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lapushka
June 26th, 2016, 02:53 PM
What are they? Who needs them. Are eggs really effective? A few useful facts!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4RbD6hrpgQ

PixieP
June 26th, 2016, 06:13 PM
Reminder to self to watch this when I get to my laptop

Bergelmir
June 26th, 2016, 07:14 PM
Hydrolized proteins (done by acids) is simply some sort of "splitted apart" proteins resulting into shorter or even completly removed bonds between the amino acids. The proteins in eggs is naturally to big in order to penetrate the cuticle. However, the video is not precise on this matter and is completly ignoring the enzymes found in egg yolk. Enzymes are far more powerful than any amino acids, without enzymes there will be no life and it's critical in order to "create" a new chicken inside a egg. Fresh egg yolk got enzymes and enzymes are powerful catalysts able to break down or even build up a lot of bonds, even some bonds or walls from the hairs. So, while egg white is clearly unable to be useful fresh egg yolk is containing enzymes able to remove certain bonds, in this case egg yolk may have some minor effects on the hairs. There is other ways in order to get "free amino acids": The use of fermented proteins, it could be found inside a usual soy sauce and many other natural food. The trick is simply to use fermented proteins and not raw proteins. Certain acids are useful in order to supply the enzymes with a fitting milieu in order to detach or attach proteins, for example amla and much more. In this case, free amino acids combined with certain acids may lead to the best effects possible. Hydrolized proteins is some industrial way of selling actually cheap proteins for big cash, but it's not the only way on how to become free amino acids, thanks to the germs and its enzymes found in nature. Enzymes are able to break down and even rebuild amino acids, so it's indeed powerful and the chemical industry is loving it. So i think without adding sufficient enzymes a real rebuild of the hair is impossible and those enzymes are very sensitive and can not be found inside a shampoo, they need to be gotten from fresh natural ressources (in ayurveda recipes mangos are used, maybe it can be useful but it have to be fresh). I think, the whole "hydrolized protein matter" should be taken with a grain of salt and it's unclear if there is any lasting effects on the hairs but if so, i certainly would only trust it when there is sufficient enzymes added and they will need some time to work, so a hair mask for at least 30 min would be critical.

Besides, the # on the list of ingridients doesn't truly mean much because the first ingridients could be 90% water, the second only 9% what else... and there is almost nothing left for the proteins in term it's already on position #3, so i just want to make aware that such statements can easely fool customers and are actually of pretty low value. Every soy sauce could have a higher amount of amino acids. But certainly the main issue is that the industry is not offering any real transparency, so a customer can only guess (with critically low accuracy) on how much of certain substances has been used. Finally, everyone simply may use what works best for them but it will never hurt to have some critical and realistic mind.

PixieP
June 27th, 2016, 06:10 AM
Oh I love her lipstick. Good informative video!

lapushka
June 27th, 2016, 06:29 AM
Hydrolized proteins (done by acids) is simply some sort of "splitted apart" proteins resulting into shorter or even completly removed bonds between the amino acids. The proteins in eggs is naturally to big in order to penetrate the cuticle. However, the video is not precise on this matter and is completly ignoring the enzymes found in egg yolk. Enzymes are far more powerful than any amino acids, without enzymes there will be no life and it's critical in order to "create" a new chicken inside a egg.

In all honesty, it was only about "proteins", though. ;)

Very interesting, about the enzymes. Thanks!

Doesn't *every* protein treatment, even the strongest ones, contain water as the first ingredient? I think it about goes for every hair product out there. Just the way it is.

adrenaline
June 27th, 2016, 07:03 AM
Besides, the # on the list of ingridients doesn't truly mean much because the first ingridients could be 90% water, the second only 9% what else... and there is almost nothing left for the proteins in term it's already on position #3, so i just want to make aware that such statements can easely fool customers and are actually of pretty low value. Every soy sauce could have a higher amount of amino acids. But certainly the main issue is that the industry is not offering any real transparency, so a customer can only guess (with critically low accuracy) on how much of certain substances has been used. Finally, everyone simply may use what works best for them but it will never hurt to have some critical and realistic mind.

Good point! Also what you said about the enzymes. It makes sense and didn't come to my mind. Anyway, i will give it a try, ordered some hydrolyzed keratin and silk protein :o I didn't try protein treatments so far. Maybe it's worth it, my hair tends to split easily.

