All natural alternative to conditioner?

[henné]

Hello all of you super smart ladies!

I'm on a path of eliminating as many chemicals/packaging from my skin and haircare. While I've already found a great alternative to skin care and washing my hair (soap nuts and eggs so far), I still haven't found anything like a good conditioner. So far, I'm using argan oil right after washing my hair - while the hair is still wet - and while it works ok, I'd still like something a bit more moisturising. I love SMT, but I don't want to use store bought conditioners.

Do you know of anything?

[lapushka]

I don't think there is much, TBH. Maybe some aloe vera, even honey (but that might be sticky!!!) - I really think you can exaggerate in these things. Why not use regular conditioner, but a more natural variant?

[Islandgrrl]

I'm experimenting with the fermented rice water thing. I've used it once. It left my hair very soft and slippy, no tangles. I detangled with my fingers once it was dry, then ran my wide tooth comb through and encountered no tangles. But what seems even better is that last night when I showered, I rinsed my hair just with water. It's still really soft and not tangly, which is not what I expected. My hair is not dry or crunchy feeling at all.

My plan is to give it another try next time I wash (which could be next week or in a couple weeks), and see if the results are consistent. If they are, then my plan is to add just a little bit of honey for its humectant properties.

[henné]

I'm experimenting with the fermented rice water thing. I've used it once. It left my hair very soft and slippy, no tangles. I detangled with my fingers once it was dry, then ran my wide tooth comb through and encountered no tangles. But what seems even better is that last night when I showered, I rinsed my hair just with water. It's still really soft and not tangly, which is not what I expected. My hair is not dry or crunchy feeling at all.

My plan is to give it another try next time I wash (which could be next week or in a couple weeks), and see if the results are consistent. If they are, then my plan is to add just a little bit of honey for its humectant properties.

That sounds great! Can you tell me more about it and how you make it and use it? Please?! :)

Also, what do you use to wash your hair?

[henné]

I don't think there is much, TBH. Maybe some aloe vera, even honey (but that might be sticky!!!) - I really think you can exaggerate in these things. Why not use regular conditioner, but a more natural variant?


I don't want to start a discussion here, but no, I don't think one can go too far trying to live as environment friendly as possible and minimise creation of trash - especially such dangerous trash as plastics - as much as possible.

[Hairkay]

Well, I use banana puree for conditioners. I've also used coconut milk, mango puree, strawberry and apples puree, pumkin and blue berry puree and yoghurt with and without fenugreek. I didn't seek out to be organic. I just have too many allergies to manufactured hair products.

I do water only washes and condition once a week.

See here
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=131493

[serin blackwood]

Here is what I learned from Wendy of "The Science-y HairBlog" about homemade conditioners (through private correspondance). They should consist of a liquid base, 2 to 4% humectant, 1 to 2% of a protein (if you want), some oils for slip (whatever amount your hair can accept without looking greasy) and a film forming humectant which also acts as a thickener.

So the list of ingredients I've developed is as follows:

Liquid bases: Catnip, rosemary, hibiscus, camomile or rooibos tea, coffee, plain water, diluted ACV water, coconut water

Humectants: aloe, honey, maple syrup, molasses, glycerin (though I find this too heavy for my hair), honeyquat.

Proteins: gelatin, beer, Braggs Aminos, silk aminos, yougurt.

Oils: camelia, mineral oil, olive, grape seed, coconut milk

Film forming humectants: guar gum, xanthan gum, marshmallow root, flax gel, okra gel, ripe banana (well blended)

Other things I like to add: amla, Zizyphus Christe, essential oils, different herbs to the teas.

I play around with different combos and mix it up right before my wash. My hair responds well to these mild proteins, so I usually add some, but not always.

So for the amounts - if you were using a cup of liquid or 250 ml, you would add 5 to 10 ml of humectant, 2.5 to 5 ml of your protein, not many drops of oil (5 is what works for me). If your are using honey or maple syrup you can use more than the 10 ml. ( I use, maybe, 2 heaping tbls.)
If you are adding powdered guar or xanthan gum be sure to sift it in the mix tiny amounts at a time while whisking as it will be lumpy otherwise. It only takes 1/4 to 1/2 tsp to thicken 1 cup of liquid.

In the shower, I slather the conditioner on, pile my hair on my head and cover with a plastic bag. Then I stand with a hot stream of water on the bag for two minutes. Heat helps the ingredients work. I used to sit for an hour with a heat cap, but I hate having my hair wet for so long, and I find the shower method works fine. I think I got that idea from the Science-y Hairblog as well.

[bunneh.]

especially such dangerous trash as plastics

It's actually not trash, it's raw material.

You may continue now.

[curlymarcia]

Use flax seed gel, it's really great! For me is much better than aloe vera. I have dry fine curly hair prone to tangle, and when I use it regularly my hair becomes smooth. I make it very diluted and never get crunchy hair. The downside is that it does not last longer.

[meteor]

There are some great ideas posted here.

If I were to avoid commercial conditioners, I'd stick to pre-poo oiling and sealing moisture with a few drops of oil post-wash or things like HALO rinses.

Some natural masks I like aside from oil mixes are DIY gelatin mask (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html), honey + oil, yogurt + methi (fenugreek seeds), coconut milk, diluted aloe vera juice. They aren't complete replacements for conditioners IMHO, but they can help moisturize and condition hair nonetheless.

Almost anything oily or mucilage-based can probably work in some way or other, if well-blended and within the healthy pH range. I'd be very careful with fiber-rich stuff though (e.g. bananas, avocados...), unless it's *thoroughly* blended and strained, because it can be really difficult to wash out or comb out sticky fibers from hair and they could cause extra tangling.

Happy experimenting! :cheer:

[henné]

It's actually not trash, it's raw material.

You may continue now.

It ends up as trash whether it's a 'raw material' or not. And it is dangerous.

[henné]

Here is what I learned from Wendy of "The Science-y HairBlog" about homemade conditioners (through private correspondance). They should consist of a liquid base, 2 to 4% humectant, 1 to 2% of a protein (if you want), some oils for slip (whatever amount your hair can accept without looking greasy) and a film forming humectant which also acts as a thickener.

So the list of ingredients I've developed is as follows:

Liquid bases: Catnip, rosemary, hibiscus, camomile or rooibos tea, coffee, plain water, diluted ACV water, coconut water

Humectants: aloe, honey, maple syrup, molasses, glycerin (though I find this too heavy for my hair), honeyquat.

Proteins: gelatin, beer, Braggs Aminos, silk aminos, yougurt.

Oils: camelia, mineral oil, olive, grape seed, coconut milk

Film forming humectants: guar gum, xanthan gum, marshmallow root, flax gel, okra gel, ripe banana (well blended)

Other things I like to add: amla, Zizyphus Christe, essential oils, different herbs to the teas.

I play around with different combos and mix it up right before my wash. My hair responds well to these mild proteins, so I usually add some, but not always.

So for the amounts - if you were using a cup of liquid or 250 ml, you would add 5 to 10 ml of humectant, 2.5 to 5 ml of your protein, not many drops of oil (5 is what works for me). If your are using honey or maple syrup you can use more than the 10 ml. ( I use, maybe, 2 heaping tbls.)
If you are adding powdered guar or xanthan gum be sure to sift it in the mix tiny amounts at a time while whisking as it will be lumpy otherwise. It only takes 1/4 to 1/2 tsp to thicken 1 cup of liquid.

In the shower, I slather the conditioner on, pile my hair on my head and cover with a plastic bag. Then I stand with a hot stream of water on the bag for two minutes. Heat helps the ingredients work. I used to sit for an hour with a heat cap, but I hate having my hair wet for so long, and I find the shower method works fine. I think I got that idea from the Science-y Hairblog as well.

Wow! Thanks! That gives me a lot to play around with ...

[bunneh.]

It's not that damgerous it just has to be separated correctly and handled correctly afterwards. Electronic equipment, light bulbs and batteries are a lot more dangerous to the environment yet we all use those no? Ofc it's okay if you don't want to use them and create unneccessary "waste" that's fine but like I said if handled properly it presents no danger to the environment, I would know I'm graduating environmental protection college this year. :P

[catasa]

I sometimes use pure honey as conditioner and for me it works well. My hair seems to be kind of strange though compared to most other folks, I usually don´t use any conditioning at all, just mild/diluted shampoo and a few drops of mineral oil as leave in/sealant on dripping wet hair after wash. But sometimes I find I need something moisturizing and as I haven´t yet found a commercial conditioner that works well without giving me crazy buildup, honey is the best thing that I have found, it seems to moisturize well without building up. But as meteor said, it will obviously not work as a "natural copy" of a regular conditioner since it is only a humectant. The list of different parts usually included in a "full conditioner" that serin blackwood posted was great, I´ll take a look at that also for sure, thanks!

