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parkmikii
June 29th, 2016, 02:53 AM
Is there any way to do this without getting really greasy and needing to wash often? Since last summer I noticed continuous breakage on the top layer of my hair and it got now to the point that it looks like face framing layers almost. They mostly stick up when the hair is wet since it gets waiver then.
My routine is as follows:
-scalp washes once a week (balea shampoo diluted 50/50 with water)
-every 3 weeks full wash (wcc) the conditioner I currently have is a goldwell dualsenses for damaged hair, followed by a drop or two of oil on the ends as it's drying
-hair is always up except for when it's drying (usually in a braided nautilus bun)
-I never wear ponytails
-when I go to bed I always wear either a satin scarf or a satin bonnet

lapushka
June 29th, 2016, 06:22 AM
Is there any way to do this without getting really greasy and needing to wash often? Since last summer I noticed continuous breakage on the top layer of my hair and it got now to the point that it looks like face framing layers almost. They mostly stick up when the hair is wet since it gets waiver then.
My routine is as follows:
-scalp washes once a week (balea shampoo diluted 50/50 with water)
-every 3 weeks full wash (wcc) the conditioner I currently have is a goldwell dualsenses for damaged hair, followed by a drop or two of oil on the ends as it's drying
-hair is always up except for when it's drying (usually in a braided nautilus bun)
-I never wear ponytails
-when I go to bed I always wear either a satin scarf or a satin bonnet

I doubt it... maybe try the rinse-out oil method on that part of your hair with just 2/3 drops of MO. Go slow and sparse at first, see what it does. Then go over it with some conditioner (stick most of it on your lengths, but do a little bit on the canopy, bring a little up there). Then I wouldn't do that with the second conditioner (just the lengths).

Maybe try that?

parkmikii
June 29th, 2016, 06:24 AM
I doubt it... maybe try the rinse-out oil method on that part of your hair with just 2/3 drops of MO. Go slow and sparse at first, see what it does. Then go over it with some conditioner (stick most of it on your lengths, but do a little bit on the canopy, bring a little up there). Then I wouldn't do that with the second conditioner (just the lengths).

Maybe try that?

Thank you! I'll try that next wash and see how it is. Fingers crossed :)

Stepo_NiNha
June 29th, 2016, 06:36 AM
Are you sure this is breakage? Maybe new hairs showing up in the begining of their growth cycle?

parkmikii
June 29th, 2016, 06:47 AM
Are you sure this is breakage? Maybe new hairs showing up in the begining of their growth cycle?

I think it is, the ends seem to be blunt (the ones that I can see) and they seem to multiply since last year.

morrigan*
June 29th, 2016, 07:06 AM
It's possible this could be because of scalp washes ?
You could try vinegar rinse after shampoo to close cuticles, and then smoothing a drop of oil over damp hair.

Anje
June 29th, 2016, 07:15 AM
How does your scalp do with conditioner? Something light like you'd use for CO washing shouldn't make things greasy, but some people get excessive shedding from that. (I shed a little more if I condition to the scalp, might be increased slip causing things to come out in the shower instead of later? But a more moisturized scalp for me tends to decrease my oil production after a few weeks, requiring less washing.)

nakima
June 29th, 2016, 01:28 PM
what I do sometimes is condition the length and as I'm rinsing it out I just flip it up on the top for just a second or two and it gives just enough smoothness without weighing it down.I never put it directly on my scalp unless I'm doing a deep condition. Hope this helped :)

PixieP
June 29th, 2016, 01:35 PM
I switch between washing my hair standing up in the shower, and flipping my hair over leaning into the shower to wash it. When I flip my hair and bend over I can take conditioner on the top layer without getting it on the roots. I switch about every time I wash my hair, so every second wash is normal way and every second wash is upside down. Keeps my canopy happy :)

parkmikii
June 29th, 2016, 02:08 PM
It's possible this could be because of scalp washes ?
You could try vinegar rinse after shampoo to close cuticles, and then smoothing a drop of oil over damp hair.

I started scalp washes only 2-3 months ago and the breakage thing started almost a year ago (to be more noticeable at least) but ill try the vinegar thing as well if rinse out oil doesn't work, thank you for the advice :)

parkmikii
June 29th, 2016, 02:13 PM
How does your scalp do with conditioner? Something light like you'd use for CO washing shouldn't make things greasy, but some people get excessive shedding from that. (I shed a little more if I condition to the scalp, might be increased slip causing things to come out in the shower instead of later? But a more moisturized scalp for me tends to decrease my oil production after a few weeks, requiring less washing.)


what I do sometimes is condition the length and as I'm rinsing it out I just flip it up on the top for just a second or two and it gives just enough smoothness without weighing it down.I never put it directly on my scalp unless I'm doing a deep condition. Hope this helped :)


I switch between washing my hair standing up in the shower, and flipping my hair over leaning into the shower to wash it. When I flip my hair and bend over I can take conditioner on the top layer without getting it on the roots. I switch about every time I wash my hair, so every second wash is normal way and every second wash is upside down. Keeps my canopy happy :)

