that. Just like wrinkles... try growing old without getting wrinkles. :p But damage is what you do to your hair on top of the cleaning and grooming.:):shrug: