Help needed for extremely dry hair, oil & protein does NOTHING for it.

[Luella]

Hello! I have been lurking around here for a while & would really appreciate some help. I've tried reading numerous guides & reviews all over the internet but I can't seem to find a routine that helps my hair. :(:(:( I'm feeling incredibly lost & unsure about what to do. I live in Australia & certain products that people use on this site are ridiculously expensive over here (Senna/neutral henna for example) will cost me at least $8-10 AUD per 100g.
I don't mind paying up to $150AUD for two bottles of high quality shampoo/conditioner if they genuinely will help my hair type. Unfortunately, in the past the cost of a product rarely equates to better results.

I've tried so many different methods, many that I can't even remember. Things that don't work for me include:

- OIL or any kind of oil treatment. This includes olive oil, argan oil, avocado oil, castor oil & ESPECIALLY COCONUT OIL. Which is the bane of my hair existence. It makes my blood boil thinking about all the guides on the internet that call it a holy grail. :disgust:These oils manage to make my hair oily & dry at the same time. Even if I pre oil my hair prior to washing it, it still doesn't work. Tried hot oil treatments, leaving it in over night etc. etc. Tried all the methods, it just doesn't want to happen.

- Redken all soft, again nothing.

- Egg/avocado/apple cider vinegar/ whatever pinterest guide you can find... make it worse as well (unless the egg is in henna - the only exception)

- Pretty much every supermarket brand for hair product marketed for dry hair. This includes those treatment tubs and sprays etc. except SOME tresemme products.

Things that do work

- Henna but only until it is washed out after a few days. Can't really henna my hair all the time as I don't want my colour to deepen or go darker. Makes my hair much more manageable and silky.

- I understand this product is probably a no-no on this forum but Tresemme Moisture Rich conditioner - although it makes my hair decent for 24 hours. After that it becomes dry, itchy and brittle again. This product also creates a lot of build up, therefore it damages my hair from excessive shampooing.

- Countless supermarket hair treatments which do nothing but make it worse

- SENNA/NEUTRAL henna worked amazingly for my hair! So much that I would be willing to use it in my hair every 2-3 days. However, living in Australia it is SO EXPENSIVE. That would mean I would have to pay $8-$10 per treatment...Which would be around $24-$30 a week. Annoying. Tried to find websites that sell in bulk but not having much luck. :( If I have to, I obviously will pay for it. Just wanted to see if there was a cheaper alternative.



If anyone has the same reaction to products as myself, please help me. I'm sure others on here have posted something similar to myself so I apologise for a repeat thread. I hate my hair so much.

[Luella]

Oh my, just saw a mistake. Not sure how to edit that post. ugh, oops. Accidentally put "- Countless supermarket hair treatments which do nothing but make it worse" in the wrong section. How does one do that? :doh: Ugh, it's late over here and brain no work right now.

[-Fern]

It looks like you need straight up moisture, and oils/proteins don't provide that. Oils can only seal in what's already there, otherwise you're essentially creating a barrier from moisture moving in or out. Try doing an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) on DAMP hair. I recommend not heating the mixture--instead, apply at room temp, then wrap hair in plastic and cover the plastic with a warm, damp towel. Let sit for 45 minutes to an hour.

(ETA: You will be able to edit your posts once you reach 25+ posts.)

[Anje]

Everything Fern said, but before you put the SMT in, clarify your hair first with a strong sulfate filled shampoo. Get any residual gunk off so the moisture can absorb well. (Besides, then it'll be damp.)

P.S. There's an SMT link in my signature.

[meteor]

Have you tried the SMT or adding honey to conditioner/oil mixes? If your hair responds well to humectants, playing with honey, glycerin, aloe... might be a good idea.

Can you describe, give some background on that dryness you are experiencing?
When/how did your hair get dry?
If it's something seasonal (winter dryness, for example), humidifiers and doing a mini LOC can help.
If it's product build-up (it very often feels like dryness), then obviously thorough clarifying (sometimes a few times!) is needed.
If it's mineral build-up from hard water, then chelate with a swimmers/chelating shampoo.

[Obsidian]

You hair sounds like mine. I can't use coconut oil or protein of any kind or I get dry, brittle hair. Have you clarified with a cone/protein free shampoo? Not sure if you can get it in AUS but suave daily clarifying shampoo is cheap and works really well.
I would clarify then do a SMT with a conditioner you know your hair likes. Nothing wrong with tresemme as long as it doesn't contain ingredients your hair doesn't like. Since you need extra moisture, you might check conditioners made for curly hair just stay away from proteins, keratin and coconut.

[Luella]

It looks like you need straight up moisture, and oils/proteins don't provide that. Oils can only seal in what's already there, otherwise you're essentially creating a barrier from moisture moving in or out. Try doing an SMT (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=128) on DAMP hair. I recommend not heating the mixture--instead, apply at room temp, then wrap hair in plastic and cover the plastic with a warm, damp towel. Let sit for 45 minutes to an hour.

(ETA: You will be able to edit your posts once you reach 25+ posts.)

Thank you! I saw the SMT thread a while back but had trouble finding a conditioner available in Australia that I haven't already tried. So hard finding a decent hair conditioner, my expectations aren't particularly high either. Tricky finding one to use for the treatment that would work with my hair type. Also finding alcohol free clear aloe gel in australia/or ships over here. Ugh. Shopping over here is the worst. We have so little choice in what we can purchase. I will most definitely give this a go when I find the products on the SMT list, I really hope it works otherwise all hope is lost. :(

Thank you for your suggestion & help with post editing! It is much appreciated :o:o

[Goatcraft]

Yikes. If I were you, I would discontinue the use of all protein treatments. So coconut oil, egg treatments, anything with protein. You could be having a protein overload. This causes extreme dryness. Too much protein also breaks the hair off. I'm talking, immediate breakage and irreversible damage. You really have to be careful with protein.

I would recommend a natural line (I use Aveda) and perhaps a moisturizing treatment. Also try co-washing for a couple of weeks. I personally can't stick to it (I have to shampoo at least once a week), but if my hair is feeling drier than usual - I co-wash until it feels moisturized again.

[Luella]

You hair sounds like mine. I can't use coconut oil or protein of any kind or I get dry, brittle hair. Have you clarified with a cone/protein free shampoo? Not sure if you can get it in AUS but suave daily clarifying shampoo is cheap and works really well.
I would clarify then do a SMT with a conditioner you know your hair likes. Nothing wrong with tresemme as long as it doesn't contain ingredients your hair doesn't like. Since you need extra moisture, you might check conditioners made for curly hair just stay away from proteins, keratin and coconut.


Thank you for your post! Yes, I was using the pantene ice shine shampoo only. Then tresemme conditioner. I think the ice shine is cone/protein free...I believe. Heard others were using it as a clarifying shampoo but I'll give the suave daily clarifying one if I can find it :) I don't mind paying a lot for something that works. I'll keep what you said in mind! :agree:

[Luella]

Have you tried the SMT or adding honey to conditioner/oil mixes? If your hair responds well to humectants, playing with honey, glycerin, aloe... might be a good idea.

Can you describe, give some background on that dryness you are experiencing?
When/how did your hair get dry?
If it's something seasonal (winter dryness, for example), humidifiers and doing a mini LOC can help.
If it's product build-up (it very often feels like dryness), then obviously thorough clarifying (sometimes a few times!) is needed.
If it's mineral build-up from hard water, then chelate with a swimmers/chelating shampoo.

My hair has always been quite dry since hitting puberty (around 12-13). Before that it was silky & fine. Once I had my period, it went to hell. Frizzy, boofy and dry. It's like this all year long and worse in the winter. I make sure there isn't product buildup in my hair from using clarifying shampoos but nothing seems to moisturise it but henna & senna. It could potentially be a mineral build up - not sure what the water is like in melbourne, australia. I should definitely look into that a bit further, didn't even cross my mind. Thank you! :o

[meteor]

Yes, I was using the pantene ice shine shampoo only. Then tresemme conditioner. I think the ice shine is cone/protein free...I believe. Heard others were using it as a clarifying shampoo but I'll give the suave daily clarifying one if I can find it :) I don't mind paying a lot for something that works.

