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Ana H.
June 28th, 2016, 08:03 PM
Hello, my name is Ana and I'm new here. 😊

My hair started acting crazy the last couple of weeks and I need help to figure out what's causing it and how to fix it.

I think I made one too many changes in my routine and now it's freaking out and SO dry and breaking. First it was mushy and stretchy yet dry at the same time. So I did a gelatin treatment and that helped for about a day. Then I left conditioner in it over night and that helped for a day too and then back to being dry. I tried clarifying too. Now it's not really stretchy anymore but it still is so so dry. I switched back to my old routine and my hair felt so much better for the rest of that day but now it's day two it's back to being very dry.

I've thought maybe it's protein overload but then I did a few strand tests and it either stretched and stayed stretched or stretched and broke. Plus the gelatin helped a lot (albeit temporarily). I'm scared cause my hair is starting to break. Admittedly it's only a few hairs a day but I didn't have any breakage before. I don't heat style and haven't for three years. My hair is 2a/2b and waist length. Completely virgin hair never been colored or chemically treated. Any advice? What is causing this? How do I fix it?

Also, can hair suddenly become more porous? When I first learned about porosity I decided my hair was probably low porosity. But now the strands feel bumpy and weird and my hair is drying faster too.

Here's the routine I had when my hair still loved me:

—Twice a week wash with:
MopTop Gentle Shampoo
Shea Moisture Superfruit Complex conditioner
– Once a week Shikakai and Amla mask
– Oiling as needed, always on damp hair.
— Note: I had a Sprite water filter

Changes I made:

— Twice a week wash:
Waterman's GrowMe Shampoo
Shea Moisture Fruit Fusion Weightless Mask
— Everything else the same except no longer using the filter due to moving

Anyway, to anyone who read this entire post, I sincerely thank you.

Ana H.
June 28th, 2016, 08:10 PM
Ingredients in products my hair loves:

MopTop Gentle Shampoo:

Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract,
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate (from Cocoanut),
Cocamidopropyl Betaine,
Cocamide MEA,
Glycol Distearate,
Steareth-4,
Glycerin(Vegetable),
Hydroxypropyltrimonium Honey,
Silk Amino Acids,
Hypnea Musciformis (Red Alga) Extract,
Gelidiela Acerosa (Red Seaweed) Extract,
Sargassum Filipendula (Brown Alga) Extract,
Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract,
Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract,
Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract,
Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E),
Panthenol,
Sorbitol,
Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride,
Polyquaternium-10,
Fragrance (phthalate free),
Phenoxyethanol,
Ethylhexylglycerin,
Sorbic Acid,
Sodium Chloride,
Citric Acid.

Superfruit Complex 10-in-1 Conditioner:

Water, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter*,* Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil*,* Stearyl Alcohol,* Cetyl Alcohol,* Behentrimonium Chloride, Hydroxyethylcellulose,* Panthenol,* Biotin,* Glycerin,* Sclerocarya Birrea Seed Oil, Fragrance (Essential Oil Blend), Tocopherol,* Rubus Idaeus (Raspberry) Fruit Extract,* Lycium Barbarum Fruit Extract,* Euterpe Oleracea Fruit Extract,* Psidium Guajava Fruit Extract,* Hydrolyzed Rice Protein,* Cinnamidopropyltrimonium Chloride,* Caprylhydroxamic Acid,* Caprylyl Glycol,* Sodium Citrate,* Citric Acid,* Ipomoea Batatas Extract

-----

Ingredients in the products I was using when the problem started…

Waterman’s Grow Me Shampoo:

Aqua (Water) , Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Chloride, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Acrylates Copolymer, Phenoxyethanol, Polyquaternium-10, PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate, Citric Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Hydrolyzed Lupine Protein, Sodium Hydroxide, Argania spinosa (Argan)Kernel Oil, Allantoin, PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Niacinamide , Caffeine, Sodium Starch Octenyl Succinate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Maltodextrin, Styrene/VP Copolymer, Calcium Pantothenate, Ethylhexylglycerin, Sodium Benzoate, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate, Glycerin, Tocopheryl Acetate, Pyridoxine HCL, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Magnesium Nitrate, Magnesium Chloride, Biotin, Silica, Sorbic Acid, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Potassium Sorbate

Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Masque:

Water, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Fruit Juice, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter*, Capric/Caprylic Triglycerides, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Cetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Fragrance (Essential Oil Blend), Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Glyceryl Caprylate, Glycerin (Vegetable), Litchi Chinensis (Lychee) Fruit Extract, Hylocereus Undatus (Dragon Fruit) Fruit Extract, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract, Garcinia Livingstonei (African Mangosteen) Seed Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Mangifera Indica (Mango) Seed Butter, Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Psidium Guajava Fruit Extract, Myrciaria Dubia Fruit Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Panthenol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Glyceryl Undecylenate, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Fruit Extract

Tosca
June 28th, 2016, 08:24 PM
I'm not an expert on hair stuff as much as some other members of this forum, but perhaps the simplest thing would be to go back to your old routine.

As for the dryness, oils or oils with cones in them help my hair when it gets like that.

The filter probably has a lot to do with it. When I wash my hair at my sister's house (she has hard water) it goes all weird and sticky, like the shampoo isn't working properly. She recently got a filter and she reported that her hair has improved a lot

Ana H.
June 28th, 2016, 08:45 PM
Thanks so much for the input. :) Yes, I have already switched to my old routine but it's too early to tell if it's helping or not. I will try to use more oils and use filtered water too.

I decided to go silicone free a year or so ago but I've been seriously considering going back to cones. My hair never had any problems with them and actually responded quite well. I used them for years without any build up. I just kept reading that they were bad and dried out your hair so I stopped using them. But I'm not sure if I really believe that anymore. What is your favorite cone product?

Ana H.
June 28th, 2016, 08:52 PM
I'm just a little worried about the idea that the cones can make your hair feel really nice but actually be doing damage underneath. But then again is invisible damage really damage if it never catches up to you? If your hair is strong, beautiful, and soft and not breaking or falling out does it really matter? What is your take on it?

Anje
June 28th, 2016, 09:13 PM
Stretchy, mushy hair needs lots of protein, fast! You went the right direction with that one, but I'd keep with it. ApHogee's 2 step protein treatment has a great reputation, and the second step helps replace moisture, which you frequently need following protein.

Did you recently bleach or perm your hair or something? Suddenly getting mushy hair usually is precipitated some sort of chemical treatment.

Sprite water filter shouldn't hurt anything. I'm wondering if the shikakai is too harsh for you. You oil heavily before you use that, right?

Garnetgem
June 28th, 2016, 09:18 PM
I went cone free for a couple of years and my hair was crunchy and tangle as a result it also shed often..now i switched back to cones and my hair has improved so much as a result,i just clarify once a month and hair is soft and manageable i no longer use conditioner either as its soft without it..cone free is not for everyone one i suppose..i must add i have very hard water here too but it seems the cone free were doing more harm than the water..

other members will most likely reply later and will have much more experience and knowledge to help you more..by the way welcome :)

as mentioned protein may help i do hope you get the answers soon.

Tosca
June 28th, 2016, 09:36 PM
I've used cones all my life and I have never had any problems. I think it depends on your hair. Some hair likes them, other hair doesn't.

lapushka
June 29th, 2016, 07:11 AM
I think I made one too many changes in my routine and now it's freaking out and SO dry and breaking. First it was mushy and stretchy yet dry at the same time. So I did a gelatin treatment and that helped for about a day. Then I left conditioner in it over night and that helped for a day too and then back to being dry. I tried clarifying too. Now it's not really stretchy anymore but it still is so so dry. I switched back to my old routine and my hair felt so much better for the rest of that day but now it's day two it's back to being very dry.

I've thought maybe it's protein overload but then I did a few strand tests and it either stretched and stayed stretched or stretched and broke. Plus the gelatin helped a lot (albeit temporarily). I'm scared cause my hair is starting to break. Admittedly it's only a few hairs a day but I didn't have any breakage before. I don't heat style and haven't for three years. My hair is 2a/2b and waist length. Completely virgin hair never been colored or chemically treated. Any advice? What is causing this? How do I fix it?