Silverbleed
June 27th, 2016, 08:26 AM
Sooo... yoghurt, eggs, all that won't do anything? Or just a little bit? I'm a little confused here on how I can actually use proteins without having to use products from the store. Because I'd really want that, unless I'm able to find a treatment I'm comfortable with but I barely know where to start looking. I'd appreciate some help on it c:

lapushka
June 27th, 2016, 08:30 AM
Sooo... yoghurt, eggs, all that won't do anything? Or just a little bit? I'm a little confused here on how I can actually use proteins without having to use products from the store. Because I'd really want that, unless I'm able to find a treatment I'm comfortable with but I barely know where to start looking. I'd appreciate some help on it c:

meteor repeats it so often on this forum. Gelatine packs. Those proteins are small enough to penetrate. Maybe she can come explain more about it? I hope she jumps in here.

Silverbleed
June 27th, 2016, 08:42 AM
meteor repeats it so often on this forum. Gelatine packs. Those proteins are small enough to penetrate. Maybe she can come explain more about it? I hope she jumps in here.

This is the first time I hear about gelatine for your hair. I hope she jumps in too, I'd love to know more :hmm: I think my hair could use some.

lapushka
June 27th, 2016, 08:45 AM
This is the first time I hear about gelatine for your hair. I hope she jumps in too, I'd love to know more :hmm: I think my hair could use some.

She's been posting about it so much (which I like!). :) Maybe you've been reading the wrong threads. ;) :p

Silverbleed
June 27th, 2016, 08:50 AM
She's been posting about it so much (which I like!). :) Maybe you've been reading the wrong threads. ;) :p

I'm definitely going to use the search option in my next break, hopefully I'll find some info she shared in the past so I could maybe go shopping soon. If else I'll just have to wait and be patient.... xD shudder:

lapushka
June 27th, 2016, 12:19 PM
Here you go (meteor gives a response in this thread as well):
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=109968

meteor
June 27th, 2016, 02:45 PM
Oops, sorry I'm replying so late. :oops:

Fermentation does break down proteins, so some food items might have proteins broken down into small enough parts to be able to penetrate into hair... but it's impossible to know in advance, without knowing how small the broken up proteins are or how porous the hair is, etc... so it's going to be trial and error, I'm afraid. :flower:

Amino acids on ingredients lists are usually the smallest hydrolyzed proteins, so they typically penetrate more easily but also wash out more easily. I'd use these in leave-in products. Small hydrolyzed proteins like keratin and silk can probably work for a wide range of hair types. Bigger hydrolyzed proteins are good for very damaged hair but even the largest proteins, even if they don't necessarily penetrate, can still sit on top and add some rigidity, some protective film to hair that's too soft. However, they can also add build-up, making hair tangly, dry, coated. It's all trial and error. :flower:

Some commercial hair products, e.g. from the Joico range, do share their protein sizes in marketing information, but most hair products don't.

Some popular commercial protein hair products are Aphogee 2-Step, Redken Extreme, Joico K-Pak Reconstruct, etc.

Some strong protein treatments can have protein at #2 on the ingredients list, after water. For example, Aphogee 2-Step Protein Treatment or Mega-Tek Rebuilder by EQyss (Pet - Skin - Coat - Paws), which is similar to Ovation Cell Therapy.

Some good articles on protein:
Protein 101: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html
More about protein: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html
Vegetarian-friendly protein products: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2016/05/vegetarian-friendly-protein-treatments.html

Oh yes! I love gelatin for hair. :agree:
I recommend checking out recipes on the Science-y Hair Blog: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html
Personally, I do this:

1 packet of Knox gelatin (= 2 1/2 teaspoons of gelatin) + a few tablespoons of hot water (just enough to dissolve the gelatin) + 1/4 to 1/2 cup conditioner + 1 tablespoon of honey + 1 teaspoon of oil(s)

I often double the recipe, just because of length of hair. I add honey and oil in order to make the mix more moisturizing, but they aren't necessary. Protein treatments should be followed by moisturizing treatments, but adding honey/oil to the mix allows me to eliminate this extra step. ;)

Obviously, it's not for vegans, sorry :flower:, but there are alternatives: beer (flat, after letting alcohol evaporate), more on this here: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/04/what-cookin-vegetarian-protein.html; and maybe soy sauce (if you can find the kinds that aren't salty maybe? :hmm:)
Ovo-lacto vegetarians could try kefir or yogurt or sour cream (for dry hair)? I love yogurt actually, and I find it pretty nice on scalp, too. It's used in many Ayurvedic recipes, it's pretty good base for home-made masks/conditioners for people who don't want to use standard hair products for whatever reason.

