Colour B4 Disaster - please help!

[Derv999]

Hi everyone, this is my first time to post a question here and I really hope you can help. It's sort of complex but I'll try to keep it to the point. I am a 52 year old woman with longer than shoulder-length hair which I enjoy 'playing' with when it comes to colour. I have been having my hair coloured at the salon and at home for over 30 years. Anyway, most recently my hair was purple from the roots to about half way down (Schwartzkopf Cyber Purple) and it was black the rest of the way down but I added a colour by Schwartzkopf called Cosmic Blue which, judging by the image on the box (which I know is a big mistake) my hair should have had a blue shine over the black section but it didn't work out like that. Anyway, in the end I got fed up with that and decided to go much lighter and purchased the Schwartzkopf Electric Blue. I then had to go about lifting those dark colours from my hair but did not want to bleach my hair so I went for the Colour B4, colour remover which works by shrinking the colour molecules and then several weeks of continuous washing to remove all traces of these molecules before you can introduce a permanent colour. Well, I went through the whole, unbelieveably time consuming and difficult process twice with the Colour B4 but all I have is yellow hair on the top blending down into orange and then dark copper where the black areas used to be. I'd been to the salon for a cut and my stylist told me to be very wary about even using semi-permanents on my hair after the colour remove as the hair will be so porous and the semi-permanent may stain the hair permanently. I have an annual event coming up in two weeks time. After all that my question is, does anyone know of a quicker way to remove Colour B4 from the hair other than washing it over and over for several weeks. I am desperate. Please help and also advise what might happen if I just bit the bullet and went in there with a serious, bleach based lightener??

[pastina]

Honestly, you don't need to wash and wash for several weeks. ...You just need to wash *very* thoroughly. Most people don't realize how much rinsing that stuff takes to actually work. If I remember correctly, the product instructions leaflet thing says to wash for like fifteen minutes? When I recommend this stuff to people, I often tell them to wash several times, because no one realizes how LONG fifteen minutes is when they're washing their hair, lol.

So, you're right, these color removers work by shrinking dye molecules so they can more easily escape the hair. But, they're really designed for permanent dyes. That's not to say it won't work or didn't work-- I know tons of people that have had success removing fashion colors (semis, veggies, whatever you'd like to call them) using these type of products. But alllll that rinsing is to remove the *permanent* color molecules from your hair. The fear is, if you don't rinse enough and then use something with peroxide, the permanent color molecules that were left behind can essentially un-shrink and you'll end up with blotches of the color you thought was gone. AAH!!

But.... this is less of a worry when you're trying to remove a dye that didn't use peroxide in the first place.

What I'm trying to say is, if you go in with a semi right now, you'll be fine. You might have staining, but that's always a roll of the dice with semis when your hair has been pre-lightened, which yours is. Certain semi dyes stain more easily than others (pinks, I'm looking at you.) This can be prevented to a degree by mixing a bit of white conditioner into your dye before applying.

Bleach based lighteners require peroxide, so, yeah, just make sure you've washed the heck out of your hair first. Since your hair's already been lightened a bit, I'd for sure recommend a bleach bath instead of straight bleach (it's basically just cutting your bleach with clarifying shampoo). And coconut oil soaks beforehand are going to be your friend, as well as protein conditioners after the fact.

If you need any more help, feel free to message me!

[lapushka]

I'd say if your colorist is wary, that says enough. Talk to her/him to have this fixed. This is far too "big" to tackle on your own. If you throw a box of permanent dye on it, chances are it will turn out a soot black (because that's what porous hair does). And yes, after bleach, it happened to me. I put a light brown color over it and it turned to a soot black, chemically cut & burned my hair. Listen to the hairdresser! :flower:

[pastina]

Ooooop, nevermind, you dont have enough posts for that. I'll just keep an eye on this thread. <3

[pastina]

Lapushka, I hope you don't take this the wrong way.... you tell that story a lot, but it's not always relevant. What you did was several processes right on top of each other. That's not what's going on here.