Also, can hair suddenly become more porous? When I first learned about porosity I decided my hair was probably low porosity. But now the strands feel bumpy and weird and my hair is drying faster too.

Here's the routine I had when my hair still loved me:

—Twice a week wash with:
MopTop Gentle Shampoo
Shea Moisture Superfruit Complex conditioner
– Once a week Shikakai and Amla mask
– Oiling as needed, always on damp hair.
— Note: I had a Sprite water filter

Changes I made:

— Twice a week wash:
Waterman's GrowMe Shampoo
Shea Moisture Fruit Fusion Weightless Mask
— Everything else the same except no longer using the filter due to moving

Anyway, to anyone who read this entire post, I sincerely thank you.

This I would not do, not ever. Just go with what's on the tub/tube/bottle and stick to the time that's on there.

You might need to clarify-wash with a sulfate shampoo. That usually solves *a lot* of issues. Then I'd go with what Anje said, a good protein treatment. I'd look into the Redken line. They do awesome protein treatments. Aphogee can be harsh on you!

And welcome, BTW! :D

Ana H.
June 29th, 2016, 05:20 PM
No, I've never colored, bleached or chemically treated my hair. I haven't used any heat on it in 3 years. Which is why I'm so confused by my hair acting this way. Does it still need protein even if it's only stretchy when wet? And feels very dry when it's not wet?

Perhaps you're right about the Shikakai being to harsh. I first started using it about two years ago when I was experiencing some hair loss due to my illness. It really helped but I had to stop using it when I went through another period of being too ill to do almost anything.

I started using it again about 6 or 7 months ago and noticed it was making my hair dry. So I started mixing it with conditioner and oil and only using it on my scalp. I don't usually oil beforehand but like I said I mix it with conditioner and oil. I also usually end up leaving it on longer than I should/intend. Sometimes a whole hour. Last time I didn't have the conditioner I like on hand so I just mixed it with oil and I noticed a lot more shedding than normal. I might try taking a break from it and seeing if the dryness improves.

By the way, you guys are all so nice! I'm so grateful for your input. 😊

Ana H.
June 29th, 2016, 05:23 PM
@ Garnetjem

Interesting! I'm glad cones aren't evil for everyone. I would like to go back to using them. You mentioned you don't use conditioner... How do you get comes in your routine? Do you use a silicone serum or leave in?

Anje
June 29th, 2016, 05:29 PM
If I were you, I'd ditch the shikakai entirely. That stuff is pretty harshly cleansing, and if it was making your hair dry and you just started it several months ago, it might be a culprit. Traditionally, you oil your hair HEAVILY a few hours before using it, to keep it from being totally stripping.

Hair shouldn't be particularly stretchy. Yes, it should stretch a little when wet, but if you're noticing that it seems stretchy, it's too much. Do a protein treatment, follow it up with a moisture treatment. The protein will help the hair get more moisturized as well as not be stretchy, and the moisture will help your hair not be stiff from the protein. You'll probably have to repeat that on a fairly regular basis -- if you need protein it's usually not a one-and-done situation.

At this point, I wouldn't worry terribly either way about silicones. They're useful for a lot of people, and they're usually not that big a source of trouble. My hair isn't great with some of them (it tends to get dry and tangly if I use them much), but that's not really typical. Even I don't have much issue with them in a regular conditioner, but I don't care for the effects I get about day 3 after using serum. Concentrate on getting the protein-moisture situation under control for the moment. (From another site, I really like the descriptions this has for hair that needs protein vs moisture. Yes, the site is geared toward 4-texture hair, but it holds true for all hair. http://blackbeautyblackhair86911.yuku.com/topic/511/t/Hair-Breakage-and-Shedding-101.html#.V3RMfHUrL0o )

Ana H.
June 29th, 2016, 05:33 PM
@Lapushka

I've never left conditioner in that long before... I just did it because the dryness was so bad. But I think you're onto something. I definitely tend to leave products and treatments on longer (sometimes a lot longer) than indicated on the packaging. I guess in the hopes that I'll get even better results. But I think that's the faulty "more is more" logic. Thank you for pointing that out to me. That's helpful.

