I need advice on whether or not a pre-shampoo oil treatment...

[Epie]

is right for me! So my hair is definitely type 2A. The individual strands vary in texture. They are neither really coarse, nor fine so I consider myself an M here. As for volume - I would wager a ii. It is not thin, but not super thick either. My pony tails are on the smaller side. Nevertheless, after every single wash, I have the annoying overly light, poof hair. On my Sunday washes, I deep condition, but not even that helps. On my Wednesday washes, I apply hair oil to the shafts and ends of my hair and that helps somewhat, but the poof and lack of weight is still annoying.

I'd shampoo less than 2 days a week, but my scalp becomes so grossly oily on day three without a wash. Any suggestions? Would switching my oil application to a treatment before a shampoo and regular conditioning help? And how could I modify my deep conditioning on Sundays so that it does not weigh my hair down, but gives it more weight and body? I leave the deep conditioner in for 10 minutes - sometimes a little more. Would a pre-shampoo on these days also help?

Any suggestions would be very appreciated. Here is my current routine in detail for those who want to make suggestions:

For the cold/cooler months:

Sunday: Shampoo with Hask Chia Seed volumizing shampoo. Condition with Hask Chia Seed volumizing conditioner for five minutes. Deep condition with Hask Keratin deep conditioner for ten minutes.

Wednesday: Shampoo with Hask Chia Seed volumizing shampoo. Condition with Hask Chia Seed volumizing conditioner for five minutes. After the shower, apply Hask Monoi coconut oil to the shafts and ends of the hair.

- Between washes I use Batiste dry shampoo if the scalp gets oily ( during the three days between a Wednesday and Sunday it gets so oily). I'll spritz a leave-in spray-on conditioner onto the ends if the dry shampoo is a bit drying, too.

- Once a month on a Sunday I use Suave Daily Clarifying shampoo to strip out any product build up. Then I follow up with Hask Keratin deep conditioner.

I no longer use styling products. :D

Thanks in advance ladies!

[lapushka]

Poofy hair happens to all of us after wash day. The only thing that *helps* is keeping it well-moisturized, but there's a fine balance between poof & weighed down hair. You could try the CWC or WCC methods (the thread to the latter is in my signature and the former thread is currently floating around).

Some people can't stretch washes, and that's okay too. :flower:

[spidermom]

I have very floaty hair after a wash. It looks like every hair takes off toward the sky in its own trajectory. No lie! I rely on product to weigh it down - styling gel or curl creme.

[hayheadsbird]

I can second cwc, but my hair behaves differently to yours.

[Anje]

It might be worth a try, but I was never impressed by the effects of oiling before shampooing on my own hair, which is a fairly similar type to yours.

Have you tried CO washing? It's not for everyone, but if you have a scalp that reacts to dryness from shampoo by making more oil (my face is also "combination" and quite like that), going to a milder wash method means that your oil production will drop within a couple weeks. Also, CO washing means far less "poofiness" to the hair. Failing that (or with a scalp that doesn't like CO, which is pretty common), it's worth trying to wash only at the roots. In my case, the easy way of doing this was to dilute my shampoo drastically (like 10:1) in a spare bottle, then just squirt the watery shampoo directly at my scalp. It distributed the shampoo better on my scalp and allowed me to concentrate on washing there without moving my hair around much to move the suds. Every few weeks, I'd bring the shampoo down my length, just to make sure that was clean. But washing scalp-only also reduces the clean floatiness of hair.

[mizukitty]

The shampoo you are using by Hask contains quite a bit of sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate, which is a really powerful cleansing agent. It's kind of on par with sulfates, to be honest. I have the Hask moisture something with it, and the poof after it is UNREAL. Extremely dry ends too. It's definitely not a gentle shampoo. Something with cocamidopropyl betaine is a gentler option, but you can also dilute it (I definitely do when I use it)

Sciency hair blog recommends this ingredient for tons of silicone build up as it removes them extremely well (it bonds better IIRC), but the link is escaping me right now. I can dig it up if you really want.

Also the term "volumizing" in shampoo basically suggests it's going to strip the daylights out of your hair. Build up, oils, *maybe* minerals, but generally volume in the cosmetic industry is associated with "lightness" in the hair, ie, nothing to weigh it down.

Pre poo oiling can be a great addition to anyone's routine, just don't slather so much onto your hair that you need a ton of shampoo to remove it. Glide a pea size over sections of your hair so you can see it. But any more than that in my own experience isn't beneficial (just annoying) Some love to apply a ton and find it works better, but that's something you kinda have to experiment with.

Co washing if your scalp likes it is a great option for frequent hair washers. I do this between shampoos to retain some moisture and love it.

[Epie]

Wow - you guys all have really great advice. Thank you. I am going to sift through all of it and try each method one at a time with a few weeks in between each. Oh and mizikitty, I totally understand what you are saying. I tend to go for slightly stronger cleansing agents and volumizing shampoos because on the flip side if I use overly moisturizing shampoos, my hair then becomes overly weighed down and just gross. I have that strange in-between hair. So I definitely need at least a weekly shampoo and condition with my regular Hask products.

Honestly, the method that sounds most appealing to me right now is co-washing. I remember in the past trying to use a pre-shampoo and my hair was just like: HAHA nope. I was, however, under the impression that co-washing is only for people with extremely thick, super coarse hair. Have I been misled? Is someone with my type of hair a good candidate for co-washing? I am guessing a nice light, but still moisturizing co-wash would be a good option. Does that even exist? Ugh, this would be easier is my hair was firmly in the thick coarse, curly or the fine, stick straight category. >_<

Basically I need a solid balance of nice volume but weight and body.

[meteor]

I'd definitely give it a whirl, if you haven't yet tried it. ;)
The study "Effect of mineral oil, sunflower oil and coconut oil on prevention of hair damage" (http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf) showed that coconut oil pre-wash (0.2 ml of oil per tress (each tress ~ 3 +/-0.5 gr) applied for 14 hours) dramatically reduced damage, measured by water retention index and protein loss in hair. Penetrating oils help "water-proof" the cortex a little bit and temporarily manage porosity, which should help reduce poofiness.

Also, I notice that you use "volumizing" conditioners, but those tend to be light and focused on not weighing hair down. But if you have problems with poofy hair, maybe I'd look for more "moisturizing" products (especially during dry winter months) and products marketed for processed, damaged and dry hair.

[littlestarface]

I'd definitely give it a whirl, if you haven't yet tried it. ;)
The study "Effect of mineral oil, sunflower oil and coconut oil on prevention of hair damage" (http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf) showed that coconut oil pre-wash (0.2 ml of oil per tress (each tress ~ 3 +/-0.5 gr) applied for 14 hours) dramatically reduced damage, measured by water retention index and protein loss in hair. Penetrating oils help "water-proof" the cortex a little bit and temporarily manage porosity, which should help reduce poofiness.

Also, I notice that you use "volumizing" conditioners, but those tend to be light and focused on not weighing hair down. But if you have problems with poofy hair, maybe I'd look for more "moisturizing" products (especially during dry winter months) and products marketed for processed, damaged and dry hair.

Oh man I do something right finally, I leave that oil in my hair 14++ haha.

[ipickee]

In the winter, my hair adores oils. Castor for the scalp, and almond, avocado, or jojoba for the length. Can't get enough of it. In the summer, it's a little more sensitive to oils. Kinda like a kid rebelling at the idea of sunscreen. "But I don't NEED it!"

[mizukitty]

Wow - you guys all have really great advice. Thank you. I am going to sift through all of it and try each method one at a time with a few weeks in between each. Oh and mizikitty, I totally understand what you are saying. I tend to go for slightly stronger cleansing agents and volumizing shampoos because on the flip side if I use overly moisturizing shampoos, my hair then becomes overly weighed down and just gross. I have that strange in-between hair. So I definitely need at least a weekly shampoo and condition with my regular Hask products.

Honestly, the method that sounds most appealing to me right now is co-washing. I remember in the past trying to use a pre-shampoo and my hair was just like: HAHA nope. I was, however, under the impression that co-washing is only for people with extremely thick, super coarse hair. Have I been misled? Is someone with my type of hair a good candidate for co-washing? I am guessing a nice light, but still moisturizing co-wash would be a good option. Does that even exist? Ugh, this would be easier is my hair was firmly in the thick coarse, curly or the fine, stick straight category. >_<

Basically I need a solid balance of nice volume but weight and body.

I get you!! My hair is kind of half fine, half medium. It grows randomly all over. And definitely not curly or really too wavy even. I've had a lot of great results with Suave Daily clarifying conditioner for it. Short ingredient list, runny consistency. Basically just emulsifies your sebum and rinses it away. It doesn't overly strip anything, and always gives me a TON of volume. A lot have success with cheapie vo5 as well, but those make my hair nasty. No idea why. It'll be YMMV.

Silicones (I think dimethicone was the most problematic for me) can weigh hair down depending on the type (amodimethicone is okay IIRC), so I might avoid those in a CO wash. But really, any runny one will do the job. Just leave it on for a little bit (5 min) and use enough. You need to agitate the scalp a little more than with shampoo too, to loosen stuff on your scalp. Don't rub your length like crazy or anything (a light coating should do it) :lol:

[Epie]

I get you!! My hair is kind of half fine, half medium. It grows randomly all over. And definitely not curly or really too wavy even. I've had a lot of great results with Suave Daily clarifying conditioner for it. Short ingredient list, runny consistency. Basically just emulsifies your sebum and rinses it away. It doesn't overly strip anything, and always gives me a TON of volume. A lot have success with cheapie vo5 as well, but those make my hair nasty. No idea why. It'll be YMMV.

Silicones (I think dimethicone was the most problematic for me) can weigh hair down depending on the type (amodimethicone is okay IIRC), so I might avoid those in a CO wash. But really, any runny one will do the job. Just leave it on for a little bit (5 min) and use enough. You need to agitate the scalp a little more than with shampoo too, to loosen stuff on your scalp. Don't rub your length like crazy or anything (a light coating should do it) :lol:

Thanks so much! I really do not want to give up my Hask Volumizing shampoo and conditioner. Hopefully replacing my Wednesday wash with a co-wash and post-shower oil treatment will balance out the stripping effects of the Volumizing shampoo and conditioner. I still need that complete cleansing effect and Volumizing effect so hopefully this will do the job. 😭

P.S.: I am going to try the V05 revitalizing blackberry sage conditioner for co-wash. *crosses fingers*.

[Anje]

Honestly, the method that sounds most appealing to me right now is co-washing. I remember in the past trying to use a pre-shampoo and my hair was just like: HAHA nope. I was, however, under the impression that co-washing is only for people with extremely thick, super coarse hair. Have I been misled? Is someone with my type of hair a good candidate for co-washing? I am guessing a nice light, but still moisturizing co-wash would be a good option. Does that even exist? Ugh, this would be easier is my hair was firmly in the thick coarse, curly or the fine, stick straight category. >_<

I did very well with CO, with my hairtype. My hair isn't particularly thick either, and I've always had a ponytail that took 3 wraps of your standard ponytail holder and then sagged a bit because it wasn't super tight. The only reason I got out of the habit was because I'd cut bangs and I needed a bit of extra cleansing for them. And got my scalp hooked on cleansing with stronger stuff as a consequence. Since my hair dries fairly quickly and I actually enjoy the washing part, I wasn't strongly motivated to convert back.

My go-to conditioner for CO is Suave Naturals Aloe and Waterlily. (I like the scent and it doesn't seem to build up on me.) I had bad luck specifically with Tropical Coconut, where it made my hair stiff and grippy with what turned out to be protein overload, but many many people find that the coconut is the ideal conditioner for them to CO with. SMTs with a no-protein conditioner was what fixed the protein for me, in case you need that information. :)

[Epie]

Anje - my hair actually likes protein so I use a deep conditioner that contains protein once a week. I think the key is balance. If I find a good cheapie co-conditioner and oil without protein maybe I will get that much sought after balance.

I do have another question for you ladies. Currently, I use Suave Daily Clarifying Shampoo once a month to "clarify" my hair from build up. However, of my current hair products do not necessitate this, I would like to drop the Suave because well - I prefer to use less products after all.

Currently I use the Hask Volumizing set and in the summer I planned to use the Hask charocoal clarifying set. Do you guys think the ingredients in these two sets are cleansing (aka stripping enough) that the Suave is not needed at all?

Here are links to the products and their ingredients:

http://www.ulta.com/chia-volumizing-shampoo?productId=xlsImpprod14431311


http://www.ulta.com/chia-volumizing-conditioner?productId=xlsImpprod14431313

http://www.ulta.com/charcoal-clarifying-shampoo?productId=xlsImpprod13451065

http://www.ulta.com/charcoal-clarifying-conditioner?productId=xlsImpprod13451067

[Anje]

Buildup is super individual, honestly. What gives me buildup might not give you buildup, and vice-versa. I generally suggest keeping a clarifying shampoo around and using it when your hair feels buildup-y or if it's just nonspecificly bothering you, rather than clarifying on a schedule. :)

[Epie]

Buildup is super individual, honestly. What gives me buildup might not give you buildup, and vice-versa. I generally suggest keeping a clarifying shampoo around and using it when your hair feels buildup-y or if it's just nonspecificly bothering you, rather than clarifying on a schedule. :)

Ah - thank you Anje. This makes sense. I will keep the Suave on hand then.

