Conditioner, cones, and confusion.

[HeartofHaleth]

For a while now my hair has felt fragile, tangle-prone and flyaway, especially the lower half of the length. I didn't like how it was feeling, so last weekend I used a coney conditioner for the first time since last spring. My hair seemed a lot stronger, though it wasn't quite as soft, but a tangle formed (admittedly because I wasn't very careful) that was more...knotty than any I've had in a long time. I had to break a couple of hairs in order to get it loose. I love not worrying so much about hairs snapping "just because", and I like that (as long as I'm not dumb like I was when the knot formed) it doesn't retangle as I'm combing it out, but I'm still worried about whether going back to cones is a good idea. Also, silly question, but can I keep using my sulfate-free shampoo with a coney conditioner? Also, I'd love conditioner recommendations if you have them! I just used what happened to be on hand, and I wasn't crazy about it.

[lapushka]

For a while now my hair has felt fragile, tangle-prone and flyaway, especially the lower half of the length. I didn't like how it was feeling, so last weekend I used a coney conditioner for the first time since last spring. My hair seemed a lot stronger, though it wasn't quite as soft, but a tangle formed (admittedly because I wasn't very careful) that was more...knotty than any I've had in a long time. I had to break a couple of hairs in order to get it loose. I love not worrying so much about hairs snapping "just because", and I like that (as long as I'm not dumb like I was when the knot formed) it doesn't retangle as I'm combing it out, but I'm still worried about whether going back to cones is a good idea. Also, silly question, but can I keep using my sulfate-free shampoo with a coney conditioner? Also, I'd love conditioner recommendations if you have them! I just used what happened to be on hand, and I wasn't crazy about it.

Depends on the silicones that are in there; some are water-soluble even. It really depends. I would clarify every once in a while, though, just to be sure.

I love the HE Hello Hydration, it is my HG and it is a fantastic detangler.

[vampyyri]

I wouldn't use sulfate free with a coney conditioner, it would build up way too quickly.

I think you may in the realm of "cones make my hair feel good wet, but it dries to a disaster". I'm in this boat and avoid cones in conditioners like the plague.
I would try implementing a coney serum instead of turning to conditioners with them. I use one myself, and it hasn't caused the same problems that I've gotten from coney conditioners.

[Annalouise]

:popcorn: I'm kindof curious about this too. I haven't used cones or sulphates in years. I am considering using them. But I still haven't decided if the pro's outweigh the cons.

[CarrotTop]

I used sulfate-free shampoos and coney conditioner for about 6 months without any major problems, and without clarifying, either. I've been using sulfates again for the last year or so, but that's primarily because my scalp wasn't happy without sulfates. My personal favorite coney conditioner is the Garnier Fructis triple nutrition.

[meteor]

[...]can I keep using my sulfate-free shampoo with a coney conditioner? [...]

Depends on the silicones (see cone solubility here: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html) and on the specific detergents in your shampoo and the overall formulation of your products and how (and how often) you use them.
Science-y Hair Blog has a good article on different detergents that remove silicones: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2016/05/detergents-which-remove-silicones.html (and other build-up: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2016/07/shampoos-which-remove-product-build-up.html).
I think if you don't feel like you are getting build-up from silicones and that sulfate-free shampoo, then perfect! :thumbsup: But if you do get build-up, you'll just have to clarify periodically or go for lighter (e.g. water-soluble) cones or go for lighter application techniques (e.g. coney serum on very ends only), etc...

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

:popcorn: I'm kindof curious about this too. I haven't used cones or sulphates in years. I am considering using them. But I still haven't decided if the pro's outweigh the cons.

My advice is, don't fix what ain't broke. Lol.

If you hair feels good with out those things, don't switch.

[Annalouise]

My advice is, don't fix what ain't broke. Lol.

If you hair feels good with out those things, don't switch.

Hey that's my saying! :D I hear you. My hair is not broke, that is for sure, but it is hard to grow past 29" for some reason.
I thought maybe cones would help keep the moisture in? I don't know? Probably not. I was thinking about using a leave in conditioner.
And most of them have cones. :shrug: It's a toss up that is for sure. You have some Fine hair too so you'll probably be in the same situation as me when you hit waist (almost waist...not there yet). Fine hair can be tricky.