Would you say I should clarify again with a sulfate shampoo even if I already used a sulfate free clarifying shampoo and ACV?

Thanks again everyone! You're all so helpful and nice!

Ana H.
June 29th, 2016, 05:47 PM
Wow. Thank you Anje. I never heard that before but it makes total sense. Everything I read said it was a gentle cleanser not at all harsh. But people say stuff like that all the time about anything that's natural. Natural automatically equals gentle and safe to some people just like synthetic equals toxic to them.

I definitely found it to be drying so I limited it to my scalp and used less but I think I'm going to just skip it altogether. Amla isn't that harsh is it? Maybe that's what was helping so much in the first place and not the Shikakai.

I will try to get my hands on some Aphogee protein treatment.

Garnetgem
June 29th, 2016, 07:21 PM
As i said i did go cone free but it didn't work out my hair or scalp was not happy...i now use a shampoo with cones and don't use a conditioner as it made my hair like Velcro and very tangly...i have started an oil treatment using olive oil which works well and i don't have problems with it i tried protein conditioner in the past year and my hair started breaking off at the ends so i gave it up moisturizing conditioner was not much better either it still tangled a lot but since i don't use conditioner its improved in condition.

Ana H.
June 29th, 2016, 09:15 PM
Thanks Garnetgem. And everyone =)

Ana H.
June 30th, 2016, 06:24 PM
Anje? Sorry to bug you. One last question... I just stopped by Sally's and picked up a couple packets of ApHogees two step protein treatment.

The directions say "for professional use only!". I'm definitely a confident DIYer but for some reason this scared me. Is it something that can destroy your hair if you do it wrong?

It also doesn't say how long to leave it in. It does say to dry it with a dryer. So I assume you just leave it in until it dries completely. Is that correct? I don't want to take any chances.

If for some odd reason it happens to be too much protein for my hair will it do irreversible damage? Or is it something that you can correct by adding even more moisture and stopping all protein.

TIA :)

Anyone else out there who has had success with this protien treatment?

Ana H.
June 30th, 2016, 06:48 PM
Oops! Sorry! Thanks in advance.* I hadn't seen the text speak post. I don't normally use abbreviations anyway.

Ana H.
July 1st, 2016, 06:39 PM
Okay, So, I watched some YouTube videos and worked up the courage to try it. I followed the instructions to a T. My hair feels nice, shiny and strong! I’m happy with the results! :) However the tips of ends are still a little bit crispy. I made sure rinse well and use the second step balancing conditioner. Should I try to deep condition them or just add a leave-in? Thanks! After this Ill leave you all alone.:wink:

truepeacenik
July 1st, 2016, 10:11 PM
Professional use on a product that neither adds nor subtracts color or curl, is basically a pointless note.

As for the tips, a drop, literally a drop, of oil rubbed between your palms should take care of that overnight.

Anje
July 2nd, 2016, 09:05 AM
Anje? Sorry to bug you. One last question... I just stopped by Sally's and picked up a couple packets of ApHogees two step protein treatment.

The directions say "for professional use only!". I'm definitely a confident DIYer but for some reason this scared me. Is it something that can destroy your hair if you do it wrong?

It also doesn't say how long to leave it in. It does say to dry it with a dryer. So I assume you just leave it in until it dries completely. Is that correct? I don't want to take any chances.

If for some odd reason it happens to be too much protein for my hair will it do irreversible damage? Or is it something that you can correct by adding even more moisture and stopping all protein.

TIA :)

Anyone else out there who has had success with this protien treatment?

Sorry I didn't get back to you, but I'm glad you watched a video and worked out out. Sounds like it did a lot of good! If your ends are a little crispy, I'd simply try to balance it out with a moisturizing conditioner. I'd probably deep-condition, personally, as leave-ins never seemed to have much effect for me. (I have a link to a favorite moisture treatment recipe, the SMT, in my sig if you need one.)

