Suncare Products

[Cass]

Hello guys :) newbie here.

I've been searching/stalking this forum for a few months now. Love everyone's hair and their haircare, but I've not found a thread related to what suncare products people use. (Sorry if there is one.)

I'm from England and have booked a holiday to Spain mid June. I'll be taking my trusty coconut oil with me, but does anyone have any suggestions on what else to take to protect my hair? I'd say it was between waist and hip length right now and in pretty good condition.

Thankyou for any replies they'll be much appreciated :) x

[Wavykate]

I am also in the uk and going to Spain in June! I'd like to get some tips on this, so far I decided to just oil my hair and keep it in braids most of the time. I'd like to hear some tips on protecting hair from pool chlorine

[meteor]

Definitely a sun hat / scarf / buff and keeping hair up helps. :) You want to reduce surface area by compact bunning and cover hair (ideally, with UPF-rated materials) to reduce photo damage.

As for leave-ins for sun protection, yes, there are many, but for me personally, the jury is still out on their effectiveness, partly because they would require some serious coverage all over canopy hair to be fully effective, making the hair less presentable when worn down, and partly because they were originally designed to protect hair dye from fast fading... I don't know if they manage to fully protect natural pigment and especially hair's protein, too.
Here is a quick compilation of some studies on sun damage and UV filters for hair (at the bottom): http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136845&p=3187913&viewfull=1#post3187913

Also, Igor ran an interesting experiment on shed hair using a product with skin SPF and a product with hair UV filters. After 2 months (re-spraying product once a day), she found that the skin SPF patch was darker than the control patch (possibly due to simple build-up from product not designed for hair and not washed out?), and the hair SPF patch was lighter than the control patch (possibly showing that it's simply not effective enough?).
http://igorsbelltower.blogspot.ca/2014/05/the-sun-protection-experiment.html
http://igorsbelltower.blogspot.ca/2014/07/the-sun-protection-experiment-2-months.html

Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, but wet hair might be even more susceptible to photo damage, so I'd be mindful of that. I haven't found specific research on this, but I saw this study on plant leaves and potential for water to amplify sun damage (like a magnifying glass) in some cases (Optics of sunlit water drops on leaves: conditions under which sunburn is possible - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8137.2009.03150.x/pdf) and saw this on L'Oreal Hair Science webpage:

But, in general, water is harmful to hair and considerably amplifies the many factors damaging it. It particularly accentuates the negative effects of sunlight, hair's other great enemy. Melanin degradation is encouraged and sun linked decoloration intensifies. Keratin itself is altered, making the hair fragile and easily damaged. (http://www.hair-science.com/_int/_en/topic/topic_sousrub.aspx?tc=root-hair-science%5Eso-sturdy-so-fragile%5Eproperties-of-hair&cur=properties-of-hair)

That said, I don't want to scare you :flower:, especially since it's specifically photo damage that can give hair that effortless natural ombre look. :crush: But a wide-brimmed sun hat is still a very good idea (for skin even more so than for hair). ;)

I hope you have a great time in Spain! :cheer: And welcome to the LHC, Cass and Wavykate! :D

[AJNinami]

I'd recommend hats for the sun, and swimming caps for the pool. :)

ETA: meteor beat me to it, with plenty of good info!

[meteor]

Are you going swimming there, too? :D If so, coconut oil will be super handy as a pre-treatment! :thumbsup:

Here are some swimming ideas:

- If your hair doesn't fit in a swim cap, you could look into special long-hair swimcaps, like this, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czj4DOl6UO4
and/or try a two-cap combination (it helps keep out some of the water);

- If you don't like the look of swim caps or if you find them uncomfortable, you could look into so-called PonyDry (it hides the length but keeps the scalp uncovered): http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136047;

- Coconut oil soak pre-pool to reduce uptake of water with minerals, and/or soak hair in fresh water and conditioner;

- After swimming, you could try a swimmers' or chelating shampoo or a chelating pack periodically (e.g. Ion, Malibu C, Ultraswim, etc), followed by a moisturizing conditioner.

[Zebra Fish]

I live at sea and until some years ago never did anything and had no damage from sea water. After I dyed it for the first time, everything started damaging it. Now I henna. During summer I usualy coat it with coconut or coconut/olive oil in the morning, bun it and wash with conditioner in the evening. U usualy go few times in sea during the day. Sometimes I take a bottle of water and pour it over hair before going back home, and add soke extra oil when going back to sea. I live really near the beach, so I rarely lie on the beach, and if I do it is after 6pm. I just swim and then maybe I'm 10 minutes in the sun and home. Other than oil, definitely wear a hat. I'd also advice one of those hiking ones that have a cover for the neck (so if your bun is there it is covered. They might not he pretty, but protect neck and bun.

[Stepo_NiNha]

Hi,

Well let's say... I live 180 km away from Spain so maybe I can help!

Just one question: are you going to the beach? Or central area?

My tips for Summer here:

- hats when it's too warm especially July and August (in June is not necessary I guess, at least I don't feel it but I live in the coastline area so the weather is not as extreme as in the central parts);
- coney products (yes, they do a great job) because they coat your hair, protecting it;
- products designed for coloured hair have UV protection: they work very well even on virgin hair;
- wear your hair up (you'll know you have to even if it's not your favourite style because you'll sweat like crazy)

And one thing: It's awesome if you have your hair in pretty good condition by now and want to keep it that way during your holidays ;) Congrats!

And enjoy your trip and the weather!

[Stepo_NiNha]

I am also in the uk and going to Spain in June! I'd like to get some tips on this, so far I decided to just oil my hair and keep it in braids most of the time. I'd like to hear some tips on protecting hair from pool chlorine

Wavykate,

Pool Chlorine is one of the harshest things for your hair!

Take a chelating shampoo with you => check for a sulphate shampoo and EDTA on the ingredients list such as dissodium, trissodium or tetrassodium EDTA.

Avoid cones in that shampoo.

Take a UV protection product with you like a conditioner, serum, etc. Generally products designed for coloured hair have UV protection.

Hope this helps!

[Cass]

Thankyou so much for the replies :bow:

I will be swimming and also i'm about 5 minutes walk from the beach :D My hair is professionally dyed black but it fades pretty easily. (Will have to get some pictures up on here of my hair)

I'll look into chelating shampoos now. I'd also love to hear if anyone has a reccomendation for a super thick mask? Anything that i can take away with me that will give some good moisture.

UV products and hats are also on my to buy list.. thanks again everyone, your comments are very much appreciated to a noob like me :puppykisses:

[Stepo_NiNha]

That's a good idea taking a chelating shampoo; i recommended to the other girl because she is going to the swimming pool.

In your case, and especially if your hair is dyed, just use the chelating shampoo once a week or once every two weeks to avoid colour fading :)

Hope someone can give you a good idea for a good mask! I'm not a big fan of hair masks, but there are many people around here that can give you good recommendations of DYI hair masks.

But for your holidays I think a commercial hair mask can do the job ;)

[lapushka]

Guhl made sun protection sprays a couple of years (quite a few years actually) ago. A leave-in spray to protect against sun damage, for instance. And a leave-in. I still have most of it. Also Hema (Dutch/Belgian store) did a sun protection leave-in from their own brand. Got that too. Still unused. The sun doesn't shine near as bad enough in countries such as Belgium for this to get much use - if at all.

But going to Spain? Yes, maybe protection is a great idea. Especially if you are planning to go to the beach. Oil... I wouldn't use unless you go in the water. Because oil and hot? It fries.

[Stepo_NiNha]

I agree with Lapuska says about the oil: sun+oil = cooking

If your hair likes coconut oil just use it at the hotel room/home/place you're going to stay. You might want to wear a cap to keep your head warm to help the oil penetrating the hair shaft and that's the the ONLY heat I would recommend.

You can also do it when you return home ;)

[meteor]

Oil... I wouldn't use unless you go in the water. Because oil and hot? It fries.


