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Darkhorse1
May 1st, 2016, 09:37 PM
Hey folks! I'm hoping that perhaps others might have experienced this, but it's rather new to me.

I have an oily scalp and my work with horses, SD and other things, I was my hair daily with a clarifying shampoo. (Herbal Essence Tea Lightfully Clean).

I've noticed now, after washing, that my hair is very gummy after washing---only when it's wet, but makes doing up dos to dry my hair impossible. I've NEVER had this in my life. My hair at the scalp has always been soft after washing(I use conditioner on the ends, but not my scalp due to excess oils).

I did notice this began when I had to start using Herbal Essence Tea Lightfully clean, from the old shampoo, but I also switched to using a permanent hair color for gray coverage rather than a semi permanent color (applied by my hair dresser).

I'm at a loss as to what to do to help my hair soften----I've used other shampoos that aren't clarifying and have the same issue, which leads me to think it's the hair color (which makes sense because my roots are constantly being covered up due to fast growing gray).

So, then problem 2: What do I use on my scalp to soften the hair that won't make it greasy but stop this gummy feeling so I can comb out my hair easier. After it's dry, it's soft and silky, it's just when it's wet.....

molljo
May 1st, 2016, 10:16 PM
Gummy when wet almost always means you need protein. I'm pretty sure it's because you switched to a permanent dye (uses a developer, i.e. bleach) from a semi permanent (deposit only). I would suggest you look into a protein treatment (anything billed as "strengthening" or "for damaged hair"). Ingredients should include the words "hydrolyzed", "silk", "keratin", "amino acids", "peptides" and/or, of course, "protein". You can also do a gelatin treatment http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html

Darkhorse1
May 1st, 2016, 11:17 PM
I'm thinking that's the reason---the permanent dye from semi, but my hair LOATHES proteins. I mean, it just hates them. I did do a heavy condition/wash/condition and wow--it was soft and silky---but it also made my scalp greasy within the day. And it's JUST the scalp area---and gummy may be the wrong word to use--it feels very dry---and then I wonder if it's because of no silicones in the shampoo anymore--I had this feeling once when I used Burts Bees and my hair hated it. At least Herbal Essence has enough slip for me, but I may need to look into a water based finishing rinse to soften the hair at the scalp.

It's soft and silky when it dries though, which is what baffles me.... Thanks for your input!

lapushka
May 2nd, 2016, 01:28 AM
Your hair might dislike protein usually because it has enough of it, but that might not be the case now, and you might need to level it back up.

Otherwise, the usual: clarify before adding the protein.

Wusel
May 2nd, 2016, 03:20 AM
I thought clarifying should be done only from time to time.... and not daily because it's too harsh to the hair...?

lapushka
May 2nd, 2016, 04:02 AM
I thought clarifying should be done only from time to time.... and not daily because it's too harsh to the hair...?

I don't think I said daily? :?:

Wusel
May 2nd, 2016, 05:12 AM
I don't think I said daily? :?:

You didn't, I know, I didn't mean you, but OP wrote that she washes daily with a clarifying shampoo.

Nique1202
May 2nd, 2016, 05:46 AM
I thought clarifying should be done only from time to time.... and not daily because it's too harsh to the hair...?

She works with horses all day, even in an updo that's going to involve a lot of dirt and smell sticking to the hair, and if I remember correctly in a previous thread Darkhorse1 mentioned that non-clarifying shampoos don't always do the job well enough to get it out. There are lots of reasons someone might need to use clarifying shampoo at every wash. I did for years.

As for the gumminess, if you can get your hands on a bottle of the Herbal Essences Long Term Relationship, it's got just a little bit of protein and lots of sulfates for cleansing so you could try alternating it with your Tea Lightfully Clean and see if that helps the problem. My hair is pretty protein sensitive and I can go about 15 washes with LTR and a no-protein conditioner before I need to clarify.

Darkhorse1
May 2nd, 2016, 09:20 AM
Thanks folks: Yes, I work with horses, and when I'm teaching/riding, my hair is up in a hat, but gets sweaty. I also have SD, so my scalp MUST stay clean, or it will itch like mad.

I'll try use the proteins Niquie--thanks for the suggestion! The problem is, it's my scalp and of course, I don't condition that due to the greasy nature of it. I'm looking into some rinses (finishing) that may do the trick though :)

And today, I tried to get an idea of the texture/feeling: It feels more like your hair would if you over did hair spray on it and it's crunchy, but wet. And, just the scalp area. I did notice the same feeling when it was just wet this morning, before I started washing, so I'm really thinking it's the permanent hair color changing the texture of my hair :)

Anje
May 2nd, 2016, 11:38 AM
Permanent hair color might make your hair more readily need protein. So try it.

Your hair is dark, right? I've seen a simple protein treatment of taking low-sodium soy sauce (which contains wheat and soy proteins that have been hydrolyzed in the fermentation process) or Bragg's liquid aminos, diluting them in some water, and soaking the hair in it for a few minutes before rinsing. It's not a strong protein treatment like gelatin would be, but it might be adequate and it would avoid the issues of conditioner on your scalp.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=47142&p=1068792&viewfull=1#post1068792

Darkhorse1
May 2nd, 2016, 06:51 PM
Anje--thanks! I'm soooo leery of protein treatments--I used coconut oil, and it nearly fried my hair. Also, my bigger concern is that my scalp needs to stay clean. Anything applied on the scalp will likely cause it to get build/up or greasy--but I'm wondering if there's a leave in conditioner spray I can use--going to do some searching and pop to the drug store. I know Pantene has a new line coming out about 'strong hair' with protein--that's the only shampoo/conditioner I could use that didn't totally tick my hair off. I'm getting my roots covered this coming Saturday so I'll also speak to my hair dresser. Thanks gang!! I really appreciate your help. I DID notice a difference after doing a test of putting on conditioner after a wash, but as it was my scalp, it was greasy after it dried---yes--I'm brunette so any tiny bit of grease shows ...yuck.....

meteor
May 2nd, 2016, 07:19 PM
Another vote for protein treatments. :) Stretchy, gummy when wet but overly brittle/dry/snap-prone when dry is a pretty typical sign - esp. very common after chemical processing like bleach/perm, for example.

Permanent oxidative dye (with peroxide) can definitely cause that and combining that with daily clarifying... yes, I'd definitely try a protein treatment. :flower:

By the way, clarifying hair frequently can make the color fade faster. I'd try washing with CO-wash method or maybe scalp-only washes and with cool/tepid (not hot) water. This should allow color to last longer and reduce the need to re-dye (thus reducing peroxide damage).

Alternatively, maybe looking for an effective gentle true semi- deposit-only direct dye can work, since it's always better to avoid damaging hair in the first place rather than try and temporarily patch-repair damage later (patch-repair doesn't last for long, even with the best protein treatments and other forms of damage control).


I'm soooo leery of protein treatments--I used coconut oil, and it nearly fried my hair. Also, my bigger concern is that my scalp needs to stay clean.

Coconut oil (and any other uncontaminated oil) is 100% fat and 0% protein. You can keep protein treatments and all conditioning off scalp if you want to keep it cleaner for longer. If you don't want a separate protein treatment (by the way, Joico K-Pak Reconstruct, Redken Extreme Builder Plus and especially Aphogee 2 Step are really good and strong), have you every tried DIY gelatin mask, by any chance? :) It's pretty good and easy to customize for stronger or weaker treatment: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html
It's always good to follow up protein treatment with a moisturizing treatment (e.g. SMT+oils).

More on protein: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html and http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html