My acid mantle – I want it back!

[Kuchen]

Between mega-hard water and skin that tends to dry/ecsema, I'm usually casting around for a way to keep my hair moisturised. Just now, after another foray into COing and scalp oiling, I am shedding hugely. And this hasn't happened to me before - never this bad.
I *think* the problem's with my scalp's acid mantle, but the thing is, what do I do now? ACV with every wash? Buy a ph neutral shampoo?

[harpgal]

Hello, my dear. :waving: If I were you, I would try to get as much of your ACV rinse down to your scalp area. Also, using a shampoo that is more on the acidic side will help. I, too, have very hard water and have to rinse after every wash with 3 cups of distilled water plus 1 or 2 Tablespoons of ACV.

Shedding happens to all of us. Just recently, I found out that I was very low on iron and since taking a bit more of that, my shedding is not as bad. However, at this time of the year, I always shed a great deal more than normal.

[wendyg]

1) Shower filter that removes some of the hardness.

2) Final rinse with a little vinegar or lemon juice added to change the pH.

3) Try using cleansers such as Lowila or Aveeno that are meant for skin prone to eczema and other forms of dermatitis. They work perfectly well on my hair (especially Lowila), and if you wash just the scalp lightly you won't need as much conditioner. I only use a small amount of leave-in and no conditioner at all.

wg

[Tai Shan Fan]

I'm shedding a lot right now and I think others are too, so some of your problem might be seasonal? :flower:

Seasonal shedding aside, I've had the same problem with my skin before, but what fixed it for me was using a much gentler cleansing method and changing products, as what I used wasn't suiting me. The acid-mantle is easily disrupted in some (like me!) and you need to give your skin/scalp the right conditions to heal itself and it can.

If I was in your shoes, I'd forget CO for a bit and try a shampoo, used very dilute and aiming not to get a proper lather when you wash, ie you'll use less product and then some conditioner on the length, avoiding the scalp.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

I also noticed a difference when I changed from washing head-back, to head forward - if that makes sense. I get flaking after using shampoo on the area near my forehead. When I changed to head forward, the majority of shampoo 'hits' the greasier underlayers first, which is where I want it.

[Tabitha]

I find CO makes me shed a lot more.

And if you don't like the smell of vinegar, I've had great success using half a teaspoon of citric acid powder in a pint of filtered water as a final rinse.

[ktani]

Kuchen

I pmed you some information on the acid mantle and suggestions for rinses.

I also suggest using a shampoo with an acidic pH.

[Kuchen]

Thank you everyone for answering the bat phone! :flowers:

Harp Gal – hello too! I was locked out of LHC for a while and got a surprising amount of work done :smile: but I couldn't stay away too long. I have a Lush shampoo that's full of fruit and pretty acid. I think I'll wash thoroughly with that and follow with an ACV rinse to re-set, then get a very plain Lavera shampoo for normal use.
I have cut down on the amount of meat I eat for ethical/environmental reasons, so that may be a factor, but my scalp is also sort of hot and irritated, so I thought I'd tackle that first (plus I've eaten about a bushel of spinach this week). I do need to educate myself a bit more about alternative proteins though.

Wendy g – are those UK brands? I'll look out for them on my next trip.

Tai Shan Fan – I've had seasonal sheds before, but this really has been humungous – just running my hands through my hair loosened ten or more strands at a time. Will definitely switch to a gentler shampoo, and you're absolutely right about the head-forward shampooing. It also takes some of the damage of the canopy/top of head, where I have a whole pineapple-top of short hairs that never seem to get longer...

Tabitha – yep, that was my last experiment with CO, I think. I just need to learn scalp washing and to oil my length more. Shampoo seems to suit my scalp best.

Ktani – thank you so much! I will go and look through that now.

[Melisande]

Dilute shampoo! I'm always surprised how strong Lush shampoos are even when diluted.

My water is very hard, too, but my hair is used to it by now and looks flat and dull when I travel to places with soft water.

I second the citric acid rinse. You may add citric acid to your shampoo when you dilute it.

Usually the acid mantle re-establishes itself quickly, in spite of the frightening commercials that present it as terribly vulnerable. They do so in order to sell more synthetic tensids or detergents as opposed to classical soap which is alcalic. But even if you wash with soap, the skin will restore the acid mantle quickly and without help.

[trolleypup]

I do a white vinegar rinse at the end of every hair wash...not so stinky as ACV, keeps my scalp happy.

[ktani]

You should not need to add something acidic to a shampoo that already is acidic, just because you dilute it.

If you go too acidic, you can wind up with similar problems to using something alkaline, dry, unmanagable hair.

I am not sure of the pH of Lush shampoos. It might be worth your while to invest in buying paper pH strips. You only really need the ones that measure between say pH 4.5 - 7.5.

That way, you will know what you are dealing with, in terms of what you buy and the pH of what you create with rinses.

Another option, is to buy some distilled or deionized water, to wash you hair, in addition to using acidic products, and use it as a final rinse.