[henné]

It's not that damgerous it just has to be separated correctly and handled correctly afterwards. Electronic equipment, light bulbs and batteries are a lot more dangerous to the environment yet we all use those no? Ofc it's okay if you don't want to use them and create unneccessary "waste" that's fine but like I said if handled properly it presents no danger to the environment, I would know I'm graduating environmental protection college this year. :P

How many times can you recycle plastic? I'm pretty sure at some point you can't recycle it anymore. And what happens with it then? It ends up on a trash heap somewhere in the middle of an ocean ... Or am I wrong here? And what about creation of plastic packaging, etc? Isn't that process dangerous?

The point is that the most environment friendly thing is not to create any 'waste, trash, whatever' at all ... I don't want to buy shampoos, conditioners, etc. in plastic bottles in order to minimise creation of waste and destruction of environment and our children's future.

[bunneh.]

The point is that the most environment friendly thing is not to create any 'waste, trash, whatever' at all ...

This. There's a thing called zero-waste management. It begins with a good design of a product in terms of what materials should be used, thinking about not only their current purpose but also how they'll work in the future, how well they can be recycled and so on. The first step is preventing/reducing waste. For example when going shopping think about if you really need another bag, perhaps you already have a bag you got from a previous shop or you carry a purse or something similar that you can put your items in. The next step is reusing what you have. Any bags that you get from a shop, take them with you the next time you go shopping, don't throw them away. If they're not of good quality (maybe they're too small or too thin or whatever) you could perhaps put food in it and put it in the freezer. When you can't reuse the item anymore perhaps you could recycle it? This may be hard with a plastic bag but say you have an old shirt that's really washed out and/or torn and you can't reuse it or give it to anyone, maybe you could make a bag out of it or something else. The same logic applies when you can't use anything anymore and you throw it in the bin. When trash gets collected it doesn't get dumped anywhere, it gets sorted; metals here, plastic there, and then paper and glass as well. All of these sorted materials get recycled. Metal can get melted and you can get new cans out of it for example, plastic can be recycled different amounts of times into bottles, but it doesn't end there. There are a lot of uses for different plastics, they can be used in construction or flooring. Glass can be recycled over and over and over and over and over again but it does break easily. Paper gets recycled into lower grade paper and ends as a toilet paper, which is biodegradable.

Should there ever be the real need to get rid of these materials, there's recovering energy from the materials. Basically the materials get burned at high temperatures, in return you get ash, energy and fumes, which get cleaned before their release in the environment. So there's no need to dispose of any kind of material, be it in the sense of burying it or dumping it in the oceans or anywhere else. I know there are also biodegradable plastics being made nowadays which don't present problems for the environment compared to ordinary plastics.

[lapushka]

In Belgium they no longer give you free plastic bags with your items. There are store plastic bags (huge), and you need to pay for those. There are also store bags (huge) made out of a plastic canvas type of material, and they "last" and are quite sturdy. My mom always takes those bags to the store.

I think, to me OP, you are going into extremes here. At some point there is such a thing as "living your life". And you can't do that without hiccups when you have that extreme a view on things, IMMHO. But to each their own...

[Upside Down]

Did anyone mention rosemary rinses? Or other tea rinses? Those are great.

People had luck with aloe vera gel too.

Flax seed gel is great.

I mix egg yolk, honey, oil and use as a deep treatment.

Also if you have any condishioner now, you can make it last way longer if you mix it with shea butter. Look up shea's moisturizing cream recipe. I like that one a lot!

Coconut milk is so so so nice!

[henné]

In Belgium they no longer give you free plastic bags with your items. There are store plastic bags (huge), and you need to pay for those. There are also store bags (huge) made out of a plastic canvas type of material, and they "last" and are quite sturdy. My mom always takes those bags to the store.

I think, to me OP, you are going into extremes here. At some point there is such a thing as "living your life". And you can't do that without hiccups when you have that extreme a view on things, IMMHO. But to each their own...

Sentiment expressed elsewhere more appropriate.

[henné]

This. There's a thing called zero-waste management. It begins with a good design of a product in terms of what materials should be used, thinking about not only their current purpose but also how they'll work in the future, how well they can be recycled and so on. The first step is preventing/reducing waste. For example when going shopping think about if you really need another bag, perhaps you already have a bag you got from a previous shop or you carry a purse or something similar that you can put your items in. The next step is reusing what you have. Any bags that you get from a shop, take them with you the next time you go shopping, don't throw them away. If they're not of good quality (maybe they're too small or too thin or whatever) you could perhaps put food in it and put it in the freezer. When you can't reuse the item anymore perhaps you could recycle it? This may be hard with a plastic bag but say you have an old shirt that's really washed out and/or torn and you can't reuse it or give it to anyone, maybe you could make a bag out of it or something else. The same logic applies when you can't use anything anymore and you throw it in the bin. When trash gets collected it doesn't get dumped anywhere, it gets sorted; metals here, plastic there, and then paper and glass as well. All of these sorted materials get recycled. Metal can get melted and you can get new cans out of it for example, plastic can be recycled different amounts of times into bottles, but it doesn't end there. There are a lot of uses for different plastics, they can be used in construction or flooring. Glass can be recycled over and over and over and over and over again but it does break easily. Paper gets recycled into lower grade paper and ends as a toilet paper, which is biodegradable.