Moisture seems to do the trick if you overdo it on protein. I hit some massive protein overload several years back and it took a while to figure out what was wrong. My hair was tangling and rough and felt hard. Once I did figure it out, it daily SMTs for maybe a week (and stopping the product that caused the issue) got my hair back to normal.

Ana H.
July 2nd, 2016, 12:39 PM
No worries! Thanks so much Anje! Does it count as a moisturizing conditioner if it has "hydrolyzed rice protein" as the 20th ingredient? It doesn't have any other protein and it's my understanding that once you get that far down on the lists the amount is negligible. Just want to make sure. :)

Thank you again! I'm so glad to have found this forum.

*Stella*
July 2nd, 2016, 01:38 PM
I follow Aphogee two step with a deep conditioner. The second step conditioner is designed to balance the pH, but isn't especially moisturising.

Ana H.
July 2nd, 2016, 02:12 PM
Thanks Stella that makes sense. I wasn’t sure if the second step was supposed to deep condition or not. I didn’t want to overdo it so I didn’t DC even though Step 2 didn’t feel particularly moisturizing. I think it would have worked even better if I deep conditioned right away.

Mya
July 2nd, 2016, 02:40 PM
— Everything else the same except no longer using the filter due to moving

This! Mineral buildup can really make hair drier.

Ana H.
July 2nd, 2016, 04:18 PM
Thanks Mya, I’m definitely going back to using filtered water. :)

Ana H.
July 8th, 2016, 01:35 PM
UPDATE: My hair feels normal again! I think the protein treatment with a little moisture after did the trick. I just want to thank everyone on here who gave suggestions. THANK YOU SO MUCH! I’m relieved!

I also want to ask another question, what can I do to keep the protein in my hair between the more intense treatments? All my products have some kind of protein or amino acids in them but not in the first few ingredients. Shampoo it’s 9th, conditioner it’s 17th, other conditioner it’s 14th etc. Is this enough?

I also have a thermal spray/UV protector that has hydrolyzed keratin #6 on the list plus amino acids further down… But I don’t heat style. I’m thinking I could just use it as a leave in since it does have conditioning ingredients as well. Thoughts anyone?

Anje
July 8th, 2016, 02:05 PM
Glad your hair feels better!

I'd look for a conditioner that has more than the normal amount of protein. Often, these are for "damaged hair" or are labelled as "reconstructing" conditioners. You might find it's too much to use every wash, and if so just switch off between that and your other conditioner. (Mane 'n' Tail is supposed to be rather heavy on the protein too, if I recall.) You still might find you need to do intensive treatments from time to time, though.

Ana H.
July 8th, 2016, 04:55 PM
Glad your hair feels better!

I'd look for a conditioner that has more than the normal amount of protein. Often, these are for "damaged hair" or are labelled as "reconstructing" conditioners. You might find it's too much to use every wash, and if so just switch off between that and your other conditioner. (Mane 'n' Tail is supposed to be rather heavy on the protein too, if I recall.) You still might find you need to do intensive treatments from time to time, though.

Thanks for the suggestions Anje. My hair loves you.;) Haha.

It’s weird that I could get so much damage from something as innocent as shikakai. The last three inches probably have some mechanical damage from back when I used to rip through it with a brush. EEK! But other than that my hair should be perfect. No heat, no chemicals, no dye, no baking soda, no sulfates etc.

Perhaps the problem is not external damage. Maybe the hair has just grown in weaker and thinner due to my illness so that it needs more protein than it used to? I don’t know. I’ve been sick for 4 years so most of the hair on my head was grown during the worst of the sickness.

Ana H.
July 8th, 2016, 05:12 PM
Hmm... The protein in the Mane N’ Tail conditioners I was able to find is listed after fragrance which is not much better than my current products. Unless Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine Lactate is a protein but a quick google search seemed to indicate it’s a surfactant. I’ll keep digging. :)

It looks like OGX has a keratin based line. Now that I think of it, I used to LOVE their collagen line. It must of been all the protein in it!

*Stella*
July 8th, 2016, 05:19 PM
I don't think more protein in your regular products will be the answer here. More isn't more when it comes to protein.
If your hair gets bad again repeat the Aphogee/deep moisturising treatment. Aphogee should stay in your hair for around 6 weeks

Ana H.
July 8th, 2016, 05:30 PM
I don't think more protein in your regular products will be the answer here. More isn't more when it comes to protein.
If your hair gets bad again repeat the Aphogee/deep moisturising treatment. Aphogee should stay in your hair for around 6 weeks

Okay, so you think ApHogee is enough... Is it because of the risk of overdoing it? Don’t you think I could try a conditioner a little more heavy on the protein and see if my hair likes it? And if it starts getting crunchy, just back off? I had read that you’re not supposed to repeat the ApHogee for six weeks, that's I was asking what to do during that time. Maybe it’s not necessary to do anything, like you say.

*Stella*
July 8th, 2016, 05:48 PM
Aphogee is as strong a protein reconstructor as there is out there, it really is 'the big guns'.
Protein treatments fill the gaps in your hair, ('evening out the porosity')if they are all already filled there is no need to keep layering on more protein based treatments

Ana H.
July 9th, 2016, 02:24 PM
Aphogee is as strong a protein reconstructor as there is out there, it really is 'the big guns'.
Protein treatments fill the gaps in your hair, ('evening out the porosity')if they are all already filled there is no need to keep layering on more protein based treatments

Got it... I’ll probably just see how my hair does and if it starts feeling mushy before the 6 weeks is up I’ll look into a lighter protein treatment. Otherwise, I’ll just keep using my normal products for now.

Wildcat Diva
July 10th, 2016, 03:10 AM
Here is a protein treatment that a lot of folks like in case you can't get your hands on your other product in a few weeks.

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html?m=1

Ana H.
July 10th, 2016, 07:18 PM
Thanks Wildcat Diva! I have some gelatin on hand so maybe I'll just do that if I find my hair needs it. :)

Ana H.
July 18th, 2016, 09:21 PM
Ugh!!! I washed my hair today and I felt the mushy/stretchiness returning. :( I’m so confused and a little upset, it’s only been 2 and a half weeks since I did the ApHogee protein treatment. What is wrong with my hair?!!! I went back to my old routine, ditched the shikakai and started using filtered water again and my hair felt normal for the next few washes. And now it’s acting up again!!

How could my hair be so damaged if it’s completely virgin? Maybe someone is bleaching my hair in my sleep. ;)I don’t know what to do since the ApHogee is supposed to last 6 weeks. Would it be too much protein to do a gelatin treatment? Should I switch to a protein rich conditioner? Is there a way of figuring out what the source of the damage is?

Ana H.
July 18th, 2016, 09:24 PM
Or maybe it’s just that the protein covering the cracks is wearing off? And not that there’s new damage? Maybe all those shikakai washes slowly stripped my hair and the friction of the paste chipped the cuticles?

One thing I did do differently this wash is oiling the ends with coconut oil two days before. It’s been a long time since I’ve used coconut oil and I definitely noticed that it dried out my ends but I’m not sure if that’s relevant to the mushy problem.

patchoulilove
July 18th, 2016, 10:42 PM
Have you considered chelating your hair to remove mineral buildup? Maybe someone with more experience in this area can chime in. Sometimes when clarifying doesn't work, chelating is mentioned especially in instances where water quality might be the culprit. Maybe worth a shot now that the rest of your hair routine is back to your usual products? A quick advanced search on the forum can point you in that direction if no one responds in time.

:blossom:
patchoulilove

Decoy24601
July 18th, 2016, 10:47 PM
I personally find that the more I oil my hair, the longer my hair stays wet, and the more prone it is to feeling "mushy". I think the "mushy" feeling is also a result of not being fully dry, not just lacking protein. That's just a guess though.

*Stella*
July 18th, 2016, 10:52 PM
Have you done the stretch test on a single wet strand to check the elasticity? If your hair is like chewing gum and stretches until it snaps it is very damaged and needs protein.

Ana H.
July 19th, 2016, 02:36 PM
Have you considered chelating your hair to remove mineral buildup? Maybe someone with more experience in this area can chime in. Sometimes when clarifying doesn't work, chelating is mentioned especially in instances where water quality might be the culprit. Maybe worth a shot now that the rest of your hair routine is back to your usual products? A quick advanced search on the forum can point you in that direction if no one responds in time.

:blossom:
patchoulilove

I have not. Mostly because I don’t have chelating shampoo and I am scared of alkaline DIY methods. Thank you for for the suggestion. I’m going to go search around LHC for more information on this.


I personally find that the more I oil my hair, the longer my hair stays wet, and the more prone it is to feeling "mushy". I think the "mushy" feeling is also a result of not being fully dry, not just lacking protein. That's just a guess though.

Hmm... Interesting. It’s actually only mushy when wet although it still feels like it might be stretchier than normal dry. The thing that makes me think it’s protein is that it’s the same type of mushiness I was struggling with before the protein treatment. The protein treatment completely got rid of that mushiness and it lasted 4 or 5 washes with zero mushiness before it returned. But you might be onto something with the oil. Maybe I’m locking in too much moisture.


Have you done the stretch test on a single wet strand to check the elasticity? If your hair is like chewing gum and stretches until it snaps it is very damaged and needs protein.

It stretches and breaks... But I’ve read that testing a single strand is not very accurate because any one strand will break under undue pressure. So, I try to go by the feeling of the hair instead. Either method, it seems like it needs more protein but I don’t understand why the ApHogee treatment didn’t last even 3 weeks! The biggest mystery though, is how virgin hair could need so much protein. What is causing the damage?

Ana H.
July 20th, 2016, 01:05 PM
Does anyone know if it's safe to do another protien treatment this soon? Or at least a gelatin treatment? I don't want to wait until it gets as bad as last time and starts breaking.

Anje
July 20th, 2016, 01:21 PM
I'm pretty sure protein wears off. (Mind, my hennaed hair really doesn't like protein, so it's not a thing I fiddle with a lot. Just something I learned a lot about when I discovered I had to avoid it!) If it's starting to feel like it needs more, I'd go ahead and do it.

Randomly, it might be worth considering henna as a possible additional treatment. People with damaged hair definitely find it strengthening. However, even with your dark brunette hair, it'll definitely show up as a red tint. Don't do it unless that appeals to you, but consider it if that does.

renia22
July 20th, 2016, 04:11 PM
I agree with others, try clarifying or chelating, and a regular drugstore conditioner, with silicones, before doing anything drastic. Sometimes after using natural methods for a while hair can get kind of funky, but it's amazing what run of the mill, "regular" drugstore products can do. Ultra swim shampoo is pretty good, I personally don't find that one to be drying, and it clarifies and chelates. If the protein is helping, maybe a drugstore conditioner with hydrolyzed protein would help. Finesse moisturizing has it, and it also has silicones. For other drugstore conditioners with silicones, lots of people around here also like Herbal Essences Hello Hydration, Herbal Essences Rose Hip Smooth collection, Dove, some of the ones from Pantene, Aussie 3 Minute Miracle (to name a few). You probably don't have to do anything fancy, just get something basic in the $4-5 range with good reviews. Good luck..

Ana H.
July 20th, 2016, 04:58 PM
Thanks Renia22, I’m thinking it’s probably not build up or hard water but I’m going to clarify anyway before doing the second protein treatment. It’s good to know about the swimmers shampoo. I think you’re definitely right about silicones being good. I reintroduced cones and my hair is loving it. It’s definitely reducing friction and giving me a lot of shine. Thanks for all the conditioner suggestions. =)

Ana H.
July 20th, 2016, 05:02 PM
I'm pretty sure protein wears off. (Mind, my hennaed hair really doesn't like protein, so it's not a thing I fiddle with a lot. Just something I learned a lot about when I discovered I had to avoid it!) If it's starting to feel like it needs more, I'd go ahead and do it.

Randomly, it might be worth considering henna as a possible additional treatment. People with damaged hair definitely find it strengthening. However, even with your dark brunette hair, it'll definitely show up as a red tint. Don't do it unless that appeals to you, but consider it if that does.

Thanks so much Anje you’re the best! I’m going to try more protein since I’m fairly certain that’s what it needs. I just needed a little reassurance that I could disobey the packaging instructions. =)

I’m still so confused about how my virgin hair could be acting so damaged!!! I wonder if it’s just grown in weaker because of my health problems.

Another thing I’ve wondered is whether pure oxygen can damage hair? The problem started right around the time that I finished doing hyperbaric oxygen therapy for my health problems. In case you’re not familiar, it’s a treatment where you breathe 100% oxygen in a pressurized chamber. I did 40 sessions of HBOT. It makes your hair and fingernails grow like crazy but perhaps the contact with pure oxygen can damage the hair? I’m not finding much in my google search. Except this quote about free radicals from an article on oxygen in skincare:

““It is impossible to infuse skin cells with oxygen from the outside. It cannot purify or moisturize the skin, although too much oxygen has been known to generate toxic oxygen radicals (free radicals) that damage skin.”” (https://www.futurederm.com/is-oxygen-good-or-bad-for-your-face/)

I’m actually not opposed to henna… My brother is a natural red head and we have the exact same skin tone so I think it would look good on me. As long as it was a natural looking shade. I’m not a fan of the purple-y dark red henna I’ve seen. I used to get red streaks in my hair when I was younger and spent a lot more time outside in the sun. I would love it if I could recreate those red highlights. I’ll have to think about it a lot first though. What are your thoughts on the idea that henna makes it impossible to condition your hair? (https://www.futurederm.com/daily-question-the-dark-scary-truth-about-henna/)

Thanks again!!

Ana H.
July 27th, 2016, 06:06 PM
I did another protein treatment, gelatin this time, and my hair feels great again! Thanks for the help guys!:) I guess my hair just needs more consistent protein to stay healthy.

ephemeri
July 27th, 2016, 06:29 PM
What are your thoughts on the idea that henna makes it impossible to condition your hair? (https://www.futurederm.com/daily-question-the-dark-scary-truth-about-henna/)


Oh I hope a henna expert chimes in to respond to this. I read that article and everything it said is basically opposite of what I have known and read about henna.
I feel like my hair is healthier since I've been using henna.

Obsidian
July 27th, 2016, 07:02 PM
Oh I hope a henna expert chimes in to respond to this. I read that article and everything it said is basically opposite of what I have known and read about henna.
I feel like my hair is healthier since I've been using henna.

That article sounds like hooey to me. I've only been using Henna a few months but my hair takes conditioning just fine, its not damaged and it doesn't have a "gunk" build up. Its stronger and healthier then ever.

There are members here who have used henna for decades with no issues, who have long strong hair. Of coarse there are some people whose hair simply doesn't like henna. For those people it can make the hair dry and rough, repeated deep conditioning will help it feel better.

Ana H.
July 27th, 2016, 07:36 PM
Thanks to both of you! I’ve been hoping somebody would see that question... That article is the main thing that’s made me hesitant about henna. But I’ve been doing a LOT of research on henna and have not been able to find anyone else saying what Nicki is saying. I’ve come up with lots and lots of anecdotal evidence about henna’s amazing benefits for hair and only a few anecdotes about dryness/damage caused by henna. That’s it, no studies or scientific papers or anything. (Which is fine, I believe anecdotal evidence is still real evidence and things that work have always worked even before they were “proven”)

I really respect the FutureDerm blog though and find it really strange for her to come on so strong against a cosmetic ingredient. She’s usually pretty balanced and her articles are often backed up by scientific studies. I wonder if she or someone she knows had a negative experience with henna. Can anyone of a science-y persuasion chime in about her sources for the article?

Perhaps I should post my henna questions in a new thread? I have quite a few.