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View Full Version : Limp, stringy hair? Does my coarse hair need protein after all?



mermaiden_hair
February 23rd, 2016, 11:56 AM
I'm a medium-coarse wavy-curly haired person, so I was taught that proteins are bad for me, though I am allowed to do those protein treatments every 6 to 8 weeks. I clarified my hair sometime this month and have been using nothing but moisture, and zero proteins. Like, literally, zero proteins. Of any kind, really. And at first my hair was happy, but now its looking a bit flat, limp, and stringy. :confused: I am probably gonna do a wash tonight with my new low-poo, since I've been doing a lot of co-washes and maybe I just need to clean that extra stuff out. But I also think its the lack of proteins in my hair routine that is also causing this strange deflation.

What do you guys think?

maborosi
February 23rd, 2016, 12:03 PM
You might need protein, yes. It's definitely not a one-size-fits-all approach.
I need a gentle protein treatment on the regular to keep my hair strong, and some people don't.

Give it a try- I would go with something marked for daily use or a 'gentler' protein treatment first to see how your hair does, and maybe up the ante if you decide your hair needs it.

Silverbrumby
February 23rd, 2016, 12:31 PM
I'm a medium-coarse wavy-curly haired person, so I was taught that proteins are bad for me, though I am allowed to do those protein treatments every 6 to 8 weeks. I clarified my hair sometime this month and have been using nothing but moisture, and zero proteins. Like, literally, zero proteins. Of any kind, really. And at first my hair was happy, but now its looking a bit flat, limp, and stringy. :confused: I am probably gonna do a wash tonight with my new low-poo, since I've been doing a lot of co-washes and maybe I just need to clean that extra stuff out. But I also think its the lack of proteins in my hair routine that is also causing this strange deflation.

What do you guys think?

I'm similar but have mixed textures in my wavy-curly hair. My hair hates excess moisture without a good shampoo inbetween. Too much moisture leaves it feeling lank, sticky, awful to the touch. Yesterday I decided I had overdone the moisture and used my organic everyday shampoo before my special but barely cleaning dandruff shampoo. This morning my hair feels great again. My curls have come back. So while moisture is meant to be good for curly hair, I find that my hair, scalp loves to be cleaned and then using a good conditioner after.

mermaiden_hair
February 23rd, 2016, 01:38 PM
You might need protein, yes. It's definitely not a one-size-fits-all approach.
I need a gentle protein treatment on the regular to keep my hair strong, and some people don't.

Give it a try- I would go with something marked for daily use or a 'gentler' protein treatment first to see how your hair does, and maybe up the ante if you decide your hair needs it.

Thank you! I'll see if I can find a gentle protein product to use for my hair soon!


I'm similar but have mixed textures in my wavy-curly hair. My hair hates excess moisture without a good shampoo inbetween. Too much moisture leaves it feeling lank, sticky, awful to the touch. Yesterday I decided I had overdone the moisture and used my organic everyday shampoo before my special but barely cleaning dandruff shampoo. This morning my hair feels great again. My curls have come back. So while moisture is meant to be good for curly hair, I find that my hair, scalp loves to be cleaned and then using a good conditioner after.

Yeah, my curls have all but disappeared and now it's just waves, almost as if its straightening themselves out. :S I mean, I don't mean having wavy or even straight hair, but it is weird not seeing my curls anymore. I'll have to give it a good cleanse tonight and see how it reacts tomorrow. Thanks!

Anje
February 23rd, 2016, 01:56 PM
Definitely sounds like protein's worth trying. The statements about fine hair liking protein and coarse hair not liking it are very general and a lot of people don't find that they apply. (My fine hair doesn't like more than very rare and low-dose protein exposure.) Furthermore, most people find that some protein is good but it can also be overdone.

So try it. It sounds like your hair would like some.

mermaiden_hair
February 23rd, 2016, 02:15 PM
Definitely sounds like protein's worth trying. The statements about fine hair liking protein and coarse hair not liking it are very general and a lot of people don't find that they apply. (My fine hair doesn't like more than very rare and low-dose protein exposure.) Furthermore, most people find that some protein is good but it can also be overdone.

So try it. It sounds like your hair would like some.

My hair is probably crying, "Too. Much. Moisture!" :bounce:

So I've been fed these lies all along? I mean, I guess I have overdone proteins before and my hair was NOT happy about it, so I got scared and decided to amp the moisture level in my hair to the maximum, but now its just as upset too. This moisture/protein balance is serious business!

