White dots/splits vs. growth

[Stepo_NiNha]

Hi,

Ok guys, I recently noticed that I have some white dots and split ends and I' planning to do a small trim in the beginning of January (I'm in the 6 months without trims challenge). I know there are some threads regarding white dots and split ends but my question is: can you still grow hair with them? If so, did you find you had a good length retention? Share your experience :) I know there are many tips such as wearing your hair up,oiling, conditioning but that's more to prevent white dots and split ends; and I already have them and I don't want to trim them so soon. I have been s&ding recently, too. I simply would like to know more about the experience from those who have grown hair with split ends and white dots, is there anyone?


Note: I have had in the past a bad experience with white dots and splits, i.e growth stalls and hair getting shorter due to breakage, which frightens me as hell shudder:. My hair was growing 1,7 cm/month (0.67 inch) as usual but the growth was not visible. By the time, I used to use a lot of heat so it might be the reason and probably the breakage was more severe. Then I decided to do small trims of 0.5 inch every 3 months and I had relatively good growth but not as much as I wanted, that's why I decided to stay away from trims and microtrims for a longer period now.

Now I don't use heat of any kind and braid my hair a lot (at home I do a LWB); this happens for more than 1 year.


:flower:

[lapushka]

I've told this a few times already. Those that have already read this from me are going to be sick of me repeating myself. ;)

I had a perm at shoulder a few years ago. And I had heat damage and perm damage, so half of my hair was riddled with white dots. I was not about to cut to pixie, so I grew all the way to hip with those dots in my hair! All the way. Yes, some broke off, but not the majority. At hip, my mom did a major S&D on me, and I lost half of my hair and quite a bit of length as most of those dots where high up the strands. I had to have it cut back to BSL then, but it was far better than a pixie. :)

I would S&D splits off (as they can travel up the strand), but white dots... not so much!

[Cg]

I S&D splits. I also snip off white dots just to avoid having hairs snap there and potentially split (I have no evidence they necessarily would). This extra caution has not affected the hemline.

[meteor]

You can definitely keep growing with white dots, they'll just have a higher probability of breaking off, because that's where the weak spots are. One of the ways of identifying a "white dot" vs. just a small speck or dust particle is to bend the hair there, and if it takes this shape > instead of this shape ) , you know it's a "white dot" and it's much easier to break the hair in that particular spot.

You mentioned lots of braiding... just in case, if you are going for lots of accent braids and just very manipulation-intensive braids, that could add to breakage problem. I'd go for simple, low-manipulation braids if the hair is fragile and tie them off with silky ribbons woven into the last few intersections of the braids.

I'd be careful and try to contain length during sleep (maybe wrap it in a silky scarf) and also be very careful with all handling: for example, try skipping brushes in favor of finger-combing and/or seamless WT combs only.
I'd also try scalp only washes: they really save the length from extra washing & drying and all that wet manipulation.

[lapushka]

You can definitely keep growing with white dots, they'll just have a higher probability of breaking off, because that's where the weak spots are. One of the ways of identifying a "white dot" vs. just a small speck or dust particle is to bend the hair there, and if it takes this shape > instead of this shape ) , you know it's a "white dot" and it's much easier to break the hair in that particular spot.

Yep, that > makes them easy to find, because when you "drape" a strand of hair over your finger and let the strand "roll" over it, they stick out by bending in a sharp angle; that's how you find them!

[Llama]

It is crazy to me that there are people that can grow with white dots. For me, the strands that have white dots are super weak and if I brush my hair I get a bunch of tiny little broken hairs falling onto my lap.
Mine just do not seem to hang in there.
Maybe it depends on how fragile your hair is?
I havent had very many white dots lately but that has been my experience with them.

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

Hi;
From my experience hair will still grow even if split. But can get stressful for your scalp and you when detangling. Try using a cream on your ends for slip or a bit of castor oil and then bun your hair. When you open it out it should be softer to the touch and less tangly.

[lapushka]

It is crazy to me that there are people that can grow with white dots. For me, the strands that have white dots are super weak and if I brush my hair I get a bunch of tiny little broken hairs falling onto my lap.
Mine just do not seem to hang in there.
Maybe it depends on how fragile your hair is?
I havent had very many white dots lately but that has been my experience with them.

Do you by chance use a BBB? Because that I couldn't use or pieces broke off much faster. But I only brush once a week (TT), so that might have contributed to them hanging around on me for so long.

[school of fish]

I can only speak to my own experience, but here's my relationship history with the white dots ;)

When I started actively 'rehabbing' my hair 3 or so years ago, I had thousands of white dots where hairs had broken off. I had allowed my hair to get into a very dried-out, fragile state, and individual strands were brittle and broke easily. My hair in that state was too weakened to withstand basic maintenance without breakage (washing, detangling and such), so I was losing length and hem thickness slowly but surely - the white dots were on the tips of all those broken strands.

Once I started feeding my hair more regular doses of moisture (in my case via proper daily conditioning and smts), the strands became more resilient and broke less. I still had all those broken off ends within the length (they weren't in a particular section, they were ALL THROUGHOUT, from shoulder to hip), but my hair as a whole with the support of the much-needed moisture could hold its own against further breakage, so when the breakage cycle stopped, so did the appearance of any new white dots.

Ever since then, as more healthy hair has grown and gained ground, and as damage has been microtrimmed off every month, the white dots have become a non-issue. They're still there since I haven't entirely grown out the damaged length, but I'm not losing ground to breakage at all any more. Some turn into splits and those get snipped off through s&d, and others just exist quietly and don't cause problems ;) Certainly I don't have damage traveling up the length - I have the opposite: health traveling down the length ;)

So for me it was a matter of learning what my hair wanted. Now I can grow in spite of those older damaged strands with the white dots, no problem. Since I'm not incurring new damage, the healthy hair is slowly but surely overtaking the damaged hair.

Hope that helps :)

[Llama]

Do you by chance use a BBB? Because that I couldn't use or pieces broke off much faster. But I only brush once a week (TT), so that might have contributed to them hanging around on me for so long.

Nope, no BBB. But it makes sense that they would probably hang on longer the less you brush. I can't go a day without brushing or else I get severe tangles. You are lucky to only have to brush once a week!

I just feel like splits and breakage were the main reasons my hair just would not grow for so many years. And to hear people on here saying you can still grow long hair with tons of breakage (white dots) and splits...it just does not make sense.

[lapushka]

Nope, no BBB. But it makes sense that they would probably hang on longer the less you brush. I can't go a day without brushing or else I get severe tangles. You are lucky to only have to brush once a week!

I finger detangle the rest of the week only to preserve my wave pattern. It gets a little knotty at the end of the week, but that's partly due to the length and partly due to the products I used to style too.


I just feel like splits and breakage were the main reasons my hair just would not grow for so many years. And to hear people on here saying you can still grow long hair with tons of breakage (white dots) and splits...it just does not make sense.

It's a YMMV thing, I guess, just like with a lot of things. :flower:

[Stepo_NiNha]

Thank you guys for all the help!

From your experience (and also mine) I guess that the type of damage that can make hair stop growing is severe breakage -especially from heat which is the worst enemy my hair met. Shedding can also stop lenght retention I think, but that's another topic XD.
I no longer have that type of severe breakage (thank God and LHC) just some white dots and splits from natural breakage so I'll leave them be.

School of Fish, I really have the same good thing! Healthy hair travelling downwards... which in a way makes me happy :)

LLama did you have breakage from heat, perms, curling or just natural breakage from wear and tear?

[school of fish]

Thank you guys for all the help!

From your experience (and also mine) I guess that the type of damage that can make hair stop growing is severe breakage -especially from heat which is the worst enemy my hair met. Shedding can also stop lenght retention I think, but that's another topic XD.
I no longer have that type of severe breakage (thank God and LHC) just some white dots and splits from natural breakage so I'll leave them be.

School of Fish, I really have the same good thing! Healthy hair travelling downwards... which in a way makes me happy :)


That is good news! :D

The thing about this kind of growout is that the improvement is so incremental it can be hard to see. As part of my 'rehab' I've ended up cutting in an undercut layer where some of the worst of the damage was (it was my concession to a damage chop - was able to save my length by sacrificing the worst section that kept eroding away). I originally cut it in at about CB and it's now MBL after about 1-1/2 years of growth. Being able to track that definable layer as it grows down in a healthy state has been my sanity in what otherwise would have felt like an interminable wait :P

For what it's worth, as I've infused more moisture into my routine, the white dots that I do have have become less visible :D They're still there, they just don't stand out the same way as they used to. Because I have that undercut layer I can see where the damaged section and the healthy section meet, and in the damaged section the appearance of the white dots has improved significantly ;)

[blackroseblod]

My hair is very prone to breakage no matter what I have tried so far. So typically I cut the white dots off if I see them. Also if any of you ladies have any solutions to prevent breakage I am more than thankful for the advice! :D

[Flipgirl24]

Your hair will still grow but the splits will creep up the length of your hair thereby requiring more length to be trimmed off. Better to trim them off now. I hate those white dots!

