Massive increase in damage without clear cause

[kuroi]

I notice that despite all the effort to protect my hair I keep seeing more and more damage. And although I don't think its gonna stop me from reaching my goals, its very frustrating. It causes so many tangles that are hard to get out and only create more damage.
But the most annoying thing is that I don't know the cause so I don't know how to stop it.
Also the damage is very spread out so micro trimming isn't helping me on this sadly. I'm doing s & d regularly but the damage happens too quickly so I guess I really need to find the cause.
I know they're so many different possible reasons but I hope tlhc can help me figure out what it is.

[kuroi]

Some extra info about my routine :
I use a wooden comb daily and checked it for any sharp bits. I did use a BBB before but I stopped using that because of possible damage.
I sleep with a loose braid and a satin cap.
At day I usually have my hair in a bun with a stick keeping it in place (also checked for sharp bits) or when I have a headache I wear a loose braid and I only use those soft hair ties.
I'm almost a year sulfate free (because of my skin) except an occasional clarifying. I let my hair air dry loose or in a loose braid.
I did experiment with nw/so for the past months but stopped 2 weeks ago and am back to weekly washes with diluded shampoo.
I don't use heat on my hair.
I do dip dye my hair with manic panic and a cheaper brand with the same ingredients. The damage starts higher then the dip dye.

Uhm that's relevant stuff I can think of right now.

[LadyCelestina]

How did you treat your hair before joining LHC? Could you possibly have some previous damage on the ends?

[Nique1202]

Hypothetical situation: say that an individual hair on your head is now 24 inches long and that you grow 6 inches per year, so that the end of that hair is 4 years old. If you used a bristle brush regularly until 2 years ago and it wasn't compatible with your hair, the bottom 12 inches of that hair still may have old damage from the bristle brushing.

Even if you stopped doing something a year or two ago, there is residual damage on the hair that was already grown at that point. Older damage from heat, bristle brushing or any rough brushing, hair tie use, not being worn up and protected, etc. may take a couple of years to start becoming visible even after you stop. I went through this except my source of damage was thread-covered elastics, even though they were no-metal ones they were causing enough friction to seriously damage my hair when I wore them every day, even in different places on the length. The only way to get rid of damage once it's there is to trim it out.

[Apolli]

Agreeing with nique1202 above!

Also, Could it be uv or mechanical damage (from detangling or just from before you started wearing your hair up)?

[Annalouise]

I can only guess, because I don't know, but here are some things to think about... thanks for putting up photos of your hair in your album its so much easier when we can see pictures of the hair. :)
You said you use a protein mask with cones. Since you are using a sulphate free shampoo you might want to clarify first. And then deep condition to see where you're at. I don't see any damage in your photos but I trust it is there if you say its there. :D
You also said you were doing nw/so for a time? Is it possible your hair is tangling because its dry and needs moisture? I don't know anything about manic panic but I suspect its probably not the best thing in the world for your hair.

Also, what shampoo and conditioner are you using? I personally stopped using combs as I feel they are damaging for my hair. They are totally unforgiving. They don't bend, they break hairs. With a comb, you are 100% relying on YOU to stop the comb when you feel resistance because the comb WILL snap the hairs. Whereas, in my experience, a soft bbb doesn't have the strength to snap hairs as the bristles bend when they meet a tangle. That's just my experience.:)

[lapushka]

Hypothetical situation: say that an individual hair on your head is now 24 inches long and that you grow 6 inches per year, so that the end of that hair is 4 years old. If you used a bristle brush regularly until 2 years ago and it wasn't compatible with your hair, the bottom 12 inches of that hair still may have old damage from the bristle brushing.

Even if you stopped doing something a year or two ago, there is residual damage on the hair that was already grown at that point. Older damage from heat, bristle brushing or any rough brushing, hair tie use, not being worn up and protected, etc. may take a couple of years to start becoming visible even after you stop. I went through this except my source of damage was thread-covered elastics, even though they were no-metal ones they were causing enough friction to seriously damage my hair when I wore them every day, even in different places on the length. The only way to get rid of damage once it's there is to trim it out.

Yep if your top 6-12-18 inches (whenever, how many years you stopped your bad ways) is fine, then the bottom = residual damage.

[Nique1202]

With a comb, you are 100% relying on YOU to stop the comb when you feel resistance because the comb WILL snap the hairs. Whereas, in my experience, a soft bbb doesn't have the strength to snap hairs as the bristles bend when they meet a tangle. That's just my experience.:)

A bristle brush should never be used to detangle. Whether you prefer a comb or a detangling brush like a Tangle Teezer or a traditional brush or just your fingers, bristle brushes are not good for detangling. They just push the tangles down to the ends to accumulate and get worked into each other, whereas something like a Tangle Teezer is designed to work the tangles apart, and a comb lets you stop and take tangles apart gently on your own. Also, bristle brushes can cause friction damage (because your hair is in contact with ALL those little bristles ALL the way down) which is why kuroi stopped using one in the first place.

[kuroi]

Thanks for the input.
Before I joined I used evil elastics with metal bits or had my hair loose so that must have damaged it quite a bit. I also used a blowdryer in the winter but just on a warm setting and just for my scalp and not the length so I don't really consider that a problem.
I thought I micro trimmed my old damage out already as I was seeing great improvement in damage since I started doing that. I started micro about 3 years ago I think (not sure). Anyway it got rid of the old hairdye and the splits at the ends.
It would say the damage now is between 8 inches and anything except the last 2 inches, so between 8 and 32.
I guess it might indeed be old damage that didn't show up until now. UV damage will always occur but I'm not in the sun very often so that shouldnt be such a deal.