I agree with Lapuska says about the oil: sun+oil = cooking

If your hair likes coconut oil just use it at the hotel room/home/place you're going to stay. You might want to wear a cap to keep your head warm to help the oil penetrating the hair shaft and that's the the ONLY heat I would recommend.

^ Lapushka, Stepo_NiNha, could you guys share more on this, please? :flower:

It's just that I've been wondering about this for a while myself and I don't see much definitive info on the subject. Also, I noticed I had much more moisturized and stronger-feeling hair the summers when I covered hair with coconut oil and bunned it vs. summers when I only bunned it. Also, I know many people in tropical climates wear coconut oil in the sun almost 24/7, as it's been done for ages as a hair-protective tradition. Of course, this is all only anecdotal evidence, so I'm still wondering... Photo-chemical damage from UV rays (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136845&p=3187913&viewfull=1#post3187913) is very different in nature from heat damage. For one, heat from typical sun exposure does not go to the same degree as direct heat from hot styling tools (too hot to touch), but rather - comparable to a hot treatment under cap or in a hot bath, no? :hmm:


Anyway, I haven't found much on this subject, so I'd love to find out more. :flower:

Here is something relevant from the popular Effect of mineral oil, sunflower oil, and coconut oil on prevention of hair damage study: http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf


In the case of UV treatment, the hair tresses were exposed to simulated sunlight in a xenostat, wherein each hair tress was exposed at 50C and 65% relative humidity for a period of 300 hr. The tresses were turned over during the period of exposure to attempt a uniform exposure of all fibers to the radiant source.
In some cases hair tresses were treated with 0.2 ml of coconut oil/mineral oil/sunflower oil before exposure, with the oil spread uniformly across the hair tress before exposure to UV light. In a few cases, the treatment with oil was carried out after UV exposure. The tresses were stored at room temperature for 48 hr before they were subjected to protein loss determination. This was designed to simulate density of hair on scalp and scalp treatments (from p. 179)

See Graphs on p. 181 (protein loss measurement) and p. 189 (water retention index measurement) for results: with vs. without coconut oil, mineral oil and sunflower oil. All oils seemed helpful for UV damage, but coconut oil *a lot* more effective compared to others.

I'm not certain about this, because it's not 100% clear from the way they phrased the study design and the findings they presented when exactly they used the treatments: before sun exposure vs. pre-wash & post-wash after sun exposure (as in: preventing sun damage or used on already sun-bleached hair)... It seems they did both, but presented them together? :hmm: If somebody could look over it and clarify, it would be super-helpful! :flower:

[lapushka]

^ Lapushka, Stepo_NiNha, could you guys share more on this, please? :flower:

It's just that I've been wondering about this for a while myself and I don't see much definitive info on the subject. Also, I noticed I had much more moisturized and stronger-feeling hair the summers when I covered hair with coconut oil and bunned it vs. summers when I only bunned it. Also, I know many people in tropical climates wear coconut oil in the sun almost 24/7, as it's been done for ages as a hair-protective tradition. Of course, this is all only anecdotal evidence, so I'm still wondering... Photo-chemical damage from UV rays (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136845&p=3187913&viewfull=1#post3187913) is very different in nature from heat damage. For one, heat from typical sun exposure does not go to the same degree as direct heat from hot styling tools (too hot to touch), but rather - comparable to a hot treatment under cap or in a hot bath, no? :hmm:

When you put oil in a frying pan? It fries. Same goes for when putting oil in your hair and then straightening it with a 100°C+ iron. It fries the hair. Same more than likely goes for oil in direct heat from the sun (and that can get pretty darn hot in hotter countries - 40°C+). It's not like it "protects" the hair with a barrier. The barrier itself conducts heat. That's why you need to be careful with "hot oil" treatments as well. Lukewarm? Fine, hotter than that, no way.

