Experimenting and I'm confused by the results.

[melesine]

Ok here's the deal, I've been using a cleansing conditioner with cones for years now. I've always had a decent wad of hair in the shower after washing, but not enough that I'd call it hair loss. I have lots of hair on my head and no thin areas. Since I was washing 1-2x a week and wearing my hair up most of the time in between and showed a small amount of strands when combing before bed or when detangling before washing I figured it all added up to my normal daily shed. It just showed up in the shower.

Here's the confusing thing. When I did WO for about 2 weeks I no longer got those wads of hair in the shower. I was preening, BBB and combing with minuscule shed hair every day. When I WO cleansed CWC I also got maybe 10 hairs or something. I did use clarifying shampoo to remove the cones ( forgot to say that) I wasn't thrilled with my scalp though with WO and I wanted to try CG. So I bought some Deva Curl original low poo. I used it alone, no conditioner. My scalp felt good. My hair looked great. I played with some gel. Then I decided maybe I should condition my hair? So I bought the new Delights conditioner for wavy hair. I got a small wad of hair in the shower.

Then today I decided to coconut oil my hair, I used to do this when I used CC with cones. Then I cleansed with the low poo and after that put delights conditioner on because my hair felt tangled at the scalp and I was afraid to comb it without conditioner in ( even though I had no issues doing that when WO), I got a significant hair wad in the shower when I was done.

I do believe my hair is low porosity, it takes at least 4 hours to dry even when it's down. It's color resistant ( although I use demi color on the root only). I always just cleanse and air dry except maybe 3x a year I blow dry. My hair is also sensitive to too much protein, it makes me frizzy and my hair rough.

All that to say, is it the conditioner that's the problem? Maybe cowashing isn't for me after all? Should I just use a no sulfate low poo? I've never not conditioned my hair. This is a foreign concept to me. While I could accept the hair wads in the shower, I'm curious why I'm not getting it with WO or low poo with no conditioner.

[lapushka]

A number of people can't have conditioner touch their scalp, or they shed *bucketloads*, more than normal, to the point of thinning. This goes for oils as well. Some may be bothered by conditioner, some by oil, some by both.

I'd try a regular shampoo, sulfate-free if you like (but some also have issues with that), but you could try, at least. You may have to use a regular sulfate shampoo (and there is nothing wrong with that).

It means you *can not* use conditioner on your scalp. So, STOP immediately!

[truepeacenik]

Melasine,
When conditioned after the Deva Curl, did you apply it to the scalp?
I have to give at least two finger widths clearance as my scalp will shed if conditioned at all.

What exactly is a CWC as WO?

[melesine]

I don't use coconut oil on my scalp, just on the length. I forgot to say also, that when I was doing WO or just the low poo my hair did seem to dry faster than when I was using cleansing conditioner or shampoo and then conditioner.

Yes, I did put the deva curl conditioner on my scalp. I guess I can try just from the ears down. I used to do that back when I used regular shampoo and conditioner but that was because my scalp was oily then and my ends were dry. That's no longer the case. My hair is pretty normal as far as moisture level now from roots to ends.

CWC is cold, warm, cold. So when I was WO cleansing I would thoroughly saturate my hair in cool water, then switch to warm when doing the cleansing massage and then back to cool/cold for a final rinse.

So if I can't use conditioner on my scalp, I guess that means I can't cowash and I should give up cleansing conditioners completely? So far I'm doing fine with the no sulfate low poo from Deva Curl. I do have some Suave clarifying shampoo that I used to removed the cones from old cleansing conditioner and styling products.

[truepeacenik]

I use Shikkai everyday shampoo, diluted 3:1 water :shampoo. It's non sulphate. I occasionally use cones on my ends, so I will use it straight on the ends if needed. Usually, the no-cone conditioner does it well enough, given that I clarify my last eight inches or so every other month.

CWC usually means condition-wash-condition on this board. See my confusion?

One thing, from one tinkerer to another, don't tinker constantly. It's hard to track what works best, or most efficiently, when changing something regularly.
I'm a fan of shampoo bars. My hair doesn't care, so I will take a break from my liquid shampoo about twice a year. Usually as travel, but I do it at home, too.
I also try to stick with what works. I found a conditioner that works well, got it in unscented, and occasionally make an EO scent blend of the conditioner in a small container for a use or two.
I bought my shampoo in a gallon a couple years ago. With dilution, it's holding out very well.
In stores, my shampoo is about $7 to $8 for a 12 oz bottle. The gallon was $35 or so, plus buying a pump, and I've been using it two years. I'm slowly washing the label off the original small bottle I use in shower.

[melesine]

OK now I'm freaking out and crying. My hair is such a mess. It feels horrible and kind of matted at the crown. I figured it was still wet so I got back in the shower. I went ahead and put my old coney CC on it just so I could try and detangle it without breaking. Yes, on the scalp. Then I ended up counting the hairs in the wad in shower from earlier today and there are probably 50-75. Then after I rinsed out the CC it still felt horrible on the crown so I used my clarifying shampoo. I finally had to force myself to leave it alone. I just don't know where to go from here.

[melesine]

Alright I'm calmed down now. It's not as bad as I thought. I did have a big tangled spot but it was near the ends in the back and came out without losing any hairs. I slowly combed it from ends to roots. It feels worse than it looks. But it never feels good when I use just shampoo or WO but it ends up looking fine when it's dry.

[animetor7]

Were you able to get it detangled? If not I'd recommend getting in the shower again and coating it with conditioner, even at the scalp, and detangling it gently with a wide tooth comb while still in the shower. I would tackle the mats first. After it's all detangled, or if it already is, I'd stop using conditioner on the scalp, it seems to making your scalp unhappy. That doesn't mean that you have to give up cleansing conditioners entirely, they could still be very useful for your lengths, especially in getting a heavy oiling out should you ever use one. You just have to find a cleansing method that your scalp is happy with. I would start by trying CWC (condition wash condition, not cold warm cold in this case) with a conditioner and shampoo you like alright, use that for a while, my rule of thumb for experiments is at least 4 washes. And then assess what your hair might need that's different. Too dry? find a heavier conditioner or gentler shampoo. Too greasy? try a more cleansing shampoo. And so on. Most of all take a few deep breaths and remember, it's hair, it will grow back. I know you feel awful right now, but your hair will get better, it just is in a rough spot right now. Hang in there!!! :) :flower:

[melesine]

I did get it detangled and I ended up blow drying it on low and it looks great and feels soft and shiny.

It wasn't actually tangled or matted at the crown, but it was clumping together and felt matted as a result.

I had to remind myself that when I was WO and just using shampoo that it always felt weird after washing but dried looking fine.


ETA I think I'm still not used to my natural texture, because I used heavy cleansing conditioners for years and before that I used shampoo and conditioner designed to make my hair straighter. So I'm not used to how it feels when washed without those. So I panicked when it felt different.

Thanks for the encouragement and advice animetor7, truepeacenik and lapushka