I also hear that different proteins does different things. I think amino acids are good for the more thicker, coarser hair types such as mines, right?

Silverbrumby
February 23rd, 2016, 03:16 PM
My hair is probably crying, "Too. Much. Moisture!" :bounce:

So I've been fed these lies all along? I mean, I guess I have overdone proteins before and my hair was NOT happy about it, so I got scared and decided to amp the moisture level in my hair to the maximum, but now its just as upset too. This moisture/protein balance is serious business!

I also hear that different proteins does different things. I think amino acids are good for the more thicker, coarser hair types such as mines, right?

Hair like ours mermaiden_hair is difficult to manage at times. We think we've hit the 'right' combination to have it rebel 2 weeks later. At least that's been my experience. Good news is now I don't feel defeated. I just sigh and try to figure out what's it's throwing a tantrum about this time.

Anje
February 23rd, 2016, 03:34 PM
My advice to people whose hair isn't just crying out for protein or hating every little bit of it is just to have two conditioners in the shower. One with protein, one without. Grab more or less at random, and tweak based on how your hair's been feeling: If it's being more stiff or rough than usual, go for the one without protein. If it's feeling overly limp, go for the stuff with protein.

mermaiden_hair
February 23rd, 2016, 06:35 PM
Hair like ours mermaiden_hair is difficult to manage at times. We think we've hit the 'right' combination to have it rebel 2 weeks later. At least that's been my experience. Good news is now I don't feel defeated. I just sigh and try to figure out what's it's throwing a tantrum about this time.

Lmao, its almost like our hair is a toddler who just needs some attention. :rolleyes:


My advice to people whose hair isn't just crying out for protein or hating every little bit of it is just to have two conditioners in the shower. One with protein, one without. Grab more or less at random, and tweak based on how your hair's been feeling: If it's being more stiff or rough than usual, go for the one without protein. If it's feeling overly limp, go for the stuff with protein.

I'm going to try that, thank you. It is good to have multiple choices in the shower, after all.

mermaiden_hair
February 23rd, 2016, 07:41 PM
Update! My hair just air dried and this was my routine for tonight: Low-poo my scalp and entire hair to wash it, used Tresemme Perfectly (Un)Done condish as a RO, and then used it again as a LI. Used my Aquis Turban for around 30 minutes or so before I unwrapped it and let it air dry for more time. My curls are back! It's very soft and shiny, feels very healthy and clean also. Still a bit frizzy, but that's to be expected. I guess all my hair needed was a good cleanse. :P

meteor
February 23rd, 2016, 08:28 PM
Update! My hair just air dried and this was my routine for tonight: Low-poo my scalp and entire hair to wash it, used Tresemme Perfectly (Un)Done condish as a RO, and then used it again as a LI. Used my Aquis Turban for around 30 minutes or so before I unwrapped it and let it air dry for more time. My curls are back! It's very soft and shiny, feels very healthy and clean also. Still a bit frizzy, but that's to be expected. I guess all my hair needed was a good cleanse. :P

^ Sounds great! :D Yes, limp, stringy hair can happen with build-up from too many occlusives (oils, butters, cones, etc) or humectants (honey, glycerin, aloe, etc), so a simple clarify-wash should help or even just rotating to lighter, more "volumizing", less "moisturizing" products temporarily. Hydrolyzed proteins can certainly be helpful for more strength (rigidity) and for temporary patch-repair, but all proteins are not created equal, so some proteins (they tend to be differentiated by size) might work better than others in specific situations. Some folks have success with gelatin masks: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html
More on proteins:
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html

Silverbrumby
February 24th, 2016, 12:06 AM
Update! My hair just air dried and this was my routine for tonight: Low-poo my scalp and entire hair to wash it, used Tresemme Perfectly (Un)Done condish as a RO, and then used it again as a LI. Used my Aquis Turban for around 30 minutes or so before I unwrapped it and let it air dry for more time. My curls are back! It's very soft and shiny, feels very healthy and clean also. Still a bit frizzy, but that's to be expected. I guess all my hair needed was a good cleanse. :P

Doing the celebrating dance. It feels good to have soft hair again ;). I'm glad it worked for you.