Also, one can buy liquid proteins and add them to conditioners, masks, etc...
Haartraum has a pretty nice recipe of protein DIY leave-in spray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6wy25IVdLo
The video is in German, but here's the recipe in English:
- 30 ml of rosewater
- 30 drops of silk protein
- 15 drops of keratin protein
One needs to experiment with ratios and ingredients to find what works best for your hair, of course. ;)

Silverbleed
June 27th, 2016, 04:21 PM
meteor thank you soooo much!!! <3 :flower: Would this product (http://www.detuinen.nl/16049-jacob-hooy-gelatine-poeder.html) be okay as well? I don't believe Knox is sold here except online, and it would take weeks to ship. This product I can buy tomorrow. All the other things I've found weren't powder or have added flavour.

If that product is okay, I am absolutely going to get some tomorrow. I really hope it works out for my hair, but I really would like to try. I do have one type of protein leave in product, but it's giving very (too) subtle results. My hair seems to like it, however.

lapushka
June 27th, 2016, 04:38 PM
I'm not sure if meteor can read Dutch, Silverbleed. ;) It's a plain gelatine powder, it should be fine, IMMHO.

meteor
June 27th, 2016, 04:54 PM
^ Oh yes, absolutely! :agree: Gelatin is gelatin, the source doesn't matter, IMHO. :flower: Just make sure you dissolve it properly before application. ;)

By the way, Science-y's recipes (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html) use both grams and tsp/tbsp measurements, so it will be easy to use the gelatin you've linked anyway. I'd start with lower gelatin-to-water/conditioner/additives ratio and then increase gelatin ratio, if your hair responds well to it, but the effect seems too subtle.

Just FIY: I heard from a few people that gelatin mask works better for them if you use only water + gelatin on cleansed hair and then let it solidify completely in hair before rinsing out (without touching first) and following up with moisturizing treatment (Aphogee 2-Step uses the same instructions (http://aphogee.com/faq/)for better bonding of proteins, by the way), but personally, I haven't done it this way, because it would take too long.

vampyyri
June 27th, 2016, 06:23 PM
Huh... interesting. My serum has a lot of hydrolyzed proteins in it.

CHI Silk Infusion:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Cyclotetrasiloxane, Dimethiconol, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Phenoxyethanol, Hydrolyzed Silk, Hydrolyzed Corn Protein, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Fragrance (Parfum), Benzyl Benzoate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Hexyl Cinnamal, Citronellol, Coumarin, Linalool, Geraniol.

It's no wonder why when my hair is being unruly, I could apply this several times in a row and it would just keep absorbing... now it makes sense. :doh: Not sure what the rest of that mumbo-jumbo is, but... :shrug: Now I'm curious, going to google all the things!

Adorkable One
June 27th, 2016, 11:07 PM
Huh... interesting. My serum has a lot of hydrolyzed proteins in it.

CHI Silk Infusion:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Cyclotetrasiloxane, Dimethiconol, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Phenoxyethanol, Hydrolyzed Silk, Hydrolyzed Corn Protein, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Fragrance (Parfum), Benzyl Benzoate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Hexyl Cinnamal, Citronellol, Coumarin, Linalool, Geraniol.

It's no wonder why when my hair is being unruly, I could apply this several times in a row and it would just keep absorbing... now it makes sense. :doh: Not sure what the rest of that mumbo-jumbo is, but... :shrug: Now I'm curious, going to google all the things!

YES! I used to use Chi before all my hair dying adventures, and it made my hair feel terrible. I had no idea it had all the protein in it, (was a hair noob back then) no wonder! My virgin hair does not take protein well at all, and it took trying several different reconstructors to realize I was buying the wrong stuff. I had sworn off Chi products because they just didn't work back then. However these days, maybe they'll actually be good! Lol. Now my hair loves protein.

lapushka
June 28th, 2016, 04:30 AM
CHI Silk Infusion:

Cyclopentasiloxane, Cyclotetrasiloxane, Dimethiconol, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Phenoxyethanol, Hydrolyzed Silk, Hydrolyzed Corn Protein, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Fragrance (Parfum), Benzyl Benzoate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Hydroxyisohexyl 3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Hexyl Cinnamal, Citronellol, Coumarin, Linalool, Geraniol.

Those first 3 are silicones.

I have the CHI serum as well (haven't used it in a while) and even though my hair is protein sensitive, it has never reacted to it. :shrug: So I'm sure the silicones have a bigger "say" in the formula. ;)

vampyyri
June 28th, 2016, 07:57 AM
Those first 3 are silicones.

I have the CHI serum as well (haven't used it in a while) and even though my hair is protein sensitive, it has never reacted to it. :shrug: So I'm sure the silicones have a bigger "say" in the formula. ;)

That they do, it gives my hair just the extra bit of slip/shine that I'm always chasing after. It's a love-hate relationship with it depending on the day and my hair's mood (as strange as that sounds, but I know you guys understand). Some days it loves it, and other days it can't be bothered. Funny how temperamental hair can be, huh?