[sumidha]

I agree with Meteor, it depends. I use sulfate-free shampoo and cone-y conditioner and don't get build up.

[Hay_jules]

I wouldn't use sulfate free with a coney conditioner, it would build up way too quickly.

I think you may in the realm of "cones make my hair feel good wet, but it dries to a disaster". I'm in this boat and avoid cones in conditioners like the plague.
I would try implementing a coney serum instead of turning to conditioners with them. I use one myself, and it hasn't caused the same problems that I've gotten from coney conditioners.

I've been wondering about this. I have quite a few bottles of coney serums and sprays (detangler) and I've been ignoring them. Maybe I'll give one a shot and see how it works.

[Nique1202]

I thought maybe cones would help keep the moisture in? I don't know? Probably not. I was thinking about using a leave in conditioner.

Silicones can help to keep moisture inside the hair shaft, a little bit, but the biggest benefit of silicones to gaining length is that they tend to add slip to the hair. That means that not only do the hairs normally slip out of potential tangles more easily, but also that the silicones help to protect the hair from daily friction from brushing, rubbing on clothes, etc. There's nothing wrong with experimenting with one product at a time to see if you can work some 'cones in. Some people use a rinse-out conditioner, some a leave-in, some people just use a serum on their ends, some use a combination or all of the above. Some people need them after every wash, some people only need them every few washes, especially sulfate-free routines, since sulfate-free doesn't usually wash away all the 'cones so they last longer on the hair. However, some sulfate-free shampoos have surfactants that are just as strong as the traditional sulfates, so it's really up to each person to play with their routine.

Sulfates can be drying because they strip all the protective oils out of the hair, so you may need a heavier conditioner afterward in the length to restore the balance. Silicones can build up and cause hair to feel wrong and behave weirdly (either tangling more, or feeling coated and plasticky, or feeling dry but looking oily, there are a lot of ways silicone buildup manifests), so you don't want to use more than you absolutely need. But, neither is going to hurt the hair on its own, as long as you account for the after-effects.

[Annalouise]

Silicones can help to keep moisture inside the hair shaft, a little bit, but the biggest benefit of silicones to gaining length is that they tend to add slip to the hair. That means that not only do the hairs normally slip out of potential tangles more easily, but also that the silicones help to protect the hair from daily friction from brushing, rubbing on clothes, etc. There's nothing wrong with experimenting with one product at a time to see if you can work some 'cones in. Some people use a rinse-out conditioner, some a leave-in, some people just use a serum on their ends, some use a combination or all of the above. Some people need them after every wash, some people only need them every few washes, especially sulfate-free routines, since sulfate-free doesn't usually wash away all the 'cones so they last longer on the hair. However, some sulfate-free shampoos have surfactants that are just as strong as the traditional sulfates, so it's really up to each person to play with their routine.

Sulfates can be drying because they strip all the protective oils out of the hair, so you may need a heavier conditioner afterward in the length to restore the balance. Silicones can build up and cause hair to feel wrong and behave weirdly (either tangling more, or feeling coated and plasticky, or feeling dry but looking oily, there are a lot of ways silicone buildup manifests), so you don't want to use more than you absolutely need. But, neither is going to hurt the hair on its own, as long as you account for the after-effects.

Interesting, Thank you!:) I can use oils to provide more slip to my hair. I guess the question is which provides more moisture retention: oils or silicone leave in conditioners/serums which usually contain both oils and silicones?:confused:

[gypsycolleen]

Interesting, Thank you!:) I can use oils to provide more slip to my hair. I guess the question is which provides more moisture retention: oils or silicone leave in conditioners/serums which usually contain both oils and silicones?:confused:

Good question! I wonder that myself.

[gracespaghetti]

I don't know too much about ingredients, but I do use a sulfate free shampoo with "coney" conditioners and serum now and my hair loves it all and almost can't get enough (of the cones). My hair is very fine and definitely needs a little extra slip and protection. For me pre-wash coconut oil and a full length shampoo no more than once a week is enough clarifying but there are still a lot of things I haven't tried or compared to. I just go based off whether a product leaves my hair soft, shiny, clean, and manageable, and cones and sulfate free do that for me. :)

[julee]

Maybe try using cones every few weeks or so? I find if I use them every now and then my hair gets the good effects without building up too quickly.