Ice Shine is both cone- and protein-free. :) Judging by the ingredients list, Pantene Ice Shine is clarifying, and possibly also chelating (since Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate are listed high up).
Ingredients: Water/Eau, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Xylenesulfonate, Fragrance, Cocamide MEA, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Benzoate, Tetrasodium EDTA, PEG-60 Almond Glycerides, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Linoleamidopropyl PG-Dimonium Chloride Phosphate, Panthenol, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.

(Since this issue was mentioned above, I should add that coconut oil is 100% fat, there is no protein in it. :flower: Also unmodified egg proteins are too large to penetrate hair shaft, so they don't really work as a protein treatment for hair and can just sit on top until removed.)

I'd highly recommend clarifying (thoroughly washing all length with a good amount of clarifying shampoo) and then reassessing the situation, figuring out what exactly is the cause of dryness. Check the ingredients on conditioners you do like and seek out similar profiles in new products you try. Henna and senna can also make hair like different kinds of conditioners, sort of tipping the balance towards needing more moisture, so SMT is a good thing to try. :)

[Entangled]

Clarifying could definitely help the "no conditioner really works" effect. If you've got a lot of buildup, changing conditioners is not going to fix the problem. Is neutral henna cassia?

[Luella]

Ice Shine is both cone- and protein-free. :) Judging by the ingredients list, Pantene Ice Shine is clarifying, and possibly also chelating (since Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate are listed high up).
Ingredients: Water/Eau, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Xylenesulfonate, Fragrance, Cocamide MEA, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Benzoate, Tetrasodium EDTA, PEG-60 Almond Glycerides, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Linoleamidopropyl PG-Dimonium Chloride Phosphate, Panthenol, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.

(Since this issue was mentioned above, I should add that coconut oil is 100% fat, there is no protein in it. :flower: Also unmodified egg proteins are too large to penetrate hair shaft, so they don't really work as a protein treatment for hair and can just sit on top until removed.)

I'd highly recommend clarifying (thoroughly washing all length with a good amount of clarifying shampoo) and then reassessing the situation, figuring out what exactly is the cause of dryness. Check the ingredients on conditioners you do like and seek out similar profiles in new products you try. Henna and senna can also make hair like different kinds of conditioners, sort of tipping the balance towards needing more moisture, so SMT is a good thing to try. :)

I'm glad I asked for help. This is so helpful, thank you. Hopefully I can find the cause soon, but will try to find the appropriate SMT ingredients from the list.:o

[meteor]

My hair has always been quite dry since hitting puberty (around 12-13). Before that it was silky & fine. Once I had my period, it went to hell. Frizzy, boofy and dry. It's like this all year long and worse in the winter. I make sure there isn't product buildup in my hair from using clarifying shampoos but nothing seems to moisturise it but henna & senna. It could potentially be a mineral build up - not sure what the water is like in melbourne, australia. I should definitely look into that a bit further, didn't even cross my mind. Thank you! :o

Thanks a lot, Luella! :D
That's interesting! Could it be that your hair is now curlier than you think? :hmm: Many people experience dramatic texture changes due to hormonal shifts (e.g. around puberty, like you are describing).

Check out the Curly Girl method and see how your hair behaves if you condition/dry/style it like curly. Maybe there is more texture there. Frizzy, poofy hair is what curly hair can look like when it's brushed, blow-dried, or not conditioned thoroughly enough ... treated as if it were more straight than it is.

