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View Full Version : lessons: henna, indigo, perms, bleach, silver dye.



twilight
May 21st, 2016, 05:35 PM
Hi! It's been a long time (and a lot of hair stuff) since I hung around here but I learned some interesting things recently and thought I would share.

((whoa... super old avatar and signature! i am neither brunette nor pregnant. eventually i'll update those...))

Mini-background:
a few weeks ago i had BSL henna red hair. for mother's day, my DH made me an appointment at a salon for a trim (it had been 2 years or so) and... a color. i hesitated. we discussed. i googled. finally, of all the crazy a$s ideas i could come up with, he and i agreed that beautiful silvery-grey hair would be awesome. :bigeyes:

(note: i'm not a noob. i know about hair, dyes, chemistry, herbs, and all the no-nos and horror stories out there when it comes to color changes, so i didn't get into this blind. i have successfully removed indigo before using Effasol.)

so i got to the salon--which was in a mall since it was sunday :uhh:-- and after explaining how henna is not evil/metallic salts/etc and signing a waiver in case all my hair falls out, told her what i wanted to do. she just looked at me and said "i can't do that." LOL. at least she was honest. so rather than leave the salon with nothing, we decided to go for a nice body wave perm and a light trim.

that's how i learned you cannot perm over henna.

apparently the henna does such a beautiful job filling in the cuticle and coating it with magic that my perm failed to penetrate. she did use a formula meant for colored hair which perhaps was too gentle, but still. perm smell+no waves = boo. $80 later, i ended up with a trim i regret and stinky, flat hair. super disappointing.

but now that i had the "change" bug in my system i couldn't rest. i figured WTH, black will do. so i bought some chestnut Rainbow henna, mixed with straight indigo, and went to town that night. next day i had unevenly reddishbrownishblack hair. it was ok but made me look like my mom, which was not the goal at all.

so i called around and found a salon with openings to discuss my crazy silver plan (which was crazier now that i added the indigo variable - why did i do that?!). a friend of mine is a stylist and she booked me for her whole day to tackle this beast.

between 12:30pm and 8:30pm that day, my hair was 20vol soap-capped twice with heat, bleached once with heat, toned, demi- and semi-perm dyed, and at the end of it i looked like a really funny joke's punchline.

the soap caps removed all the indigo and a ton of the henna. the bleach brought it up the rest of the way to a bright buttery yellow BUT it left splotches of bright freaking teal (thank you indigo) and some coppery gold. even the two different colors of grey she dyed over it didn't cover those spots. it was not silver or even grey. it was just bad... but i wasn't upset because this was my crazy plan and now at least i had the bleach part handled; i figured worst case is i could dye purple or pink or something random for a while. whatever. remember: bleach turns indigo teal, but not evenly, and it doesn't come out.

she sent me home with Pravana semi-perm "titanium" which I used that night. it helped a little.

the next day i got Ion's titanium semi-perm and a demi-perm dark brown for my roots (to add some sanity). that helped a lot, so i then had a dark bluish-greyish color with hints of murky teal. it was kinda cool but still looked like it wasn't entirely intentional.

i spent the next few washes using silver shampoo and Adore semi-perms for toning, and while i liked the color because it matched my eyes, it wasn't light enough. i really wanted a less dark greyish silver.

so today, after a coconut oil soak, i soap capped again... this time with about 25vol+blue bleach+shampoo and left it on for maybe 25 min. i washed with a toning conditioner. it's significantly less gold and more inside-of-a-banana now, though i still have teal splotches. i'm about to use a semi-perm to attempt to get it to where i want it to be. i'm really keen on proving that you can go from henndigo to silver without all your hair falling out!

i'd also like to add that using henna in the first place - not dye - was both a problem and a saving grace, because my stylist was continuously shocked at how strong my hair held up to the abuse. henna really does fortify hair so it's virgin-plus.

i have pics of this whole process from start to finish so i will post them asap along with "final" results. and a product list, lol.

MidnightMoon
May 21st, 2016, 07:18 PM
lol, this so reminds me of my process from pravana blue+virgin to blonde, to copper, to two toned hair, to bleach all over twice, then brown, then pravana blue on everything again haha
too long to explain but it did involve a lot of bleach
I really want to see the pictures :p

LadyCelestina
May 21st, 2016, 10:28 PM
I was scrolling and scrolling to see pics and no pics :(

lapushka
May 22nd, 2016, 03:49 AM
Yeah, I don't know how much we can say it around here but indigo and bleach do not mix!