Plus, not all stylists know what they're doing, but they're all willing to take a client's money. There's a decent chance that the stylist thinks she used a color stripper and not a color remover. Strippers use peroxide. Removers don't.

[lapushka]

Lapushka, I hope you don't take this the wrong way.... you tell that story a lot, but it's not always relevant. What you did was several processes right on top of each other. That's not what's going on here.

Plus, not all stylists know what they're doing, but they're all willing to take a client's money. There's a decent chance that the stylist thinks she used a color stripper and not a color remover. Strippers use peroxide. Removers don't.

Yes she did multiple dyes on top of each other, which is what I did. And you have your experiences, pastina, which are great, and that's fine, but it's not always the same for others. IMMHO, I think it's dangerous to suggest she can fix this on her own when a hairdresser warned against further processing. But let's not squabble. ;)

[pastina]

Well, she did multiple semi-permanent dyes on top of each other.

And he's saying it might stain. And yep. Totally can. It's not going to cause a chemical burn, though, because it can't. There's no peroxide.



....I really try to help on this forum by giving advice on a specific situation when it's asked for, but I find that it's pointless when it's followed by a post like yours, that's just dooming the op to failure. I think I should just stop giving advice.

[pastina]

I dont want to go in and edit anything so I'm posting again.

Lapushka, in this instance, you're right bc I had no idea THESE WERE PERMANENT DYES?! I didn't know that was even a thing. My mind is blown and I'm sorry.

So, dear OP-- THESE COLORS ARE PERMANENT?! Dude, no. Stop buying them. Like, yesterday. Throw them out. Permanent dye causes unnecessary damage, and no lie, it doesn't last as long as semi dyes. The advice I gave was on the assumption that you were using semi-permanent color. Whhhhyyyy are you using permanents! Do yourself a favor and get a bottle of Special FX or a jar of Manic Panic. You'll like them better and your hair will thank you. Whhhyyy are these a thing?! omg.

[lapushka]

I dont want to go in and edit anything so I'm posting again.

Lapushka, in this instance, you're right bc I had no idea THESE WERE PERMANENT DYES?! I didn't know that was even a thing. My mind is blown and I'm sorry.

So, dear OP-- THESE COLORS ARE PERMANENT?! Dude, no. Stop buying them. Like, yesterday. Throw them out. Permanent dye causes unnecessary damage, and no lie, it doesn't last as long as semi dyes. The advice I gave was on the assumption that you were using semi-permanent color. Whhhhyyyy are you using permanents! Do yourself a favor and get a bottle of Special FX or a jar of Manic Panic. You'll like them better and your hair will thank you. Whhhyyy are these a thing?! omg.

pastina, it's fine. :) I was also under the impression they were permanent dyes. Schwarzkopf, to my knowledge doesn't do a semi or demi in store. Not under their drugstore brand (which is just "Schwarzkopf").

[spidermom]

Please don't stop giving advice pastina.

[pastina]

^^Then I'll add this:

OP- Really, really really, REALLY, don't go in with bleach now. Just use a semi dye.

[dansyl]

You should be fine to put a semi on now. It sounds like the color oops did its job and you are left with "bleached" hair. I've used semi several times after color oops with no issues. Just please don't use permanent dye. It will add more damage and may not turn out the color you want.

[littlestarface]

I'm very curious because I see lapushka saying this chemical cut and burn in almost every post and I need to ask how exactly does one have bleach cut and burn your skin? I could see burn and the hair like fall off but I've never heard of anyone in my life say they got cuts and burns from a hair bleach.

[Anje]

Looking at these products, they all look like they're permanent dyes with peroxide developers. Thing is that all these permanents will use the peroxide to lighten your base hair to help get a more consistent result. (Compare to the semi-permanent fun colored direct dyes which use no developer, but give wildly different colors depending on what color hair they're going over.)

