Fed up with hair!

[mariazelie]

I have been reading this site for several years now, and I have learned so much. At this moment I just want to RANT to anyone who will listen. I have had it with my hair, tangles, products, haircuts, and a tender scalp. I have recently had the flu, mild depression due to family events and just need to get it all out. I battle tangles in wet hair, which is fine, thin, and difficult. I have noticed that when I shampoo, no matter what I try, it seems to make my hair tangly. I got my hair shaped up last Thursday and the beautician used Tresseme Anti Sponge (????, I looked it up, but still....) and my hair after two more shampoos is flat and awful. I have read about poo bars, tangle teasers, and water only, conditioner only (I tried it) and lots of other things. Several times I have remembered growing up in a boating family, on lakes in Ohio and Tennessee, spending the day in the water, that I never went home with matted tangled hair. It's like the shampoo and conditioner do something awful to my hair. So just now I took a shower and washed my hair with nothing but water. When it dries I'll see what it is like, but it sure was easy to comb out. Can anyone relate to this? Just being fed up with cones, sulfates, no sulfates, on and on, and buying into the product/market thing? I feel better. Thank you to anyone who read this. If there is anyone who can identify and make me feel less crazy, please make a post!

[Simsy]

Deep breath...do you feel better having got that off your chest? :flower:

As you have discovered through trial and error (welcome to the maze), hair does its own thing. There is no rule that says you must use any particular product or method of washing. I get the impression from your rant that water only works rather well for you, at least for now. Conditioner only obviously doesn't work for you, and shampoo and conditioner seems to be causing more problems than solutions.

The golden rule around site is "its not what you want for your hair, it's what your hair wants". You are going in the right direction, and if your hair drys nicer from water only, I would personally stick with that.

Good luck and happy growing

[Qz]

I think it's great to engage in a healthy rant when you're at the end of your rope (or hair!), it can take some of the pressure off of you! I have days I'd like to shave my head and just forget about hair at all, then the next day I'm happy with it again and glad I left it alone. It sounds like you're finding solutions that work for you, and that's awesome.

[mariazelie]

Thank you Simsy and Qz. Actually my hair looks rather nice now that it has dried, without any product, and without any styling, than it has in quite a long time. We shall see what happens in the future! I have three shampoos that I have been rotating, and it is a headache trying to guess which product my hair is going to respond to. And I am not kidding about the tangles. I am not sure how all that works, but I am convinced that the products mat up my micro fine hair. Most of the time it is doable, but what a breeze it was with just water. Guess I'll have to "go jump in the Lake" as the old saying goes, and thanks for the moral support. I like what Simsy said about what my hair wants, not what I want. I would be completely ignorant about all things hair over the past few years without this forum. I was just so fed up with the idea that the next product was going to solve my problem.....and maybe it will, once in a while. I would not have ever thought about just water, if I hadn't read so much here about what others have done. Thanks, ladies!

[Simsy]

Glad to hear you're feeling better, and your hair is settling down. :grin: Sometimes the simple solutions are the best.

[spirals]

I empathize so much with you. My hair is not naturally curly; it's naturally tangly! But I see yours really isn't; it was just the shampoo. It's just so drying. I don't use it anymore (soap, ACV, conditioner isntead).

[lapushka]

I have been reading this site for several years now, and I have learned so much. At this moment I just want to RANT to anyone who will listen. I have had it with my hair, tangles, products, haircuts, and a tender scalp. I have recently had the flu, mild depression due to family events and just need to get it all out.

Trust me that is the *worst* time to make decisions about your hair.


I battle tangles in wet hair, which is fine, thin, and difficult. I have noticed that when I shampoo, no matter what I try, it seems to make my hair tangly. I got my hair shaped up last Thursday and the beautician used Tresseme Anti Sponge (????, I looked it up, but still....) and my hair after two more shampoos is flat and awful. I have read about poo bars, tangle teasers, and water only, conditioner only (I tried it) and lots of other things. Several times I have remembered growing up in a boating family, on lakes in Ohio and Tennessee, spending the day in the water, that I never went home with matted tangled hair. It's like the shampoo and conditioner do something awful to my hair. So just now I took a shower and washed my hair with nothing but water. When it dries I'll see what it is like, but it sure was easy to comb out. Can anyone relate to this? Just being fed up with cones, sulfates, no sulfates, on and on, and buying into the product/market thing? I feel better. Thank you to anyone who read this. If there is anyone who can identify and make me feel less crazy, please make a post!

Are you using things with silicones in. Heavier moisturizing conditioners such as the Garnier Whole Blends mythic olive or the Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. I would totally recommend both.

I got tangles past BSL with silicone-free conditioners. Longer than BSL and it's an awful mess without those ingredients.

Check your labels on the bottles you're using. In fact, what products are you using now. It's kind of hard to give advice without knowing that, at least.

[spidermom]

There are so many options. If water only makes your life easier, go for it! I do have a couple of other questions and suggestions, though, just in case water only doesn't give the results you want.

Do you leave your hair hanging as you wash it or do you bundle it up? Sometimes I bend forward with my hair falling in front of me, sometimes I stand with my hair hanging down my back. I personally try to mess my hair around as little as possible when I wash it and make motions over my scalp with my fingers like I'm finger combing it. Sometimes I use a shower comb over my scalp. I also dilute my shampoo in some warm water.

A good time to comb your hair the first time is with conditioner in it. After rinsing, again try to mess your hair around as little as possible while you squeeze out the excess water with a towel, Tshirt, or flannel pillowcase (<~that what I use).

[mariazelie]

Trust me that is the *worst* time to make decisions about your hair.



Are you using things with silicones in. Heavier moisturizing conditioners such as the Garnier Whole Blends mythic olive or the Herbal Essences Hello Hydration. I would totally recommend both.

I got tangles past BSL with silicone-free conditioners. Longer than BSL and it's an awful mess without those ingredients.

Check your labels on the bottles you're using. In fact, what products are you using now. It's kind of hard to give advice without knowing that, at least.

I was alternating no cones, no sulfates and cones, but just got fed up as I said. At this point the water only thing is the happiest my hair has been. I'll see how long it lasts. I just got so tired of all those ingredients. What works once doesn't work the next time, and on and on. And whatever that Tresseme Anti Sponge stuff had in it made my hair so limp and lifeless it took two shampoos to get back to what I consider "normal" for me and then I just decided to give it all up and try WO. After the second WO wash (still wet right now) I will see what happens.

[mariazelie]

There are so many options. If water only makes your life easier, go for it! I do have a couple of other questions and suggestions, though, just in case water only doesn't give the results you want.

Do you leave your hair hanging as you wash it or do you bundle it up? Sometimes I bend forward with my hair falling in front of me, sometimes I stand with my hair hanging down my back. I personally try to mess my hair around as little as possible when I wash it and make motions over my scalp with my fingers like I'm finger combing it. Sometimes I use a shower comb over my scalp. I also dilute my shampoo in some warm water.

A good time to comb your hair the first time is with conditioner in it. After rinsing, again try to mess your hair around as little as possible while you squeeze out the excess water with a towel, Tshirt, or flannel pillowcase (<~that what I use).

Spidermom, I just try to move my hair as little as possible, that is good advice you have, and I had read that somewhere. I have even tried washing with a braid, but that was when my hair was BSL. Now my hair is just collar bone. My hair is shorter now because I got so fed up with the tangles, especially in Winter. At this point, I will see how the WO works and if it does, growing longer will be okay again.Thanks for your comment. When I was little my mom always lathered up my hair on top of my head and scrubbed it around. For years I thought that was the way to go without question. Thankfully I wised up along the way! And she used to hate my tangles...guess some of us aren't too bright!

[spidermom]

It doesn't help that pretty much every picture of a woman washing her hair has it all bundled up at the top of her head.

[Dommydomdom]

Glad that you're trying WO and that it is working out for you at the moment. I'm sure you know this (especially if you've been lurking on the WO thread) but just be prepared to go through a transition period. And that it might be really ugly and gross if you haven't clarified your hair first. My transition was a nightmare that lasted 5 or 6 months. Then I gave up and used diluted castille soap and ACV rinses. But wasn't quite happy with my shedding having increased. So now I'm back on WO and didn't have much of a transition. My hair is so much happier and nicer looking.

Good luck!

[embee]

I found WO was quite good. Seemed like my hair dried faster too, which was very nice. Hope it continues to work well for you. Shampoo is great for washing wool sweaters! :)

[mariazelie]

Glad that you're trying WO and that it is working out for you at the moment. I'm sure you know this (especially if you've been lurking on the WO thread) but just be prepared to go through a transition period. And that it might be really ugly and gross if you haven't clarified your hair first. My transition was a nightmare that lasted 5 or 6 months. Then I gave up and used diluted castille soap and ACV rinses. But wasn't quite happy with my shedding having increased. So now I'm back on WO and didn't have much of a transition. My hair is so much happier and nicer looking.

Good luck!Dommydomdom, I am not sure I know much of anything! One thing that is confusing to me is all the talk about sebum. At my age, 62, oil is a long gone memory for my hair in between washes. Am I to expect to have sebum now? I have been wondering....I have read the thread on WO and I am just not sure what happens in my case.

[spirals]

At my age, 62, oil is a long gone memory for my hair in between washes.It's not necessarily age, either. I'm 42 and while I have oily skin, my scalp sebum's the drier kind that doesn't get down the hair shaft. So with WO I'd still have to oil my hair. I've had dry scalp/hair my whole life except for a time in puberty before my hormones settled down.

[MsBubbles]

I notice you are a 1a/F...well pretty much anything I do to my hair will leave it flat. And if I wear my hair down at all it tangles. :shrug: If you find a wonder-routine or discover a wonder-product that takes care of these things, market it and sell it! I will buy it!

If I went out on a boat without my hair secured in a tight bun or braids, it'd take me hours to get the knots out afterwards. If I ever wear my hair down, it's indoors!

[mariazelie]

I notice you are a 1a/F...well pretty much anything I do to my hair will leave it flat. And if I wear my hair down at all it tangles. :shrug: If you find a wonder-routine or discover a wonder-product that takes care of these things, market it and sell it! I will buy it!

If I went out on a boat without my hair secured in a tight bun or braids, it'd take me hours to get the knots out afterwards. If I ever wear my hair down, it's indoors!
I grew up boating, and being in the water all day. I just can't remember having any disasters with tangles, other than what would be expected. But after I wash my hair, depending on what shampoo or conditioner (and it is not consistent) I can see if I look closely that my hair is not smooth on one end of the scale and completely matted on the other end.
I do have issues with the "flat" too, but the WO has added a bit of volume. I am still experimenting. My hair isn't really very long at this time, either. Do you WO? Or have you ever tried it? This is not an easy hair type, is it? I describe my hair as that of a little girl!

[mariazelie]

It's not necessarily age, either. I'm 42 and while I have oily skin, my scalp sebum's the drier kind that doesn't get down the hair shaft. So with WO I'd still have to oil my hair. I've had dry scalp/hair my whole life except for a time in puberty before my hormones settled down.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. What to expect with the sebum. I have just been washing my hair every couple days or so, not stretching washes or anything, like I did with shampoo, because this WO thing has been kind of fun. Would it be better to stretch the washes?

[01]

I have been reading this site for several years now, and I have learned so much. At this moment I just want to RANT to anyone who will listen. I have had it with my hair, tangles, products, haircuts, and a tender scalp. Just being fed up with cones, sulfates, no sulfates, on and on, and buying into the product/market thing? I feel better. Thank you to anyone who read this. If there is anyone who can identify and make me feel less crazy, please make a post! Hell yes! I'm sooo tired of products, even natural ones like oils and herbs. Some natural stuff helped me but none solved my hair problems permamently. I get like different hair textures with different products. My hair never have one form. I never know what to expect. Oils help with tangles but leave my hair oily. Herbs give me looser or tighter textures depending on the herb. Don't help with tangles. And conventional products... Well, they just kill my scalp. My scalp can only handle WO really. CO gave me something like 3b curls but my scalp hurted. Shampoo gives me just poofy staticky hair with no form. No curl just static. And itchy scalp. Even brushes and combs are an issue, I had a lot of damage from brushing and improper combing.
One thing that is confusing to me is all the talk about sebum. At my age, 62, oil is a long gone memory for my hair in between washes. Am I to expect to have sebum now? I have been wondering....I have read the thread on WO and I am just not sure what happens in my case. I experienced dryness on each of my WO attempts. This time I wrapped my hair in silk scarf and took 1hr nap. When I woke up my hair were covered in sebum. Magic! Maybe it'll work for you.
I notice you are a 1a/F...well pretty much anything I do to my hair will leave it flat. And if I wear my hair down at all it tangles. If you find a wonder-routine or discover a wonder-product that takes care of these things, market it and sell it! I will buy it! Wow, I didn't knew straight hair types had such problems with tangles! I'm F too, though.

[AJNinami]

It might be a difference in water hardness from where you grew up, have you chelated recently?

Also, I'm very sorry that you're going through this. :grouphug: Tangles are the beast. My mother cut my sister's hair to a pixie last year because her hair tangles so badly.

[spirals]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. What to expect with the sebum. I have just been washing my hair every couple days or so, not stretching washes or anything, like I did with shampoo, because this WO thing has been kind of fun. Would it be better to stretch the washes?

I've never done WO and I can't figure it out, either. I would love to stretch a week but my scalp gets buildup (waxy sebum) which wouldn't bother me except that the yeasties love it and make my scalp itch. *sigh*

[Dommydomdom]

Dommydomdom, I am not sure I know much of anything! One thing that is confusing to me is all the talk about sebum. At my age, 62, oil is a long gone memory for my hair in between washes. Am I to expect to have sebum now? I have been wondering....I have read the thread on WO and I am just not sure what happens in my case.

That's what I'm trying to figure out. What to expect with the sebum. I have just been washing my hair every couple days or so, not stretching washes or anything, like I did with shampoo, because this WO thing has been kind of fun. Would it be better to stretch the washes?

I don't know if your lack of sebum is because of your age, how often you wash your hair, or some other factor. But here are a few thoughts:
1. very little sebum is a WO washer's dream! Once you get into it properly, you might only need to wash your hair once a month and it will still look gorgeous and healthy the whole time :) But in the meantime, I would wash my hair as often as you feel is necessary. In my experience, it is better to wait until you are 100% sure that you have transitioned before trying to stretch washes. Currently, I only need to wash my hair once every 2 weeks.
2. If you are concerned about moisture/conditioning - try light oiling the ends with either shea butter, coconut oil, or any other oil that penetrates the hair shaft well. Or you could try doing acid rinses (like ACV) - they are super conditioning once you find the right dilution for your hair (I use 1 tbsp per liter of filtered water). You can also try WO on your scalp only then s&c your length or just CO your length for moisture :)
3. SMP (scritch, massage, preen) is essential to the WO routine - scritching is when you use the back of your nails or a comb to gently scratch your scalp and loosen up any dirt or flakes, massaging (pretty self-explanatory) will stimulate your scalp and help produce sebum (you will probably need to focus on this quite a bit), and preening is when you use your fingers/a fine-toothed comb/BBB to pull the sebum from your scalp/roots down to the ends of your hair (https://almostexactlyblog.com/2014/06/08/scritch-preen/ - great video explaining the whole process).

I think that you will see an increase in the production of sebum, or at least you will notice a build-up since you aren't stripping it from your hair with shampoo. But, I guess only time will tell - WO is a very personal hair care experience, no two WO washers are alike and we all individualize our routine to suit our specific needs.


It might be a difference in water hardness from where you grew up, have you chelated recently?

Also, I'm very sorry that you're going through this. :grouphug: Tangles are the beast. My mother cut my sister's hair to a pixie last year because her hair tangles so badly.

Yeah, water hardness could be a big factor - and if you are doing WO, you will need to clarify your hair (I use a slightly stronger ACV/water dilution)


I've never done WO and I can't figure it out, either. I would love to stretch a week but my scalp gets buildup (waxy sebum) which wouldn't bother me except that the yeasties love it and make my scalp itch. *sigh*

The itchies do go crazy in the first few weeks of stretching washes and WO - but they usually settle down once your scalp has adjusted to your new schedule and doesn't produce as much sebum. You could also try SMP between your usual s&c washes to help move sebum away from your scalp. Or, you could do WO on your length and shampoo your scalp.

[Christine_O]

I totally understand your frustration. There are days when the bun falls apart every time I try to put the fork in, or the braid unravels while I'm trying to tie the end every time I try, and I just want to give up. And then the next day I'm perfectly coiffed and my hair looks wonderful.

I'm going to give my favorite solution a go here. I have to wash with medicated shampoo practically every day or my psoriasis acts up and I start losing hair (among other negative things that happen.)
When I was much younger I would go out skiing or hiking or boating or whatever in the worst weather that Alaska has to offer, either with a cap on my head or not, with my long locks flapping around in the breeze or getting rained on or getting frozen shudder:, and suffered very little damage. Now when I go out in a stiff breeze my length dries out terribly.
My solution has been to rub in just a little light oil (like sweet almond oil) to the length and leave it in overnight. At the worst I have to do that 2 nights in a row. It has worked brilliantly for me.

[mariazelie]

Thanks dommydomdom for your information. I watched the video and will persevere in this WO. I think my hair has lost a bit of shine, the volume is much more than before, it is almost like I have someone else's hair! But that is okay, because I was ready to trade mine in and this is fun. Washing is a snap, no fooling around with bottles and endless steps, NO tangles like I always had in the past. I noticed yesterday it smelled funny and I was a bit put off. I saw some comments about that in the WO Thread. Any comments on that? Last night, after washing, the bit of natural wave I have was more than ever, but this morning it was pretty much gone when I woke up. At any rate, my hair seems to take on a bit of natural shape after the first day, which I like well enough. If nothing else, this is a very interesting experiment. I will try the ACV rinse next time for the heck of it. Thanks for all the comments.

[Dommydomdom]

Thanks dommydomdom for your information. I think my hair has lost a bit of shine, the volume is much more than before, it is almost like I have someone else's hair! I noticed yesterday it smelled funny and I was a bit put off. Any comments on that? Last night, after washing, the bit of natural wave I have was more than ever, but this morning it was pretty much gone when I woke up.

The shine will definitely come back after a few days of preening, most people (including myself) see an increase in shine :D same with volume. Some people (like myself) lose some of their wave/curl, but others have theirs enhanced with WO - only time will tell what yours will do. For the smell...definitely scritch and preen/BBB (this will help the most). But if you still want to have "nice" smelling hair (I put it in inverted commas because I don't mind the natural hair smell at all actually, but sometimes do miss the smell of shampoo and conditioner) then you can mix a little spray bottle with some distilled/filtered water and a few drops of your favorite EO's (just make sure that you don't overdo it with the EO's as they are quite potent sometimes and also make sure that they are good for hair - geranium, lavender, and rose are my favorites) and lightly spritz your hair when you want some scent. The distilled water will ensure that the mixture doesn't go moldy or rancid for a while, but always check the bottle before you use it just to be sure. And it's a pleasure :) come say hi on the WO thread (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=3412) sometime! There is a lot of important info there and so many helpful and wonderful people!

[spidermom]

Last night, after washing, the bit of natural wave I have was more than ever, but this morning it was pretty much gone when I woke up. At any rate, my hair seems to take on a bit of natural shape after the first day, which I like well enough. If nothing else, this is a very interesting experiment. I will try the ACV rinse next time for the heck of it. Thanks for all the comments.

Type 1a hair has no natural wave at all. Your avatar photo appears to have 1c wave at least, and if that's brushed or combed out hair, you might have enough wave to qualify as 2a. How/why did you choose 1a as your hair type?

[lapushka]

I've never done WO and I can't figure it out, either. I would love to stretch a week but my scalp gets buildup (waxy sebum) which wouldn't bother me except that the yeasties love it and make my scalp itch. *sigh*

If it does that, definitely wash. It's not worth it. I can stretch a week before that happens, thanks to a while of needing to go 2 weeks without washing (medical reasons). After that a week was a breeze, but I also got a major SD flare-up that needed resolving first.

[MsBubbles]

I grew up boating, and being in the water all day. I just can't remember having any disasters with tangles, other than what would be expected. But after I wash my hair, depending on what shampoo or conditioner (and it is not consistent) I can see if I look closely that my hair is not smooth on one end of the scale and completely matted on the other end.
I do have issues with the "flat" too, but the WO has added a bit of volume. I am still experimenting. My hair isn't really very long at this time, either. Do you WO? Or have you ever tried it? This is not an easy hair type, is it? I describe my hair as that of a little girl!

I grew up at the beach and remember my mother yanking the knots out of my hair with either a hair brush or a very fine toothed comb. Yikes.

No, I have never tried WO, because I am just a greasy-scalped person. More grease just flattens it even more!

[mariazelie]

Type 1a hair has no natural wave at all. Your avatar photo appears to have 1c wave at least, and if that's brushed or combed out hair, you might have enough wave to qualify as 2a. How/why did you choose 1a as your hair type?

I typed my hair when I first joined and I probably did it wrong. I found all of it confusing and never went back to recheck. I will do so. My hair in the avatar is longer than it is right now, too by a few inches and as I recall it was brushed out, but may have some braid wave. My top layer is the straightest, with the sides fairly straight and the most wave at the bottom in the back, hiding under a layer of less wave. I will check the typing information. Thank you, spidermom.

[spirals]

If it does that, definitely wash. It's not worth it. I can stretch a week before that happens, thanks to a while of needing to go 2 weeks without washing (medical reasons). After that a week was a breeze, but I also got a major SD flare-up that needed resolving first.

I agree. It's just annoying, but if I plan I can get a wash in. Can you tell I don't like planning? I tend to fly by the seat of my pants because I work retail, and that describes my whole day.

[mariazelie]

I typed my hair when I first joined and I probably did it wrong. I found all of it confusing and never went back to recheck. I will do so. My hair in the avatar is longer than it is right now, too by a few inches and as I recall it was brushed out, but may have some braid wave. My top layer is the straightest, with the sides fairly straight and the most wave at the bottom in the back, hiding under a layer of less wave. I will check the typing information. Thank you, spidermom.

I found the visual hair typing guide and tried the whole procedure again. I would say my hair is 2a spidermom. Thank you for pointing it out. I came up with a 2.5 on the circumference when I measured the ponytail, but my hair is most definitely fine...baby hair fine. Now I need to edit my profile and get a new avatar.