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Christine_O
April 8th, 2016, 02:54 PM
Has anybody else been told that their length goals were unrealistic? I was talking with an associate yesterday about making an appointment with her at the end of the year for a trim. I knew she would be sympathetic to my rather woowoo attitude about hair cutting. But when I showed her how long I was hoping to go, she called it an unrealistic goal.
The timid mouse I used to be shriveled up and thought about giving up on long hair altogether. The resolute person I have become quietly 'lost' her business card.
I'm still smarting today. Am I wrong, or was that rude? Even if it is unrealistic, isn't that my issue to sort out?

lillielil
April 8th, 2016, 02:56 PM
That was super rude and none of her business.

missrandie
April 8th, 2016, 03:01 PM
She was rude. Way to go on losing her card!

Llama
April 8th, 2016, 03:11 PM
Deleted (deleted)

restless
April 8th, 2016, 03:11 PM
I guess it depends a lot on how she said it. I mean, its possible that she was just trying to be kind and wanted to make sure you dont get too disappointed if/when you dont reach your goal. Or... its possible she was just being an a** and wanted to knock you down :shrug: Either way go prove her wrong! ;)

Sarahm
April 8th, 2016, 03:13 PM
Well, how long are you hoping to go?

And, I guess it also depends on the way she said it. So if you feel her tone was rude, it probably was a rude comment.

Oh and congrats on standing up for yourself! :cheer:

Robot Ninja
April 8th, 2016, 03:17 PM
Yeah, that was rude. And wrong. TBL is not unrealistic for most people.

embee
April 8th, 2016, 03:27 PM
Well, she does *not* know, even if she thinks she does. Now if you said "floor length", I might say that's asking a lot and good luck to you. But TBL? Many people do that. Even I, an old lady, have gone beyond it. :D Anyway, it sure is worth a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Groovy Granny
April 8th, 2016, 03:54 PM
She had no right telling you that; then again....stylists have their own agendas + the horror stories most of us have experienced.

Learn to do Feye's method or the 'under the chin' trims (super easy).
If you're not long enough to manage yourself, wait until you are, ask a trusted friend to help, or find a long hair sympathetic stylist.

Good for you standing up for yourself :thumbsup:

Don't lose your vision; it is perfectly reasonable!

If I had listened to the naysayers 3+ years ago, I'd look like an old lady with a short colored perm right now :laugh:

meteor
April 8th, 2016, 04:43 PM
Christine_O, don't worry about it! :grouphug: Of course, you'll get to TBL or longer! :love: Just stay the course and you'll get where you want to be! :cheer:

You know, many people (especially if they are used to trimming frequently and preserving the same length for years) are really surprised when they hear how long that same hair can grow. I often hear people confidently say that their hair "simply doesn't/can't grow", and they somehow believe it, it's some sort of extreme hair conservatism imagining that hair always stays the same and if, for example, it's short, then it will be short... :confused: Maybe they think so just because hair doesn't grow visibly fast, hmm...

It can be hard for some to imagine something very different from what they see right now. For some reason, many people don't grasp the mind-blowing simplicity that it literally takes:
1) no/limited cutting,
2) avoiding serious damage that could result in breakage and
3) avoiding serious health problems/treatments that can cause drastic thinning, alopecia -
- and yes, it will grow :agree: ... 6'' a year, on average, no matter what, until terminal. :cheer:



Has anybody else been told that their length goals were unrealistic?

Yes - but it didn't bother me, since I was already aware of this "hair conservatism" and I understood the confirmation bias that comes from years of looking at the same, non-changing, frequently cut hair.

The only thing that made me doubt and wonder about how realistic my plans were was science: apparently, our current understanding is that Anagen phase (active growing phase) of hair is only 1,000 days (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1073488-overview) or 2-6 years (http://dermatology.about.com/od/hairloss/fl/What-is-the-Anagen-Phase-of-Hair-Growth.htm) or 3-6 years ("Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair" by C.R. Robbins - http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642256103).
With average growth rate of 6'' per year, it would mean that people wouldn't normally be able to grow longer than 36'', on average, even if they tried.