I don't know how exactly you dry your hair post-wash, but it can make a massive difference to frizz/poof, if the issue is texture-related. I'd experiment with air-drying or diffusing hair, not combing/brushing out texture as it dries and see how the texture behaves. If your hair turns out to be curlier, LOC and then maybe even plopping, scrunching with a tiny bit of gel can help... I'd definitely recommending reading up on that, too. :D

[AJNinami]

Thanks a lot, Luella! :D
That's interesting! Could it be that your hair is now curlier than you think? :hmm: Many people experience dramatic texture changes due to hormonal shifts (e.g. around puberty, like you are describing).

From a young child, my hair was silky, fine, and straight. I never really noticed it before, but looking back as soon as I hit puberty my hair turned wavy, coarse, and dry. After lurking here for a while I found out that it was horrible and ugly and never worked because I was still treating my hair like it was straight and using whatever conditioner/shampoo I thought smelled good. Now I know better. ;)

There is another possibility for the change. A friend of mine had severe acne, so he became fed up with it and medically dried out his skin. His poor skin will never be the same (always cracked and dry), but at least his acne is gone. One of the changes that happened was his hair became extremely dried out, when before it had been super soft and shiny. If you ever took something like this, it could have had a negative side-effect on your hair.

[renia22]

Luella- how's your diet? Is your hair growing out this dry? Shampooing really shouldn't damage it unless you're using a rough technique, or damaging it while detangling, but if you're being gentle and not doing damage mechanically, shampooing itself shouldn't be damaging it (unless you've been using something highly abrasive and alkaline like baking soda). Is it possible that something medical could be causing the dry/ poor quality hair (anemia, thyroid problem? Vitamin deficiency? Low protein? Medication side effect?). Also, in case it is in fact related to some kind of build up, here's a great article on clarifying from the beautybrains. According to them, the ingredient guar hydroxyprpyltimomium chloride, which is a polyquat, would negate something like Ice Shine from being a "clarifying" shampoo, but Suave Daily clarifying would be. Tresseme deep cleanse seems to be one that they recommend a lot also. As far as their conditioners, if you found some that work for you, I would go ahead and use them. Ingredients are highly a personal preference thing, I'd go with what works for you.

http://thebeautybrains.com/2009/03/how-do-clarifying-shampoos-work/

[Anje]

Regarding SMT ingredients, just grab your Tresemme conditioner (nothing wrong with that stuff - heck, I use Suave Naturals and Herbal Essences almost exclusively) and mix in some honey. Heat it up, let your hair soak in it for 30 minutes or so (beware of the sticky drips!), and rinse well. IMO the aloe is the least important component, and I suspect it causes the white clumps that occasionally plague SMTers.

[Alastríona]

Regarding the water in Melbourne, Australia it probably depends on where you live as to where your water comes from. (I lived in the south eastern suburbs). BUT despite Melbournians spouting on about how it is the best, most drinkable water in the world, I hate the taste and in fact it made me feel sick unless I boiled it first. Sounds like it might be worth you checking out, at least.

[khryz]

I vote for the SMT with honey only if you can't get pure aloe vera gel. I use fresh aloe from the plant which I get from the supermarket. Is that available for you? Otherwise, no biggie if you don't add in the aloe.

[Simsy]

Just a point that might help, I found my hair behaved and felt a heap better when I kept it dry and pulled back so it couldn't fly around. Something about water by itself just dried my hair out and made it terrible to deal with. Between keeping it dry, and pinning it up or back so it wasn't loose, I found my hair calmed right down.

[Sweets]

I agree with the posters above, but you also might consider that you aren't drinking enough water? I had major dry/brittle/coarse hair issues when I was chronically dehydrated. You may be drinking enough and this doesn't even apply, but I thought I'd mention it! Best of luck to you, Luella.

[Unicorn]

Just a thought on humectants. I don't know what your climate is like, but they only work in relatively humid environment. If there is no moisture in the air, then it takes the moisture from your hair.

I also wondered if it was worth looking into the curly girl method, as Meteor suggested. I'm sure among the great advice on this thread, there's something that works for your hair. It's also worth remembering to work with just one at a time so you can identify which works best.

Unicorn

[reilly0167]

Olive oil and honey works best for my hair...which is currrrly

[lapushka]

Thanks a lot, Luella! :D
That's interesting! Could it be that your hair is now curlier than you think? :hmm: Many people experience dramatic texture changes due to hormonal shifts (e.g. around puberty, like you are describing).

Check out the Curly Girl method and see how your hair behaves if you condition/dry/style it like curly. Maybe there is more texture there. Frizzy, poofy hair is what curly hair can look like when it's brushed, blow-dried, or not conditioned thoroughly enough ... treated as if it were more straight than it is.

I will second that. My hair went from a silky soft 1b/c texture to 2b/c wildness (and dryness) during puberty. I didn't know how to handle it then and I just washed with a plain silicone filled shampoo (Garnier Fructis) at the time - *no* conditioner. Yes, of course it was dry. Duh!

I double condition post wash (WCC) which helps me *hugely* considering I have to use a sulfate shampoo (seborrheic dermatitis). But the CWC method might also be one to try. In both methods you condition the hair twice, just at different time intervals. After washing, I use the LOC method to seal in more moisture into the hair (see signature). It works for me.

You have to play around with some methods a bit. Also CO-washing might be one to try.

[chen bao jun]

You might be a low porosity. there is a thread with help.

[Daydreamer.]

Have you tried a mask with a humectant like honey or glycerin? You could also make honey or glycerin into a moisturizing mist with some water. Use the spray only if the air has moisture in it. Otherwise, your hair might become drier.

[mish9101]

Osmo deep conditioning treatment

https://www.justmylook.co.uk/osmo-intensive-deep-repair-mask-1200ml-p6693?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=osmo-intensive-deep-repair-mask-1200ml-19121&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=Cj0KEQjwkdHABRCHiZ2gs6yGh50BEiQAA91WluMLMoc7 4pCaOl4SZnp9R_UJINSgcyReEKc0gJPNnSAaAmoM8P8HAQ

You can also get it in little tube

sometimes i add coconut oil and olive oil to some

Also, olaplex no1 + no2 works well on its own to strengthen the hair and coconut oil and olive oil masks

[spidermom]

Just a thought on humectants. I don't know what your climate is like, but they only work in relatively humid environment. If there is no moisture in the air, then it takes the moisture from your hair.

I also wondered if it was worth looking into the curly girl method, as Meteor suggested. I'm sure among the great advice on this thread, there's something that works for your hair. It's also worth remembering to work with just one at a time so you can identify which works best.

Unicorn

These are my thoughts as well. If you live in a dry climate, humectants like honey and aloe vera gel will only make your hair feel worse. Curly girl methods may indeed help you.

Be sure you have high quality fats in your diet and drink plenty of water.

[Anje]

It's been nearly 11 months since this was posted. Hopefully she's figured it out!

[Wusel]

I put pure aloe vera gel on the length every time I feel it's getting dry.

[Dark40]

Sounds like you need to try a deep moisturizing conditioner like, "Queen Helene Cholesterol Hair Conditioning Cream." That really works my hair wonders!!! I use that after every wash.

[AutobotsAttack]

Sounds like you just need consistent moisture treatments.

[lunasea]

Weird, how do these things resurface? The OP was 2016.

[Margarita]

Seems like your hair is begging for moisture. If you love using oils to your hair so bad, then, i recommend you using the Hairdresser's Invisible Oil by Bumble and Bumble. This brand has brilliant hair care products that may save your hair. Its important to moisture your hair, even daily in your own case.

[Arciela]

Weird, how do these things resurface? The OP was 2016.

I was wondering the same, there are quite a few threads now like this resurfacing >.>

To contribute to the thread - I'd just do a lot of moisture treatments to the length.

[nycelle]

I think they resurface when someone does a search on something specific, a thread pops up, and they answer it without looking when it was first posted. I can't see any other reason why an old thread would resurface.

[Dee94]

- Henna but only until it is washed out after a few days. Can't really henna my hair all the time as I don't want my colour to deepen or go darker. Makes my hair much more manageable and silky.

- I understand this product is probably a no-no on this forum but Tresemme Moisture Rich conditioner - although it makes my hair decent for 24 hours. After that it becomes dry, itchy and brittle again. This product also creates a lot of build up, therefore it damages my hair from excessive shampooing.

- Countless supermarket hair treatments which do nothing but make it worse

- SENNA/NEUTRAL henna worked amazingly for my hair! So much that I would be willing to use it in my hair every 2-3 days. However, living in Australia it is SO EXPENSIVE. That would mean I would have to pay $8-$10 per treatment...Which would be around $24-$30 a week. Annoying. Tried to find websites that sell in bulk but not having much luck. :( If I have to, I obviously will pay for it. Just wanted to see if there was a cheaper alternative.


I still don't understand Henna... I've read threads and stuff but, what are people really using it for? Is the main purpose of it, is to dye their hair or does it do lots of other stuff like make it manageable, silky, etc...? I'm not looking to do Henna or anything, just want to know what people really use it for and what it really does... I find Henna confusing even on the threads that talk about it. Maybe I'm just dumb....:oops:
Just really curious and always have been.

[NicoleJean]

For me products containing protein make my hair even more dry feeling. My sister who went to beauty school said using too much protein products too often can actually make your hair brittle, break and more dry. I tried and she was right so I never use products containing protein anymore.

Now that my ends are approaching 6 years old they are getting more dry. What I have found that has helped the most is using a co wash instead of a regular shampoo. Always using a hair mask with EVERY washing not just once a week like what is usually recommended. Using a lite leave in conditioner spray. Using a hair oil each day on the ends. And doing search and destroy in the sun light were you can best seee the damaged ends.

Products I use:

Tigi Calma Sutra - co wash
Neutrogena triple moisture hair mask
It's a 10 miracle hair mask
It's a 10 leave in lite - leave in conditioner spray
Sebastian Dark Oil - really good non greasy hair oil
Very sharp sewing scissors - work great because they are very sharp and small for precise cutting

[Spikey]

My dudes this thread is DEAD :rip: and OP is long gone

Dee94, people use henna for lots of reasons (though mostly for dye), including all of those you listed, but you'll have better luck getting questions answered if you post about it in a thread dedicated to henna:).

[NicoleJean]

I want to add my hair is a dry brittle breaking disaster if I use any kind of shampoo other than a co wash or conditioning shampoo. And my hair is a dry disaster if I don't use silicones.

I know a lot of people on here are anti sulfate and anti silicones and I'm not saying they are right or wrong. But when I read on here people saying they were not good for your hair I tried to give them up and my hair was so much worse condition. So I'm just saying you have to find what works for you. If you hair seems more dry and less manageable without silicones or sulfate than don't feel wrong or guilty for continuing to use them. Different things work for different people. It takes a lot of trial and error to find what works best for your hair.

[NicoleJean]

My dudes this thread is DEAD :rip: and OP is long gone

Dee94, people use henna for lots of reasons (though mostly for dye), including all of those you listed, but you'll have better luck getting questions answered if you post about it in a thread dedicated to henna:).

Oh wow. I didn't even check the dates! Who dug this thread up from the grave!

[leayellena]

I want to add my hair is a dry brittle breaking disaster if I use any kind of shampoo other than a co wash or conditioning shampoo. And my hair is a dry disaster if I don't use silicones.

I know a lot of people on here are anti sulfate and anti silicones and I'm not saying they are right or wrong. But when I read on here people saying they were not good for your hair I tried to give them up and my hair was so much worse condition. So I'm just saying you have to find what works for you. If you hair seems more dry and less manageable without silicones or sulfate than don't feel wrong or guilty for continuing to use them. Different things work for different people. It takes a lot of trial and error to find what works best for your hair.

that was me last year. silicones are not bad as long as they are not bad for your hair ;) silicones help straightening my stupid clumy layers! I heard they want to remove silicones from cosmetics so I will have to coconut oil my hair.