Question about clarifying shampoo

[Mrstran]

A week or so ago as some of you may have read, I had an incident where my hair stuck together. Luckily some heavy oiling did the trick and my hair recovered.

-Big thank you to those who gave me advice here on LHC!

I decided to try an all natural dye yesterday called Naturtint. So before dying I washed with my clairifying shampoo twice.
I put in the dye, waited, washed out the dye, and then put in the shampoo that came with the dye. I carefully ran it through my hair as I normally would.

Then, I felt it. My hair was turning into a matted mess, sticking together again, the nightmare was happening again.

I rinsed and applied the conditioner that came with the dye and my hair smoothed back out and un-stuck.
Wheooooo!


I dont understand why this keeps happening to my hair?
My hubby asked a hairdresser about it and she said that I "flash dried" my hair the last time this happened. Do you think it's the clairifying shampoo? I normally use it once a month. ??? It seems ( and I could be wrong) that the only moisture my hair actually has is from the oils I apply. Maybe the clairifying shampoo is removing too much?

Do any of you know if this sticky matted mess I keep getting is really because my hair has no moisture?
Also, if so, can I get away with not using clairifying shampoo anymore while still doing oil treatments?


Thank you!


Edit: Another Q I forgot to add. Is there anyway to get moisture back into the hair and keep it?

[Obsidian]

It sounds like your hair is really dry and needs moisture. Oil isn't moisture, its a lubricant and it creates a barrier holding moisture (water) in hair when applied to damp hair. Do you normally use conditioner? What about cones? I really think you need a moisture rich coney conditioner. I's suggest trying hello hydration or perfectly undone by herbal essence.

Clarifying shampoo can be a bit drying but since you don't use it often, I don't think its the underlying problem. As far as your issues today, I think you over washed it. You didn't need to clarify twice before coloring and I wouldn't have shampooed after rinsing out the color either. Not familiar with the brand you used but when I use box dye or henna, I rinse then apply conditioner. I wait a day or two before I use shampoo.

I can't tell from your picture, is your hair been lightened? If so, have you tried a protein treatment recently? Maybe you need protein followed up by a deep conditioning.

[lapushka]

Have you bleached your hair before this dye, at all? Might be the bleach in that case that is causing the matting (does it feel gummy at all?) and in this case I'd give your hair some well-needed protein.

[Mrstran]

Have you bleached your hair before this dye, at all? Might be the bleach in that case that is causing the matting (does it feel gummy at all?) and in this case I'd give your hair some well-needed protein.


My hair is gummy in some spots. Whenever I lose a strand, I always examine and some are very elastic. I put the brown color over my damaged bleached hair, I just didn't post a photo of it yet.

I normally do heavy oilings then condition with nexuss, leave it in without rinsing, and then add aphergee 5 minute reconstructor. I wear a cap for a few minutes then rinse it all out. I rarely use shampoo.

This may seem like a lot, but my hair is very dry, and this routine works well for me.


So if a good protein treatment and a moisturizing conditioner will help, I'm going to have to run out and grab both today.
Thank you both for the help!!!

[Mrstran]

It sounds like your hair is really dry and needs moisture. Oil isn't moisture, its a lubricant and it creates a barrier holding moisture (water) in hair when applied to damp hair. Do you normally use conditioner? What about cones? I really think you need a moisture rich coney conditioner. I's suggest trying hello hydration or perfectly undone by herbal essence.

Clarifying shampoo can be a bit drying but since you don't use it often, I don't think its the underlying problem. As far as your issues today, I think you over washed it. You didn't need to clarify twice before coloring and I wouldn't have shampooed after rinsing out the color either. Not familiar with the brand you used but when I use box dye or henna, I rinse then apply conditioner. I wait a day or two before I use shampoo.

I can't tell from your picture, is your hair been lightened? If so, have you tried a protein treatment recently? Maybe you need protein followed up by a deep conditioning.

I'm going to go out and grab some moisturizing conditioner than. I use nexuss and aphergee. Not sure which one I should replace as I love them both. I haven't used protein at all I wasn't sure when or why to use it lol, but I will get some.

[lapushka]

I think it's just about the last your hair can take. The matting I think is "damage" showing itself. I would not use heat on it, or do more chemical services on it (dye, bleach, etc.). I would also not use henna as that might damage it more rather than less - when it has come to this point in time (don't misunderstand me, I think henna can be great).

Good luck!

[Obsidian]

I really like unflavored gelatin for protein. You can buy a big box with a lot of small packages, mix a couple packages with some hot water until its well dissolved then apply to hair. I use about 1/2 cup water per pack.

The mix will be thin and sticky but do your best to get it all over your hair. Cover and leave on for 15 minutes then rinse really, really well. Use the hydrating conditioner after and just for the sake of experimenting, only use it.

The aphogee you've been using is a protein treatment but obviously it isn't enough for you. Its only meant to be used once a week and it would probably work better if you used it on its own after shampooing.

Do you not shampoo due to how it dries your hair? Have you ever tried a sulfate free poo? I always liked the L'Oreal ever line, very gentle but cleans well. It won't replace a clarifying poo but its good for days when you need just a little clean.