[lapushka]

My hair is very prone to breakage no matter what I have tried so far. So typically I cut the white dots off if I see them. Also if any of you ladies have any solutions to prevent breakage I am more than thankful for the advice! :D

A good moisturizing routine is key. And also, no heat (styling tools). A blowdryer is still OK if used on cool to warm (if you can hold your hand in the airstream for a long time without it burning, it's fine for your hair as well).

[spidermom]

I managed to grow out to classic length by trying to ignore all the split ends I had, but by the time I reached my goal, my ends were in such bad shape that I needed to cut 7 inches when I finally decided I couldn't stand it any more. I've pretty much figured out that I can't get my hair much longer than about hip length without having so many splits and other signs of damage that I don't think my hair is pretty anymore.

[Stepo_NiNha]

A good moisturizing routine is key. And also, no heat (styling tools). A blowdryer is still OK if used on cool to warm (if you can hold your hand in the airstream for a long time without it burning, it's fine for your hair as well).

Yep, I included the blow drier in my routine in a warm setting (termo protect) 2 or 3 months ago and it doesn't hurt my skin so I feel safe about using it on my hair. Flat irons and other extremely hot tools creat a lot of white dots and splits and make my hair break in the very next day XD I can't use them not even once a year.

[Stepo_NiNha]

That is good news! :D

The thing about this kind of growout is that the improvement is so incremental it can be hard to see. As part of my 'rehab' I've ended up cutting in an undercut layer where some of the worst of the damage was (it was my concession to a damage chop - was able to save my length by sacrificing the worst section that kept eroding away). I originally cut it in at about CB and it's now MBL after about 1-1/2 years of growth. Being able to track that definable layer as it grows down in a healthy state has been my sanity in what otherwise would have felt like an interminable wait :P

For what it's worth, as I've infused more moisture into my routine, the white dots that I do have have become less visible :D They're still there, they just don't stand out the same way as they used to. Because I have that undercut layer I can see where the damaged section and the healthy section meet, and in the damaged section the appearance of the white dots has improved significantly ;)

Yep good news! And I really love your hair, I can't imagine white dots in that mane wow!

[blackroseblod]

Thank you, the thing is I don't use heat nor color in my hair. What would be best for a moisturizing routine? My scalp is very sensitive to a lot of oils it cause my hair to fall out more then it does naturally.

[Stepo_NiNha]

I managed to grow out to classic length by trying to ignore all the split ends I had, but by the time I reached my goal, my ends were in such bad shape that I needed to cut 7 inches when I finally decided I couldn't stand it any more. I've pretty much figured out that I can't get my hair much longer than about hip length without having so many splits and other signs of damage that I don't think my hair is pretty anymore.

This is why I chose hip length as my goal instead of BCL and TBL. BCL/TBL/butt length was my initial goal but I don't think my hair will be in a good condition at that length. Maybe it would be with total good care but I suspect I have a short terminal because I also have some natural taper besides the white dots. I will start microtrimming every month in 2017 to thicken my hemline and who knows the ends will get thick(er) and I can continue my journey to TBL :) If I really have a short terminal I will maintain at hip, no choice!

[lapushka]

Thank you, the thing is I don't use heat nor color in my hair. What would be best for a moisturizing routine? My scalp is very sensitive to a lot of oils it cause my hair to fall out more then it does naturally.

A good heavy conditioner (silicones are nice to use in that regard), and try and look into the LOC method (link is in my signature). It would be nice though if we had a little more info on your routine. :flower:

[spidermom]

There's always Snowy's Moisture Treatment (SMT). It's 1 part your favorite conditioner, 1/2 part honey, and 1/2 part aloe vera gel (the clear kind sold for skin care, not the green kind sold for sunburn relief). I like to whip this up with a whisk in a bowl sitting in hot water. Maybe I'll try my electric mixer next time. Anyway, apply it to length after washing, cover with a shower cap or plastic bag, then top with a warm hat or use a hair dryer (I have a bonnet dryer) to keep your head warm. Heat aids absorption. After at least half an hour, rinse this out.

If it doesn't seem to rinse out well, next time apply before washing.

[Llama]

LLama did you have breakage from heat, perms, curling or just natural breakage from wear and tear?

I used to bleach my hair and would also heat style every single day with a flat iron or curling iron. Then I came to LHC and stopped all that but I still had to cut a lot of damage out. I couldn't just leave the white dots because for me they were stunting growth. But I also had a lot of them and they were caused by abusing my hair.