Arctic
February 24th, 2016, 03:25 AM
Glad your hair is better! What is the low-poo you mention? Is a ready bought, or a self-made product or for example baking soda (which some people call low-poo)?

mermaiden_hair
February 24th, 2016, 06:52 AM
^ Sounds great! :D Yes, limp, stringy hair can happen with build-up from too many occlusives (oils, butters, cones, etc) or humectants (honey, glycerin, aloe, etc), so a simple clarify-wash should help or even just rotating to lighter, more "volumizing", less "moisturizing" products temporarily. Hydrolyzed proteins can certainly be helpful for more strength (rigidity) and for temporary patch-repair, but all proteins are not created equal, so some proteins (they tend to be differentiated by size) might work better than others in specific situations. Some folks have success with gelatin masks: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html
More on proteins:
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2015/10/protein-101-lots-of-basic-information.html
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html
http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/06/size-matters-protein-conditioning-part.html

Yassssss, I LOVE doing the homemade gelatin masks as a protein treatment! They work extremely well for my hair when I do them. :eek: Need to do one again soon!


Doing the celebrating dance. It feels good to have soft hair again ;). I'm glad it worked for you.

Oh yes. :D It must've been too much co-washing, I guess.


Glad your hair is better! What is the low-poo you mention? Is a ready bought, or a self-made product or for example baking soda (which some people call low-poo)?

It is store brought from a health store, it is called Earth Friendly Baby Calming Lavender Shampoo & Bodywash.
Ingredients:

Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice *, Aqua (Water) , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Sodium Cocoamphoacetate , Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate , Lauryl Glucoside , Glyceryl Oleate , Sodium Chloride , Decyl Glucoside , Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil *, Sodium Benzoate , Citric Acid , Potassium Sorbate , Citrus Nobilis (Mandarin Orange) Oil *, Anthemis Nobilis Flower Extract *, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract *, Salvia Officinalis (Sage) Leaf Extract *, Tussilago Farfara (Coltsfoot) Leaf Extract *, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract *, Citrus Paradisi (Grapefruit) Peel Oil , Tocopherol , Hydrogenated Palm Glycerides Citrate , Limonene , Coco-Glucoside , Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower Extract *


My only concern is the sodium chloride in it, which is basically salt. Is it terrible to use, or..?

Arctic
February 24th, 2016, 07:08 AM
Ooh that looks like a nice no-shampoo-shampoo :)

Sodium Chloride is in most shampoos I have seen. I don't consider it a problem unless it's one of the first ingredients (a member just mentioned a shampoo where it was the third ingredient, which I do think is a problem). In your shampoo, depending if you count aloe juice and water as one or two ingredients, sodium chloride is 7th or 8th. The ingredient after that are mostly essential oils/plant extracts, which are used in very small quantities, so if all the essential oils/extracts would be removed, the salt would be one of the last ingredients. Sounds about right to me. I have read usually the first 5 or so ingredients are what a modern product usually is mostly made of.

mermaiden_hair
February 25th, 2016, 06:05 AM
Ooh that looks like a nice no-shampoo-shampoo :)

Sodium Chloride is in most shampoos I have seen. I don't consider it a problem unless it's one of the first ingredients (a member just mentioned a shampoo where it was the third ingredient, which I do think is a problem). In your shampoo, depending if you count aloe juice and water as one or two ingredients, sodium chloride is 7th or 8th. The ingredient after that are mostly essential oils/plant extracts, which are used in very small quantities, so if all the essential oils/extracts would be removed, the salt would be one of the last ingredients. Sounds about right to me. I have read usually the first 5 or so ingredients are what a modern product usually is mostly made of.

I think the sodium chloride in this low-poo is used as some kind of thickener, and its not at the very top at the ingredients list, so I guess I am worried about nothing as per usual! Thanks!

lapushka
February 25th, 2016, 06:31 AM
I think sometimes you need sulfates. I think it's not lack of protein, it's lack of a good cleanser once in a while to get all of the build-up and gunk out that remains after you clean with CO and low-poo.

If your hair is sensitive to protein, I wouldn't recommend things like Aphogee. A regular keratin conditioner or other protein-"infused" conditioner might do wonders. But I wouldn't go all the way to "real" protein.

mermaiden_hair
February 25th, 2016, 06:45 AM
I think sometimes you need sulfates. I think it's not lack of protein, it's lack of a good cleanser once in a while to get all of the build-up and gunk out that remains after you clean with CO and low-poo.

If your hair is sensitive to protein, I wouldn't recommend things like Aphogee. A regular keratin conditioner or other protein-"infused" conditioner might do wonders. But I wouldn't go all the way to "real" protein.

Hey lapushka. :D I am trying my best to stay on the Curly Girl method since it has done wonders for me in the past and still does now, and it is also good for my hair growing journey. I clarify with natural products (baking soda and ACV) and only use co-wash or a loo-poo to clean my scalp. Sometimes, even just water helps with cleaning it. I suppose I fear the sulfates because it has caused a lot of problems for me before, and I am desperate in growing my hair out without going back to the moisture-zapping suds. :P

I'll have to see if I can find a gentle protein conditioner for myself. I think my fiance will wonder why I suddenly need so many products, but eh, that's life. :P Thank you!

lapushka
February 25th, 2016, 07:22 AM
Hey lapushka. :D I am trying my best to stay on the Curly Girl method since it has done wonders for me in the past and still does now, and it is also good for my hair growing journey. I clarify with natural products (baking soda and ACV) and only use co-wash or a loo-poo to clean my scalp. Sometimes, even just water helps with cleaning it. I suppose I fear the sulfates because it has caused a lot of problems for me before, and I am desperate in growing my hair out without going back to the moisture-zapping suds. :P

I'll have to see if I can find a gentle protein conditioner for myself. I think my fiance will wonder why I suddenly need so many products, but eh, that's life. :P Thank you!

Baking soda is *very* alkaline for the hair, so it is generally not suited towards hair, nor towards clarifying it. You'd be better just using a sulfate shampoo - much more pH balanced and just better!

ko6kin
February 25th, 2016, 08:50 AM
If your co-wash contain silicones and BTNS it will builtup, even without cones,if you conditioner has BTMS and you wash your scalp with it, it could affect follicles as (as i've read somewhere) BTMS might build up in and penetrate the follicles.
So yes, you need a good cleanse once in awhile to remove all the built ups from your scalp and hair.Not necessarily sulfate shampoo- but sls will clean all, you can get a good cleanse with sls-free shampoo too, but definitely soda is alkaline as Lapushka says- not for hair for sure..

ko6kin
February 25th, 2016, 08:59 AM
The salt-sodium chloride, as Arctic explained is to thicken the shampoo, i am making them so yes it definitely to thicken. Although some companies making so called salt- shampoo/conditioners to thicken the hair, for ex.- lush Big sea salt shampoo.

Arctic
February 25th, 2016, 09:10 AM
What is BTNS?

ko6kin
February 25th, 2016, 09:16 AM
Oh god! have i done it again? i guess i need a doctor !!::D:oops::oops:
it is supposed to be BTMS, sorry...

Arctic
February 25th, 2016, 09:24 AM
Still completely strange acronym for me :o

ETA: Ah, BTMS = conditioning emulsifier

ko6kin
February 25th, 2016, 09:30 AM
Yes, INCI: Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetyl Alcohol (and) Butylene Glycol-BTMS-50 is a gentle emulsifying and conditioning agent, perfect for both hair and skin applications. It leaves skin feeling silky smooth and conditions hair like no other emulsifier available.Leaving skin with a lovely, silky and powdery feel, BTMS-50 is a must-have for luxury cosmetic formulations. This primary emulsifier doubles as an effective and lasting conditioner, and an excellent cosmetic ingredient for skin care as well as hair care, imparting softness, smoothness and lasting hydration. Working incredibly well in hair care formulations, BTMS-50 leaves the hair with excellent spring and body, making it easier to comb through as a detangler. As this emulsifier is incredibly mild, as it is known for, it is suitable to use in cosmetic formulations that are both rinse-off and leave-on such as leave in conditioners for hair. When used in formulae such as lotions or creams, BTMS-50 can effectively be used as a stand-alone emulsification system, along with its ability to emulsify almost all silicones up to around 50%. Often added at the oil phase of a cosmetic formulation.

mermaiden_hair
February 25th, 2016, 10:36 AM
Baking soda is *very* alkaline for the hair, so it is generally not suited towards hair, nor towards clarifying it. You'd be better just using a sulfate shampoo - much more pH balanced and just better!

Oh no no, hon, I don't mean I use straight baking soda on my scalp/hair, that's not it. :oops: I mean, when its time to clarify my hair (usually on a monthly basis), I go in the shower, wet my hair, and mix my concoction of a conditioner mixed with a little baking soda in it, wash my hair with it, rinse that out with water, and then apply an ACV rinse to close the cuticles back. Sometimes I do a final cold rinse to close the cuticles even further. I've never had issues doing this, as I only do it as a treatment rather than an everyday thing. :D It is then that I apply a deep conditioner for a while before rinsing it out with regular water.

I learned about this on the naturallycurly website.


If your co-wash contain silicones and BTNS it will builtup, even without cones,if you conditioner has BTMS and you wash your scalp with it, it could affect follicles as (as i've read somewhere) BTMS might build up in and penetrate the follicles.
So yes, you need a good cleanse once in awhile to remove all the built ups from your scalp and hair.Not necessarily sulfate shampoo- but sls will clean all, you can get a good cleanse with sls-free shampoo too, but definitely soda is alkaline as Lapushka says- not for hair for sure..

That makes a lot of sense! I'll definitely be sure to low-poo my hair once or twice a week to avoid the buildup. Thank you!

lapushka
February 25th, 2016, 11:20 AM
Oh no no, hon, I don't mean I use straight baking soda on my scalp/hair, that's not it. :oops: I mean, when its time to clarify my hair (usually on a monthly basis), I go in the shower, wet my hair, and mix my concoction of a conditioner mixed with a little baking soda in it, wash my hair with it, rinse that out with water, and then apply an ACV rinse to close the cuticles back. Sometimes I do a final cold rinse to close the cuticles even further. I've never had issues doing this, as I only do it as a treatment rather than an everyday thing. :D It is then that I apply a deep conditioner for a while before rinsing it out with regular water.

I learned about this on the naturallycurly website.

Still, most people tend to avoid Baking Soda around here, even when mixed in with other stuff - not something I would just recommend to someone. :)

mermaiden_hair
February 25th, 2016, 01:38 PM
Still, most people tend to avoid Baking Soda around here, even when mixed in with other stuff - not something I would just recommend to someone. :)

Oh my. :( Has it caused anything significant to any other members here, such as hair loss?

missrandie
February 25th, 2016, 02:05 PM
Oh my. :( Has it caused anything significant to any other members here, such as hair loss?

A few members here have experienced some rather severe matting after using baking soda, and others felt that it left their hair rough and abraded.

I know that Spidermom was one of the people who had the matting issue.

mermaiden_hair
February 25th, 2016, 04:36 PM
A few members here have experienced some rather severe matting after using baking soda, and others felt that it left their hair rough and abraded.

I know that Spidermom was one of the people who had the matting issue.

But did they do an ACV rinse after? Do they use a deep conditioner or a hair mask after? I am not trying to start anything, lol, I just want to know what they did before and after a baking soda treatment. It hasn't done anything bad for my hair so far and I've done it several times in my lifetime. Maybe its okay for some hair types and not others? :)

I mean, if it is truly that bad for me to use, then yes, I could try something else. I just really do not want to stray from my CG method.

meteor
February 25th, 2016, 09:00 PM
^ That's a great question, mermaiden_hair. I think hair is resilient, and it can sometimes be hard to tell if something is good or bad for it from using it infrequently.
I think the issue with following up baking soda with ACV is that, while it's true that the ACV rinse can bring the pH back to normal, it's quite harsh to take the hair from a low pH to a high pH (with baking soda) and then back to a low pH (with vinegar rinse), and doing it frequently may not be a good idea. Ideally, the hair is kept in pH range as close to its normal pH ("The scalp pH is 5.5, and the hair shaft pH is 3.67", though there can be some variation) as possible while cleansing and conditioning. There is a good discussion on this in this study in International Journal of Trichology: The Shampoo pH can Affect the Hair: Myth or Reality? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158629/

I'd recommend this blogpost on using baking soda: http://blog.kanelstrand.com/2014/01/baking-soda-destroyed-my-hair.html :) It's really worth checking out, if only for the demonstration with pH testing strips of what logarithmic scale of pH really means for how difficult it is to use it safely in practice in terms of required dilution (since each whole pH value above 7 is ten times more alkaline than the value right before it).

I hear about the softening effect from baking soda, and while it can certainly happen from raised pH, I worry that it may not always be the good kind of softening... I think it may have some similarity to that wet softness, "gummy" feeling from broken bonds from chemical treatments that raise pH (e.g. bleach, relaxers...), just not to the same extent, of course.

And not only is baking soda alkaline, it's also abrasive and possibly not that effective at cleansing (http://thebeautybrains.com/2012/05/can-baking-soda-make-shampoo-work-better/). For example, check out this experiment when tresses were washed with various methods (including baking soda), and then pictures were taken under a microscope, showing that quite a bit of grease was left behind from baking soda: http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2014/07/can-you-wash-your-hair-with-baking-soda.html and http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2015/05/hair-science-how-well-do-mild-cleansers.html

missrandie
February 25th, 2016, 09:05 PM
I'm afraid I don't have the specifics for you.. Sorry. However, Meteor is ever the angel! Thank you for articles!

meteor
February 25th, 2016, 09:10 PM
^ Thank you so much, missrandie! :flowers: You are so kind! :heartbeat

missrandie
February 25th, 2016, 09:13 PM
^awww, shucks... You deserve it. After all, you're always linking up articles and studies so folks can make educated decisions :)

lapushka
February 26th, 2016, 06:15 AM
I didn't have good experiences with BS either, same as with ghassoul/rhassoul clay - same effect. Dry, velcro-y, sticky hair that needed washing all over again.

Arctic
February 26th, 2016, 06:26 AM
The BS as clarifying wash was popular here at the LHC too, many many years ago. It was often used and recommended. Now it's mostly snubbed, maybe for a reason. I have used it mixed with shampoo few times years ago, but it never came close to an actual clarifying shampoo, so I rather use the latter. I can't remember BS on those few times causing my hair anything horrible.

My water where I live is very alkaline. The water facility gives yearly avarage pH values, and for few years it's been more in the under pH of 8 range, which is pretty good. But for several years it was over pH 8, if I remember correctly pH 8,2 at highest. This is approx. same pH as BS has, and my hair is relatively healthy (and people around me have nice, normal hair). The high pH water doesn't leave my hair matted or anything, so the pH alone isn't as huge issue that is often expressed, based on my own experience. (Of course, to balace the water out, the hair products here are almost always pH balanced, especially if they are developed to Finnish markets specifically).

My own take on the baking soda as a hair wash is thus this: might work for some, might not work for others. I wouldn't recommend it for long time, regular use, but if it, after testing, doesn't seem to harm hair and will remove buildup, and a clarifying shampoo isn't an option, then why not use it occasionally as needed. Keep an eye of you hair and be aware that some people have found it damaging (but I think those people mostly used it as a main washing method?).

I personally think a proper clarifying shampoo is superior at removing buildup, and my own hair gets buildup very easily and fast, so I do recommend first and foremost using that, but sometimes this isn't an option for what ever reasons.

mermaiden_hair
February 26th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Is it possible to find a clarifying shampoo that is also CG friendly? Seems too good to be true! :p

Arctic
February 26th, 2016, 11:49 AM
I think I have seen sulphate-free clarifying shampoos when surfing the net. You are probably better versed than me, whether they'd be CG compatible.

mermaiden_hair
February 26th, 2016, 11:54 AM
I think I have seen sulphate-free clarifying shampoos when surfing the net. You are probably better versed than me, whether they'd be CG compatible.

I'll have to check them out, then, because even though BS and ACV seems so easy to use (and cheap!), I wonder if it's worth using them in the long run. I'm here to grow my hair out, darn it! :P

meteor
February 26th, 2016, 12:26 PM
Oh wow, that's very alkaline water you've got there, Arctic! :bigeyes: I wonder if Finnish or international brands adjust their skin-care and hair-care products' pH for that? :) Do you notice if you travel with your products that they work slightly differently in different water areas? I notice that the same products don't work the same for me with different types of water.

Mermaiden_hair, I think there are quite a few sulfate-free clarifying shampoos out there these days (though I don't have personal experience with those, as I prefer sulfates). For example, Paul Mitchell Clarifying Shampoo Two, Pureology Purify Shampoo, Hask Charcoal Clarifying Shampoo, and by some CG-focused brands: Ouidad Superfruit Renewal Clarifying Cream Shampoo, Carol's Daughter Lisa's Hair Elixir Scalp & Hair Health Clarifying Sulfate-Free Shampoo... in fact, I think many CG-focused brands are creating sulfate-free clarifying shampoos, since they know there is a growing market there. ;)

lapushka
February 26th, 2016, 12:28 PM
I think this might be a good one:
http://www.sheamoisture.com/African-Black-Soap-Deep-Cleansing-Shampoo-_p_1235.html

But you'll probably have to get it online as it is a US product only.