[Strands]

I might suggest using more cones. I second Obsidian. I saw a huge improvment when I started using a silicone treatment disguised as an argan oil lol.

you might also try foamifying your shampoo. Completely clean out a pump hand soap bottle, then put in a tablespoon of shampoo to 1/4 cup of water. Swirl to dilute, don't shake. Then you can use pumped foamy shampoo on ROOTS ONLY. Try to baby the HECK out of your hair for a while. Do not take this the wrong way - it is your hair - but if I were you I would stop doing things that are too creative like dying or trying untested rinses on your hair for a while until the texture gets better and the hydration improves. I really hope things get better for you, Your rice water rinse story gave me a nightmare LOL so please take care!!!

[Dark40]

I would suggest trying silicones. Like, this wonderful product called, "Silicone Mix." I only use it twice a week, and it really work my hair wonders!!!

[Zebra Fish]

Naturtint is not all natural dye. It was just mentioned in another thread (link (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=140583&p=3327991#post3327991)). Dunno which shade you used, but as far as I've seen they all have colour developer with hydrogen peroxide in it.

[Hay_jules]

I think the clarifying shampoo only revealed your hairs natural state. I couldn't find the ingredients for the dyes on the naturetint site (never a good sign) but I did find it here.
https://www.truthinaging.com/review/naturtint-hair-dye-reviewed-and-rejected
It is still a permanent hair dye and still has many damaging ingredients that likely have added to your previous damage.
You definitely need to moisturize. If you do a protein treatment start small because overly porous hair (as yours is due to all the lightening) can get overproteinated quite easily.
I have bleached hair too and struggle for moisture. Just keep in mind that the treatments that work for others may not give you the silky results others experience, they can't reverse the damage, they just make it feel better. For me I can feel the moisturizing treatment while it's in but once I rinse it all out it feels dry again.
Just keep on babying your hair like others have said and no more experimenting. Good luck.

[Hay_jules]

Naturtint is not all natural dye. It was just mentioned in another thread (link (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=140583&p=3327991#post3327991)). Dunno which shade you used, but as far as I've seen they all have colour developer with hydrogen peroxide in it.

There's not peroxide, they use a different chemical (from what I can find) to oxidize and lift the cuticle but it still is damaging and has the ability to lighten (as they say themselves on their website).

[Zebra Fish]

There's not peroxide, they use a different chemical (from what I can find) to oxidize and lift the cuticle but it still is damaging and has the ability to lighten (as they say themselves on their website).

I copied the ingredients from iherb (http://hr.iherb.com/Naturtint-Permanent-Hair-Color-1N-Ebony-Black-5-28-fl-oz-150-ml/5839) where under colour developer peroxide is listed. On their web they just say oxidant in the developer, they don't deny it, but don't explicitly say peroxide.

[Mrstran]

I might suggest using more cones. I second Obsidian. I saw a huge improvment when I started using a silicone treatment disguised as an argan oil lol.

you might also try foamifying your shampoo. Completely clean out a pump hand soap bottle, then put in a tablespoon of shampoo to 1/4 cup of water. Swirl to dilute, don't shake. Then you can use pumped foamy shampoo on ROOTS ONLY. Try to baby the HECK out of your hair for a while. Do not take this the wrong way - it is your hair - but if I were you I would stop doing things that are too creative like dying or trying untested rinses on your hair for a while until the texture gets better and the hydration improves. I really hope things get better for you, Your rice water rinse story gave me a nightmare LOL so please take care!!!

Oh yes. I'm done with all that and keeping it simple now lol. I just have my aphogee, shampoo, conditioners, and oils. Lesson learned! I decided only to use shampoo lightly to my roots only if I use essential oils which I don't do very often at all. I did pick up some moisturizing poo and conditioner today so I'm hoping it helps. I will definitely try to dilute and see how it works out. Thanks!

[Mrstran]

I think the clarifying shampoo only revealed your hairs natural state. I couldn't find the ingredients for the dyes on the naturetint site (never a good sign) but I did find it here.
https://www.truthinaging.com/review/naturtint-hair-dye-reviewed-and-rejected
It is still a permanent hair dye and still has many damaging ingredients that likely have added to your previous damage.
You definitely need to moisturize. If you do a protein treatment start small because overly porous hair (as yours is due to all the lightening) can get overproteinated quite easily.
I have bleached hair too and struggle for moisture. Just keep in mind that the treatments that work for others may not give you the silky results others experience, they can't reverse the damage, they just make it feel better. For me I can feel the moisturizing treatment while it's in but once I rinse it all out it feels dry again.
Just keep on babying your hair like others have said and no more experimenting. Good luck.

Mine feels wonderful until I wash it out too. But yes. I have to leave it alone now. Thank you for looking into that. I apperciate your help. I can't wait to cut this off... eventually

[Mrstran]

I would suggest trying silicones. Like, this wonderful product called, "Silicone Mix." I only use it twice a week, and it really work my hair wonders!!!

I have been searching high and low for a good silicone treatment. I'll definitely take a look at this one. Thank you much!

