Painful scalp?

[Entangled]

I've read old threads mentioning that there can be a correlation between sebum-y hair and scalp pain. If I don't wash my hair every other day, it hurts. It's sensitive to the touch, and it takes a while to calm down after washing it. By the time it gets to this point, my scalp hair looks like I slicked it back with product and is clumpy.

I used to have dandruff, but I've been using a coal-tar shampoo and the dandruff has gone, but the scalp pain remains. My scalp also hurts if it is wet too long, especially if it was mildly damp when I put it up and I get caught in any sort of moist weather. If it's completely wet when I go to sleep, it will be itchy in the morning.

I've tried stretching washes, but have never had success. I gave up trying, because while I can deal with the greasy hair look, I can't deal with the pain, and the shedding says I should stop. CO washing doesn't lead to extra shedding, but doesn't give me clean-looking second day hair, and dandruff is still there.

So, water irritates my scalp if left on too long. (itchy, then scratching leads to irritation)
Sebum irritates my scalp (much more painful, but not itchy, plus lots more hair fall)
I have dandruff if I wash with CO, sulfates, or sulfate free shampoo, but none with coal tar shampoo.


What do you guys think I'm looking at? I know the standard response would be "see a dermatologist," but that will have to wait, and the last time I saw one for other problems, she seemed to shove products at me rather than diagnose what was happening and seemed more interested in giving me acne products because I had maybe two pimples (my facial skin is usually okay, which is a relief because my skin elsewhere has issues. ) I never did find out what was wrong the first time, and didn't find a product that helped.

What could it be? Anyone have a similar thing? Any tips to soothe it?

[Tosca]

Is it perhaps seborrhoeic dermatits?

[Entangled]

Is it perhaps seborrhoeic dermatits?

I haven't ruled out the possibility, but how would I know? And why is it persistent despite always using harsh shampoos?

[calmyogi]

If you don't have any open sores and the dandruff has subsided at all it sounds to me like maybe a ultra sensitive scalp, of possibly a neurological thing?

[calmyogi]

Or possibly your scalp is allergic to it's own oils? Is that possible? I suppose a lot of things are without seeming logical.

[Andthetalltrees]

I don't have any answers. But it happens to me too, Sometimes I'm able to stretch my washes with no problem though. Other times I have to wash it nearly daily to keep from acting up or getting painful sores/pimples around my hairline(Ick :rolleyes: ) I seem to have a really sensitive scalp and it's annoying

[calmyogi]

I believe you can be allergic to your bodies own secretions like sweat or your oils. Just a thought because it seems like you have tried many other things with little help.

[Entangled]

I believe you can be allergic to your bodies own secretions like sweat or your oils. Just a thought because it seems like you have tried many other things with little help.
It wouldn't surprise me too much--clearly, something about my skin is causing it to react. I'm looking into seborrheic dermatitis, as it seems a likely candidate the more I read about it. I do want to know why my scalp has been this CONSISTENTLY angry every time I don't wash, and has responded to my shampoo but still hurts--from what I've read, people don't seem to have flareups constantly. My scalp's reaction to not being washed is like clockwork, no matter what I've been using in it.

[calmyogi]

It wouldn't surprise me too much--clearly, something about my skin is causing it to react. I'm looking into seborrheic dermatitis, as it seems a likely candidate the more I read about it. I do want to know why my scalp has been this CONSISTENTLY angry every time I don't wash, and has responded to my shampoo but still hurts--from what I've read, people don't seem to have flareups constantly. My scalp's reaction to not being washed is like clockwork, no matter what I've been using in it.

Maybe looking into it a little further. I tried to do a quick Google search and not much came up. A way to test it and see if it is some kind of allergy would be to take a antihistamine and let your hair produce some sebum. If the itch subsides while you have the medication in your system it might be a good indicator that that could be the issue.

[Entangled]

Maybe looking into it a little further. I tried to do a quick Google search and not much came up. A way to test it and see if it is some kind of allergy would be to take a antihistamine and let your hair produce some sebum. If the itch subsides while you have the medication in your system it might be a good indicator that that could be the issue.
That could be a way to find out, but my scalp only itches with water. When it gets too sebum-y, it burns and feels really tender.

[animetor7]

You can't really be allergic to yourself as it were. If your own tissues activate an immune response, that is an autoimmune disorder and you should consult your physician. It would also be highly unlikely for it to present as pain or itchiness. It's much more likely that you have something like SD. If you can't see your dermatologist yet, I'd suggest getting some shampoo specifically designed for SD. As it is a fungal infection, a regular, if harsh, shampoo won't do anything to stop the infection. You need an anti-fungal to do that. I believe Nizoral anti-dandruff shampoo or head and shoulders clinical strength are generally recommended to help combat the infection. I hope this helps!!

[CindyOfTheOaks]

I'm so sorry you are going through this - has to be really frustrating !

[Entangled]

I'm so sorry you are going through this - has to be really frustrating !
Thank you. It is!

You can't really be allergic to yourself as it were. If your own tissues activate an immune response, that is an autoimmune disorder and you should consult your physician. It would also be highly unlikely for it to present as pain or itchiness. It's much more likely that you have something like SD. If you can't see your dermatologist yet, I'd suggest getting some shampoo specifically designed for SD. As it is a fungal infection, a regular, if harsh, shampoo won't do anything to stop the infection. You need an anti-fungal to do that. I believe Nizoral anti-dandruff shampoo or head and shoulders clinical strength are generally recommended to help combat the infection. I hope this helps!!
I will look into it. The shampoo I'm using (Nuetrogena T/Gel) specifically mentions seborrheic dermatitis, but I might need to look at something else. I also have Nuetrogena T/Sal. Its active ingredient is salicylic acid, so I might look into that to see if that helps.

Update: I thought I was fine on dandruff because I haven't been seeing flakes, but I took a look at my scalp and sure enough, it's still peeling. Ugh. I tried a Head and Shoulders shampoo once, but I almost immediately stopped because I noticed an increase in flakes. I can do more research before I pick something up in the future.

I heard Nizoral mentioned. I might look into that as well, if the other shampoo I have doesn't help.
Ugh. I'm sick of this.

[lora410]

Could it be something internally like a vitamin you've been taking? or a food that is chemically changing the sebum? or it could simply be your water. Maybe water company changed something try using bottled. Maybe its the shampoo you could try a diff brand of dandruff type. Your scalp could becoming sensitive to it and the irritation just happens on wash days. last time I had scalp burning and tenderness it was the shampoo bar I was using and didnt put 2 and 2 together right away it also took time for my scalp to start burning with irritation and then it took a MONTH to clear up. I had emailed chargin valley and ask if a shampoo bar that was a yr or so old could go bad but they never responded,eventhough I had just spent $150 with them :-/ so, a few things you ciuld try

[lora410]

Thank you. It is!

I will look into it. The shampoo I'm using (Nuetrogena T/Gel) specifically mentions seborrheic dermatitis, but I might need to look at something else. I also have Nuetrogena T/Sal. Its active ingredient is salicylic acid, so I might look into that to see if that helps.

Update: I thought I was fine on dandruff because I haven't been seeing flakes, but I took a look at my scalp and sure enough, it's still peeling. Ugh. I tried a Head and Shoulders shampoo once, but I almost immediately stopped because I noticed an increase in flakes. I can do more research before I pick something up in the future.

I heard Nizoral mentioned. I might look into that as well, if the other shampoo I have doesn't help.
Ugh. I'm sick of this.


Sounds like the salicylic acid. I have Neutrogena face pads and my face burns after and peels. bet that is the issue. try a coal tar shampoo one that doesn't have salicylic acid. That sounds like a knock off tar coal. Check ethnic area at walmart, they have tons of stuff including sulfate free etc. And keep in mind it will take time to heal

[Obsidian]

T gel never did a thing for my SD, just dried my hair out something terrible.
I much prefer a selenium sulfide 2.5 shampoo but it's not OTC in the US, it is in Canada though.
Tried nizoral once, seemed to work well but it initially made the itching worse so I don't use it anymore.

Using a good sulfate shampoo is the main thing to keep it under control, dirty scalp is a sure fire way to bring on a flare. I can't stretch washes more then three days top and that's only if I'm not oily.
Dampness is bad too, I want my scalp dry as soon as possible.

[Silverbrumby]

Id also go to your local health food store and ask them for a good poo for scalp health. I cannot stretch any washes without losing hair and getting a painful scalp. I'd second a good sulfate poo.



T gel never did a thing for my SD, just dried my hair out something terrible.
I much prefer a selenium sulfide 2.5 shampoo but it's not OTC in the US, it is in Canada though.
Tried nizoral once, seemed to work well but it initially made the itching worse so I don't use it anymore.

Using a good sulfate shampoo is the main thing to keep it under control, dirty scalp is a sure fire way to bring on a flare. I can't stretch washes more then three days top and that's only if I'm not oily.
Dampness is bad too, I want my scalp dry as soon as possible.