I'm sure yours isn't as bad but not everyone can take the advice of just leaving damage in their hair like that and then see the results they want. Cutting out damage is so important in my experience.

:)

[Stepo_NiNha]

I used to bleach my hair and would also heat style every single day with a flat iron or curling iron. Then I came to LHC and stopped all that but I still had to cut a lot of damage out. I couldn't just leave the white dots because for me they were stunting growth. But I also had a lot of them and they were caused by abusing my hair.

I'm sure yours isn't as bad but not everyone can take the advice of just leaving damage in their hair like that and then see the results they want. Cutting out damage is so important in my experience.

:)

Yeah and I understand! I have also some old damage from heat and ammonia straightening (same method as perms) at the ends. By the time I used to do that my ends were at shoulder length, at their youngest part of life, in their strong phase. I believe biggest part of my hair is virgin and the most affected hair was already trimmed. And your is amazing! Good you left bleach and hot tools behind, now you have long hair at its best ;)

[meteor]

My hair is very prone to breakage no matter what I have tried so far. So typically I cut the white dots off if I see them. Also if any of you ladies have any solutions to prevent breakage I am more than thankful for the advice! :D

You already got some great advice here. :D I just wanted to add another thing to be very wary of: brushes and fine tooth combs and generally mechanical stresses during detangling and styling. The friction and abrasion over the long run erode the outside cuticle, adding to split end formation.

Personally, I only had split ends when I frequently and mindlessly pushed a dense brush through my hair. Ditching the brush and switching to seamless WT comb (and only gentle detangling when needed) was a game changer for me and one of the best thing I did for my hair.

If you look at studies on split end formation or handling damage, you'll see what researchers often do to even create realistic split ends and other forms of damage on natural hair in the first place: they sometimes put tresses through an apparatus meant to simulate brushing: e.g. http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2007/cc058n04/p00451-p00476.pdf, see pp. 452-453, 456...

Hair breakage during combing. IV. Brushing and combing hair: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18305876:
"During combing of hair, longer fiber breaks (>2.5 cm) occur principally by impact loading of looped crossover hairs, while short segment breaks (<2.5 cm) occur primarily by end wrapping. Brushing provides breakage similarly but with a higher ratio of long-to-short segment breaks [...] bleaching hair, a longer comb stroke, increasing fiber curvature, wet combing versus dry combing, and brushing versus combing all provide for an increase in long segment breaks and this ratio, with the largest effect produced by brushing".

I think there is a pretty clear link between excessive brushing and increased split end formation, IMHO, so I'd definitely examine all the tools for snags (e.g. running thin nylon stockings on seams) and make sure they aren't too dense and are used with caution, never forcing through tangles.


As for products, personally, I don't think they matter as much as general handling and avoiding all damage (avoiding thermal/chemical processing, keeping hair contained in low manipulation styles, sleeping on silky smooth materials, etc etc...). But generally speaking, silicones and oils help quite a bit with elasticity and reducing combing force, which should ultimately help with reducing split end formation. (More on some oils and combability and split ends: http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2009/cc060n02/p00273-p00280.pdf, quick summary here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136845&p=3196584&viewfull=1#post3196584))

[Llama]

Yeah and I understand! I have also some old damage from heat and ammonia straightening (same method as perms) at the ends. By the time I used to do that my ends were at shoulder length, at their youngest part of life, in their strong phase. I believe biggest part of my hair is virgin and the most affected hair was already trimmed. And your is amazing! Good you left bleach and hot tools behind, now you have long hair at its best ;)


Thank you! I love your dark, wavy hair. I still have a little bit of old bleach damage to cut out (maybe an inch or 2) but mine is mostly virgin, too.
I just S&D the white dots/splits at this point and get an inch trimmed once a year. Seems to be working out okay since there isn't much damage left.

Also, I just noticed your signature says you are trying for hip by Christmas this year- same here! At least that was my goal. I am thinking it may not happen by Christmas for me. Lol. Good luck!

[Stepo_NiNha]

Thank you! I love your dark, wavy hair. I still have a little bit of old bleach damage to cut out (maybe an inch or 2) but mine is mostly virgin, too.
I just S&D the white dots/splits at this point and get an inch trimmed once a year. Seems to be working out okay since there isn't much damage left.

Also, I just noticed your signature says you are trying for hip by Christmas this year- same here! At least that was my goal. I am thinking it may not happen by Christmas for me. Lol. Good luck!

Thank you! Im already shy of hip with very see through ends so i dont oficially call it hip. I still have one inch to feel im a solid hip. I think in middle of December Ill be there and will keep at hip in 2017 with regular trims. Good luck too! :)