And yet, anecdotal evidence suggests that people who try to reach terminal or just grow long hair can get a lot more than 36'' (barring hair-cutting, hair-loss or extensive damage episodes, of course), before hitting terminal length. (Heck, even my own length is already 52''.) I really think the anagen phase length that is cited everywhere is a very low, conservative number and it possibly discourages some folks on the growth journey :flower: - I do believe it's very individual, of course, but on average, humans are probably able to grow significantly longer than that before hitting their terminal. I mean, just look around the LHC! :D


Keep on growing, Christine_O! :cheer: Don't worry about naysayers! You'll get to your goals and more! :cheer:

Garnetgem
April 8th, 2016, 04:47 PM
That was rude even if she was thinking it she should not have said it out loud to anyone....if she made you feel like giving up then the way it was said was obviously a not so nice tone by her...

i was told a few years ago that i had no chance of growing beyond waist but this made me want to do it all the more....oh and i did i managed to get to knee length,i since cut it but growing it again..

but there is always going to be someone with something to say and give advice we don't want..

Nique1202
April 8th, 2016, 05:01 PM
Some folks have a very short terminal length (at least one or two around the forum can't grow further than BSL no matter what they've tried). Some folks try to grow their hair and hit false terminal lengths around midback, waist, or tailbone due to lifetime damage on the hair (I see a lot of threads started by people asking if that's normal) and have to choose between damaging habits or gaining length.

In general though, most people who try seem to be able to get at least as far as tailbone without too much trouble, especially if they're willing to protect their hair with braids or updos, though that's not even necessary for everyone. There are folks with all hair types from the straight through the curly range, and from i through iii thickness, and with fine through to coarse hair in the threads for tailbone to classic, classic to knee, and knee and beyond.

You have a very good chance of making it to tailbone. Don't let anyone discourage you from a perfectly reasonable dream of having long hair. :blossom:

MeAndTheMaz
April 8th, 2016, 05:03 PM
That certainly was a crappy thing to say. Don't listen to her, and don't spend too much time looking for her card.

I'll tell you what's more unlikely than being able to grow to TBL, and that's that you'll keep your goal at TBL. ;) Ask around TLHC. Seems like everyone moves the goal post as they get closer.

endlessly
April 8th, 2016, 05:19 PM
Definitely rude and you did the right thing by "misplacing" the business card. I've had hair stylists tell me this in the past, but they do have their own agenda at work, so try not to let it affect you too much. They want to see you coming in every 6-8 weeks for a trim, it means more money for them, so they're going to try to persuade you to give up on your long hair goals by saying whatever necessary. I've been told I "don't have the face for it", that "hair can't possibly grow that long" - which is major b.s. by the way as I've since surpassed the "impossible" length. Just hold your own and keep growing!

calmyogi
April 8th, 2016, 05:25 PM
My sister just had her hair cut and while chatting with her stylist she mentioned her sister (me) was going to grow her hair out to at least tailbone length. The stylists responded with "A lot of people can't grow their hair that long. I would be surprised if she was successful".

I laughed at the comment. I don't believe it's not possible. I see loads of people with TBL hair, easy. If it was something most people weren't capable of doing then I don't think I would see so many people with hair that long.

ravenheather
April 8th, 2016, 06:01 PM
Having been told my whole life that my hair won't grow long, I understand why you were upset. I figure we won't know til we try. Don't pay attention to the naysayers.

CurlyCap
April 8th, 2016, 06:03 PM
Most stylists don't work with long hairs because we actively avoid them. So maybe to her anything past BSL is rare and amazing.

Just learn to cut your own hair. Some stylists are fantastic, but they can be hard to find and gamble of a trial salon visit often isn't worth it.

missrandie
April 8th, 2016, 06:05 PM
An unrealistic goal is me saying that I am going to hit floor length by the end of this year when I have hair shorter than APL. Unrealistic is saying that I'm going to be able to keep both my tomato plants alive (lol).

Your goal is nowhere near unrealistic. It is quite reasonable in my eyes.

Wildcat Diva
April 8th, 2016, 07:43 PM
Tailbone is totally doable.
She maybe didn't think it is something that is easily attained.

But she don't know longhaired fortitude.

Amapola
April 8th, 2016, 09:30 PM
When people say things like this to me, I immediately put it through my special "Stick-In-The-Mud" interpreter so I can understand what they are REALLY saying. This one come out something like, "I don't think I can grow my hair that long, therefore, NO ONE can grow their hair that long." Which is kind of silly. What evidence is she using to come to this conclusion? Is she really familiar with how your hair grows? Probably not... probably no evidence whatsoever, just spout out what she thinks based on how HER hair is... :dizzy: :shrug:

pailin
April 8th, 2016, 09:51 PM
I'm only at waist now, but I've been starting to get people commenting how fast my hair grows (it doesn't) and surprised that I was at pixie in 2012. This is the fastest I've ever grown my hair, simply because in there I finally learned to stop cutting it. I've been learning that my own expectations, and the impression I've always gotten from stylists, were just wrong. And from this forum it's pretty clear to me that most longhairs are pretty salon-avoidant, so why would we expect the stylists to know anything?
By the way, my goal still says hip, but I'm really thinking tailbone /classic (this is the LHC :) ).

MsPharaohMoan
April 8th, 2016, 10:43 PM
Maybe it was unrealistic because she's never seen hair like that, or just can't imagine it on you? It is a tad unconventional (and the hive doesn't like outliers). Regardless, you grow girl :cheer:

spirals
April 8th, 2016, 11:20 PM
I heart every answer in this thread. You are all wonderful.

cowgirllong
April 8th, 2016, 11:44 PM
It was definitely rude and wrong. I don't think it's right to squash other people's dreams, period.

You can grow your hair as long as you darn well want to! I think that the people who said she hasn't seen it, so she doesn't know are right. She might not know any better. She isn't trained in how to grow healthy hair, she's trained to cut it, perm it, and color it. All the things that will prevent it from getting anywhere near what we all consider long.

MeAndTheMaz
April 9th, 2016, 11:23 AM
When people say things like this to me, I immediately put it through my special "Stick-In-The-Mud" interpreter so I can understand what they are REALLY saying. This one come out something like, "I don't think I can grow my hair that long, therefore, NO ONE can grow their hair that long." Which is kind of silly. What evidence is she using to come to this conclusion? Is she really familiar with how your hair grows? Probably not... probably no evidence whatsoever, just spout out what she thinks based on how HER hair is... :dizzy: :shrug:

Wait. You reminded me. I have one of those doohickies also. Must have different models, though, because mine came out with something more like "keep coming in to me for a "trim" every six to eight weeks, and I'll make sure you never reach TBL".

Mimha
April 9th, 2016, 01:10 PM
If she is a hairdresser, and if her experience of hair comes form what she was taught (= cut, perm, dye) + what she sees at the salon (= people who come to cut, perm, dye and are most of the time shorter than BSL), she was probably just being honest with her own belief and knowledge (though not very tactful). And if you have fine + thin hair, there is one more reason for her to believe that you can't grow far below waist. People are so much brain washed with this belief that very few thin haired people imagine that they can grow very long hair, or are afraid of the stupid/nasty comments and don't even give their hair a chance. This is to forget that your personal potential maximal length is not only depending on how many single stands of hair you have on your head or the fact that your hair is fine and delicate (fine doesn't mean damaged or weak), but also on your growth rate (that is not depending on hair quantity or coarseness) combined with your hair life cycle duration (that can be several years beyond average if you are part of the lucky ones). And this, nobody can know it and pretend that your hair is bound to remain short. We have some totally amazing long hairs here among the i team to prove it.

Don't let yourself be fenced in other people's beliefs and let your hair grow as long as you please ! :flower:

cat11
April 9th, 2016, 02:31 PM
For some people, it is unrealistic. Especially those with thin hair, or very fine hair prone to breaking. I don't know what kind of hair you have... so I can't say if it's unrealistic or not. But I have a friend who has very fine hair and she can't get past waist. She keeps it at BSL so it looks nice since the ends are barely there at waist anyway. (which I think is a better decision than hanging on to ugly longer hair) I've passed some LHC advice to her (most of which she had actually already tried.) but it hasn't really helped. It may have something to do with the fact that she wears it down half the time and she's unwilling to give this up..."whats the point if I can't enjoy it," she says... I have seen people on LHC with thin, fine hair who thought it wouldn't grow reach TBL, but often it involved a lot of microtrimming and keeping the hair in protective do's almost all the time so it didn't break off. Those people are monuments to perserverance and patience...

Based on what I've seen some people accomplish here, I think the worst thing you can do is not try. Even if it were "unrealistic" based on your hair type and family history (which I dont know) that doesn't equal impossible. But do be aware if you have thin, fine hair, that there's a possibility of not making it to goal, or not wanting to make it because your hair looks bad long.

Even if she was right, it was rude of her to say so. Leave that to your mother to say, or for you to figure out. Its also unprofessional. Her job SHOULD be to help you towards whatever style you want, not whichever one makes her money. And even if money were her goal, she would have made more money by encouraging you to grow it and come get monthly or bi monthly microtrims/dustings to keep it in shape while you do so,or if she sold you protective conditioner for promoting long hair... now she doesn't even have a client... what a tactless idiot.

Entangled
April 9th, 2016, 02:38 PM
I think it would depend on the tone, but I can imagine a comment like this in a non-rude way. For most people, seeing tailbone length hair is long, and if you're not in a particularly commonly seen long-hair location, you might not every have seen classic length or longer hair, or have seen a few. If you're closer friends, she might have been frank with you (My closer friends are much more willing to be frank with me and tell me that a goal is not realistic than an acquaintance, since they're acting in a capacity of trust and answer honestly. ("Does this dress make me look frumpy" "Yes. You might go for something else unless your heart's set on it" kind of a thing)) because she doesn't see extreme lengths as common unless you're a super-grower. (Lay people seem to think that if your hair is long, it must grow super fast.)

So she might have been completely honest and thinks that it is realistic. I know many people who think growing past BSL is impossible unless you've got magic hair powers. That doesn't mean she's right; I think it's a lot more possible to grow long hair than people realize, given patience and some knowledge of hair-friendly practices. If your goal is in the classic or above range, I think it's very likely to be realistic. Fingertip length and longer seems to depend more on DNA, so I see those as "Hoping goals."

Unrealistic might be expecting classic hair with no taper, or expecting floor length hair. Those are possible things that depend on DNA and thus are maybe too much to hope for because they're rare. Go forth and grow! the best solution to these kinds of interactions is to say nothing and let the results stand for themselves.

spidermom
April 9th, 2016, 04:21 PM
Thank you LHC for once again teaching me what the public at large considers rude. Before this enlightenment, if somebody stated what to me sounded like an unrealistic goal, I would certainly have shared my honest opinion. Now I know to smile and nod and think "good luck with that".

gregh
April 9th, 2016, 04:30 PM
You don't know if something is unrealistic until you try. I find that you surprise yourself a lot when you actually give something a go that you thought you couldn't achieve.

MsBubbles
April 9th, 2016, 04:36 PM
I'm so glad to be at an age now (late forties) where I just don't give much weight to other people's opinions, if they differ from mine! I feel free to disagree either in my head or out loud (if the situation warrants it), and then decide whether to associate with that person ever again or not. The world is a very big place. So I probably would've done the same thing as you and just conveniently forgotten her phone number and salon address. Hair stylists seem to be so much more opinionated than the average person, in my experience. Perhaps because they are used to people asking them their opinion on looks all day long at their job. Perhaps they lose sight of how to listen to their customers. Not all of them are like this, of course, but a whole lot of them seem to be.

chen bao jun
April 9th, 2016, 04:49 PM
It is unrealistic for most people to grow their hair to tailbone--if they go to a hairstylist who cuts off 6 inches every year, and fries and dyes them so the rest breaks off--and tells them that their hair looks bad at more than BSL if in spite of all that, it actually grows.

It is always uncalled for to discourage people and to decide what's unrealistic for them. Let's say someone has a goal of --going to the best college in the U.S. If they work hard at their grades and do extracurricular activities that count and concentrate on their SAT scores for the four years of high, they may in fact not make the college of their choice (if its got some of the acceptance rates these places do nowadays). But they will certain go to a very very good college. Better than they would have if someone had discouraged them and they hadn't been trying for the highest goal.

I think most people can get tailbone length hair anyway. It will take some of us an incredible amount of time, and if you're very curly, you may not look it (if you're as curly as me, you'd have to be knee length at least to look even close to tail-bone) but most people can make it. It's patience more than anything --and as I said, avoiding hair dressers.

4 years ago, I remember when I started LHC, I'd tell people I was going to grow to bra strap and they've say, Can you do that? in this unbelieving voice. When I said I'd had bra strap hair before, some people told me they wanted to see photos to see if it was true! I didn't bother to dig out my old photos and just ignored them. Now none of these people are saying anything. IRL people think you have to have special genes to have long hair. I myself used to think so. But its not true at all.

Vanilla Mint
April 9th, 2016, 05:09 PM
I don't think it was rude, especially since a lot of people probably don't even know how long hair can grow when properly cared for. Unless her delivery hinted at some sort of malice, I think she was probably wanting to "let you down easy" with the thought in mind that you may never reach your goal. I don't particularly think she was out of line, either, because it has to do with hair. There's a difference between "you shouldn't do this thing you want to do with your hair" and "I don't think your goals are realistic." All that being said, I can still imagine it leaving a sour taste in your mouth.

Entangled
April 9th, 2016, 05:31 PM
I don't think it was rude, especially since a lot of people probably don't even know how long hair can grow when properly cared for. Unless her delivery hinted at some sort of malice, I think she was probably wanting to "let you down easy" with the thought in mind that you may never reach your goal. I don't particularly think she was out of line, either, because it has to do with hair. There's a difference between "you shouldn't do this thing you want to do with your hair" and "I don't think your goals are realistic." All that being said, I can still imagine it leaving a sour taste in your mouth.

^^^ This.
I don't think it was rude, but it is hard to go to someone looking for encouragement only for them to say your goal's not realistic, even if by their standards it's true. Don't let it stop you; there's some pretty "unrealistic" heads of hair here!

butter52
April 9th, 2016, 05:36 PM
I thought she meant unrealistic in X months? I dont think that would be rude

papayatree
April 9th, 2016, 06:34 PM
The only unrealistic goal is the one that nobody has. If you think you can grow hair longer than 18 feet, since some woman in China has that, and you want the world's longest hair, then go for it. Is it likely, probably not, but is it impossible, no. As Shia LaBeouf says "nothing is impossible, so Just Do It"

MeganJoan
April 9th, 2016, 08:44 PM
I agree with others that it's kind of hard to say it's "rude" without knowing how it was said, etc but I personally wouldn't be getting someone to cut my hair who wasn't supportive of my goals either way.

I'm sure she meant well, and that in her experience it's unrealistic with her usual clients. And if her usual clients are getting frequent bleach, chemical dye, and cuts then it probably IS unrealistic for them.

I expect hairdressers see the percentage of the population who are least likely to be able to grow their hair this long. If people are going to a hairdresser to get their hair coloured it's often because it involves bleach and lightening. So, I do understand her perspective, but that doesn't make her perspective the only one, or the right one for your situation.

Christine_O
April 10th, 2016, 05:27 PM
Thanks all of you for your interesting responses!
To understand what was going on with me, you have to understand that when I was in my 20's my mother found out I wanted to make money singing, not even professionally. She told me if I tried I would fail. I was devastated, and never soloed in public again. When my sister told our mother that she was going into music professionally, she got the same response. She lived in a car for a couple of years, but she is now an internationally known folk musician.
I don't handle nay-sayers well at all. I'm turning 60 this year, and I finally mostly don't care what anybody says, but I do still crumple up a bit inside when I get this kind of response.
The person in question is likely not very good at filtering what she says. This is probably a good thing, because I know better than to go to her for an annual trim.

spirals
April 10th, 2016, 08:23 PM
I understand where you're coming from. I've read the responses and maybe she didn't mean any malice, but you're right: if she has no brain-to-mouth filter despite a generally good heart she's going to inadvertently discourage you and you should go to someone else. And I agree with whomever said that most people can't get to tailbone only because of artificial terminal created by chemicals, damage, and cutting. But really, they could if they tried. I bet you can get to tailbone. You have all the tools you need from this board.

Sarahlabyrinth
April 10th, 2016, 08:33 PM
I thought she meant unrealistic in X months? I dont think that would be rude

I thought this too. I must have misunderstood. If that isn't what she meant then yes, it was rude and not her business to be saying that, at all. Well, she's just lost herself a customer.

Ophidian
April 15th, 2016, 11:15 AM
Even if it was well-intended, I can really relate to that feeling of "crumpling inside" a little bit at comments like those. I have to work really hard to brush things off, even if rationally I know that I am taking it too much to heart.

I used to have waist length hair. My natural color isn't all that spectacular but it was healthy and shiny. I was going through some major life transitions and wanted a change so I went to a salon and asked for some long layers added (had a blunt cut at that time). The stylist held up a handful of my hair and said something along the lines of "oh yes we have to do something with this, it's like a ratty old curtain, just hanging there." I had come in asking for a change, so for all I know he just thought he was agreeing with my decision to change it, but as a result I ended up agreeing to something more drastic than what I had originally planned on, and ended up chopping it all off a week later.

Anyway, all that to say that even if she wasn't necessarily being rude, I understand that for some of us it can be hard to not let negative/unhelpful comments get us down a bit. We just have to remember that we are mighty oaks, not little nuts! :).