With hard water, the minerals can as big a problem as the pH can be. A water filter can help but most do not reduce the mineral content of water, just impurities and some chemicals. Only certain reverse osmosis ones do that. I checked into that when researching mineral free water for Honey. Here is one link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water

[Katze]

Vinegar helps me to some extent; I dilute it, and alternate vinegar rinse and scalp massage with water rinse and scalp massage, ending with water.

The other great ingredient is honey. In addition to moisturizing, it is antibacterial and for me does a wonderful job of calming the itching. When I'm getting eczema, I also wash my face with honey and do honey masks.

As far as skin eczema OCM is good, but don't expect miracles (as in instant cures or blackheads being zapped). The oil and steaming seem to really help calm everything down, though I do still get minor patches.

are you eating enough good fats? try adding some fish oil to your diet. I get salmon oil capsules at my Apotheke, and they help with mood, as well as making my baby a smart one. :D

[Kuchen]

Thank you for all the extra tips - I'm still checking and pondering :flowers:

The Lush shampoo is harsh, but I think it got the last of the oil off my scalp. The vinegar rinse was thorough too, and my shedding has reduced drastically :yippee:

I have some salmon oil too; I have phases of taking it, but should start again as obviously moisturising from the outside isn't working for me. Best to try it from the inside.

I'm leery of honey as it's never worked on my hair, though I do a honey face mask from time to time. For skin I just largely steer clear of soap. Oddly (or maybe not oddly at all) the routine I've been using for my face for some time now with great results, is a sort of micro version of the gentle cleanser/ACV to follow routine. I should remember that the skin on my head is the same, whether it's on the front or the top of my head :silly:

[LuXious]

Have you tried Dabur Vatika Oil? I saw an unbelievable reduction in shedding almost immediately. I'm talkin', from a huge clump in the drain to just a little ploopy. Your problem may be very different, but it's worth a try. That stuff is amazing.

[ktani]

Thank you for all the extra tips - I'm still checking and pondering :flowers:

The Lush shampoo is harsh, but I think it got the last of the oil off my scalp. The vinegar rinse was thorough too, and my shedding has reduced drastically :yippee:

I have some salmon oil too; I have phases of taking it, but should start again as obviously moisturising from the outside isn't working for me. Best to try it from the inside.

I'm leery of honey as it's never worked on my hair, though I do a honey face mask from time to time. For skin I just largely steer clear of soap. Oddly (or maybe not oddly at all) theroutine I've been using for my face for some time now with great results, is a sort of micro version of the gentle cleanser/ACV to follow routine. I should remember that the skin on my head is the same, whether it's on the front or the top of my head :silly:

Different honeys have different capabilities in terms of anibacterial effects and peroxide levels. All of that is determined by the plant source.

For medicinal use, UMF Manuka honey is highly recommnded. Its antibacterial activity is 2 fold. It has a fairly high peroxide level but it also has a secondary antibacterial source. It is expensive but not when you work it out over time. I have a jar specifically for medicinal use. Honey lasts a long time, properly stored. http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=297048&postcount=2375

You could do a scalp only treatment with diluted Manuka honey. You can leave it on for about 10 minutes. That would not be long enough to lighten your hair at the roots.

Honey residue, which can leave hair dry, is easily removed with shampoo. Any shampoo will do.

[rhubarbarin]

Can you still do vinegar rinses if you wash with shampoo??

[trolleypup]

Can you still do vinegar rinses if you wash with shampoo??
Sure. Shouldn't be a problem.

[ktani]

Can you still do vinegar rinses if you wash with shampoo??

For the hair cuticle, you should not need to use a vinegar rinse after an acidic shampoo.

As a scalp treatment, no problem.

Most vinegars contain the same amount of acetic acid, around 5%. What makes the difference with a vinegar rinse, is the dilution.

It the rinse is too strong, you can have both dry scalp and hair.

[NightDaemon]

Honey lasts a long time, properly stored.
Honey's the only food that never goes off. Worst that will happen is crystalisation, in which case just put the jar (with lid on) in hot water for a bit. Other than that, all you need to worry about is running out ;)

[Kuchen]

I do have Dabur Vatika and like using it on my length, but I'm not putting it on my scalp again – for me it seems to be counterproductive. Ditto for honey (and manuka's a bit beyond my budget) – it obviously works wonderfully for some people but not for me :flowers:

[danacc]

Since you've cut back on meat recently, you need to take a look at iron, too. It's actually much more common to become borderline-to-fully anemic on a vegetarian diet. Even borderline anemia can increase hair loss. If your increased shedding is continuing, have your blood iron level tested.

I don't want to discourage you from taking a look at your protein intake. But it is actually difficult to take in sufficient calories without getting enough protein, even when you cut out meat, eggs, and dairy altogether. It is much easier to have your iron level dip too low.

[ChloeDharma]

Have you seen Jojo's thread on diluting shampoo with aloe gel? That might be worth trying out.
I use ACV rinses without rinsing out and find them fantastic to the point it can make my hair feel as slippery as a conditioner.