I'm so sorry about your hair and for all it's had to undergo (it might still work against you at a later date, so be careful). First rule to get it long is to stop messing with it. Did you lose a lot of length or are you still BSL? I hope the results are to your satisfaction now, because I would stop messing with it.

red-again
May 22nd, 2016, 03:58 AM
You need to get hold of some olaplex no1 and no2. I've recently bleach bathed ( soap capped) my dark henndigoed hair very successfully and cannot see any damage. I've gone red though as you can see from the pics so didn't need to bleach as light as you. And even though I had twenty or more indigo applications, it came out with no green. But that was the exception. You jot ally get green!
I'd also try colour b4 now on the indigo spots as that may help.
But totally with lapuska above, your hair may not look damaged yet. But a month or so down the line it may well. So tread very carefully. Try Aphogee protein treatment and follow with their balancing moistur rinse and add smt's etc.
Can't wait to see pics.

red-again
May 22nd, 2016, 04:00 AM
You add the olaplex no 1 into the bleach shampoo mix. Then rinse and apply no 2 afterwards. It can be kept in for hours or overnight. The longer the better. But it does need rinsing out.

Adorkable One
May 22nd, 2016, 04:42 AM
Oh, the journey to silver. :cool: Lol. Since deciding to go white/platinum, I decided to just accept my splotches and staining. Pretty much everything below my ears is stained, after I decided to bleach out a history of Red Henna -> Box Red Dye -> Box Brown Dye -> Dark Teal -> Dark Purple -> and lastly, Cotton Candy Pink! Needless to say, my lengths are more like a sandy, salmony color. And even when I manage to tone it with some purple conditioner...it's still more like a warm, steel color, rather than the creamy pure white I want.

I think over the course of 3 months, I had some form of bleach on my hair 5-6 times. (dear god, why?!) I couldn't bare the thought of bleaching it again, so I've decided to just pay attention to my regrowth, bleaching it as well as I can, and keeping it healthy..... and letting the evil stains grow out on their own. It's mostly okay. Ombre is in, right?

ANYWAY, have you tried the Bleach + Oil fading method? It's by a girl called Katie, whom seems to have invented the mixture. Here is a screen cap of her recipe and directions...
http://i.imgur.com/cWEKFQ7.jpg

It's great! It's the only fading method I tried that had actual results. My hair is very resistant to letting go of color AND taking color, so perhaps it would work on henna, since it's also stubborn? The treatment is drying, but that can easily be fixed. I tried this treatment 3 times while removing some dark teal hair. The third time, I left it on for the double the recommended time, and it lightly bleached my natural regrowth (whoops), but I didn't mind since the goal was to get platinum anyway. It's essentially a gentle bleach bath without the peroxide. I suppose you could even add Olaplex to it....but, I prefer using that on it's own.

Also...here's a post I made on Hair Crazy showing the light pink I was able to do after successfully removing my blue with this Bleach + Oil method. https://www.haircrazy.com/forum/show-off-gallery/16628/

twilight
May 25th, 2016, 07:45 AM
OOH yes I have some [olaplex] in my mailbox today! I can't wait to use it... tonight!

twilight
May 25th, 2016, 08:01 AM
thanks for the replies!

i did one more soap cap as noted the other night, and yeah, i'm feeling a little crunchy. I haven't been too worried about length, i've been steadily growing and not obsessed for a few years. i needed the trim i got and so far i don't need to cut post-bleach. I'm still BSL and fine with that.

my hair is very light blonde now with bluish-grey streaks (at least they're not splotches!). I dyed the roots a dark brown also. I look sort of nuts. and here comes the green tinge too.

I bought some Olaplex and was planning to use that with bleach to take it up all the way to white this weekend. i see pics of silver/platinum hair that i absolutely love, and i know i can pull it off because i used to be platinum in high school (i'm very fair). but now that i look at my little collage, i really like the darker grey. i think i'm going to go with that and just quit bleaching.

i'm unsure what to do.:confused: i feel very awkward where i am at but i don't mind change... i'm mostly just concerned with the damage i can now actually notice. blargh.

Pics and explanation:
starting top, left to right
- henna+indigo done the night before
- post soap cap #1
- post soap cap #2
- post bleach (note the indigo!!! btw i removed indigo without stains using effasol years ago. see my posts.)
- after getting home from the salon. it looks WAY better in the pic than it did in person... splotchy and blue/green.
- the next day, after adding Ion Titanium+Pravana Silver semi and darkening the roots.
- post soap cap at home (mentioned in OP in this thread)
- post toning and silver application. you can't see the blue/grey streaks in the buttery blonde but, oh, are they there. also my roots are way dark.

http://creativistdesign.com/images/twilighthair2016.jpg

twilight
May 25th, 2016, 08:05 AM
Yeah, I don't know how much we can say it around here but indigo and bleach do not mix!

I'm so sorry about your hair and for all it's had to undergo (it might still work against you at a later date, so be careful). First rule to get it long is to stop messing with it. Did you lose a lot of length or are you still BSL? I hope the results are to your satisfaction now, because I would stop messing with it.

sage advice that i think i am taking. i was cool with a little damage in the name of awesomeness, but i'm sitting here with more than a little damage in the name of... weird. lol.

twilight
May 25th, 2016, 08:33 AM
Also I forgot the product list.

so far, i have used (thoughts in parentheses):
- bleach + 20vol multiple times
- pravana titanium (didn't do much)
- pravana silver semi (minimal coverage)
- ion titanium semi (good coverage)
- color jamz periwinkle blue (for toning, in a crazy conditioner mix)
- adore silver (for toning, in a crazy conditioner mix)
- shiny silver shampoo (one application, hard to tell)
- argan demi-perm with 10vol in 3N for roots (DARK!)

and I'm going to use Olaplex as soon as i have a minute.

emmadilemma
May 25th, 2016, 01:05 PM
OOH yes I have some [olaplex] in my mailbox today! I can't wait to use it... tonight!
can I ask where you managed to buy olaplex? I cant find it anywhere online where you don't have to be a licensed professional:confused:

red-again
May 26th, 2016, 12:59 AM
I buy mine on eBay. As you say it's not licence d to public but some professionals are selling the sample sachets and will also dispense some of theirs for you.
Have a look on eBay and then look at reviews and amount sold. And buy a smallish amount first off. It's a bit of a gamble I'm afraid but I struck lucky but I'm in the uk. If you'd like the details of the seller I got mine from though just ask, but I bet there are many sellers in the USA too. Good luck

And twilight, have you used a specific professional toner? I have never wanted my hair as light as you need yours so don't know which ones are best but Sally's have lots of the professional ranges. Might be worth looking at their website and then going into 'hair crazy' or 'hair dye forum ' and asking for recommendations and thoughts. What those peeps don't know about hair colouring isn't worth knowing and will hopefully enable you to rescue your hair. And get that olaplex in ASAP, it truly is amazing

twilight
May 26th, 2016, 06:59 AM
can I ask where you managed to buy olaplex? I cant find it anywhere online where you don't have to be a licensed professional:confused:

amazon! $35 trial package :)

i used it last night as a standalone treatment and my hair immediately felt amazing. today it's clearly stronger than it was yesterday though obviously what was already broken is still broken. it seems to have more integrity and definitely more body. it's softer but the hairs themselves feel stronger. kind of like the difference between virgin hair and henna-virgin hair.

twilight
June 1st, 2016, 08:23 AM
update!

even though i wish i hadn't bleached that last time, i've settled on a fix that i really love! my hair is the color of bubbles, basically, what they're calling "oil slick" hair. it fades after one wash, which is super annoying but that also means it constantly changes (i like that). you can definitely see the damage though :doh:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23243&d=1464790957


so... no more peroxide for me. i will be maintaining an ever-shifting color spectrum until something else catches my attention.

pastina
June 1st, 2016, 08:37 AM
Protein up, and pleaaaase no more peroxide. You're going to see a lot more damage show up over the next month.

In the meantime, the gray everyone swears by is a brand called Nirvel-- ArtX Nutre Color in Grey. Havent tried this color myself (I've diluted purple for my silver shades) but it's gotten wonderful reviews from people I tend to trust.

twilight
June 2nd, 2016, 07:31 AM
Protein up, and pleaaaase no more peroxide. You're going to see a lot more damage show up over the next month.

In the meantime, the gray everyone swears by is a brand called Nirvel-- ArtX Nutre Color in Grey. Havent tried this color myself (I've diluted purple for my silver shades) but it's gotten wonderful reviews from people I tend to trust.

thanks, i heard about that and it looks like an awesome grey. seems i can only buy it on eBay though?! the ion titanium covered well and looked nice too but not quite as great as the swatches i've seen of nirvel.

i'm doing protein as much as i think is safe, and trying to balance with coconut oil.