Thank you, I think I'll give a shot to all of these, a month at a time to see how they go ♡

Anje, I'm not too sure about which affordable conditioner I can use for co. I go have some cone free balea, but I'm a little scared of the shed in the long run. I did try co washing a couple of times before and I found that it didn't make my scalp as clean as I'd like it to be (I'm prone to dandruff, but neem oil scalp massages helped a lot with it and now I don't get it anymore)

Nadine <3
June 29th, 2016, 02:19 PM
Do you switch around were you place your buns, or do you always do them in the same place? Try and vary were it sits on your head everyday so you don't keep straining the hair in one spot.

lapushka
June 29th, 2016, 03:43 PM
Do you switch around were you place your buns, or do you always do them in the same place? Try and vary were it sits on your head everyday so you don't keep straining the hair in one spot.

I've been wearing my LWB each day every day for years in the same spot - I don't have breakage. I think it also depends on how tightly you bun. I do wear my hair loose at night. No tightness during the night!

Do you perhaps secure it at night in some way? Because securing it at night and then rolling around in your sleep and putting stress on the updo *can* cause breakage!

Anje
June 29th, 2016, 03:49 PM
Thank you, I think I'll give a shot to all of these, a month at a time to see how they go ♡

Anje, I'm not too sure about which affordable conditioner I can use for co. I go have some cone free balea, but I'm a little scared of the shed in the long run. I did try co washing a couple of times before and I found that it didn't make my scalp as clean as I'd like it to be (I'm prone to dandruff, but neem oil scalp massages helped a lot with it and now I don't get it anymore)

I'm not saying to switch to CO, but maybe that a light conditioner appropriate for that would be moisturizing for the top but would rinse clean so you didn't get an oily scalp. Where are you, and do you have any special requirements for products? I'll bet people can make product suggestions appropriate to your country.

Another thought: I personally hate washing upside-down, but if you were to condition and then rinse out upside-down, you could get conditioner in close to your scalp throughout your canopy without it ever going against your scalp. Say you alternate between conditioning that way and conditioning upright from ears or nape down as you normally do -- that's way more moisture to your canopy than you get without that conditioning.

school of fish
June 29th, 2016, 06:07 PM
Any chance you use a BBB as part of your routine? I discovered I was getting canopy breakage up by the scalp from using a BBB, and it took me several months to realize what was happening. I think I was only breaking a few hairs each time I used it, but I used it daily and it added up.

Or did you possibly switch to a different brush or comb around the time you started noticing the breakage? Just a thought :)

PixieP
June 29th, 2016, 06:25 PM
I'm not saying to switch to CO, but maybe that a light conditioner appropriate for that would be moisturizing for the top but would rinse clean so you didn't get an oily scalp. Where are you, and do you have any special requirements for products? I'll bet people can make product suggestions appropriate to your country.

Another thought: I personally hate washing upside-down, but if you were to condition and then rinse out upside-down, you could get conditioner in close to your scalp throughout your canopy without it ever going against your scalp. Say you alternate between conditioning that way and conditioning upright from ears or nape down as you normally do -- that's way more moisture to your canopy than you get without that conditioning.

I feel ya; I hate it too. But I don't have a choice, my skin is super-sensitive to water, I often get a rash that itches and burns and feels like someone poured acid on my skin. So I shower as little as possible, no more than once a week (+ washing with a cloth if armpits gets smelly ofc). But my hair cannot go that long without washing, so then I have to do the upside-down. The bonus is of course that my canopy layer also gets conditioner without greasy scalp.

spidermom
June 29th, 2016, 07:01 PM
I usually condition with my hair falling toward my feet because then I can use conditioner on most of my canopy without getting it on my scalp.

sumidha
June 29th, 2016, 07:11 PM
After I've put conditioner in the length of my hair I'll take my still conditioner-y hands and run them over the top of my head, not enough conditioner to actually penetrate down to the scalp or saturate the hair there, but enough to hit just the top layer of hair, the canopy, with some conditioner.

lithostoic
June 29th, 2016, 07:58 PM
I have oily hair and I cowash no problem. In fact I just did it a few minutes ago.

Ana H.
June 29th, 2016, 08:24 PM
I think you could just condition from the ears up before you shampoo instead of after. Then wash your hair and condition from the ears down after you shampoo. I know some people have had success with conditioning first and shampooing second. It might be too drying for the length of the hair but for the scalp, especially if itís prone to greasiness, I think it would be good. I know it adds an extra step but it might be worth it.

*Disclaimer: Iíve spent a lot of time learning about hair but only for the last year. Iím new on the forum so donít listen to me if the experienced long haired people disagree with my suggestion.*

Zebra Fish
June 30th, 2016, 01:53 AM
Anje, I'm not too sure about which affordable conditioner I can use for co. I go have some cone free balea, but I'm a little scared of the shed in the long run. I did try co washing a couple of times before and I found that it didn't make my scalp as clean as I'd like it to be (I'm prone to dandruff, but neem oil scalp massages helped a lot with it and now I don't get it anymore)

If you have balea, guess you have access to dm and you could try Alverde (it's their "natural" product line). The sensitive line (greenish blue or blue, not sure) has a very light/fluent conditioner. I use it when washing out henna. Although, I also can't co-wash, I shed like crazy same as if I oil my scalp. You might try some kind of gente shampoo like rye flour shampoo (http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/02/testing-diy-shampoos-rye-flour.html)? As you can mix in whatever you want for the scalp (other than rye). I would put in few drops of panthenol and nettle tonic.