[Mrstran]

I really like unflavored gelatin for protein. You can buy a big box with a lot of small packages, mix a couple packages with some hot water until its well dissolved then apply to hair. I use about 1/2 cup water per pack.

The mix will be thin and sticky but do your best to get it all over your hair. Cover and leave on for 15 minutes then rinse really, really well. Use the hydrating conditioner after and just for the sake of experimenting, only use it.

The aphogee you've been using is a protein treatment but obviously it isn't enough for you. Its only meant to be used once a week and it would probably work better if you used it on its own after shampooing.

Do you not shampoo due to how it dries your hair? Have you ever tried a sulfate free poo? I always liked the L'Oreal ever line, very gentle but cleans well. It won't replace a clarifying poo but its good for days when you need just a little clean.

I use the Aphogee roughly twice a month. More or less.
I was only using a tiny amount of the clairifying shampoo on my roots to remove essential oils only, but not to remove regular oils like EVOO. However, I've been trying to avoid getting oils on my scalp all together because like you said, I do believe my hair is too dry to use shampoo.
After saturating my hair in oil and sleeping on it, I use conditioner instead of shampoo to wash some of the oils out. After my hair dries it actually isn't oily at all! It's crazy. It feels like silk and looks great.

So pretty much, the last two times I had shampoo on my length, my hair stuck together. I'm actually afraid of shampoo now.
I was under the impression that sulfate free was clairifying? Is it just more gentile? Does it have silicones still?

[lapushka]

So pretty much, the last two times I had shampoo on my length, my hair stuck together. I'm actually afraid of shampoo now.
I was under the impression that sulfate free was clairifying? Is it just more gentile? Does it have silicones still?

Depends on the formula. If you go with Shea Moisture sulfate free shampoos, they are silicone-free. It would be handy if you mentioned the specific brands that you use.

[Obsidian]

clarifying shampoos are choked full of sulfates, the harshest one available. Clarifying is removing build up and you need strong cleansers for that. Sulfate free poos are gentler, much less cleansing. some will have cones, you will need to read the ingredients. With your damaged hair, you really needs cones. You really don't need to clarify unless your hair has a lot of build up. Since essential oils are fairly light, they would probably wash out with a milder shampoo or even CO.

You are using nexxus? What formula? Sounds like its too much for you. What kind of poo/condish did you end up buying? Hopefully it will be nicer to your hair.

[Obsidian]

I have been searching high and low for a good silicone treatment. I'll definitely take a look at this one. Thank you much!

This is one I use. Its mostly cones so very little is needed.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/FX-Special-Effects-Moroccan-Moisture-Miracle-Argan-Oil-4-oz/17114147

[Mrstran]

clarifying shampoos are choked full of sulfates, the harshest one available. Clarifying is removing build up and you need strong cleansers for that. Sulfate free poos are gentler, much less cleansing. some will have cones, you will need to read the ingredients. With your damaged hair, you really needs cones. You really don't need to clarify unless your hair has a lot of build up. Since essential oils are fairly light, they would probably wash out with a milder shampoo or even CO.

You are using nexxus? What formula? Sounds like its too much for you. What kind of poo/condish did you end up buying? Hopefully it will be nicer to your hair.

I did end up getting the hello hydration ( Herbal Essence) which I used years ago. I had no idea essential oils wash out so easy, That's great to hear! Anyway, I was using Nexxus restoring conditioner, I think it was just the basic one. I mostly used it because it had a bunch of silicones in it, or so I read in the ingredients list on the back of the bottle.

Thanks for taking the time to explain everything you have. I'm really trying to save this rats nest from being cut off any more. It's one heck of a fight!

Just out of curiosity. In your opinion. Do you think leaving in a bit of moisturizing conditioner and doing an oil treatment over it would hurt?

[Hay_jules]

I copied the ingredients from iherb (http://hr.iherb.com/Naturtint-Permanent-Hair-Color-1N-Ebony-Black-5-28-fl-oz-150-ml/5839) where under colour developer peroxide is listed. On their web they just say oxidant in the developer, they don't deny it, but don't explicitly say peroxide.

Thanks for that :) The company website is pretty cagey, I'm leery of any company that doesn't practice transparency. I had a hard time finding anything.

[Obsidian]

Thanks for taking the time to explain everything you have. I'm really trying to save this rats nest from being cut off any more. It's one heck of a fight!

Just out of curiosity. In your opinion. Do you think leaving in a bit of moisturizing conditioner and doing an oil treatment over it would hurt?

The HH has been a God send for my hair. Its really changed the quality of my hair for the better. It won't hurt to use oil over a bit of left in conditioner, worse thing to happen is it weighs your hair down too much.

[Mrstran]

The HH has been a God send for my hair. Its really changed the quality of my hair for the better. It won't hurt to use oil over a bit of left in conditioner, worse thing to happen is it weighs your hair down too much.

Hey, thank you so much!

[cassidy_2711]

When I oil my hair I don't use a clarifying shampoo. I used nature's gate awapuhi volumizing shampoo. It seems to get all the oil out.