I clarafied before my first protein mask and once more after the second. I used my third protein mask last month followed by smt and that made my hair feel amazing but didn't help with stopping more damage.
The damage is not very visible probably because of fine hair but I got splits and white dots probably in 5% of my hairs. I guess to see damage in pictures it would have to be coarser or more damaged.

I was also thinking it was maybe lack of moisture so I already started doing some smt's before deciding to quit the nwso trial.
I guess the dye isnt the best thing but its usually considered non damaging as its basicly a highly pigmented conditioner.
My shampoo is a sulfate free tea tree shampoo and I use a moisturizing aloe vera conditioner, both are cone free.
I feel like finger detangling isn't effective enough for me as I shed heavily. I tried it for a while but I seemed like the tangles only got worse everyday as I didn't manage to get all shed hairs out.
Of course trimming will be the only way to get of damage now but the reason I started this tread is because I want to prevent further damage I might unknowingly create.

[missmelaniem]

Is there a specific reason you dont use cones? Theres a protective factor in having them on your hair especially if you moisturize first

[Annalouise]

A bristle brush should never be used to detangle. Whether you prefer a comb or a detangling brush like a Tangle Teezer or a traditional brush or just your fingers, bristle brushes are not good for detangling. They just push the tangles down to the ends to accumulate and get worked into each other, whereas something like a Tangle Teezer is designed to work the tangles apart, and a comb lets you stop and take tangles apart gently on your own. Also, bristle brushes can cause friction damage (because your hair is in contact with ALL those little bristles ALL the way down) which is why kuroi stopped using one in the first place.

I did not say I used a bbb to detangle so you are assuming I just take a bbb and try and rip it down my hair from the top to the bottom. No, that would be silly. What I do is section the hair and then detangle with my fingers. Once it is detangled I start at the bottom with the brush to make sure the ends are free and clear. Then after the ends are good to go, then I go from the top slowly. (Same procedure applies to brushing the hair upsidedown). Perhaps I should say this as not everyone knows how to brush properly.:) I just assume that people at LHC know how to detangle before brushing.

Friction damage? I've never heard of that. Why would the bristles damage the hair?

[lapushka]

Is there a specific reason you dont use cones? Theres a protective factor in having them on your hair especially if you moisturize first

Yes, I agree. Might be worth it to look into silicone-conditioners if you don't use one already.

[Annalouise]

I also wanted to add regarding fine hair, my hair is the "cobweb" hair type. I don't know if you have "cobweb" hair or not? But I find that it is the most difficult to comb through because of its cobweb feature. I've noticed that the long haired folks who prefer combs to detangle usually have straighter and coarser hair. The problem I find with cobweb hair is that it sortof tangles all along the way and because there are so many tiny very fine hairs poking out, its really easy to snap those little hairs that are cobwebbed together.

I can't ever run my fingers through my hair. It's not possible due to the cobwebbing nature. So that is why I stopped using a comb. I just thought I'd clarify that because it might be confusing to understand why a person would not use a comb.:knit:

And also, if you have cobweb hair AND you do not use silicone leave ins or silicone conditioners then you really have to pay attention to the nature of the hair.

[kuroi]

I think cobweb hair is the right description, my hair loves to create tangles.
I'll have a better look for cones that will work with sulfate free shampoo without causing massive buildup. Otherwise I guess I'll need to clarify the length once a month while wearing gloves so I don't piss off my scalp or hands.
Anyways thanks again for the input everyone.

[mizukitty]

Hmmm.. tangles usually mean dry hair, at least for me. I'm also sulfate and cone free and find it's very easy to manage if I keep it moisturized. So lots of deep treatments without cones and a teeny bit of oil on damp hair is usually okay. The brand SheaMoisture is one I can't recommend enough for cone/sulfate free people as every product is formulated without them and they use pretty natural ingredients which is great. Only downside is price, really. But yeah, there are plenty of cone free products with amazing slip that will give you moisture without buildup. The raw shea butter conditioner is an excellent one off the top of my head, but they make so many products targeted for really coarse, dry hair, so finding something to suit your hair will be a breeze!

[ravenreed]

I have wavy hair with individual strands varying from medium to coarse. It loves to tangle! What I find is that I have to do everything possible to reduce tangles to avoid damage. That means brushing more often rather than less. I avoid oils and make sure my hair doesn't get oily. I cleanse every other day, on average. Oil attracts lint, which is one of the largest culprits in tangles for me. I also find that my hair tangles a lot less when I aggressively clarify at least once a month, if not more. I hate using sulfate shampoos because it upsets my scalp and skin, but if I don't my hair suffers terribly. The other thing that greatly reduced damage for me is using catnip rinses. I typically avoid cones because I get buildup rather easily with the hard water where I live, but recently added them back in without too much trouble. HTH!

[proo]

Two suggestions:
Catnip tea as a final rinse or leave in
And small rope braids as a protective style.

[kuroi]

Thanks, I'll look at it :)

[kuroi]

I think I found a product that would work although its advertised for skin and not hair. The only ingredient I see on the list that concerns me is perfume but the rest seems good. I dont have that much knowledge though so would anyone want to look at the ingredients and say what they think? The ingredients in order are :
Aqua, cetereal alcohol, prunus amygdalus dulcis oil, glycerin, caprylic triglyceride, persea gratissima oil, glyceryl stereate citrate, polyglyceryl-3 stereate, simmondsua chinensis seed oil, caprylyl glycol, perfume, carbomer, p-Anisic acid, xanthan gum, sodium hydroxide, limonene, linalool, coumarin, citronellon, citrol, geraniol, prunus amygdalus dulcis fruit extract, sine adipe lac