So I guess I am going to attempt this:

Sunday: cleanse with Hask Volumizing shampoo. Condition with Hask volumizing conditioner. Deep condition with Hask Keratin deep conditioner for 10 minutes.

Wednesday: co-wash with V05 revitalizing blackberry sage conditioner. Let hair air dry. Apply Hask Monoi shine oil. Leave alone.

Dry shampoo only as needed and clarifying shampoo only as needed. Hope this has the desired effects. 😭

Oh! I forgot to mention I do try to keep the shampoo away from the length of my hair but it is really hard to do especially because my hair is on the shorter side right now. The shampoo ends up easily sliding down my hair and my hair gets caught up as I gently massage my scalp. Any advice here ladies?

[Dark40]

A pre-shampoo or an hot oil treatment I think will help you. I get poofy hair a lot also, and that really helps me.

[Deborah]

I think the point of volumizing shampoos and conditioners is to make the hair a bit poofy, so if you want your hair not to puff up, try different products.

[Cannelle]

I second what Deborah said. Volumizing shampoos and conditioners rough up the hair's cuticle, therefore creating some volume. However, this also allows the hair to soak up a lot more water than usual and makes it brittle in the long run. As far as I know Hask shampoos & conditioners also contain a lot of protein. Using them too frequently can cause breakage and makes hair feel stiff for many people, including myself.

[LadyCelestina]

A nice bonus I get from oil treatments is that my curls seem to get a kind of hold as if I had used a light gel, just on their own. You're a 2a so maybe that would be a nice effect for you, especially since more hold = less fluff ?

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Hask products contain A LOT of protein though. And even though your hair likes protein, there is such thing as too much not being a good thing. My hair use to love protein then suddenly in the last 2 years, my hair hates it and doesn't want it as much anymore. I quit coconut oil, sparingly using henna and don't do much when it comes to protein treatments. I have 1, and I bought it almost a month ago and still haven't used it, so that tells you something. I would really experiment, remove one thing at a time and see what changes and what doesn't. :)

[Epie]

Hask products contain A LOT of protein though. And even though your hair likes protein, there is such thing as too much not being a good thing. My hair use to love protein then suddenly in the last 2 years, my hair hates it and doesn't want it as much anymore. I quit coconut oil, sparingly using henna and don't do much when it comes to protein treatments. I have 1, and I bought it almost a month ago and still haven't used it, so that tells you something. I would really experiment, remove one thing at a time and see what changes and what doesn't. :)

I think you ladies may be right about the protein. Not all of the Hask products, however, have protein in them. I think what I am going to do is cut back on the Hask deep conditioners. I was doing them once a week, but that is when I started to notice even more poof and drier strands. On the flip side, if I am too heavy on the moisturizing my hair becomes lank and flat. I am of the belief that hair needs protein and moisture in balance. The issue is that the way to get that balance is unique to everyone. I have to figure it out.

Instead doing a weekly deep conditioner with my Hask deep conditioners, I am going to go to every other week and keep cutting back until it works because I know my hair needs some protein but the issue is finding out how often. I am still also going to replace one of my two weekly washes with a co-wash. I will let you all know how it goes!

p.s.: also going to quit using straight coconut oil as soon as I use up my two vials and switch to just argan oil. Balance, balance.

[Ophidian]

:scissors:Oh! I forgot to mention I do try to keep the shampoo away from the length of my hair but it is really hard to do especially because my hair is on the shorter side right now. The shampoo ends up easily sliding down my hair and my hair gets caught up as I gently massage my scalp. Any advice here ladies?

My hair is on the shorter side too. What I do is put some conditioner from the ears down on first before I shampoo the scalp, focusing on the ends. Then after shampooing, you can rinse it all out and condition again if you wish. There's more info about this on the CWC thread if you need it:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=53421&page=40

[MudderOfDragunz]

I find, especially in the dry seasons, that alternating my washes (I wash twice a week and wet my hair down in the shower and add conditioner to the ends in between wash days) with CO washing and oil soaking before a standard SLS shampoo and conditioner really helps with the poof and flyaway factor. Also, sometimes, if it's still bothering me, I'll lotion of my hands until most of the lotion is gone and then lightly finger comb my hair after its dried. Sometimes you do have to embrace the fact that your hair will be slightly more sentient on a wash day, but there are ways of taming the beast :D