PDA

View Full Version : Oily thin straight hair with seborrea going no/low poo



Henni
July 4th, 2016, 07:00 AM
I would like to ask has anyone succeeded and how.

I think I allways had problems with my hair as I have washed it every morning for past 25yrs, with some occasional times of experimenting. Failed every time.

I am able to keep nice hair if I either use Philip Kingsley flaky itchy shampoo and moisturising conditioner (wash and style every morning) or use ketokonazol shampoo occasionally and normally moisturizing shampoo and loads of cones to my dry ends. I have allways been jealous for those who are able to go without washing even for 2-3days as it is annoying to wake up so early to get presentable hair.

I have tried bs/acv washes - seborrea loves it, so it makes my scalp red and itchy. Never again.

Dry shampoo between washes - seborrea loves it too and I have tried quite a few commercial ones

Shampoo bars - same result as previous ones and extremely oily hair

I am now trying Eliah Sahil shampoo powder, scritching and preening, BBB and Lush shine &bright treatment for ends. After 2 weeks I have not experiented too much itching even I've washed every other morning.

I' m wondering how important/beneficial is scritching as if I did it same day as washing it got my hair really oily, even I had no oily feeling in my scalp before and if I just brushed with BBB, my hair is almost decent the second day. Should I just skip it? Do it only before washing?

Please help me! ☺

lapushka
July 4th, 2016, 08:25 AM
I have seborrheic dermatitis, like you, and I need to use sulfate shampoos. Too mild a shampoo sets my SD off! I couldn't go sulfate-free, and I most certainly couldn't CO-wash. I need to keep my scalp clean. Used to need to wash 2/3 times a week. Now, at classic, I can go a week. But I do need the harsh shampoo to clear off the oil real well!

I say keep your scalp happy. If you're doing things that aren't good for your scalp, then you are doing damage to potential growth - seriously. Hair tends to fall out when I have an SD flare-up, so I tend to do what I can to avoid it!

Learned my lesson the hard way! I can't keep it "mild"!

yogagirl
July 4th, 2016, 08:46 AM
I agree with lapushka. You gotta keep your scalp happy at all costs. Otherwise you will shed more and your circumference will suffer. Take it from me, who went from high iii to mid-ii after I got SD.

Do you have hard water? I can get away with milder shampoos when I use soft water. So using bottled/filtered water might be something to try.

May I ask why you want to go low poo, is it to encourage curls?

lapushka
July 4th, 2016, 08:52 AM
Yes, a little more info on your hair texture (1a, 1b, 1c ???) & routine & reasons for doing so would be useful! :)

Sulfates aren't the enemy! They're wonderful if your scalp tolerates them well. I wouldn't mess with a good thing!

Henni
July 4th, 2016, 08:55 AM
As my hair is fine, my ends get really dry and brittle because of washing and styling. Used to have BSL for some years, now I'm struggling to keep SL (I'm getting lazier every year). I would still love have long hair! How did you manage wash only 2-3 times a week?

I think my SD flared bad just after 2 CO-washes, so I've tried it too. I don't know which one was worse CO-was or dry shampoo.

I have understood that SD flares because of yeast and thats why ketokonazol works. Has anyone tried cranberry or yoghurt or some natural remedy for yeast?

Henni
July 4th, 2016, 09:04 AM
I have 1b and just barely ii. We have soft water.

Main reason is that my hair tends to need more care to look nice. I'm tired of washing it :) Maybe if I would wash it less or with milder products, I could get away with less.

Temme
July 4th, 2016, 09:11 AM
If scritching is making your hair greasy, I don't see any harm in skipping it. As far as I know, scritching is only essential for people who do NW/SO or else wash their hair very rarely (like once a month maybe).

lapushka
July 4th, 2016, 09:17 AM
How are you styling it after washing? Are you heat styling it with a straightener? Because washing doesn't damage your hair - at all! That is a big big myth right there! There are people on here with long hair who have to wash frequently.

Henni
July 4th, 2016, 09:32 AM
I used to blow dry my hair, but not so much anymore, I wake up even earlier than before to let my hair dry.

When I let my hair dry naturally, and have less products, I have really light and flyaway hair. Can't wear lipgloss or moisturizing lipstick. :) Worse is that it tangles more, during colder months and wearing coats i get huge nest back of my head.

I have spend quite a lot of time and money for getting nice hair, but haven't exactly managed it. It's probably why I would like to try out milder haircare, maybe if it would help reducing oil.

Previously when I have tried to wash 3 times a week with sulfate-shampoos, I have looked like a grease ball for 2 weeks and ended up with irritated scalp.

lapushka
July 4th, 2016, 10:23 AM
I used to blow dry my hair, but not so much anymore, I wake up even earlier than before to let my hair dry.