From the sound of it, the ColourB4 did exactly what it was supposed to do -- it removed all the dye from your hair, and it has revealed to you what your hair color is now following the multiple exposures to peroxide. You don't have ColourB4 left in your hair giving it that lighter color; you have lighter color hair now because you dyed it multiple times with peroxide.

At this point, if I were you, I'd either have a pro go over your hair with bleach to try to get it an even color, or I'd use a very dark color to try to get it even. As semis work by laying a sort of transparent color over all the hair (like viewing it through a filter), I agree with your stylist that you probably won't get an even color from one and that it might fade unevenly due to the varying porousity of your hair. All the same, for future playing with color, I highly recommend you switch to semi-permanent direct dyes and don't use anything that has you mix in a developer or contains hydrogen peroxide. That's only going to continue to give you damage and hair that isn't the original color underneath.

(P.S. I'm moving your thread to the Mane Forum, where it'll get more views and you can see more advice.)

[MidnightMoon]

Please don't stop giving advice pastina.

I agree, specially considering you're one of the few of us here who actively changes her hair colour and actually has plenty of experience with all sorts of dyes :heart:

[lapushka]

I'm very curious because I see lapushka saying this chemical cut and burn in almost every post and I need to ask how exactly does one have bleach cut and burn your skin? I could see burn and the hair like fall off but I've never heard of anyone in my life say they got cuts and burns from a hair bleach.

My doctor prescribed me a lotion for my burnt scalp, so yeah. :(

I had tried to get henna out, so 2x bleach. Then a dye on top of it. Worked well, but when I went to touch up the roots, the light brown dye acted funny and I got a chemical cut & burn. And the dye came out a soot black instead of a light brown too. I still don't know how it worked, but... I underwent it. I think it was application upon application, and there weren't even that much, right? So, you *always* have to be careful.

When I read these posts of people who dye like 4x in one month, I get the heebie jeebies.

And when I say chemical cut, I mean I lost my BSL length hair to a chin length chemical chop. Not as in "cuts" on the scalp. :lol:

[MidnightMoon]

I guess I'm lucky, having such fine hair that I still have it on my scalp then, I guess.
On February 2015 I cut it to BSL and decided to dye it. My hair had Pravana blue on it to make it blue-black. I bleached from the ears down twice, using a store bought platinum blonde, and then I put ginger on my whole head. After the colour disaster I went to the salon, where it was all bleached all over again, twice. This happened on the same day. They also applied some colour, and I've used Pravana blue again on it several times. I can notice the difference in thickness, probably because of all the mechanical damaged I and they caused by brushing and detangling, as well as a bit dryer ends, but it really doesn't look all that bad :p. Now I have a sort of ombre going on, with my natural almost black, then blueish-greenish. It's also back to hip length and I haven't cut once after all that bleaching.

[littlestarface]

My doctor prescribed me a lotion for my burnt scalp, so yeah. :(

I had tried to get henna out, so 2x bleach. Then a dye on top of it. Worked well, but when I went to touch up the roots, the light brown dye acted funny and I got a chemical cut & burn. And the dye came out a soot black instead of a light brown too. I still don't know how it worked, but... I underwent it. I think it was application upon application, and there weren't even that much, right? So, you *always* have to be careful.

When I read these posts of people who dye like 4x in one month, I get the heebie jeebies.

And when I say chemical cut, I mean I lost my BSL length hair to a chin length chemical chop. Not as in "cuts" on the scalp. :lol:

Well when someone says chemical cut and burn it sounds like a chemical actually cut you.

What kind of dye did you use to make it burn you? Since it wasn't bleach but a actual dye.

[Pamberpestana]

It sounds to me like the color b4 did exactly what it was supposed to. If you're hair is yellow and orange, that must be what your color originally is underneath all that dye. Everytime you dye your hair, especially with box color the peroxide in the developer will lighten your natural hair color even if you are going darker.
And honestly I don't see a problem with applying color directly after using the color b4. I've done it many times, and I think it might even say in the instructions somewhere that it's okay.

But everyone's right, permanent dyes are damaging and if you like to play with your color I wouldnt go there anymore haha. :)

[lapushka]

Well when someone says chemical cut and burn it sounds like a chemical actually cut you.

What kind of dye did you use to make it burn you? Since it wasn't bleach but a actual dye.

No, that's not what it means at all. :)

It was L'Oréal Excellence dye. L'Oréal Préférence has always been fine, but not the former! And I do think my hair was *very* porous by that time, which is why it soaked up the dye too much (making the color darker).

[Derv999]

Wow, thank you. That's way more useful information than I ever expected to get and I will certainly take your advice on board. I have just been on the B4 website, FAQ and their recommendation there is that you wash and wait for at least a month before introducing the permanent colour. In a way that is not a major problem except for the fact that I am worried about how the semi's will interact with the colour that is now in my hair. You see, I am an artist and I am sort of looking at it from that perspective in terms of how different colours work when mixed together. I have three colour bombs purchased. Turquoise, navy and purple. So I am there trying to figure out if I put on the turquoise over the yellowey orange hair at the top, will I end up with some kind of green which is what you would get if you mixed these colours together as paint and I'm trying to figure out the same with the other colours. Last thing I need is a green head of hair. So, forgive me if I am slow on the uptake but are you saying that I could just skip ahead to the bleach based lighteners once I have made sure that the hair is washed to within an inch of it's life? If so, I think I am ready to take the final plunge, the one that I said I would never take, the bleaching! So, if you have a minute at any stage could you just tell me the difference between a bleach bath and straight bleach? Your photo is just fabulous btw. Thanks again!

[MidnightMoon]

Yeah, if you put blue or in your case turquoise which is already greenish on yellow hair you will most certainly have green hair. Dark green at first if the dye is pigmented and dark to begin with, and will wash out to lighter green. If you were going for a more natural look, I'd advice using red. A bluish deep burgundy red will still be "presentable", and a light copperish red will look natural. It's the easiest colour to use over bleached hair that has ended up orange or yellow. Once you've done it a few times it will most likely bleed less, and your base colour will be a bit darker. It also helps kinda blend and distract from any demarcation lines, darker or lighter spots, etc.

[Anje]

I don't do a lot of dyeing, but my gut says that if you've rinsed the ColourB4 out of your hair completely (I'd wait til you can't smell it), you can probably go in and bleach it. You're going to accumulate damage, of course, but I seriously doubt there'll be negative interactions between the products.

Before you bleach, though, I'd do a few things to try to minimize what damage it'll do. One of those things is to chelate your hair, as mineral buildup from copper seems to be a contributing factor for damage. I'm not sure what's available in the UK, but there should be hard water anti-mineral sorts of treatments or shampoos available, at least from beauty supply shops. It wouldn't hurt to use one in the hours before you bleach it.

The other thing I'd suggest you do before you bleach, based on lots of anecdotes around here, is to really saturate your hair with coconut oil. It doesn't have to be the expensive virgin stuff -- refined cooking coconut oil or something from an Indian grocer is perfectly fine. Let it sit on there for at least an hour, then bleach your hair while it's still oily. By all accounts, it bleaches just fine, but hair tends to come out of the process with way less damage than if it's not oiled. I don't know offhand if other oils work -- the success stories have all featured coconut oil.

Edit: I'm going to defer to pastina on all things dye and color related. She knows what she's talking about.

[pastina]

The waiting period is so that you keep washing. Any old dye stuck in your hair plus a permanent color, and you'll have re-oxidation. That's when the molecules un-shrink, blow back up to normal size, however is the best way to say that, lol. The thing is, bleaching requires peroxide too. So yes, it's super important to make sure you're rinsed aaaall the way out before either bleach or permanent color. I've heard horror stories from girls Color-b4'ing out black permanent dye, getting wonderful results, then bleaching and OMG they have BLACK PATCHES in their blonde!! What happened? ....they didn't rinse enough! :(

Semi's work like layers of cellophane. Depending on the color you use, you might be able to get complete coverage, but, yeah, you're going to see your base color through them to some degree... and you'll see that base more and more as you fade.

It's hard for me to say with any major degree of certainty what color you should use, if you're dead-set on only using permanent colors. I'm not positive how they'd react. Based on my experiences with semis, though, I can venture an educated guess? Of the three colors you mentioned, I'd guess you'd have the best results with the purple, but only if the purple is pink-based. If it's a true purple or if it's blue based, you'll get murky grossness because purple and yellow equal brown. Likewise, blue would most likely be murky... especially where your hair is more orange. Turquoise might not be terrible, but I'd still give my vote to purple in this instance.

Being an artist is a major advantage here! I achieve the colors I get by working *with* the base colors I have at any given time. I'm not sure what your end game is (though I gather it's not green.) And, if I may, what exactly is so bad about green? she asks, while currently sporting green hair ) But here's where semis would be your friend-- you can mix colors to counteract or play up the base color you have. For example, if my hair is too yellow to achieve a proper blue, I can add purple to my blue dye to stop my end result from from being green. ....I don't think you can really do that with permanent colors.

I'm clearly pushing for you to use a semi over what you're currently working with. It's the safest thing for your hair.

If you decide you're going to bleach, or even bleach bathe, neither of which I think is a great idea right now, considering how much you've done to your hair in a short amount of time, you then abbbbsolutely should not use a permanent color over that bleached hair. I honestly don't think a permanent dye right now, without bleaching, is a good idea, either.

But that's all disclaimer-y stuff, and none of that answers your question, which was what's the difference between straight bleach and a bleach bath.

Bleach powder sachet plus equal amount of peroxide equals bleach. This is super harsh on your hair, and should not be done within a month of any other process involving peroxide.... and I think that's not conservative enough if you're wanting to grow your hair or even maintain your length.

Take that bleach and add an equal amount of shampoo, and you've got a bleach bath. It's still harsh, but it's *less* harsh. It also lightens the hair a bit more gradually. This shouldn't be done within a week of any other process involving peroxide (so, yes, it can be done more often than straight bleach). I personally only use this method, and only on my roots.

I am sick and rambling, so I hope I answered you? I'm not even sure?

[Derv999]

Well, all that's left to be said is thank you so much. You are so kind to have taken so much time and to have explained so clearly the answers to my questions. I can honestly say now that you have calmed me down and put my head back in the right place about all of this so, yes, I am steering clear of anything permanent for the foreseeable future and will stick with the semis. We have a great salon shop in my town with an extensive range of products but the colour bombs I have used in the past are very good. And. of course, there is also the fact that if I find myself with a colour I don't especially like (sorry about green oops!) well, as it will only be a semi I am not back to square one wondering how to get rid of it short of shaving my head. So, thanks again. I really appreciate your advice and that of all the people who commented. I am just not sure how I go about posting a thread to thank the other people. Onwards and upwards :-)

[Derv999]

Thank you for your help. Good suggestion to wash until you can't smell it anymore because it certainly does smell, so that would be a good way of gauging if most of it was gone. Oh why did I even do this? Oh well, have to live with it now and try to have some fun with semis!! Thanks again.

[Derv999]

Thank you. This has certainly been an education for me and it is only just beginning to sink in with me now why my hair is yellow and orange after the colour remove. Now I get it but I am so not happy about it - it is not the fault of the product but the fault of myself for years of permanent hair colouring not realising that each time I did that at home or in the salon that I was tampering permanently with the natural or 'virgin' colour of my hair. The only way past this for me is to spend another 3 or 4 years growing it back to virgin (which is now salt and pepper) and, as I said, having a blast with the semis.

[lapushka]

Well, your hair looks amazing in your avatar, FWIW! :D

[Derv999]

Wow, thank you so much Lapushka. What a nice thing to say. It doesn't look like that now I can tell you lol. I am finding it difficult to use the site. Don't mean to corner you with questions but you seem to have a lot of experience here so perhaps you can help. Firstly, I have now clue what those figures in the 'type' section are about - well, I sort of know what they are about but I have no idea how the classifications work and how you decide what to enter for that section. When registering I just guessed so the numbers next to my type may be saying that my hair is five feet long, very curly and very green...I have no clue. I would love to know how that works so that I could even understand what I am looking at next to your 'type'!!! The other thing is access. Even though I am obviously registered I seem to be denied access from a lot of things even to edit my own profile. Do you know why that is? Do I have to be registered for a certain amount of time or have a certain number of posts behind me before I have full access?? Really sorry for bothering you with all these questions but I am not even sure if I can ask questions like these through the forum. Oh yes, I am not finished with you yet haha You know when someone responds to me with a helpful answer and I want to reply and select 'quick reply' , what does that mean?? Thanks in advance Lapushka. Bet you are sorry you were nice to me about my hair

[Derv999]

Thank you. I agree with you on everything you say and realise I need to be a good girl and change my ways haha I am going to end up busking for a living to pay for all the semis I will have to buy but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do, right!!

[lapushka]

Wow, thank you so much Lapushka. What a nice thing to say. It doesn't look like that now I can tell you lol. I am finding it difficult to use the site. Don't mean to corner you with questions but you seem to have a lot of experience here so perhaps you can help. Firstly, I have now clue what those figures in the 'type' section are about - well, I sort of know what they are about but I have no idea how the classifications work and how you decide what to enter for that section. When registering I just guessed so the numbers next to my type may be saying that my hair is five feet long, very curly and very green...I have no clue. I would love to know how that works so that I could even understand what I am looking at next to your 'type'!!! The other thing is access. Even though I am obviously registered I seem to be denied access from a lot of things even to edit my own profile. Do you know why that is? Do I have to be registered for a certain amount of time or have a certain number of posts behind me before I have full access?? Really sorry for bothering you with all these questions but I am not even sure if I can ask questions like these through the forum. Oh yes, I am not finished with you yet haha You know when someone responds to me with a helpful answer and I want to reply and select 'quick reply' , what does that mean?? Thanks in advance Lapushka. Bet you are sorry you were nice to me about my hair

I don't mind the questions - at all! Ask away.

For hairtyping you need to wash, condition your hair, towel dry it gently then leave it alone to dry. No combing, nothing! Then take a pic of the back of your head. This is to determine whether you have straight, wavy, or even curly hair. This is converted into a number system, so you can easily find other tips and people here with the same kind of hair as you, to compare notes so to speak.

You need at least 25 good quality posts and mod approval. It's all here, wait I'll link it:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=68520

HTH, if there's anything else, just shout!

[ArtificiallyRed]

I'm probably a little late here!
The last time I dyed my hair, I stripped it beforehand with a colour remover, then as soon as it was dry I put a semi permanent veggie dye (Directions) over it. I only ever dye my hair with reds so it didn't matter that my hair was orange-yellow underneath the dye. Colour Removers do suggest that you wait a month to dye with a permanent dye, so I would try to find a semi permanent colour to put on it now. You could risk bleaching it but I wouldn't do it personally. It might be worth having a look on some online hair galleries (Hair Crazy, etc) to see how long some semi permanent dyes last and how they turn out over not-so-evenly bleached hair. You could get away with putting a semi perm red on it, then putting a semi perm blue over it and see if that turns out purple-ish? Veggie dyes are interesting to layer and mix.
Good luck!!

[Wildcat Diva]

There are pictures of all the different hair types too. It just takes a bit of getting used to. Basically, just hang around and post, and if you have a specific question, ask someone and then by and by you'll be a pro and soon posting your first your LHC first year anniversary thread.

[Derv999]

Thank you so much. Great ideas there. Very sensible (unlike me haha)