Should there ever be the real need to get rid of these materials, there's recovering energy from the materials. Basically the materials get burned at high temperatures, in return you get ash, energy and fumes, which get cleaned before their release in the environment. So there's no need to dispose of any kind of material, be it in the sense of burying it or dumping it in the oceans or anywhere else. I know there are also biodegradable plastics being made nowadays which don't present problems for the environment compared to ordinary plastics.

:rolleyes: The thing is that this is NOT the topic of this thread. Create your own thread on the topic. Thank you.

[henné]

Did anyone mention rosemary rinses? Or other tea rinses? Those are great.

People had luck with aloe vera gel too.

Flax seed gel is great.

I mix egg yolk, honey, oil and use as a deep treatment.

Also if you have any condishioner now, you can make it last way longer if you mix it with shea butter. Look up shea's moisturizing cream recipe. I like that one a lot!

Coconut milk is so so so nice!

How/where do you get flax seed gel?

Coconut milk made my hair extremely oily for a long time. Maybe I forgot to mention I don't use conventional shampoo either, so all I'm left to are very gentle cleansing methods.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Chromis]

I use shampoo bars as you probably know, and I do not use conditioner with them. Instead I use an ACV rinse and before we had a water softener I did a combo of ACV and citric acid. (Citric acid is produced commercially from cultures of a fungus called Aspergillus niger.) There will be some packaging there, but both will last a long time at least, much longer than conditioner would! After my hair is dry, I oil it.

[henné]

I use shampoo bars as you probably know, and I do not use conditioner with them. Instead I use an ACV rinse and before we had a water softener I did a combo of ACV and citric acid. (Citric acid is produced commercially from cultures of a fungus called Aspergillus niger.) There will be some packaging there, but both will last a long time at least, much longer than conditioner would! After my hair is dry, I oil it.

I've tried shampoo bars with ACV rinse before and had a huge bout of hair loss that I attribute to that experience, unfortunately :whip:

That said, I am going to give it another try in near future - maybe because I'm a masochist - as I just ordered some samples. However, I'm considering white vinegar instead of ACV. What do you think of that? Have you tried it before?

I'm a little uneasy about citric acid because of its point of origin (i.e. black mold), but I may give it a try anyway if I don't make ACV work for me or if white vinegar doesn't work either. What do you think of the use of vinaigrette instead (like white wine vinaigrette)? :)

[Chromis]

I don't mind the origin, so I have not tried this, but citric acid is found in lemon and lime juice, so you might experiment with that.

White vinegar here is industrially produced and apple cider vinegar is produced locally on the small scale, so for me that is a much more natural alternative and supports local farming. I buy it at our farmer's market direct from the producer who also grew the apples. :) I do think even that Bragg's is likely more environmentally friendly to produce than your standard white vinegar though or the mass produced ACV. It even smells different!

And oops, re-reading I realized you said white *wine* vinegar! If you are making wine vinegars then sure, why not give it a try? Again though, commercially produced wine vinegars will be no better, but if you have a good source it sounds fun to play with.

[lapushka]

Sentiment expressed elsewhere more appropriate.

I don't get what you're saying? :confused:

[henné]

I don't mind the origin, so I have not tried this, but citric acid is found in lemon and lime juice, so you might experiment with that.

White vinegar here is industrially produced and apple cider vinegar is produced locally on the small scale, so for me that is a much more natural alternative and supports local farming. I buy it at our farmer's market direct from the producer who also grew the apples. :) I do think even that Bragg's is likely more environmentally friendly to produce than your standard white vinegar though or the mass produced ACV. It even smells different!

And oops, re-reading I realized you said white *wine* vinegar! If you are making wine vinegars then sure, why not give it a try? Again though, commercially produced wine vinegars will be no better, but if you have a good source it sounds fun to play with.

I always have lots of white vinegar at home as I use it as a household cleaner, so I was just thinking that this could be another use for it. I use only local Swedish brand, but I've no idea how it is produced, but I do like it comes in sturdy glass bottles that can be easily repurposed or recycled. I did find another brand that is producing organic white vinegar and I may order a litre from them ... then I guess it'd be more 'eco friendly' :) ACV messed with my scalp though, from what I remember.

