Keeping buns from untwisting

[SparrowWings]

One of my biggest problems with buns, and the main reason I tend to stick with a braid/braided ponytail, is that I can almost never convince the bun to stay where I put it -- unless I make it so tight that it hurts. The bun itself won't come undone, but if I finish it, and put the stick in to hold it, as soon as I move my head, the stick moves too. So if I put the stick in horizontally, shake my head a tiny bit, and the stick'll be vertical instead. The bun itself will still be tight, but not tight against my head, which results in it jiggling around as I move, and pulling in uncomfortable ways, and eventually probably shaking itself out entirely. I'm definitely grabbing hair against my scalp when I put the stick in, and I can feel it pulling the grabbed hair when it untwists. But I still can't usually make it stay put. Is there some trick that I'm missing? Does anyone else have this problem too?

[Seeshami]

I bribe his highness with cookies. Generally it doesn't work.

The naughty mess says, "Some one needs to push the button and it will be me"

[meteor]

I have the same problem. That's why I stick with braided buns - they hold *a lot* tighter. Almost all buns out there can be started with a braid (or a few braids). ;)

For example, I'd recommend checking out the Braided LWB, Ellingwoman Braided Bun, Braided Nautilus, Braided Cinnabun, Amish Braided Bun, Pinless French Braided Bun, Braided L-Infinity Bun, Spidermom's (double-loop) Braided Bun, etc...


If you've already mastered the basic pinning motion with a stick (e.g. by torrinpaige: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWf4ElyLAAE) but the stick still doesn't hold tightly enough this way, try starting with the Pha Bun's first twist (it's very tight) and then wrap the hair around after.

[EdG]

Use two sticks and place them at right angles.

Some amount of unraveling is normal, especially right after washing. By the second day, the bun will hold better.
Ed

[Groovy Granny]

I have the same issue because my hair is fine and sleek in dry air.

Usually center held buns are better for me; if I do a cinnamon bun I use alligator clips, mini claws, or a ficcare to hold it securely.

Cinnamon buns have been more secure with my longer length now, and I am testing it out more by using spin pins along with my sticks and forks.

Braiding helps a lot.....and occasionally having a ponytail base.

[lapushka]

That's why I use 2-prong forks. Try putting a second stick in, 90° to the other one. It might work.

[Anje]

Braided buns and center-held buns work a lot better for me in this regard. Cinnamon buns untwist like crazy for me.

[Nini]

Do you make sure to weave it into your scalp hair a couple of times? That's what I have to do. And two-prong, curved forks have always been sturdier in my fine and slippery hair.

I can't do messy buns either, there has to be a certain amount of tension, both in the coils themselves in betweeen my scalp and the bun.

Hope you figure it out:)

[Amapola]

I have some hair toys that are a little heavy for my fine, thin and slick hair. So to get these to stay where I put them, I use a spin pin (or two, or three and sometimes FOUR) to stabilize the bun.

Also, have you tried a Ficcare? These don't turn much on me at all. There are days when my hair is feeling like unwinding but if I put the Ficcare in from the top (like in my avatar) sort of at 1:00 pointing down to 7:00, it balances and stays still. Now, by the end of the day, it might have slipped down to 2:00 or 3:00 but it does not let go its grip on my hair, and my hair does not escape it. There is a trick to it and it takes practice, but this is what I wear pretty much every day, and I live on a farm and do chores outside everyday.

[mira-chan]

That's why I use 2-prong forks. Try putting a second stick in, 90° to the other one. It might work.

I get rotation (hair clock? :lol: ) even with 4 prong forks and some with braided buns. Ficcarre and claw clips are the only safe bets for me.

[SparrowWings]

Wow, so many responses! You guys make me feel so much better about this. I've just assumed I'm an incompetent bunner, only worsened by slippery hair, but it looks like I'm not alone, yay!


I have the same problem. That's why I stick with braided buns - they hold *a lot* tighter. Almost all buns out there can be started with a braid (or a few braids). ;)

For example, I'd recommend checking out the Braided LWB, Ellingwoman Braided Bun, Braided Nautilus, Braided Cinnabun, Amish Braided Bun, Pinless French Braided Bun, Braided L-Infinity Bun, Spidermom's (double-loop) Braided Bun, etc...


If you've already mastered the basic pinning motion with a stick (e.g. by torrinpaige: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWf4ElyLAAE) but the stick still doesn't hold tightly enough this way, try starting with the Pha Bun's first twist (it's very tight) and then wrap the hair around after.
I actually have a different problem with braided buns -- or rather, braid-as-a-base buns if it's not a braided ponytail base. Thanks again to having such slippery hair, if I don't have a tight ponytail and a tight braid to work together at stabilizing the base against my head, whatever I do will loosen itself from the center. A ponytail alone will slip right down, and a braid alone will shove the braid-start at least an inch down as well, no matter how tightly I braid the top. Ironically, anything that I just twist to start, with no defined base, doesn't do that -- it just untwists itself entirely.

That said, a pony-braid-cinnabun is what I usually do when I bother with a bun. It's just not worth making it a bun most of the time, when it's already braided anyhow. So I was hoping to come up with something that would work without the pony-braid, for variety. I'll have a look at all the other options you listed; maybe one of them will suit!


Use two sticks and place them at right angles.
I should try that. I never have used two sticks, but that's only because I only have one... I used to have another, but my silly bun snapped it a couple years back, and there was just no repairing it well enough after that. At least the replacement one I have now is unbreakable!


Do you make sure to weave it into your scalp hair a couple of times? That's what I have to do. And two-prong, curved forks have always been sturdier in my fine and slippery hair.

I can't do messy buns either, there has to be a certain amount of tension, both in the coils themselves in betweeen my scalp and the bun.

Hope you figure it out:)
I can't say that I weave it a couple times, but I definitely get it through at least one solid time. I'm not sure more than once would even be possible; the coils are too tight to be that flexible -- either that, or they crumble even before they're secured. Which means that I can't do messy buns, either, unless I want them to be really messy...


Also, have you tried a Ficcare?
I have not. Partly because I'm not convinced about the look, and never have been, and partly because I can't possibly convince myself it's worth spending that much on a hair toy. On which note, I've also never tried a hair fork (actually, never knew they existed until recently), and think they look a bit odd too, but much prefer them to ficcares -- but they seem awfully pricey, too! Is there such a thing as an affordably non-fancy but functional fork? Or a chart of what size fork compares to what size stick, so I could even figure out what length I might need?

[Kimberly]

SparrowWings, some people take a double-ended metal knitting needle and bend it over a doorknob in order to make an inexpensive fork. I haven't done that, but have seen many on LHC over the years.

[Complexity]

I've never used a hair stick (such a newbie haha), but this past weekend I did try to hold a bun in with a pen with absolutely zero success. Pencil: Same thing. Maybe it's just the way I'm inserting them? Going to check out the YT video that was posted earlier now.

[Anje]

I've never used a hair stick (such a newbie haha), but this past weekend I did try to hold a bun in with a pen with absolutely zero success. Pencil: Same thing. Maybe it's just the way I'm inserting them? Going to check out the YT video that was posted earlier now.
There's definitely a learning curve for sticks. Look at the various videos for things like Lazy Wrap Buns and Disc Buns, and you'll get an idea of where to stick the stick to have it hold better. I'd encourage you to keep with it, though, because if your hair is long enough, hairsticks are a REALLY easy, comfortable, and fast way to put your hair up.

[meteor]

^ I definitely agree with Anje! :agree:
And if the video (by torrinpaige) I posted up-thread isn't creating a tight enough hold for you, check out this Pha Bun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsF9Kp5W9Ig It's super-tight, so be careful not to hold and twist hair tightly.
This video is also really good, as it shows the weaving of the stick motion very clearly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHQwLBvwoZE

[SparrowWings]

SparrowWings, some people take a double-ended metal knitting needle and bend it over a doorknob in order to make an inexpensive fork. I haven't done that, but have seen many on LHC over the years.
Yeah, I've seen one or two posts about those around here. What I worry about is the length, though. Those needles are only so long, so if I need a minimum of 5 inches for a stick, would a bent-needle-fork be long enough?

[Kimberly]

SparrowWings, I'm not sure. I do know that my forks don't need to be nearly as long as my sticks, and I have seen pics of people with a lot more hair than I have using bent knitting needles.

[emilia1992]

Like Amapola, I use four spin pins. Even then, if I need it to stay put e.g. through a dance class, I usually braid the bun too.

[Arctic]

Yeah, I've seen one or two posts about those around here. What I worry about is the length, though. Those needles are only so long, so if I need a minimum of 5 inches for a stick, would a bent-needle-fork be long enough?

I think it would. Think of them as hair pins, maybe, rather than forks. And you can always use 2 or 3.

[reilly0167]

Definitely will be trying that.

[pinutzz]

I have very fine and slippery hair as well and I can tell you that it helps if the stick is as "sticky" as possible. For me polished or coated slippery sticks don't hold things up at all. I had my first breakthrough with a small wooden finger food skewer (the kind people use for parties, like a toothpick, just double the length and a bit thicker). They have a fairly coarse surface. And also: they are thin, so they don't require too much extra space when being pushed through your hair, which is what makes you have a headache with a normal hairstick.

[SparrowWings]

I finally had some time to try different buns! And I definitely remember why I've always fallen back to a basic cinnabun -- keeping my hair where it belongs untwisted is virtually impossible. But twisting it as much as I need for a cinnabun makes it tangle if it stays up for any length, which is disappointing. Though, I never thought to find videos for different buns previously, so hopefully things'll go better this time!

So what did I try, and how did it work?

Lazy wrap bun: It's impressive how many variations there are out there for how to do that one. JJJLongHair's method seems to work the best for me so far, but keeping my ends contained sure isn't going well. It's also coming out looking rather lopsided, with the stick-out side being WAY larger than the stick-in side, probably because of escaping ends. But it's definitely secure, and doesn't seem like it'll have much range for twisting even if it wants to -- yay!

Pha bun: My word, when people say that one's tight, they're not kidding! And I like tight styles! Ouch! It definitely took some doing to get that one to loosen up enough to even get the stick in. But once I did, it felt great, held wonderfully, had very little ability to twist, and even that little bit was largely prevented by the friction of the bun itself against my head. AND my ends mostly stayed in! I didn't manage to keep it as clean and tidy as the tutorial (there were some extra bumps that I think were supposed to be tucked in somewhere...), but it has great promise!

Nautilus bun: Uh... Well, I wound up with a wonderful messy bun! Seeshami, where'd you put your hair cookies? I think mine might need a few, for this bun! I'm not sure what to make of this one. It looks so easy, and contained, and yet when I tried, all I got was a rays-of-the-sun-bun from ends sticking out all the way around. Which looked fun, admittedly, but sure wasn't a nautilus. Is that one that needs longer hair? With as wide a loop as I need to make for the thickness of my hair, it felt very much like I just don't have enough length. As soon as I tried to get the loop over the rest, the whole thing kind of unravelled, and I still didn't seem to have enough loop size to fit it. I wouldn't have thought my hair was that thick, so I'm a bit confused...

I'm also going to need to find myself a longer stick soon, if I can get any of these to work reliably. They seem to span quite a bit more length than my sloppy version of a cinnabun. Bump the stick, and the whole thing'll fall out, with what I have now!

[mindwiped]

Because I had no clue, I googled it- regular knitting needles can be up to 16 inches long. http://m.wikihow.com/Choose-Knitting-Needles

[Arctic]

Because I had no clue, I googled it- regular knitting needles can be up to 16 inches long. http://m.wikihow.com/Choose-Knitting-Needles

For bending them to make a fork/pin they'd need to be the double ended types, which are a bit shorter (for sock knitting and such).

[mindwiped]

I'm hoping the link works, but it's etsy- https://www.etsy.com/transaction/188385613

Tempest Moon Studio makes aluminum hair forks (I'm not getting paid to promote her, but I love my fork, so I'll give her a shout out anywhere I can