Mainly I like things with amodimethicone or bisaminoproyl dimethicone

[Anya15]

The longer my hair got, the tanglier it started to get, and I had to go back to cones. I clarify once every few weeks so that I dont have issues with buildup. I have to adjust the kind and quantity of coney conditioner depending on the weather, but it's working so far.

Without the cones my hair is just undefined frizz, with the cones I get my natural texture (sometimes ringlets, but that depends on the weather).

When my hair was shorter I would avoid cones because they would make my hair look greasy in a day or two.

[Saproxylic]

My hair likes a heavy combo of humectants+lots of oils+lots of cones. I WCC, first C being cone free botanicals heavy condish (humectants), second being rich condish with coconut oil and cones, then on wet hair I add Aloe vera (more humectants), on top of that straight oil and on top of that heavy cones+oil serum (All used sparingly, I don't exactly have too much hair)

I would say that neither oils, nor cones alone give me the result that mixing them gives!

[janeytilllie]

Every hair is different some get build up quicker than others

I use cones because I have to use medicated shampoo and wash again. This is very drying. No Cone conditioners are not enough slip and don't work with my medicated shampoo. So cones are for me.

I use herbal essences nourish me butter conditioner because that has Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone. This cone doesn't build up as fast as dimethicone.

I use jojoba oil and cone free leave in after washing my hair because too many cones can build up faster.

If your hair is unhappy with your cone free routine try a water soluble cone or Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone conditioner.

I think if a sulfate free shampoo has cocamidopropyl betaine in it and you are using water soluble cones then build up should be minimal.

However all hair reacts differently.

[truepeacenik]

Interesting, Thank you!:) I can use oils to provide more slip to my hair. I guess the question is which provides more moisture retention: oils or silicone leave in conditioners/serums which usually contain both oils and silicones?:confused:

Depends on the oils! Some sink, some seal.
What an LHC answer, eh?

I use a cone spray on rare occasion. I like controlling...ignore that laughter behind, me. It's just my Kiddo...controlling the specific area of application.
I use sulphate free shampoo, but I have a clarifying one for seems-a-little-less-than-monthly use. I'm talking cheap, harsh, gets-the-job-done-in-one-application clarifying.
Since I'm such a control freak...err.. Specific user of cones, I can clarify only the tassel that gets the spray.


Just to send up you down the rabbit hole, moisture/protein balance.
I'm sorry. The time will be worth it. :flower:


HeartOfHaleth this is the perfect thread title. Kudos!

[Annalouise]

Depends on the oils! Some sink, some seal.
What an LHC answer, eh?

I use a cone spray on rare occasion. I like controlling...ignore that laughter behind, me. It's just my Kiddo...controlling the specific area of application.
I use sulphate free shampoo, but I have a clarifying one for seems-a-little-less-than-monthly use. I'm talking cheap, harsh, gets-the-job-done-in-one-application clarifying.
Since I'm such a control freak...err.. Specific user of cones, I can clarify only the tassel that gets the spray.


Just to send up you down the rabbit hole, moisture/protein balance.
I'm sorry. The time will be worth it. :flower:


HeartOfHaleth this is the perfect thread title. Kudos!

Life is hard, why can't growing hair be easy? :doh:
That is really smart to just use the cones where you need them, instead of blanketing the head in them. Especially the new growth which is in good shape. I like that idea. Its a good compromise. Besides, its the ends that get tangled the most. Good logic Spock!
I'm off to investigate the moisture/protein balance you speak of. I'll put a team on it today. ;)
Thanks!:cool:
Control freaks get things done!:bigtongue:

[truepeacenik]

That we do.

Off to look up what happens if a president elect dies before swearing in.

Lol. That answer was "it depends" too!

For those who really want to know:
if the death happens prior to the electoral college vote in December, a new pool of candidates is named, and both the House and Senate vote. If after, the VP-elect becomes president.

[HeartofHaleth]

HeartOfHaleth this is the perfect thread title. Kudos!

Thanks! Alliteration is always appropriate! ;)