[meteor]

When you put oil in a frying pan? It fries. Same goes for when putting oil in your hair and then straightening it with a 100°C+ iron. It fries the hair. Same more than likely goes for oil in direct heat from the sun (and that can get pretty darn hot in hotter countries - 40°C+). It's not like it "protects" the hair with a barrier. The barrier itself conducts heat. That's why you need to be careful with "hot oil" treatments as well. Lukewarm? Fine, hotter than that, no way.

^ But temperatures high enough to cause thermal damage to hair, denature hair protein, are simply intolerable for the rest of the body anyway. :hmm: It's very different from hot styling tools (which utilize much, much higher temperatures). :) While comparing hot tools to a frying pan can be done, I don't think the comparison holds with a pleasant sunny day, IMHO. :flower:

Here is a good article on how hot is too hot for hair, and it's nowhere near to what one would expect on a sunny day: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/05/straightening-factshow-hot-is-too-hot.html

I think my concern is that: 1) the study I linked above showed coconut oil as very protective for UV-treated hair (though I have questions on when they applied it); and 2) I don't see how a hot day is different for hair compared to keeping an oil treatment in hair under a warm cap? (beyond humidity and UV rays - different aspect from temperature) Would you consider using oil treatments under a warm cap to be problematic, too, if the temperatures are similar to a hot day?

Also, the only thermal component of "sun" damage is potential for dryness on a hot day (sunny or not), but that's not even technically photo damage. The rest of the damage (actual photo-chemical degradation caused by UVA and UVB rays) has nothing to do with temperature itself (studies on it are here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136845&p=3187913&viewfull=1#post3187913)).


I'm curious: Did anybody here try both oiling and not oiling hair before going in the sun? How did the results compare? :)

[meteor]

Also, how do you guys figure out if a certain product with UV filters works well or not?
I see many claims like that in leave-ins, and often also in rinse-out conditioners/masks I use (which gives me doubts, since I don't know how well they stick to hair from rinse-out products), but I'm having trouble figuring out effectiveness... :oops: Unlike skin UV filters/blockers, I've seen only very little research on hair UV protection, and most of it - not independent. Are there specific ingredients/filters that you found provided better protection than others? Thank you! :flower:

[Stepo_NiNha]

Many Indian women use coconut oil during several hours and even days, thats a fact. Still, oiling treatments are more popular overnight, after a scalp massage. Some of them prefer to cover the hair for it, others prefer to leave it on the hair, all twisted (anou? are you there?):eye:.

I believe it might work differently in many hair types. Keeping the hair covered and protected from the sun while oiling might be good to protect against UV rays at the same time you keep your head warm for the oil penetration process (ex: while sleeping). But still, I believe it can work differently for many hair types (probably coarse hair will have a different result from fine hair with oil and sun?) and probably thats the reason why its working with you :)

I already tried oiling my hair in different ocasions; it was not summertime when i did it but it was a sunny day and yes it was worse when I went out. however, I have bad results with all types of oil treatments on my hair though, specially coconut, my hair hates oils:hmm:, in and out doors, but for sure it works wonders on many other hair types.

I dont know the exact names of the UV filters but I use a hair colour protect mask every now and then that has been workin for me because I have dark brown/almost black hair that becomes reddish with sun exposure and it has been protecting the hair from the UV rays (the product itself makes reference to UV protection). Its loreal elvive colorvive (sold in europe with this name) and I'm pretty amazed, despite being a commercial product :)

:flower:

[lapushka]

^ But temperatures high enough to cause thermal damage to hair, denature hair protein, are simply intolerable for the rest of the body anyway. :hmm: It's very different from hot styling tools (which utilize much, much higher temperatures). :) While comparing hot tools to a frying pan can be done, I don't think the comparison holds with a pleasant sunny day, IMHO. :flower:

Here is a good article on how hot is too hot for hair, and it's nowhere near to what one would expect on a sunny day: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/05/straightening-factshow-hot-is-too-hot.html

I think my concern is that: 1) the study I linked above showed coconut oil as very protective for UV-treated hair (though I have questions on when they applied it); and 2) I don't see how a hot day is different for hair compared to keeping an oil treatment in hair under a warm cap? (beyond humidity and UV rays - different aspect from temperature) Would you consider using oil treatments under a warm cap to be problematic, too, if the temperatures are similar to a hot day?