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

Hi I have not yet completed reading this thread and have had a busy weekend therefore I am only replying now. Please accept my apologies if this has been repeated.

I have a sensitive scalp. If I skip the scheduled day for wash my scalp becomes stressed. I get terrible headaches and a sore scalp. Which only subsides after a wash. I have found applying oils on my scalp before a wash very soothing. I use oils with anti-inflammatory and healing properties. However I do not use shampoo except once every one and a half months. I noticed that shampoo gives me flakes and I do rinse thoroughly. A water wash works for my scalp.

But this is just how my scalp functions. You know your scalp best and your mileage may vary. Also maybe you could try blow drying your scalp on cool as soon as it has been washed.
I hope this helps.

[lapushka]

I believe I responded in the SD support thread as you posted in 2 locations. :)

[missrandie]

I experienced this last night. For me, my scalp seems to produce different sebum depending on how I wash and how I treat it. For instance, S&C gives me "wash every third or fourth day" hair, but waxy sebum. The waxy stuff is what causes pain.

Alternative methods like CO and such give me oily sebum that doesn't look very nice after day two, but that sebum won't be waxy, so it doesn't hurt.

The reason my scalp hurt last night is that I stretched out a wash cycle on oily sebum using dry shampoo, which removed the oil and left the wax.

Maybe you make a little thicker of sebum like me?

ETA: as for the wet hair and itchy scalp, I'm not sure. There's others who experience the same. Mine behaves if I put it up damp, and my scalp dries fine. But that's just me.

[Entangled]

Sounds like the salicylic acid. I have Neutrogena face pads and my face burns after and peels. bet that is the issue. try a coal tar shampoo one that doesn't have salicylic acid. That sounds like a knock off tar coal. Check ethnic area at walmart, they have tons of stuff including sulfate free etc. And keep in mind it will take time to heal
I was actually using a coal tar shampoo. I have a salicylic acid shampoo, but haven't been using it.


T gel never did a thing for my SD, just dried my hair out something terrible.
I much prefer a selenium sulfide 2.5 shampoo but it's not OTC in the US, it is in Canada though.
Tried nizoral once, seemed to work well but it initially made the itching worse so I don't use it anymore.

Using a good sulfate shampoo is the main thing to keep it under control, dirty scalp is a sure fire way to bring on a flare. I can't stretch washes more then three days top and that's only if I'm not oily.
Dampness is bad too, I want my scalp dry as soon as possible.
Yes, the only way to keep this from happening is to never miss a wash day. I'll have to see how this goes. I have honestly never noticed a difference in my shampoos in terms of dryness.


Id also go to your local health food store and ask them for a good poo for scalp health. I cannot stretch any washes without losing hair and getting a painful scalp. I'd second a good sulfate poo.
I definitely have given up on stretching washes--there's no benefit, and my hair doesn't seem to be "overreacting" and producing more oil, it just gets oily no matter what and sebum=pain. However, it hasn't really made a difference what I wash with as long as I do wash with something (my scalp is the same be it CO, sulfate free, or sulfate.)


Hi I have not yet completed reading this thread and have had a busy weekend therefore I am only replying now. Please accept my apologies if this has been repeated.

I have a sensitive scalp. If I skip the scheduled day for wash my scalp becomes stressed. I get terrible headaches and a sore scalp. Which only subsides after a wash. I have found applying oils on my scalp before a wash very soothing. I use oils with anti-inflammatory and healing properties. However I do not use shampoo except once every one and a half months. I noticed that shampoo gives me flakes and I do rinse thoroughly. A water wash works for my scalp.

But this is just how my scalp functions. You know your scalp best and your mileage may vary. Also maybe you could try blow drying your scalp on cool as soon as it has been washed.
I hope this helps.
The irritation sounds familiar, though my scalp gets quite greasy and I don't think WO would cut it for me, putting aside scalp pain. However, I would KILL to only need to wash once a month. Just curious, how often do you WO wash? I am starting to blow-dry my roots, if only so I can put it up without scalp irritation. I have rubbed coconut oil on my scalp before, but I think any effect I saw was the placebo effect at best.


I believe I responded in the SD support thread as you posted in 2 locations. :)
Yep! I will reply to you there. I do suspect this may be SD. The only thing I don't get is how regular it is. I don't seem to have flareups, or at least they're not random, but frequent and consistent, no matter the weather or my stress level-- my scalp will, like clockwork, get sore on day three if I don't wash it, no matter what I do.


I experienced this last night. For me, my scalp seems to produce different sebum depending on how I wash and how I treat it. For instance, S&C gives me "wash every third or fourth day" hair, but waxy sebum. The waxy stuff is what causes pain.

Alternative methods like CO and such give me oily sebum that doesn't look very nice after day two, but that sebum won't be waxy, so it doesn't hurt.

The reason my scalp hurt last night is that I stretched out a wash cycle on oily sebum using dry shampoo, which removed the oil and left the wax.

Maybe you make a little thicker of sebum like me?

ETA: as for the wet hair and itchy scalp, I'm not sure. There's others who experience the same. Mine behaves if I put it up damp, and my scalp dries fine. But that's just me.

That sounds pretty similar to me, though I've never noticed a difference in my sebum. If I put up my hair damp, though, it will still be damp at the end of the day, and that means my scalp will be quite itchy.

[lapushka]

Yep! I will reply to you there. I do suspect this may be SD. The only thing I don't get is how regular it is. I don't seem to have flareups, or at least they're not random, but frequent and consistent, no matter the weather or my stress level-- my scalp will, like clockwork, get sore on day three if I don't wash it, no matter what I do.

That's pretty common for me too. I can go without washing one week, but not much longer than that or I will get into trouble with my SD!

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

Hi
I have to wash with water every 4 days. My scalp gets very parched (dry but not the flaky type) as I near my next wash day. But I do not have oily scalp but normal.

Last week I was busy and delayed my wash day. Ouch did my head hurt. I was very stressed. I needed to wash urgently. I applied some neem oil (as an overnight pre oiling of my usual oils would have been too long a wait and i needed instant relief) and then washed. It was a relief. This week my scalp is feeling so much better. Today is day 4 and my scalp is relaxed. I had guest over and needed to prepare breakfast so could not wash. Will wash tomorrow

I usually oil my scalp the night before wash with:-
Castor-oil
Coconut oil
Almond
Grape seed oil
All with equal amounts warmed in a bain-marie
To which I add 3 drops each of rosemary and cedarwood EO
Then wash out the next morning with water. Alternating the temperature

[Kat-Rinnè Naido]

I also do an ACV rinse before my final rinse and a conditioner leave-in after every wash

[mizukitty]

Hmmm.. interesting. From the symptoms you describe my first thought was SD. The pain, though, is a bit unusual. Your scalp seems to become irritated quite easily. I'm wondering if your issue isn't fungal.. My scalp has a lot of dead skin (gross TMI I know, sorry) and I believe this causes fungal flareups if paired with too much moisture or sebum. I believe yeast feeds on the dead skin and it gets out of control if I don't routinely wash. When I was stretching washes a long time ago, my scalp became SO unbearably itchy I couldn't sleep. Doc prescribed ketaconazole which is an antifungal similar to miconazole, but prescription strength, and it subsided in like 1 wash. Perhaps see if you can get a GP to prescribe that for you? I suspect since coal tar is beneficial, an antifungal might be as well. Worst case, you'll have ruled out fungal issues if it doesn't help.

I personally also have weird skin issues. I have a heat allergy (yes, allergic to a rise in my body temperature) that will cause mild hives if I shower in hot water, sweat a lot working out or being in the sun or whatever. When my body cools down the hives subside. The human body is soooo weird..

Anyway, good luck to you. The most important thing is to pay attention to changes in your scalp and change ONE thing at a time and note the results. You'll be able to zero in on what helps and what doesn't.

[lapushka]

Yeah, like mizukitty, I am also all for for ruling it out. Meanwhile, don't let any oil or conditioner touch your scalp (it feeds the fungal growth, makes it worse so to speak). Get the 2% Nizoral, so ask your GP for a check-up and if you can try that particular product if s/he sees an issue. If not, then at least try the 1% and see if that doesn't improve things.

[Brileeka]

I have the same thing, after 48 hours without a wash my scalp gets extremely sore and I'm even more prone to getting tension head aches at that time. Even though I only wash my hair every three days my scalp has never adjusted and the 3rd day is always annoying to say the least. I think it is just a mild case of seborrheic dermatitis. I even have been starting to get acne on my scalp lately; my skin doesn't want to go that long without a wash and neither does my hair. My advise would be to wash you scalp as often as you feel needed and just use a mild shampoo. I don't know what to say about the water part because my scalp acts best freshly washed or wet.

[Entangled]

Hi
I have to wash with water every 4 days. My scalp gets very parched (dry but not the flaky type) as I near my next wash day. But I do not have oily scalp but normal.

Last week I was busy and delayed my wash day. Ouch did my head hurt. I was very stressed. I needed to wash urgently. I applied some neem oil (as an overnight pre oiling of my usual oils would have been too long a wait and i needed instant relief) and then washed. It was a relief. This week my scalp is feeling so much better. Today is day 4 and my scalp is relaxed. I had guest over and needed to prepare breakfast so could not wash. Will wash tomorrow

I usually oil my scalp the night before wash with:-
Castor-oil
Coconut oil
Almond
Grape seed oil
All with equal amounts warmed in a bain-marie
To which I add 3 drops each of rosemary and cedarwood EO
Then wash out the next morning with water. Alternating the temperature. I also do an ACV rinse before my final rinse and a conditioner leave-in after every wash
Thanks! I also do an acid rinse.


Hmmm.. interesting. From the symptoms you describe my first thought was SD. The pain, though, is a bit unusual. Your scalp seems to become irritated quite easily. I'm wondering if your issue isn't fungal.. My scalp has a lot of dead skin (gross TMI I know, sorry) and I believe this causes fungal flareups if paired with too much moisture or sebum. I believe yeast feeds on the dead skin and it gets out of control if I don't routinely wash. When I was stretching washes a long time ago, my scalp became SO unbearably itchy I couldn't sleep. Doc prescribed ketaconazole which is an antifungal similar to miconazole, but prescription strength, and it subsided in like 1 wash. Perhaps see if you can get a GP to prescribe that for you? I suspect since coal tar is beneficial, an antifungal might be as well. Worst case, you'll have ruled out fungal issues if it doesn't help.

I personally also have weird skin issues. I have a heat allergy (yes, allergic to a rise in my body temperature) that will cause mild hives if I shower in hot water, sweat a lot working out or being in the sun or whatever. When my body cools down the hives subside. The human body is soooo weird..

Anyway, good luck to you. The most important thing is to pay attention to changes in your scalp and change ONE thing at a time and note the results. You'll be able to zero in on what helps and what doesn't.
That makes sense. Generally, my skin is sensitive to water (at least my hands, feet, and scalp are). It's a little tricky to wait, but I know it will be worth it!



Yeah, like mizukitty, I am also all for for ruling it out. Meanwhile, don't let any oil or conditioner touch your scalp (it feeds the fungal growth, makes it worse so to speak). Get the 2% Nizoral, so ask your GP for a check-up and if you can try that particular product if s/he sees an issue. If not, then at least try the 1% and see if that doesn't improve things.
I will see what I can do. Hopefully I can get in to see a dermatologist when I get home for christmas.


I have the same thing, after 48 hours without a wash my scalp gets extremely sore and I'm even more prone to getting tension head aches at that time. Even though I only wash my hair every three days my scalp has never adjusted and the 3rd day is always annoying to say the least. I think it is just a mild case of seborrheic dermatitis. I even have been starting to get acne on my scalp lately; my skin doesn't want to go that long without a wash and neither does my hair. My advise would be to wash you scalp as often as you feel needed and just use a mild shampoo. I don't know what to say about the water part because my scalp acts best freshly washed or wet.
Yes! This sounds exactly like me. I know the best thing to do is keep it clean; it's just hard when I don't have the energy to wash it but know that my scalp will react angrily if I don't.

I'm thinking part of my problem regarding SD shampoos is that I'm not leaving them on long enough. They're on long enough to get the sebum off, but I don't think quite long enough to treat my skin. So, my first experiment will be to leave my shampoo on longer. Then, if that doesn't work, I'll try the other one I have.

[Stepo_NiNha]

I didn't read all responses now but I'd go to a doctor. Painful scalp 24h after washing? That's odd.

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

I have SD and ACV rinses along with medicated shampoos work the best. Right now I am using a script shampoo along with a mix of african black soap and other medicated shampoos. I use several because I heard the scalp starts to adjust. So far so good, I would see a doctor if I was you. The second I saw a dermatologist my scalp improved so much.

[nicolezoie]

I didn't read the whole thread, but your scalp sounds alot like mine. When all else fails, I do a scalp massage, not rubbing the scalp directly, but moving my scalp around in large sections like you would rub your temples to alleviate a headache, and this helps loosen up the tightness.

[LillithTheFirst]

Maybe seek advice from a dermatologist to make sure its nothing medical?