I do oil and co-wash during summer, as I'm in sea almost every day, but trying to avoid first 10cm near scalp. Some of the conditioner always washes over scalp and is enoguh for me. Also, hate washing upside-donw. Shed like crazy that way, I do it only when I wash henna.

parkmikii
June 30th, 2016, 04:54 AM
Do you switch around were you place your buns, or do you always do them in the same place? Try and vary were it sits on your head everyday so you don't keep straining the hair in one spot.


I've been wearing my LWB each day every day for years in the same spot - I don't have breakage. I think it also depends on how tightly you bun. I do wear my hair loose at night. No tightness during the night!

Do you perhaps secure it at night in some way? Because securing it at night and then rolling around in your sleep and putting stress on the updo *can* cause breakage!

I mostly wear the nautilus because it's the only thing that holds properly for the whole day, I'll try switching the bun placement too. Nope, at night I only wrap the braid around mt arm and tuck it in the bonnet.


I'm not saying to switch to CO, but maybe that a light conditioner appropriate for that would be moisturizing for the top but would rinse clean so you didn't get an oily scalp. Where are you, and do you have any special requirements for products? I'll bet people can make product suggestions appropriate to your country.

Another thought: I personally hate washing upside-down, but if you were to condition and then rinse out upside-down, you could get conditioner in close to your scalp throughout your canopy without it ever going against your scalp. Say you alternate between conditioning that way and conditioning upright from ears or nape down as you normally do -- that's way more moisture to your canopy than you get without that conditioning.

I'm from Romania, no special requirements, though I do need a moisturizing conditioner or else my hair will get pretty frizzy (which is why I use double conditioner in a normal wash) the only thing close by is a DM store and the usual drugstores that have wash and go, head and shoulders and such. That's a neat idea, I do have to wash upside down for the scalp washes, so I'll try putting a little conditioner at the ends and then rinse it out.

parkmikii
June 30th, 2016, 04:58 AM
I usually condition with my hair falling toward my feet because then I can use conditioner on most of my canopy without getting it on my scalp.


After I've put conditioner in the length of my hair I'll take my still conditioner-y hands and run them over the top of my head, not enough conditioner to actually penetrate down to the scalp or saturate the hair there, but enough to hit just the top layer of hair, the canopy, with some conditioner.


I think you could just condition from the ears up before you shampoo instead of after. Then wash your hair and condition from the ears down after you shampoo. I know some people have had success with conditioning first and shampooing second. It might be too drying for the length of the hair but for the scalp, especially if it’s prone to greasiness, I think it would be good. I know it adds an extra step but it might be worth it.

*Disclaimer: I’ve spent a lot of time learning about hair but only for the last year. I’m new on the forum so don’t listen to me if the experienced long haired people disagree with my suggestion.*

Thank you for the suggestions, I'll try adding some conditioner after the scalp washes.


If you have balea, guess you have access to dm and you could try Alverde (it's their "natural" product line). The sensitive line (greenish blue or blue, not sure) has a very light/fluent conditioner. I use it when washing out henna. Although, I also can't co-wash, I shed like crazy same as if I oil my scalp. You might try some kind of gente shampoo like rye flour shampoo (http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/02/testing-diy-shampoos-rye-flour.html)? As you can mix in whatever you want for the scalp (other than rye). I would put in few drops of panthenol and nettle tonic.

I do oil and co-wash during summer, as I'm in sea almost every day, but trying to avoid first 10cm near scalp. Some of the conditioner always washes over scalp and is enoguh for me. Also, hate washing upside-donw. Shed like crazy that way, I do it only when I wash henna.

Yes, I do have access to a dm store, I'll have a look at the Alverde products next time I'll pass by there. Thank you for the rye flour shampoo recipe, I'll research more about it :)

lapushka
June 30th, 2016, 05:10 AM
I mostly wear the nautilus because it's the only thing that holds properly for the whole day, I'll try switching the bun placement too. Nope, at night I only wrap the braid around mt arm and tuck it in the bonnet.

Hmm, thought that might have been it if you perhaps wore a tight style at night and moved around loads...

It's a mystery, isn't it?

Maybe it *is* new growth. Sometimes it's really hard to tell!

Beachbabydara
June 30th, 2016, 07:28 AM
-when I go to bed I always wear either a satin scarf or a satin bonnet[/QUOTE]

Hi, I was wondering about your use of a scarf or a satin bonnet... I have a silk pillowcase to help with hair health (I am prone to split ends), but with the length of my hair, it is hard to know if it is helping the ends. I have never thought of wearing a bonnet or scarf. It really might help. Can you tell me a bit more about the type of bonnet or scarf you use and how you use it? Thanks!