Also, the only thermal component of "sun" damage is potential for dryness on a hot day (sunny or not), but that's not even technically photo damage. The rest of the damage (actual photo-chemical degradation caused by UVA and UVB rays) has nothing to do with temperature itself (studies on it are here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=136845&p=3187913&viewfull=1#post3187913)).


I'm curious: Did anybody here try both oiling and not oiling hair before going in the sun? How did the results compare? :)

40°C burns. You can't hold your skin in that temperature, and the sun can get to that temperature! If it burns my skin, it can't be good for my hair, that is my reasoning. :shrug: It's not because it's not written up on a blog that what I'm saying can be discounted. ;) Or not thought about for a sec.

[meteor]

Many Indian women use coconut oil during several hours and even days, thats a fact. Still, oiling treatments are more popular overnight, after a scalp massage. Some of them prefer to cover the hair for it, others prefer to leave it on the hair, all twisted (anou? are you there?):eye:.

I believe it might work differently in many hair types. Keeping the hair covered and protected from the sun while oiling might be good to protect against UV rays at the same time you keep your head warm for the oil penetration process (ex: while sleeping). But still, I believe it can work differently for many hair types (probably coarse hair will have a different result from fine hair with oil and sun?) and probably thats the reason why its working with you :)

I already tried oiling my hair in different ocasions; it was not summertime when i did it but it was a sunny day and yes it was worse when I went out. however, I have bad results with all types of oil treatments on my hair though, specially coconut, my hair hates oils:hmm:, in and out doors, but for sure it works wonders on many other hair types.

I dont know the exact names of the UV filters but I use a hair colour protect mask every now and then that has been workin for me because I have dark brown/almost black hair that becomes reddish with sun exposure and it has been protecting the hair from the UV rays (the product itself makes reference to UV protection). Its loreal elvive colorvive (sold in europe with this name) and I'm pretty amazed, despite being a commercial product :)

:flower:

Oh, for sure :agree: , and I definitely agree about all sorts of covering. :D I think my preferred way has been to put oil as leave-in, bun it in a compact style and cover with a hat. The hat/covering is still probably the most important tool (especially if it's made of materials with high UPF rating), but I should definitely explore those UV products more... That L'Oreal Elvive one you mentioned sounds really good. :) I found that it's specifically L'Oreal that has done quite a bit of research into UV protection for hair and they make many products with UV filters. :)
* off to read up more on this... *
Thank you, Stepo_NiNha! :flowers:

[Stepo_NiNha]

You're welcome :)

[Llama]

When you put oil in a frying pan? It fries. Same goes for when putting oil in your hair and then straightening it with a 100°C+ iron. It fries the hair. Same more than likely goes for oil in direct heat from the sun (and that can get pretty darn hot in hotter countries - 40°C+). It's not like it "protects" the hair with a barrier. The barrier itself conducts heat. That's why you need to be careful with "hot oil" treatments as well. Lukewarm? Fine, hotter than that, no way.

I understand that oil is used for cooking, but I feel like any liquid substance fries/boils when placed in a pan over the stove. Water boils and I bet a regular leave in conditioner would boil too.

[lapushka]

I understand that oil is used for cooking, but I feel like any liquid substance fries/boils when placed in a pan over the stove. Water boils and I bet a regular leave in conditioner would boil too.

Good point, but this was about 40°C being strong enough to do so (fry).

[truepeacenik]

40 C is 104 F
I have been in 118 F air temperature many times.
Oil would not actually fry at those temperatures.

The issue becomes long, still exposure.
Think of weather reports showing eggs frying on sidewalks. That's a combination of cumulative heat sinking over several hot days with not much cooling at night and simply not moving air over the area so no heat dissipates.
Attempting to fry eggs on the first hot day rarely works.

[Deborah]

I'm all for sunhats, both for hair and for skin protection. I don't know what protection works for swimming, but hats are good for the rest of the time.