Cut my hair

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I did Feyes method, for a U cut. I had a pretty weird V shape going on, cut about 1/2". I do not know why my hair looks so straight, maybe because its been in a bun the last two days but it doesnt look very different to me... Should I cut more? Maybe I should wait until I can wash my hair and can see the natural texture again and see if the V went away.. it just looked so sgraggly and gross to me.
This is before:
https://s6.postimg.org/xeo50lfe9/Full_Size_Render.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/9oypbwh0x/IMG_7820.jpg
And this is today:
https://s23.postimg.org/7tzq0od97/Full_Size_Render.jpg
Today I saw a L shaped end that was about 1/2" long today when I was detangling my bun. It triggered something in me so I cut my hair when I got home.
I usually cut off about 1/4" or less every month, because my layers gave me this horrible taper and it makes my hair look so thin. But after seeing a large piece break off in my hands while detangling, it was just like... ewwww. NO. And I had to cut it. I bought a chelating shampoo, didnt try it out. I could not wait, I needed the damage to come off... Im sick of seeing L shaped ends but the way my hair looks.. it looks like nothing got trimmed off to me..

I wonder if monthly micro trims aren't so great for growing? Should I stop?
I want length, and I thought cutting small amounts each month would help because I would see myself losing less length, but maybe I should try larger trims spaced out. 1/2" every 3-4 months?
This is my 6 month difference, from when I started LHC up again and then 6 months later.
Huge difference in the quality of my hair but I thought that at this point, my hair would stop breaking off already...
https://s6.postimg.org/gb4d88jzl/Full_Size_Render.jpg


Sorry some photos are so large.
Anyway. What do you guys think?
Are regular larger trims better?

I feel like I am getting nowhere fast... I just want to hit BSL already!!! Ugh. :rolleyes:

[ReadingRenee]

I think your ends look way better than mine! I personally don't see a lot of difference in your before and after pictures, except a slightly different hemline shape. It really doesn't look scraggly, but its just my opinion. :)

eta Im talking about your first 3 pictures, not the pictures of when you joined LHC, there is a HUGE difference there! Your hair looks so healthy and with thick ends now. :)

[-Fern]

Did you cut your hair while it was dry? I like for my hair to be damp (I take a shower, then let it get about 30-40% dry) before doing a trim. I didn't trim for about 9 months last year, but I plan to trim every 3 or 4 months this year. I also only plan to trim about 1/4" at a time. On average, your hair should grow about 1/2" a month, so if you trim every 4 months, you should still see visible progress. When I used to get L-shaped ends, it was from using ponytail holders to secure my buns. Sticks helped a huge amount with that. ^_^

[Arctic]

Patience, Grasshopper!

I personally do think that occasional larger trims do one good, whether one trim also smaller quantities regularly or does not trim in between.

I know some people here have been able to grow length AND trim damage off but I don't think all can do it for one reason or another: maybe their growth rate is slower, maybe they just can't mentally take the damage. It sounds like your situation right now is pulling in 2 directions which might not be able to find a shared ground. If you can't stand damaged ends you need to cut. If you want to speed towards your goal you must not cut (or cut very slowly). I think you need to consider which is a priority and make decisions. Sometimes compromise works but not always.

I wouldn't feel stress about gaining length: it will come and time passes so very quickly! Soon it's christmas again! :D

BTW I think your latest photos looked great and I see lot of improvement! :cheer:

[cgirl]

I wouldn't feel stress about gaining length: it will come and time passes so very quickly! Soon it's christmas again! :D


I sure hope so, I miss Christmas already! :heart:

[RavenRose]

I see a big difference between the 6 month photos! because of your waves and whirls I can't tell that you have scraggy or damaged ends, it looks very pretty and healthy in today's photos.

I do a 1/2" trim every 6-8 weeks because of bleach damage I am growing out. If I don't I have issues with splits, bends, and dots, especially in the dry winter. Despite weekly deep conditioning and WCC+LOC. It took me All of last year to get to BSL (stretched) from just above APL which is only about 3 inches of visible growth. Some days I do get so frustrated with the damage that I am temped to chop it back to collar again and be rid of it all, but then I won't be able to keep putting it up in the buns/braids my fragile hair needs to grow. last October I got frustrated enough to cut layers back in to help with the damage, which helped me immensely. Sometimes if my ends get Velcro before the 6-8 weeks I try an extra clarify and sometimes that helps.

[pili]

I know how you feel. I did the same as you. I had so much bleach damage and I hoped microtrims and putting it up would help, but unfortunately I got so disgusted with the ends snapping off every time I moved that I chopped from APL + to collarbone. I regret the loss of length and wish I was a more patient person, but I'm really not.

[Bambi]

Maybe you could put it up as much as you can and try not to focus on your ends? I think it's hard but give it a go, once you hit BSL you can start trimming again and when you're ready resume your quest for long tresses.

Damaged ends are the worst...that's why I either wear my hair up, braided or wurly;).

[lapushka]

I think you are going to be in a *lot* of trouble if one end on one hair can cause you to cut your hair. This way, you will never reach BSL, if you keep doing this. L-shaped ends, to me, personally, aren't even damage but just a result of styles and bunning and the way your hair happens to fall. A wash might have solved it!

Honestly, I'd try to calm myself next time, and not make such a rash decision to cut your hair.

Your hair was pretty damaged from looking at the 1st picture. That has to grow out, and will take minimum about 2 years to reach that length. It's like starting from bald. Like Arctic said, "Patience Grasshopper"!

[Wosie]

I think you are going to be in a *lot* of trouble if one end on one hair can cause you to cut your hair. This way, you will never reach BSL, if you keep doing this. L-shaped ends, to me, personally, aren't even damage but just a result of styles and bunning and the way your hair happens to fall. A wash might have solved it!

Honestly, I'd try to calm myself next time, and not make such a rash decision to cut your hair.

Your hair was pretty damaged from looking at the 1st picture. That has to grow out, and will take minimum about 2 years to reach that length. It's like starting from bald. Like Arctic said, "Patience Grasshopper"!

I agree about the L-shaped ends not necessarily meaning your hair is damaged. If I see a hair looking like that, or otherwise oddly-shaped, I just put it in the sink under rushing water, and after a few seconds it looks perfectly normal again. :)

[lapushka]

I agree about the L-shaped ends not necessarily meaning your hair is damaged. If I see a hair looking like that, or otherwise oddly-shaped, I just put it in the sink under rushing water, and after a few seconds it looks perfectly normal again. :)

That could actually be a good test!

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I think you are going to be in a *lot* of trouble if one end on one hair can cause you to cut your hair. This way, you will never reach BSL, if you keep doing this. L-shaped ends, to me, personally, aren't even damage but just a result of styles and bunning and the way your hair happens to fall. A wash might have solved it!

Honestly, I'd try to calm myself next time, and not make such a rash decision to cut your hair.

Your hair was pretty damaged from looking at the 1st picture. That has to grow out, and will take minimum about 2 years to reach that length. It's like starting from bald. Like Arctic said, "Patience Grasshopper"!

Ok -- so since you have suggested this twice now -- and im assuming you never saw my previous responses -- it is DAMAGE. It NEEDS to be cut off. I understand that wet bunning and other things can cause bent ends, but these have white bulbs and break off when they are wet.

Oh lookie, found one in my bangs. This is hair that I did not touch with shears and have not seen shears regularly.

https://s6.postimg.org/ir5rq8xm9/FullSizeRender.jpg
Let me just bend it a little to be sure.
https://s6.postimg.org/x7t14tn3l/FullSizeRender_2.jpg
Oh boy, it snapped off... shocking.
https://s6.postimg.org/yo4jmyq0h/FullSizeRender_3.jpg

See what I mean now?

It was not 1 hair, in the end, as you can see, and I never stated I only saw 1 hair... Just one that was 1/2" long which is when I knew it needed to be cut, trust me, If you read my previous forums you would know that I have been dealing with L shaped ends for awhile and after 2 weeks decided the trim needed to happen -- this one just snapped the camels back so to say. They are all over at different lengths. My length seems to be in better shape then the face framing layers but I saw more than one, and hair that never sees shears usually eventually snap off. I know the difference between a bent end and an off shoot, these are off shoots.

[lapushka]

I had those, and I never touched them. :shrug: Mine never snapped off, though - that is the weirdest thing.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Patience, Grasshopper!

I personally do think that occasional larger trims do one good, whether one trim also smaller quantities regularly or does not trim in between.

I know some people here have been able to grow length AND trim damage off but I don't think all can do it for one reason or another: maybe their growth rate is slower, maybe they just can't mentally take the damage. It sounds like your situation right now is pulling in 2 directions which might not be able to find a shared ground. If you can't stand damaged ends you need to cut. If you want to speed towards your goal you must not cut (or cut very slowly). I think you need to consider which is a priority and make decisions. Sometimes compromise works but not always.

I wouldn't feel stress about gaining length: it will come and time passes so very quickly! Soon it's christmas again! :D

BTW I think your latest photos looked great and I see lot of improvement! :cheer:

Thank you, to be honest that photo looks way worse than my hair actually looked. Because it looks like its highlighted but photos of me elsewhere and it looks normal.

I just get pretty frustrated, because I tried the whole 1 year no trims and my hair stayed at APL. It never got longer than that.
I tried the no trims for 4 months and it worked better for me. But if I dont cut it my hair just breaks off eventually... I wish I knew why. I take care of myself, no health problems im aware of. I eat well. I take pretty good care of my hair and have had several large chops to pixie to remove lots of bleach. But the breakage persists even though I havent touched heat since 2012, havent colored with chemicals or bleach in 3 years. I guess at this point, it is a apart of my hair type... Im lucky because I have no goals for floor length hair. But it is annoying because I have never had long hair ever in my whole life. I have been here for almost 7 years and still havent hit a goal.

Its frustrating.

[Arctic]

Thank you, to be honest that photo looks way worse than my hair actually looked. Because it looks like its highlighted but photos of me elsewhere and it looks normal.

I just get pretty frustrated, because I tried the whole 1 year no trims and my hair stayed at APL. It never got longer than that.
I tried the no trims for 4 months and it worked better for me. But if I dont cut it my hair just breaks off eventually... I wish I knew why. I take care of myself, no health problems im aware of. I eat well. I take pretty good care of my hair and have had several large chops to pixie to remove lots of bleach. But the breakage persists even though I havent touched heat since 2012, havent colored with chemicals or bleach in 3 years. I guess at this point, it is a apart of my hair type... Im lucky because I have no goals for floor length hair. But it is annoying because I have never had long hair ever in my whole life. I have been here for almost 7 years and still havent hit a goal.

Its frustrating.

I can understand it being frustrating, having hair problems you can't seem to be able to correct. Depending how fast your hair grows, your heat damage should be already grown out, but you might still have some bleach damage on your ends?

Do you do all the LHC type hair care and protecting tricks? Well, obviously no-one can and should do them all, but you know, treat your hair really gently (antique lace and all that) and keeping it moisturised and up/protected? Have you considered hair analysis? It might give lot of insights.

The no trimming doesn't work for many, and looks like you are one of them - at least now before you get your hair damage-free. Do you think your hair was breaking off during the no-trimming year, or that you have shorter terminal length or that it had a long stall then?

I'm sorry I don't have any ideas for you right now, it sounds like you have done your homework and treat your hair and yourself well. If you feel like it, maybe you could type a very detailed list of things that you do or which you have tried already.


ETA: You might have seen this split end/damage chart before: http://i1.wp.com/therighthairstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/6-different-types-of-split-ends.jpg?resize=500%2C500

[bparnell75]

You might want to examine your bush. Only use a detangler and use it gently. Any way hold on, your new hair toys are on the way and you should get them this week. just bun for a few months and don't worry about the ends.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I can understand it being frustrating, having hair problems you can't seem to be able to correct. Depending how fast your hair grows, your heat damage should be already grown out, but you might still have some bleach damage on your ends?

Do you do all the LHC type hair care and protecting tricks? Well, obviously no-one can and should do them all, but you know, treat your hair really gently (antique lace and all that) and keeping it moisturised and up/protected? Have you considered hair analysis? It might give lot of insights.

The no trimming doesn't work for many, and looks like you are one of them - at least now before you get your hair damage-free. Do you think your hair was breaking off during the no-trimming year, or that you have shorter terminal length or that it had a long stall then?

I'm sorry I don't have any ideas for you right now, it sounds like you have done your homework and treat your hair and yourself well. If you feel like it, maybe you could type a very detailed list of things that you do or which you have tried already.


ETA: You might have seen this split end/damage chart before: http://i1.wp.com/therighthairstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/6-different-types-of-split-ends.jpg?resize=500%2C500

I actually am planning to get that hair analysis done soon. I have an issue with gathering a good amount of shed without eventually needing oil or a leave in. But eventually.
The only thing I haven't tried yet, is catnip, which I have already... Just need to actually seep and make it.

I'll make a list of everything I do soon, I'm using my tablet right now and its a bit hard to type.

[Jenny21]

My hair does the same thing as far as breakage goes and I've recently realized my hair needs lots of protein.. have you tried protein on your hair?

[pili]

Thank you, to be honest that photo looks way worse than my hair actually looked. Because it looks like its highlighted but photos of me elsewhere and it looks normal.

I just get pretty frustrated, because I tried the whole 1 year no trims and my hair stayed at APL. It never got longer than that.
I tried the no trims for 4 months and it worked better for me. But if I dont cut it my hair just breaks off eventually... I wish I knew why. I take care of myself, no health problems im aware of. I eat well. I take pretty good care of my hair and have had several large chops to pixie to remove lots of bleach. But the breakage persists even though I havent touched heat since 2012, havent colored with chemicals or bleach in 3 years. I guess at this point, it is a apart of my hair type... Im lucky because I have no goals for floor length hair. But it is annoying because I have never had long hair ever in my whole life. I have been here for almost 7 years and still havent hit a goal.

Its frustrating.
Is there any chance there may be an underlying medical cause? Would you consider or have you had blood work done? It might be worth asking your doctor. Also, there are undiagnosed medical reasons that may be limiting nutrient absobtion (i.e. celiac, hypothyroidism) which could be contributing.

I don't want to sound alarmist, but since you've been trying to do everything right for so long, it may be time to look a little deeper.

[ruffian]

I usually just lurk around here, but after reading about OP's anxiety about the L-shaped ends (which I also experience from time to time), I figured I should leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichorrhexis_nodosa

There's nothing earth shattering in the article, no miracle cure or even anything particularly helpful (other than the same common sense things others have already mentioned here in this thread), but in a sad way it's somewhat comforting just knowing that it's a "real thing" and that others go through it as well. :shrug:

I never noticed these L-shaped ends until the past year, and for the life of me can't figure out what actually causes them - different shampoo? Hard water? Bad brush/brushing technique? Who knows. They seem to just come and go at random no matter how gentle and mindful I am with my hair (although they did seem to coincide with my switching to a boar-bristle brush, and I have not eliminated it as a suspect yet...:suspect:). I've more or less come to the conclusion that they are a big part of the reason my hair has been stalled at (barely) tailbone with thin ends for the last year; when I've had no problem growing to fingertip length with full ends in the past.

The best advice I can give is just keep babying your hair and try not to think about them too much (easier said than done, I know; they're really disheartening when you find them). Like the article says, it's almost assuredly a benign/temporary condition - the only thing it can hurt is your self-esteem.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I usually just lurk around here, but after reading about OP's anxiety about the L-shaped ends (which I also experience from time to time), I figured I should leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichorrhexis_nodosa

There's nothing earth shattering in the article, no miracle cure or even anything particularly helpful (other than the same common sense things others have already mentioned here in this thread), but in a sad way it's somewhat comforting just knowing that it's a "real thing" and that others go through it as well. :shrug:

I never noticed these L-shaped ends until the past year, and for the life of me can't figure out what actually causes them - different shampoo? Hard water? Bad brush/brushing technique? Who knows. They seem to just come and go at random no matter how gentle and mindful I am with my hair (although they did seem to coincide with my switching to a boar-bristle brush, and I have not eliminated it as a suspect yet...:suspect:). I've more or less come to the conclusion that they are a big part of the reason my hair has been stalled at (barely) tailbone with thin ends for the last year; when I've had no problem growing to fingertip length with full ends in the past.

The best advice I can give is just keep babying your hair and try not to think about them too much (easier said than done, I know; they're really disheartening when you find them). Like the article says, it's almost assuredly a benign/temporary condition - the only thing it can hurt is your self-esteem.

I just dont know if I should leave them alone or cut them off regularly. Forum me would say to cut them. But.


You might want to examine your bush. Only use a detangler and use it gently. Any way hold on, your new hair toys are on the way and you should get them this week. just bun for a few months and don't worry about the ends.

I got the hair toys today!!! you sent me so many!! thank you so so so much!!!

Is there any chance there may be an underlying medical cause? Would you consider or have you had blood work done? It might be worth asking your doctor. Also, there are undiagnosed medical reasons that may be limiting nutrient absobtion (i.e. celiac, hypothyroidism) which could be contributing.

I don't want to sound alarmist, but since you've been trying to do everything right for so long, it may be time to look a little deeper.

I have been tested for just about everything, had a colonoscopy even. All good health wise. I take my vitamins and take care of myself.

[ruffian]

I just dont know if I should leave them alone or cut them off regularly. Forum me would say to cut them. But.
I wish I knew the answer. The temptation is to cut them, for sure. All I know is that I cut them off just above the "node" as I found them (sort of like an extreme S&D mission) for months...and I honestly think my hair is no better off for it. I think I've managed to thin out my hemline something awful by getting obsessed with eliminating the little buggers. :( So my plan of action now is to leave 'em alone and *try* to ignore them - if they break, they break - just trim my hair like normal, and keep searching for the cause of the problem in the meantime. I don't think it's necessarily the same cause from person to person. Like you I'm pretty healthy so I can only assume it is the result of something I am doing either mechanically, or via products or routine.

Anyway I'm sorry I can't be of any real help; I just wanted to commiserate.

[Llama]

I get those bent hairs too sometimes and I just trim them off. They would break off and leave a frayed end if I were to just leave them there.
I'm sorry you are struggling. Looking forward to hearing your routine so that we can give you better advice hopefully :flowers:

[pili]

Rebeccalaurenxx, I went back and red your original post. The last picture showed quite a difference in hair color. Did you have your hair bleached before and then dyed it back?you said those two side-by-side shots were a six month's difference. Is that correct?

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Rebeccalaurenxx, I went back and red your original post. The last picture showed quite a difference in hair color. Did you have your hair bleached before and then dyed it back?you said those two side-by-side shots were a six month's difference. Is that correct?

Like I said in an earlier post, for some reason it looks incredibly worse in that photo I think because of the light in my bedroom, it only ever looked that way in my room when I took length shots in my bedroom! I have a habit of not taking length shots in the same place twice so when I made that comparison photo i used what I could find. I'll try to find and post other photos of my previous color before I started henna and indigo when I get out of class this afternoon. Because my hair had no high lights done. I think my hair does start to naturally ombre itself but no, those ends are not touched by bleach.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

My hair does the same thing as far as breakage goes and I've recently realized my hair needs lots of protein.. have you tried protein on your hair?

Protein usually makes my hair feel stiff...

[pili]

By any chance do you know what the water quality is in your area? When I lived in FL we had incredibly hard water and my hair would break off and not grow as well. Crunch ends, brittle dryness. When we moved to CA, same thing. Then we moved up into the mountains and got off the city water supply. Now we have soft water, and my hair loves it. Water quality can have a big affect on certain types of hair. My hair also hates protein and coconut oil. I get nasty, dry, crunch if exposed to either.

You can tell me to shut up. I just came back to the forums not long ago and so haven't seen all your posts. Not sure if these things have been brought up before. Just trying to help.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

By any chance do you know what the water quality is in your area? When I lived in FL we had incredibly hard water and my hair would break off and not grow as well. Crunch ends, brittle dryness. When we moved to CA, same thing. Then we moved up into the mountains and got off the city water supply. Now we have soft water, and my hair loves it. Water quality can have a big affect on certain types of hair. My hair also hates protein and coconut oil. I get nasty, dry, crunch if exposed to either.

You can tell me to shut up. I just came back to the forums not long ago and so haven't seen all your posts. Not sure if these things have been brought up before. Just trying to help.


I live in Los Angeles and from what I know, the water here is terrible. I did buy a swimmers shampoo so I'm going to give that a try with my next wash. :) I just don't wash for a good 3-4 days so it takes time for me to start something new. I am going to give it a try though, my hair feels better with ACV rinses so I'm sure it'll help somewhat.

[Deborah]

I think you might need to trim off a couple more inches. That would most likely get rid of lots more damage, and give you a better restart to keep growing. I'm sure you can achieve long hair, you just may need to remove more damage first.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I think you might need to trim off a couple more inches. That would most likely get rid of lots more damage, and give you a better restart to keep growing. I'm sure you can achieve long hair, you just may need to remove more damage first.
No thanks.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

By any chance do you know what the water quality is in your area? When I lived in FL we had incredibly hard water and my hair would break off and not grow as well. Crunch ends, brittle dryness. When we moved to CA, same thing. Then we moved up into the mountains and got off the city water supply. Now we have soft water, and my hair loves it. Water quality can have a big affect on certain types of hair. My hair also hates protein and coconut oil. I get nasty, dry, crunch if exposed to either.

You can tell me to shut up. I just came back to the forums not long ago and so haven't seen all your posts. Not sure if these things have been brought up before. Just trying to help.

I use the cheating shampoo, I can't tell just yet fully but I don't think it ended up doing very much. My hair feels nice but it feels the same way it did before. My hair didn't feel bad before I just get these weird off shoots.
I'll figure it out eventually I guess...

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I get those bent hairs too sometimes and I just trim them off. They would break off and leave a frayed end if I were to just leave them there.
I'm sorry you are struggling. Looking forward to hearing your routine so that we can give you better advice hopefully :flowers:

I've finally been able to log in through my phOne so I'll try to give you guys an idea of what my wash days are like and in between.

So wash day, really depends on the day, but I usually use a shampoo with sulphates. I'm going to try and switch to a sulphate free shampoo bar. I was a co-washer on and off for several years but it just didn't work for me. I never felt clean enough and I have SD so I need sulphates eventually in the form of a medicated shampoo. So every other wash (which is about every 2-3 days) I CWC. Condition with VO5 strawberries and cream (protein) then Wash with a shampoo; either my medicated sulsun blue or a random sulphate free shampoo. My shampoo changes regularly but I want to fix that so I bought some CV shampoo bars. Final condition is usually an SMT (biolage GVP + honey + aloe) along with a ACV (if I remember, sometimes I forget the ACV) afterward I let my hair air dry or wrap it in a cotton shirt and once it's a little drier dab a little coconut oil in or some other oil. Just a little as too much makes my hair extremely oily and if I put it in completely wet hair I look like I'm greasy.

After that, that's about it. I finger detangle, or use a tangle teezer and then up it goes with a hair fork or stick, either that or hair screws. I don't do braids and I don't wet bun. I don't touch heat or cones. Day 2, re oil and throw back up. Day 3 I either wash or oil again one final time before washing again.
Once every 2-3 months I henna and indigo.
I clarify with a real clarifying or cheleating shampoo once a month. ACV almost every wash. Idk, I'm simple.

I'm pretty minimal when it comes to manipulation and product. I'm hoping that it's the sulphates and it'll go away when I make the switch to shampoo bars. I also want to give cat nip rinses a try too. I'm curious if I should switch back to cones too.. I know they simply hold hair together but now that I clarify regularly I'm wondering if I should switch back.

[pili]

I've finally been able to log in through my phOne so I'll try to give you guys an idea of what my wash days are like and in between.

So wash day, really depends on the day, but I usually use a shampoo with sulphates. I'm going to try and switch to a sulphate free shampoo bar. I was a co-washer on and off for several years but it just didn't work for me. I never felt clean enough and I have SD so I need sulphates eventually in the form of a medicated shampoo. So every other wash (which is about every 2-3 days) I CWC. Condition with VO5 strawberries and cream (protein) then Wash with a shampoo; either my medicated sulsun blue or a random sulphate free shampoo. My shampoo changes regularly but I want to fix that so I bought some CV shampoo bars. Final condition is usually an SMT (biolage GVP + honey + aloe) along with a ACV (if I remember, sometimes I forget the ACV) afterward I let my hair air dry or wrap it in a cotton shirt and once it's a little drier dab a little coconut oil in or some other oil. Just a little as too much makes my hair extremely oily and if I put it in completely wet hair I look like I'm greasy.

After that, that's about it. I finger detangle, or use a tangle teezer and then up it goes with a hair fork or stick, either that or hair screws. I don't do braids and I don't wet bun. I don't touch heat or cones. Day 2, re oil and throw back up. Day 3 I either wash or oil again one final time before washing again.
Once every 2-3 months I henna and indigo.
I clarify with a real clarifying or cheleating shampoo once a month. ACV almost every wash. Idk, I'm simple.

I'm pretty minimal when it comes to manipulation and product. I'm hoping that it's the sulphates and it'll go away when I make the switch to shampoo bars. I also want to give cat nip rinses a try too. I'm curious if I should switch back to cones too.. I know they simply hold hair together but now that I clarify regularly I'm wondering if I should switch back.
I could be totally wrong, but it almost sounds like protein overload. Coconut oil can keep protein from leaving the hair, and if you are high porosity, then it will make it brittle. And Henna also can make your hair protein sensitive. Add in hard water which high poprosity hair hates and that may be your problem.

ETA article: http://blackgirllonghair.com/2013/07/4-ways-to-manage-protein-sensitive-hair/

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I could be totally wrong, but it almost sounds like protein overload. Coconut oil can keep protein from leaving the hair, and if you are high porosity, then it will make it brittle. And Henna also can make your hair protein sensitive. Add in hard water which high poprosity hair hates and that may be your problem.

ETA article: http://blackgirllonghair.com/2013/07/4-ways-to-manage-protein-sensitive-hair/


Is it possible to be so sensitive to it that you can't use it at all? VO5 is the only conditioner I use or shampoo for that matter, that has protein in it. I really like using henna and indigo too.. but I guess if I have to stop I will. Or maybe do it less often? I only need maybe two more two steps before my hair is super dark... I just remember being told you need to balance protein and moisture and I knew my hair didn't love protein so I give it way more moisture than protein. I don't deep treat with protein but I just realized that the SM deep treatment I bought yesterday has proteins in it.... I kind of still want to try it but maybe I shouldn't if you think I may be sensitive to protein.

It's day two, and after using the chelator yesterday my hair feels really nice still and maybe better actually than before. I don't know why but day two hair tends to feel better than wash day hair. It's weird. I totally need to use this stuff more often. Hard water is totally a part of the issue! I see a little less bent hairs. I actually fell asleep with loose hair last night and my hair was only a little tangled and not a knotted mess like it usually is when I sleep loose. I'd say that's an improvement.

[pili]

Is it possible to be so sensitive to it that you can't use it at all? VO5 is the only conditioner I use or shampoo for that matter, that has protein in it. I really like using henna and indigo too.. but I guess if I have to stop I will. Or maybe do it less often? I only need maybe two more two steps before my hair is super dark... I just remember being told you need to balance protein and moisture and I knew my hair didn't love protein so I give it way more moisture than protein. I don't deep treat with protein but I just realized that the SM deep treatment I bought yesterday has proteins in it.... I kind of still want to try it but maybe I shouldn't if you think I may be sensitive to protein.

It's day two, and after using the chelator yesterday my hair feels really nice still and maybe better actually than before. I don't know why but day two hair tends to feel better than wash day hair. It's weird. I totally need to use this stuff more often. Hard water is totally a part of the issue! I see a little less bent hairs. I actually fell asleep with loose hair last night and my hair was only a little tangled and not a knotted mess like it usually is when I sleep loose. I'd say that's an improvement.
That's great that the shampoo is helping!

Yes, it is possible to be that sensitive. I can't use any protien at all and coconut oil has to be minimal to never. It is possible the Henna is making your hair protien sensitive. I'm not famiar with henna, but I've seen stuff, like in the article I listed. I'm on my phone right now or I'd link the protien sensitive thread for you. How about you switch out the coconut oil for some different ones? Maybe avocado for sealing and olive oil for deep treatment, and cut out any protien you have. Do some research on what protien looks like on a label since it can read as something else. Oh! Also look at a shower filter. I think Mercola makes one that helps with hardwater and chlorine (another high porosity hair killer).

It will take some time to see change if it the issue is too much protien, since you have to give your hair time to shed the excess.

[pastina]

I think Pili might be right on it being too much protein. Not because of the henna or the Vo5.... because of the coconut oil. I bleach and dye regularly, which tends to cause protein loss-- but when I do, I pretreat with coconut oil to seal those proteins in. It's potent stuff!

You're right, you need to balance protein and moisture. And I think that if you were just using the Vo5 and then a moisturizing conditioner, you'd be fine. But the coconut oil on top, and re-oiling on day two/three might be the issue?

My thought is, maybe switching up your post-wash oil routine would help... like switching to a different type? Hopefully someone with more extensive oil-knowledge can chime in with that? I'm pretty useless on what to suggest to ya. hah

Eta-- looks like we cross posted, lol

[lapushka]

I think Pili might be right on it being too much protein. Not because of the henna or the Vo5.... because of the coconut oil. I bleach and dye regularly, which tends to cause protein loss-- but when I do, I pretreat with coconut oil to seal those proteins in. It's potent stuff!

You're right, you need to balance protein and moisture. And I think that if you were just using the Vo5 and then a moisturizing conditioner, you'd be fine. But the coconut oil on top, and re-oiling on day two/three might be the issue?

My thought is, maybe switching up your post-wash oil routine would help... like switching to a different type? Hopefully someone with more extensive oil-knowledge can chime in with that? I'm pretty useless on what to suggest to ya. hah

Eta-- looks like we cross posted, lol

Yeah, IMMHO that is too much. Maybe try less and a different oil. See what that does.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

That's great that the shampoo is helping!

Yes, it is possible to be that sensitive. I can't use any protien at all and coconut oil has to be minimal to never. It is possible the Henna is making your hair protien sensitive. I'm not famiar with henna, but I've seen stuff, like in the article I listed. I'm on my phone right now or I'd link the protien sensitive thread for you. How about you switch out the coconut oil for some different ones? Maybe avocado for sealing and olive oil for deep treatment, and cut out any protien you have. Do some research on what protien looks like on a label since it can read as something else. Oh! Also look at a shower filter. I think Mercola makes one that helps with hardwater and chlorine (another high porosity hair killer).

It will take some time to see change if it the issue is too much protien, since you have to give your hair time to shed the excess.

Is avacado light? I just need to be sure whatever oil I replace the coconut with, is super light. I tried jojoba oil once and that was -- ok. Its been awhile, I cant remember 100% but if you have other recommendations I will gladly get rid of the coconut oil. Right now I am using that hair oil by VO5 that has a bunch of different oils mixed together, one spritz is enough. So far so good.

Do you know how much those shower head filters cost? Im between homes so I use multiple different showers, so its hard to completely control the water.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Rebeccalaurenxx, I went back and red your original post. The last picture showed quite a difference in hair color. Did you have your hair bleached before and then dyed it back?you said those two side-by-side shots were a six month's difference. Is that correct?

Here are some photos of my hair in natural light out of the light coming through the window. I finally am able to get onto the computer so I grabbed what I could.
My hair kind of changes color in the light but here is me outside and inside, but by the window, it radiates. Looks drier than it actually is.

Light is important. Lol.
https://s6.postimg.org/w8l3s31gx/curl.jpg
A few months before, outside.
https://s6.postimg.org/qhuxectgx/FullSizeRender.jpg

September 2016:
https://s6.postimg.org/ovab6v6sx/IMG_2832.jpg

It looks super light in some photos but it really isnt THAT light.
After my last henna and indigo, I think that weird ombre disappeared, which is great.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Yeah, IMMHO that is too much. Maybe try less and a different oil. See what that does.

Gaaaaah I just went through the ingredients for all the CV shampoo bars I bought.
THEY ARE ALL MADE WITH COCONUT OIL.

Ok -- ill stop using coconut oil completely then. Unless the bars end up not working for me either -- i dont know what else to do.
I bought that shea moisture superfruit deep conditioner, all their deep treatments contain protein,... I dont want to throw it out... Ill try to return it I guess..

Crapola.

[lapushka]

Don't panic! The shampoo bars might still be okay. But too much of a *good thing* can be too much, right? :)

I love sweet almond oil next to my baby oil, even though it's been quite some time since I last used it. I love my baby oil (you just need 1 or 2 drops on classic length). Any oil can be light, it just depends on *how much* you use!

[pili]

OK, still on my phone so bear with me.

Is avacado light? I just need to be sure whatever oil I replace the coconut with, is super light. I tried jojoba oil once and that was -- ok. Its been awhile, I cant remember 100% but if you have other recommendations I will gladly get rid of the coconut oil. Right now I am using that hair oil by VO5 that has a bunch of different oils mixed together, one spritz is enough. So far so good.

Do you know how much those shower head filters cost? Im between homes so I use multiple different showers, so its hard to completely control the water.

Like Lapushka said, YMMV on any oil. Start with just a drop. I have coarse hair, so what works for me may not work for you, especially as I am still dealing with bleach damage. My hair loves oil and sucks it up. My scalp also does not produce any oil. I was going to suggest jojoba to you, since it is the closest to human sebaceous oil, but again see how you do. backing off the coconut oil/protein may make it work differently?

I got a filter from Bed, Bath and Beyond. It worked OK. Marcola ones are supposed to be better. I think they start at $50 and go up from there. Doesn't sound like it would be feasible for you. I would continue the acidic rinses. Those help with the minerals in the water. Somewhere in the forum it said citric acid may be more affective against hard water...(sorry, hard to look threads up right now. Might have been in the shampoo bar thread.)



Gaaaaah I just went through the ingredients for all the CV shampoo bars I bought.
THEY ARE ALL MADE WITH COCONUT OIL.

Ok -- ill stop using coconut oil completely then. Unless the bars end up not working for me either -- i dont know what else to do.
I bought that shea moisture superfruit deep conditioner, all their deep treatments contain protein,... I dont want to throw it out... Ill try to return it I guess..

Crapola.

I also use the CV bars. They do not wreck my hair like straight up coconut oil! Again, I read somewhere in the Shampoo bar thread that there is something in the saponification process that changes it so it is not like putting oil on your head.


Don't panic! The shampoo bars might still be okay. But too much of a *good thing* can be too much, right? :)

I love sweet almond oil next to my baby oil, even though it's been quite some time since I last used it. I love my baby oil (you just need 1 or 2 drops on classic length). Any oil can be light, it just depends on *how much* you use!

Oh, I need to add sweet almond to my list! Thanks Lapushka!

Also, I just got some grape seed oil. I have not had the chance to try it yet. It is supposed to act the most similar to mineral (baby) oil if you are trying to go the all natural route.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Don't panic! The shampoo bars might still be okay. But too much of a *good thing* can be too much, right? :)

I love sweet almond oil next to my baby oil, even though it's been quite some time since I last used it. I love my baby oil (you just need 1 or 2 drops on classic length). Any oil can be light, it just depends on *how much* you use!

I have the teeniest little jar of coconut oil left so it won't be too hard to stop using it. I just never thought the oil could contribute -- though to be honest, when I don't oil regularly, my hair feels softer and "nicer". It's incredibly hard to detangle, that's why I use oil every day. Without oil I can't detangle, even fingers hurt. But I'll make the switch. Sweet almond oil, grapeseed oil, and I think baby oil/mineral oil are mentioned here a lot too?
I think I might go with grape seed though.
Thanks guys.

Slowly figuring out what's working and what isn't. I will try 100s of things first before I chop back to APL or even shorter!

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Thanks guys! I'm glad I can use the CV bars then. I don't usually buy new things too often so I like to make sure what I buy I can actually use --- and won't make the problem worse.

Being broke does not help lol

[pili]

Don't forget olive oil. It is one of the oils that really helps me with my dryness and its easy to get!

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Don't forget olive oil. It is one of the oils that really helps me with my dryness and its easy to get!
I use EVOO in my deep treatments. But I need something light as a leave in. So either almond oil or grapeseed :)

[Bambi]

I have a problematic relationship with coconut oil, sometimes it is a success, others it just leaves my hair dry in a weird way. I have a jar that I'm currently using but only occasionally as it may help my lenght (it is bleached).

As for the CV-bars I tried a couple of them for maybe six months(years ago) or so, remember liking the coffee one best. The negativt part for me was that I never knew how my hair was going to turn out when I washed it. Sometimes it was so bouncy, shiny and flowing and the next time it was just a stringy mess. I live in a hard water area and tried to rinse with both ACV and citric acid, regulating ratio's as well as I could.
Eventually I gave up and returned to more convetional alternatives.

In retroperspective I'm glad that I experimented as much as I did, now I have a grasp of what my hair prefers, even though you can get frustrated at times.

Oils that my hair likes are EVOO, sweet almond, baby oil and I just recently bought walnut oil, my hair drinks it up:). It feels like something in between almond and EVOO:).

Good luck and hang in there (cheesy cat-poster;) ).

[lapushka]

Like Lapushka said, YMMV on any oil. Start with just a drop. I have coarse hair, so what works for me may not work for you, especially as I am still dealing with bleach damage. My hair loves oil and sucks it up. My scalp also does not produce any oil. I was going to suggest jojoba to you, since it is the closest to human sebaceous oil, but again see how you do. backing off the coconut oil/protein may make it work differently?

(...)

Oh, I need to add sweet almond to my list! Thanks Lapushka!

Also, I just got some grape seed oil. I have not had the chance to try it yet. It is supposed to act the most similar to mineral (baby) oil if you are trying to go the all natural route.

You're welcome. And yes, if you start using an oil, start with a drop, or a few drops, or the tiniest puddle in your palm, spread over palms, then smoothed over hair. A puddle might already be too much!

Grape seed oil? I always thought that was a light oil, a bit the opposite of baby oil? Hmm. :hmm: I'll look into it, thanks! :D


I have the teeniest little jar of coconut oil left so it won't be too hard to stop using it. I just never thought the oil could contribute -- though to be honest, when I don't oil regularly, my hair feels softer and "nicer". It's incredibly hard to detangle, that's why I use oil every day. Without oil I can't detangle, even fingers hurt. But I'll make the switch. Sweet almond oil, grapeseed oil, and I think baby oil/mineral oil are mentioned here a lot too?
I think I might go with grape seed though.
Thanks guys.

I'm wavy, just like you, and I only detangle on wash days, and leave my hair alone the rest of the week, until it's wash day again. For me, that works; YMMV, of course. But you do not need to detangle every day. I do finger detangle (not ripping fingers through hair! never do that, just separate the strands with your hands, in half, in half again, like that, that's what I call "finger detangling" and that is how I get sheds out).

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

You're welcome. And yes, if you start using an oil, start with a drop, or a few drops, or the tiniest puddle in your palm, spread over palms, then smoothed over hair. A puddle might already be too much!

Grape seed oil? I always thought that was a light oil, a bit the opposite of baby oil? Hmm. :hmm: I'll look into it, thanks! :D



I'm wavy, just like you, and I only detangle on wash days, and leave my hair alone the rest of the week, until it's wash day again. For me, that works; YMMV, of course. But you do not need to detangle every day. I do finger detangle (not ripping fingers through hair! never do that, just separate the strands with your hands, in half, in half again, like that, that's what I call "finger detangling" and that is how I get sheds out).

If I don't brush and detangle daily, my hair tends to start looking piece-y and just, unclean/unkept so I like to detangle daily. I'm a heavy sleeper that throws themselves around. I think the oil probably contributes to the greasy unkept look -- I just can't get it right. Because I haven't brushed my hair in 2 days and have been sleeping with my hair loose and the tangles are still minimum. The difference is the last few days I've just left my hair dry, no oil at all.

It's day 3 after chealting and my hair still feels nice. I haven't used any oil except for the VO5 hair oil I put in after washing. It feels kind of, dry and frizzy? Like maybe it actually isn't and I'm just over thinking it because my hair is never good enough for me. It doesn't feel "better". But it looks better than when I oil regularly.

I think what's happening is my hair is collecting dust and dirt when I oil it, so the tangles end up being worse. I get a lot of single strand knots!! Like, a lot.

Maybe I should just not use oil at all? Is oil really a need?

[school of fish]

If I don't brush and detangle daily, my hair tends to start looking piece-y and just, unclean/unkept so I like to detangle daily. I'm a heavy sleeper that throws themselves around. I think the oil probably contributes to the greasy unkept look -- I just can't get it right. Because I haven't brushed my hair in 2 days and have been sleeping with my hair loose and the tangles are still minimum. The difference is the last few days I've just left my hair dry, no oil at all.

It's day 3 after chealting and my hair still feels nice. I haven't used any oil except for the VO5 hair oil I put in after washing. It feels kind of, dry and frizzy? Like maybe it actually isn't and I'm just over thinking it because my hair is never good enough for me. It doesn't feel "better". But it looks better than when I oil regularly.

I think what's happening is my hair is collecting dust and dirt when I oil it, so the tangles end up being worse. I get a lot of single strand knots!! Like, a lot.

Maybe I should just not use oil at all? Is oil really a need?

Is oil a need? Only if *your* hair needs it ;) But NOT every head of hair needs it. Mine doesn't!

My hair is worse for oil, not better - any type, in any quantity. Leave-ins of any type make my hair both look and behave badly - and yet I need moisture to keep my hair from breaking, tangling, keeping the fairy knots away, and general aesthetic. My own (short) answer is conditioner, every day, rinsed out completely.

Your answer may be similar, or different... but I certainly can attest to the fact that not all hair needs oil :) YMMV, as always ;)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Is oil a need? Only if *your* hair needs it ;) But NOT every head of hair needs it. Mine doesn't!

My hair is worse for oil, not better - any type, in any quantity. Leave-ins of any type make my hair both look and behave badly - and yet I need moisture to keep my hair from breaking, tangling, keeping the fairy knots away, and general aesthetic. My own (short) answer is conditioner, every day, rinsed out completely.

Your answer may be similar, or different... but I certainly can attest to the fact that not all hair needs oil :) YMMV, as always ;)

I know my hair needs moisture I just have no clue how to get it!
Co-washing made my hair feel gross so conditioning and washing daily is a no.
Oiling makes my hair feel gross, but its ok if I use a little straight after washing on wet hair. Any more and I am a hot mess.
SMT works really well, with every wash, but I get those curds - experimenting, made a couple new batches without aloe so hopefully that helps.
Shea butter and cocoa butter is no, makes my hair stiff and gross.
I cant use traditional leave ins -- they also usually make my hair stiff. I made my own with the cone free conditioner and water in a spritz bottle, have not tried it yet, but I am sure it will make my hair overly moisturized and gross, lol.
ACV works really nice, I like that a lot.
Henna and indigo do not moisturize my hair like it does for some people here -- but i need the color so I continue.
Catnip rinses I have not tried yet but I have the product, just need to seep -- not ready for the time this takes. Henna and indigo are enough of a process for me along with ACV. Taking up so much of my time!

Im trying to think about what else is recommended here for moisture that I have tried...
I dont know what else.

[lapushka]

Have you tried the LOC method yet (link is in my signature). The key there is to layer your products, leave-in, oil/serum, gel/cream and to not use too much of each (!!!) as that is really key!

[Kiiruna]

I too recommend trying LOC. I've used it a while now, and I'm really happy with it.

[sumidha]

SMT works really well, with every wash, but I get those curds - experimenting, made a couple new batches without aloe so hopefully that helps.


You can swap out other humectants for aloe, my hair really loves honey, but glycerin is also an option. :)

[school of fish]

Another thought - rinse-out oil :)

Hoping the SMT sans aloe will solve the curds issue! SMT does sound like an option that's working for you, just maybe a matter of tweaking to get the optimum consistency :)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

Another thought - rinse-out oil :)

Hoping the SMT sans aloe will solve the curds issue! SMT does sound like an option that's working for you, just maybe a matter of tweaking to get the optimum consistency :)

I do ROO with EVOO but I don't see too much of a difference so I end up putting most my oils in my SMT. They seem to work better that way. :)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

You can swap out other humectants for aloe, my hair really loves honey, but glycerin is also an option. :)
Where would one find glycerin?
Honey is just easier to find, always have a tub of it in the house. Plus it's pretty inepensive and easy to find. :)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I too recommend trying LOC. I've used it a while now, and I'm really happy with it.

Hmmmm.


Have you tried the LOC method yet (link is in my signature). The key there is to layer your products, leave-in, oil/serum, gel/cream and to not use too much of each (!!!) as that is really key!

I've looked into the LOC / LCO methods before but they kind of scare me. Lol. Even the teeniest amount of oil can be too heavy for my hair so I've been too afraid to try.

I also don't want to buy anything new for awhile. I spent too much on the CV bars and the new conditioners for my SMT. So I don't know if I own anything currently that would work with the LOC method. Idk. It scares me though. The only conditioner I have that I can use as C have protein in them.
-- Don't know where to start and I'm broke af. Lol.

[-Fern]

Where would one find glycerin?
Honey is just easier to find, always have a tub of it in the house. Plus it's pretty inepensive and easy to find. :)

My local Wal Mart has glycerin in small bottles in the skin care aisle.

[mizukitty]

I love it! The hemline is thicker, looks healthier! I think you should leave it here for a while and see what happens. Lovely waves!

ETA: I use camellia oil as a leave in, it's very light. I use just a drop and it never weighs my hair down. Mine is mostly fine, but medium underneath. So the canopy always looks okay! Avocado is similar to olive, but some find it more softening. I really love it.

I would be careful with grapeseed because 1. it has quite a short shelf life and spoils quite fast if not kept in a dark, cool place and 2. the iodine content is medium/high which means it'll "dry" onto your hair - can't wash it out too easily. If you use a plain ol shampoo it'll be fine, but CO washing or something won't cut it, I don't think. I have this issue with sesame oil - that sucker sticks to my hair like nothing else. It'll smell like sesame for days until I strip it out properly.

Also... How are you in the protein department? Maybe it could be helpful to add strength to those ends prone to bending?

Another ETA: Just went back. Protein's a no go for you. In that case, I would up the moisture with LOC. There are a ton of things out there to hydrate and seal without weighing it down. Moisturizing mists like the ones cantu makes are excellent.

Also just so you know, this IS damage. You're not imagining it. It's a split end - another variety than the typical split or white dot. There are many forms of hair breakage - it can occur at any point on your hair, wherever it's the most compromised.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/marquintalee/SplitEndChart.gif

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I love it! The hemline is thicker, looks healthier! I think you should leave it here for a while and see what happens. Lovely waves!

ETA: I use camellia oil as a leave in, it's very light. I use just a drop and it never weighs my hair down. Mine is mostly fine, but medium underneath. So the canopy always looks okay! Avocado is similar to olive, but some find it more softening. I really love it.

I would be careful with grapeseed because 1. it has quite a short shelf life and spoils quite fast if not kept in a dark, cool place and 2. the iodine content is medium/high which means it'll "dry" onto your hair - can't wash it out too easily. If you use a plain ol shampoo it'll be fine, but CO washing or something won't cut it, I don't think. I have this issue with sesame oil - that sucker sticks to my hair like nothing else. It'll smell like sesame for days until I strip it out properly.

Also... How are you in the protein department? Maybe it could be helpful to add strength to those ends prone to bending?

Another ETA: Just went back. Protein's a no go for you. In that case, I would up the moisture with LOC. There are a ton of things out there to hydrate and seal without weighing it down. Moisturizing mists like the ones cantu makes are excellent.

Also just so you know, this IS damage. You're not imagining it. It's a split end - another variety than the typical split or white dot. There are many forms of hair breakage - it can occur at any point on your hair, wherever it's the most compromised.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/marquintalee/SplitEndChart.gif

Oh hm, I will look for sweet almond or cameilla oil then!

Just a quick update, it has been 4 days now since I washed my hair, bangs are greasy and need to be brushed, I also havent brushed my hair in 4 days now.
My hair feels AMAZING still. Usually by now, I need to wash again because my hair starts to feel stiff and dry the dirtier and oilier it gets. My ends still feel a little dry and tangled but at this point it still feels and looks better than it did before chealating.
https://s6.postimg.org/hsg7wh5ip/IMG_8683.jpg
https://s6.postimg.org/bg12mn2gh/IMG_8685.jpg

[pili]

Yay! See hard water is brutal!