When I let my hair dry naturally, and have less products, I have really light and flyaway hair. Can't wear lipgloss or moisturizing lipstick. :) Worse is that it tangles more, during colder months and wearing coats i get huge nest back of my head.

I have spend quite a lot of time and money for getting nice hair, but haven't exactly managed it. It's probably why I would like to try out milder haircare, maybe if it would help reducing oil.

Previously when I have tried to wash 3 times a week with sulfate-shampoos, I have looked like a grease ball for 2 weeks and ended up with irritated scalp.

Yes, but did you heat style? Because all that damage isn't out of your hair "just like that". It's like you have to start from a shaved head, and grow out new hair. Blow drying doesn't hurt it at all, if you set your dryer on cool/warm. If you can hold your hand in the airstream for a long time without it burning, it's *fine*! I meant the straighteners? Did you use them before?

And if you go milder and your scalp protests, then ditch all that and go back to what works; it's not worth having flare-ups and losing hair over!

turtlelover
July 4th, 2016, 10:36 AM
I get SD flares if I don't wash every day and a half. Every other wash MUST be a sulfate shampoo, or I have problems. It makes it hard to keep my semi color in, but it keeps my scalp happy. I'm tired of color fading and have considered using henna for that reason, but am scared to take the plunge to something permanent.

Obsidian
July 4th, 2016, 11:02 AM
I tried scritching and a BBB, all either did was irritate my SD and make my hair really greasy. The only way I can stretch washings it to use a good sulfate shampoo and keep my hands away from my scalp. If I start touching my hair too much or rubbing my scalp, it makes things go greasy immediately and greasy scalp= SD flare.

My hair is finally past SL so now I try to do scalp only washings unless I'm clarifying and I only use conditioner on the very ends. If conditioner or oil touch my scalp, I get a flare. What conditioner are you using? Took me years to find one that helped my ends but didn't cause a flare (still keep it off my scalp). Now I can stretch washes up to 3 days where before I had to wash everyday.

I don't think stretching washes is a good idea until you get your SD under control, then you need to find products that won't irritate it and moisturize your ends.

You might possibly need some protein to strength your ends. Next time you wash, take a wet shed strand and try stretching it. Does it feel gummy or soft? Does stretch a lot before breaking? If you stretch it out then let go, does it have a weird kinky pattern? Yes to any of those could indicate low protein.

Alternately, it could be product build up, when was the last time you clarified?

Henni
July 4th, 2016, 11:07 AM
Yes, but did you heat style? Because all that damage isn't out of your hair "just like that". It's like you have to start from a shaved head, and grow out new hair. Blow drying doesn't hurt it at all, if you set your dryer on cool/warm. If you can hold your hand in the airstream for a long time without it burning, it's *fine*! I meant the straighteners? Did you use them before?

And if you go milder and your scalp protests, then ditch all that and go back to what works; it's not worth having flare-ups and losing hair over!

Only blowdrying, might be too warm as I tried to be efficient.

I've allways stopped when flare-ups occur and medicated my scalp to be back in condition in a week.

Henni
July 4th, 2016, 11:36 AM
I've been using henna for past 1.5yrs, it really does not fade and will probably have to cut if I want change hair color.

I used cone free moisturizing shampoo and conditioner only under ears, I can't put any silicone close to my scalp and leave in oil in ends (more silicone than oil)

PixieP
July 4th, 2016, 12:03 PM
Have you tried a home made dry shampoo? All spray dry shampoo's contain alcohol, that can also irritate the scalp. But you can use just cornstarch as a dry shampoo. Use a big makeup brush (like a rouge brush) to dip in a bit of corn starch, tap of the excess, and brush over partings of hair. You can try it on a small section to see how it works for you maybe. I have psoriasis on my scalp, which gets annoyed if I use commercial dry shampoo more than once every second week. But it can withstand corn starch without any issues.

yogagirl
July 4th, 2016, 12:10 PM
Yeah I couldn't CO either. Just doesn't get my scalp clean enough. Like I mentioned before, I am able to use a milder shampoo when I wash my hair with soft water, but my hair gets greasy faster when I do, so it definitely doesn't clean as well as SLS shampoos.

If your issue is dry length/ends, is your hair long enough for scalp only washes? Maybe if you make two braids and put plastic baggies over them? You could do regular washes every 2-3 days and scalp only washes in between. Another option is CWC (conditioner on length and leave it in, shampoo, conditioner). It may cause more buildup, but it does protect the length.

lapushka
July 4th, 2016, 12:26 PM
I tried scritching and a BBB, all either did was irritate my SD and make my hair really greasy. The only way I can stretch washings it to use a good sulfate shampoo and keep my hands away from my scalp. If I start touching my hair too much or rubbing my scalp, it makes things go greasy immediately and greasy scalp= SD flare.

My hair is finally past SL so now I try to do scalp only washings unless I'm clarifying and I only use conditioner on the very ends. If conditioner or oil touch my scalp, I get a flare. What conditioner are you using? Took me years to find one that helped my ends but didn't cause a flare (still keep it off my scalp). Now I can stretch washes up to 3 days where before I had to wash everyday.

I don't think stretching washes is a good idea until you get your SD under control, then you need to find products that won't irritate it and moisturize your ends.

You might possibly need some protein to strength your ends. Next time you wash, take a wet shed strand and try stretching it. Does it feel gummy or soft? Does stretch a lot before breaking? If you stretch it out then let go, does it have a weird kinky pattern? Yes to any of those could indicate low protein.

Alternately, it could be product build up, when was the last time you clarified?

Same for me. I only detangle (comb/brush) once a week, right before my wash. I don't let a brush touch my scalp otherwise! It helps my texture out as well, so win-win.

The key is not to *have to* use the ketoconazole shampoo every so often. You want to keep away from that as much as possible, because it means you have a flare-up. If a sulfate shampoo is what it takes to keep you from that, then by God, just please use it! :) Also, when I have a flare-up, one week of medicated shampoo is not going to cut it. It needs at least 8-10 washes (a month of using it at least 2x a week) for it to be better!


Yeah I couldn't CO either. Just doesn't get my scalp clean enough. Like I mentioned before, I am able to use a milder shampoo when I wash my hair with soft water, but my hair gets greasy faster when I do, so it definitely doesn't clean as well as SLS shampoos.

If your issue is dry length/ends, is your hair long enough for scalp only washes? Maybe if you make two braids and put plastic baggies over them? You could do regular washes every 2-3 days and scalp only washes in between. Another option is CWC (conditioner on length and leave it in, shampoo, conditioner). It may cause more buildup, but it does protect the length.

Those are a great idea!

Have you ever tried sulfate shampoos? Or is that what you've been using all along and are trying to get away from? I wouldn't, if I were you, if you have to bust out the ketoconazole shampoo right now as it is!

But YMMV. Who knows. I have yet to meet someone with SD who has fared well from milder shampoos, though!

Oil (sebum, no way I'm putting oil near my scalp!) means SD flare-up if I leave that on my scalp for too long or it's not washed away fully!

Henni
July 5th, 2016, 07:10 AM
Great ideas!

I've been using sls-shampoos and no matter how cleansing they are my scalp gets greasy after 12 hours. And there has been only one shampoo that helped me beeing without ketokonazol, Philip Kingsleys flaky itchy, but it is not sold in my country, have to order it online and it is way too expensive for me, even without tolls (not enthusiastic about brexit)

I could probably wrap my ends on top of my hair to wash them, underneath they are nowadays too short :( but in better condition. I have to try it.

I haven't touched my scalp more than washing and budding SD redness has disappeared from my temples, where it allways start. So it looks good and I might have a chance. I've been using Eliah Sahil shampoo powder (clay and indian herbs) for little over 2 weeks now for past week every other day, I did get greasy on second day, but not as bad, I should try cornflower starch (Thank you for suggestion!)

I have new issues though. On top of my head my hair glossy and feels stronger without as much flyaways as before, but my ends are worse. I haven't used rinse out conditioner, just Lush shine so bright in my ends, but clearly it is not enough. Any suggestions? Pre oiling my ends or cone free conditioner?

I'm lucky as I have great response to ketokonazol and my SD shows early, so I can try out different things.

Henni
July 5th, 2016, 07:21 AM
Oh And I did do clarifying before starting experimenting. So there should not be buildup. I washed my hair this morning, unfortunately forgot to do test, blowdried with no heat.

Obsidian
July 5th, 2016, 07:46 AM
Not sure if you can get it in your country but I use herbal essence hello hydration conditioner and it's been wonderful on my dry ends, plus it doesn't irritate my SD

lapushka
July 5th, 2016, 08:17 AM
I've been using sls-shampoos and no matter how cleansing they are my scalp gets greasy after 12 hours. And there has been only one shampoo that helped me beeing without ketokonazol, Philip Kingsleys flaky itchy, but it is not sold in my country, have to order it online and it is way too expensive for me, even without tolls (not enthusiastic about brexit)

If it is oily already so soon, then milder might not be the best option, but YMMV. As always. It's just that when you have SD you have to be careful. I tried it all out, didn't work for me because I needed to bust out the Nizoral (2%) much more. I don't have to do this at all of late with sulfates.

Second vote for the HE Hello Hydration conditioner. It is my Holy Grail!

Temme
July 5th, 2016, 10:15 AM
How are you styling it after washing? Are you heat styling it with a straightener? Because washing doesn't damage your hair - at all! That is a big big myth right there! There are people on here with long hair who have to wash frequently.

I always thought washing was damaging due to hygral fatigue. Is that not true? If not that's good news for me; I wash daily!

Curly276mom
July 5th, 2016, 10:24 AM
There is some interesting new research on the scalp microbiome and it's connection to SD and dandruff, and that bacterial composition plays a more dominant role than fungal composition in scalp health.

http://mobile.the-scientist.com/article/46075/scalp-microbiome-linked-to-dandruff-severity

http://www.happi.com/issues/2016-03-01/view_features/the-scalp-microbiome

spidermom
July 5th, 2016, 10:50 AM
I have SD also. It doesn't flare very often. I usually dilute my shampoo in a squirt bottle with water because I get better spread over my scalp that way. I like to apply conditioner while I'm bent forward, my hair falling toward my feet, because I can get more conditioner on my top layer of hair without it touching my scalp. I have to wash my hair every 2-5 days, depending on what I've been doing. If I'm exercising a lot and getting sweaty, then I have to wash my hair more often.

My scalp and hair really liked ketoconazole shampoo; it was like a conditioning treatment. I didn't even get a lot of fly-aways like I do when I use a clarifying shampoo without diluting it (every couple of months).

To keep my ends from drying out, I use coconut oil on them the night before I plan to wash my hair. I also use aloe vera gel (the clear kind) after washing.

lapushka
July 5th, 2016, 10:53 AM
I always thought washing was damaging due to hygral fatigue. Is that not true? If not that's good news for me; I wash daily!

I think hygral fatigue is a bit of a "myth" in the sense that I don't think it is occurring in daily washers (if you get it dry in its normal amount of time), but instead when you leave the hair wet for too long (in damp buns and such). That's where there's more danger, well at least IMMHO.

lapushka
July 5th, 2016, 10:56 AM
I have SD also. It doesn't flare very often. I usually dilute my shampoo in a squirt bottle with water because I get better spread over my scalp that way. I like to apply conditioner while I'm bent forward, my hair falling toward my feet, because I can get more conditioner on my top layer of hair without it touching my scalp. I have to wash my hair every 2-5 days, depending on what I've been doing. If I'm exercising a lot and getting sweaty, then I have to wash my hair more often.

My scalp and hair really liked ketoconazole shampoo; it was like a conditioning treatment. I didn't even get a lot of fly-aways like I do when I use a clarifying shampoo without diluting it (every couple of months).

To keep my ends from drying out, I use coconut oil on them the night before I plan to wash my hair. I also use aloe vera gel (the clear kind) after washing.

That is something I can't do, dilute my shampoo. I have to glob it on in my 4 sections (I section-wash) and get my scalp squeaky clean. I've tried diluting half and half (water / shampoo), and it just doesn't work.

But I'm glad you have success with it - it is certainly something to try.

spidermom
July 5th, 2016, 05:15 PM
I'm glad, too, lapushka. I wouldn't have the patience to wash in sections.

Henni
July 6th, 2016, 08:11 AM
I don't think Herbal Essence is available over here, at least I haven't seen it. I try to look for it.

I started to have some itching in my scalp last night and decited to try aloe vera gel (Urtekram) rubbed in my scalp. and there is no itching today and just a couple tiny white flakes. Nothing to worry about.

Funny thing is that my hair is not as greasy as it was before on second day, I even have some flyaways. So my experiment continues.

Research about SD was interesting and makes me wonder how to feed good bacteria. Special diet? I've heard that some have cured it by eating loong periods of hormonal prescrition drugs, but only in severe cases where nothing else helped to keep it bay.

I was thinking about should i start taking pictures, where i could see where my experiment is going? Better or for worse (as expected)

lapushka
July 6th, 2016, 08:20 AM
I'm glad, too, lapushka. I wouldn't have the patience to wash in sections.

Oh well, it's not sectioned off with tools or something and I don't do one after the other. The shampoo just goes on front, back, 2 sides, and gets sudsed in well, then the whole head is massaged well, & washed. It just means the shampoo is spread around well. ;)

lapushka
July 6th, 2016, 08:22 AM
Research about SD was interesting and makes me wonder how to feed good bacteria. Special diet? I've heard that some have cured it by eating loong periods of hormonal prescrition drugs, but only in severe cases where nothing else helped to keep it bay.

Eeehm, are you talking about birth control? I'm a bit puzzled here. First time I've heard of this for SD and I've been to the doctor for it.

Henni
July 6th, 2016, 08:25 AM
I don't really know much about it, but I've understod that it's same they use for acne. Dries out everything.

Henni
July 6th, 2016, 08:32 AM
Might work or might not, loads of possible side effects, expensive, and should not get pregnant even after few months after.

lapushka
July 6th, 2016, 10:01 AM
Yes, you're basically talking about BC. I've never heard it working for SD, though.