Arctic
February 26th, 2016, 12:41 PM
Yes it sounds terribly alkaline water, but it's all I've ever known so it doesn't feel strange to me (I mean on my body, hair and household chores - the number does sound high and strange). They rise the alkalinity on purpose in the municipal water system by adding calcium, to save the pipes from corrosion. The natural water sources here tend to be more on the acidic side (and soft). I haven't travelled much, unfortunately, and the last time was before I was this much into hair, so I can't really say anything about that. I haven't noticed big differences when traveling in Finland, apart from when the water comes from well or lake (summer cottages, for example). Lake water always makes hair feel super soft! Same products seem to work where ever I've been inside Finland. I can't say if everywhere in Finnish cities the water is so alkaline, but I've been following the yearly avarage of my town since 2008 or 2009 and it's always been pretty high. The past 2 or so years it's been more in the pH 7,5 or so range, so that's a big improvement compared to BS alkalinity levels, but surprisingly I can't feel any difference. They have an alkalinity upper limit which is IIRC around 9! :bigeyes: Not sure if it's ever been that high, I haven't been measuring my water myself.

I think that many international brands do adjust their products. I mostly use Finnish products, so they are made for these waters originally (and probably tweaked towards a (stereo)typical Finnish hairtype, that is fine, thin and straight-mildly wavy).

ETA: I may add, that our water is considered of excellent quality in general.

meteor
February 26th, 2016, 12:51 PM
^ That's super-interesting, Arctic! Yes, it makes sense with calcium - I know different municipalities can develop different rules for that. Fascinating stuff! :)

Arctic
February 26th, 2016, 01:00 PM
I find it interesting too, water quality and systems have been one of the side-interests I've developed thanks to hair hobby. Not that I know much but I'm interested in it and have read about it occasionally and follow the water pH and other levels the water facility yearly provides.

Hypnotica
February 26th, 2016, 04:44 PM
Regarding clarifying schampoo - is there something extra magical about these? I have hair that seems to get buildup in a flash but regular schampoo or even low sulfate schampoos get it out.

meteor
February 26th, 2016, 04:53 PM
Regarding clarifying schampoo - is there something extra magical about these? I have hair that seems to get buildup in a flash but regular schampoo or even low sulfate schampoos get it out.

I don't think there is anything magical about clarifying shampoos :) , just a high concentration of effective surfactants and no/minimal botanical extracts, oils, cones and other stuff that can build up fast. :)
Very often shampoos that aren't marketed as clarifying, deep cleansing, detoxing, etc... are still effectively clarifying. I find that many "volumizing" shampoos or shampoos "for oily and fine" hair often fit the bill. ;) It's important to check the ingredients though.

mermaiden_hair
February 28th, 2016, 10:17 AM
Mermaiden_hair, I think there are quite a few sulfate-free clarifying shampoos out there these days (though I don't have personal experience with those, as I prefer sulfates). For example, Paul Mitchell Clarifying Shampoo Two, Pureology Purify Shampoo, Hask Charcoal Clarifying Shampoo, and by some CG-focused brands: Ouidad Superfruit Renewal Clarifying Cream Shampoo, Carol's Daughter Lisa's Hair Elixir Scalp & Hair Health Clarifying Sulfate-Free Shampoo... in fact, I think many CG-focused brands are creating sulfate-free clarifying shampoos, since they know there is a growing market there. ;)

Oh my God, thank you so much for the product suggestions! I sort of thought clarifying shampoos are traditionally supposed to be evil to us curly haired folks, but I guess not!


I think this might be a good one:
http://www.sheamoisture.com/African-Black-Soap-Deep-Cleansing-Shampoo-_p_1235.html

But you'll probably have to get it online as it is a US product only.

Lapushka, I found the shampoo on the Amazon UK website and it ships to Ireland, so thank you! I used to use their hair mask and it is very good! :D


Regarding clarifying schampoo - is there something extra magical about these? I have hair that seems to get buildup in a flash but regular schampoo or even low sulfate schampoos get it out.

I mean, lots of shampoos out there are very specific, such as giving lots of moisture, or has a lot of silicones already in them before you use their conditioner counterpart, volumizing, etc. Clarifying shampoo is, put simply, a shampoo that has no bells and whistles and supposed to remove buildup from your hair.