How are you applying the ACV? DO you have a spray bottle or do you just pour the concoction over your head? Does it touch your scalp? And at what concentration does it work the best for you? I know, it's like a million questions :D Sorry ...

[henné]

I don't get what you're saying? :confused:

I sent you a private message on the matter. I want to keep this thread on the topic of alternatives to conditioner and don't want anything else discussed here - including the topic of plastics and waste.

[Chromis]

I always have lots of white vinegar at home as I use it as a household cleaner, so I was just thinking that this could be another use for it. I use only local Swedish brand, but I've no idea how it is produced, but I do like it comes in sturdy glass bottles that can be easily repurposed or recycled. I did find another brand that is producing organic white vinegar and I may order a litre from them ... then I guess it'd be more 'eco friendly' :) ACV messed with my scalp though, from what I remember.

How are you applying the ACV? DO you have a spray bottle or do you just pour the concoction over your head? Does it touch your scalp? And at what concentration does it work the best for you? I know, it's like a million questions :D Sorry ...

Question away!

Ah, I don't think I have ever seen plain white vinegar in glass here! Only fancy organic apple cider vinegar comes in glass here usually. The farmer's market stuff is in plastic which is not ideal, but then again I like to buy from the source and it did not travel so far....so I weigh out what I prioritize. If I ever decided to make a press I could in theory make my own from my pears which would be the most environmental thing I could do probably but I have not made the time to do this.

I add a "glug" of ACV to a two-cup measure and dip my length into it, then I pour the rest over my scalp. I never use it straight. I know this is not a very exact concentration though :lol:

[Nellon]

Just a thought: When I do a coconut oil soak overnight before washing I almost don't need to use conditioner after washing my hair... Do you think that oiling before washing and then putting a few drops of oil in the hair after could do the trick?
Again, I'm probably out sailing here *whistles* so just keep going and ignore me ;)

[Upside Down]

How/where do you get flax seed gel?

Coconut milk made my hair extremely oily for a long time. Maybe I forgot to mention I don't use conventional shampoo either, so all I'm left to are very gentle cleansing methods.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Surprisingly, I did't fond coconut milk (not oil) greacy even when I wash with just egg.

I guess it could be the difference in brands and fat content. Also you can diy coconut milk. Check out hennalonghair's thread about coconut milk henna gloss.

Flax seed gel: you just boil flax seeds for a while. Like 15 min and when it cools it is slimy consistency. Then you need to keep it in the fridge and it has a short shelf life. Someone here (don't remember who, sorry :) ) said they freeze it in ice cubes and it lasts months.

[henné]

Just a thought: When I do a coconut oil soak overnight before washing I almost don't need to use conditioner after washing my hair... Do you think that oiling before washing and then putting a few drops of oil in the hair after could do the trick?
Again, I'm probably out sailing here *whistles* so just keep going and ignore me ;)

I think it would perfectly fine if I used shampoo to wash my hair, but I'm going totally no poo, the coconut milk/oil doesn't wash out of my hair and stays in for a wash or two more ... which isn't the end of the world, really, but it's a little bit of a PITA :)

[henné]

Surprisingly, I did't fond coconut milk (not oil) greacy even when I wash with just egg.

I guess it could be the difference in brands and fat content. Also you can diy coconut milk. Check out hennalonghair's thread about coconut milk henna gloss.

Flax seed gel: you just boil flax seeds for a while. Like 15 min and when it cools it is slimy consistency. Then you need to keep it in the fridge and it has a short shelf life. Someone here (don't remember who, sorry :) ) said they freeze it in ice cubes and it lasts months.


I think if I separated the most oily part of the coconut milk (the part usually hardened at the top of the can) and only used the runny least oily part, maybe then even egg would wash it out ... I will try it again at some point :) Making my own coconut milk sounds great and I will definitely give it a try!

Thanks for the Flax seed gel recipe. Sounds super simple and fast. Definitely on my list now :)

[henné]

It's been a bit over a month that I've been totally shampoo free. So far, I've tried: egg wash, oatmeal wash, rice water wash and soap nut (and other indian/ayurvedic herbs) wash. My scalp and my hair feel absolutely great and I'm in love with not using shampoo or conditioner. The only conditioning 'thing' I've done so far was a coconut milk + honey treatment, massaging honey into my ends and adding a drop or two of argan oil in my ends.

So far so good! My shampoo/conditioner 'addiction' is officially over :joy: