Help! Curly Hair Won't Clump

[sarah.j.xx]

Lately I've been trying to find ways to enhance and define my 3c curls, but I just haven't had any luck. I've noticed that my hair absolutely refuses to clump! :mad: I've tried so many methods, but my hair always ends up looking like a huge frizzball.

This morning, for example, I tried the tightly curly method, which includes saturating your hair in conditioner after washing and gently combing/brushing your hair so that the hair clumps together and forms beautifully defined curls. While my hair began to clump a little while it was still soaking wet, the curls only became more frizzy and less defined as they dried. :rolleyes:

I am becoming so frustrated! I want to love my natural curls instead of relying on twist-outs and braid-outs all the time, but how can I when my curls just won't cooperate? Do you think this is a moisture issue? If you've had this problem and found a solution for it, I would love to know!

Thanks in advance! :o

[spidermom]

Try combing some styling gel through and then twirling clumps around your fingers periodically as it dries. Try not to mess your hair around.

[sarah.j.xx]

Try combing some styling gel through and then twirling clumps around your fingers periodically as it dries. Try not to mess your hair around.

I used to use styling gel, but stopped because it caused my hair to become extremely dry, which resulted in really bad breakage and splits. So I'm trying to stay away from gel and mousse. Thanks for the suggestion though. :)

[lapushka]

How much moisture are you giving your hair, because that is *key* in preventing frizz. Are you CO-washing or washing sulfate-free? And using good thick conditioners? Or, if shampooing using *plenty* of conditioner and preferably some with silicones - if needed.

I do WCC and use the LOC method for styling (links in my signature). I would recommend it!

That might help.

[hufflepug]

I have this problem too but only with my canopy. I've got little ringlets in the under layer but the top just frizzes out and looks flat and sorta pokey.

[LoveSnap]

Are you using products with humectants in a humid environment? Also, are you using enough product? These two factors can mean the difference between curls and fro (though still a cute style) for me.

[Wildcat Diva]

If you use homemade flaxseed gel, that would not dry out your hair. Maybe you are not using the right products.

[meteor]

I was going to suggest the Tightly Curly Method by Teri Laflesh, but I see that you've already tried it. :) A crucial element of this method is twirling/forming/shaping curls with fingers as the hair is drying, while covered in conditioner. I think many people skip it (let's face it, it's involved and takes a *lot* of time), but without that active shaping of curls with hands, results may not be exactly as clumped and defined.
Check out many of her videos on YT or steps on her website (under section "Define"): http://www.tightlycurly.com/technique/curlyprimer/

Plopping and scrunching with gel works for some people, but a lot depends on the technique and the shape of the curl you naturally have and the effect you are going for. But it's worth experimenting with, if you haven't already.

Also, I'm all for gel (commercial products or especially DIY flaxseed gel, diluted aloe vera, etc...) and LOC/G routines if you like your curls to be clumped. The combination of conditioners, oil and, most importantly, gel can add both clumping and frizz-less hold to curls.
(Unfortunately, sometimes there is a bit of a balancing act between getting more clumping while trying to use less build-up-inducing product, like gel.)

[reilly0167]

Hi there.. I took me awhile to find what works for me as far as curly hair is concerned... I know the struggle.... I am under the weather right now...so I get right to it...curly hair as you already know need lots of moisture..back in my day (yes I'm up in age lol) there weren't much hair products specifically for our hair type and up...now there is like carols daughters..Shea moisture the L.O.C. method etc...just have to find what works the best for you....now what I do is this and I hope it works for you should you decide to try...1. After you wash your hair apply conditioner.. With a WIDE tooth comb comb back your hair gently detangle 2.let conditioner sit for a few minutes then rinse..( I do this in shower I never wash hair with my head over a sink or edge of tub)that way when you rinse your hair is laying the way its combed(hope this making sense)..when done squeeze excess water..take towel and BLOT ...now here's the thing...I take a bit of conditioner and smooth between palms...no rubbing..I don't use gel because I don't like crunchy hair...I like to use a serum which I smooth between palms then flip hair over and scrunch dry....and leave it alone...if you see some strands not clumping take a mist bottle with water and spray the strand to rewet to clump...be sure to deep treatments... Make it a spa day...my deep treatment is olive oil and honey...I apply to my hair put on a plastic cap and a terry turban and let it marinate for at least an hour..I usually have it in for two or more .I can be a bit drippy but I don't mind it I just put a towel around my neck...I know it sounds a lot but really isn't and I hope I didn't confuse you or sound like I'm rambling lol...hope this helps.

[Swan Maiden]

If you feel you moisturize your hair enough, you may need a protein treatment. I just did this for my daughters curly hair after trying everything and it made a significant improvement on the shape and condition of her curls.

[chen bao jun]

There are some good suggestions here. I hope something works for you.

My question would be, have your curls ever clumped? Is this a new situation after having curls clump formerly or has this always been the case for you?

I ask this because I know some people who believe they have 3c curls because this is what their hair appears to be after braid outs and twists out. But braidouts and twists outs (especially with certain products) can actually create the appearance of a type of curl that is not there naturally. If this is your situation, the advice you are being given here will be futile. Your hair without the product and the manipulation will continue to appear undefined and fuzzy.

Often people in this situation actually do have curls--but much smaller in size than 3c, and needing different care to appear. I have a sister in law and a niece in this situation who have had great success with the maximum hydration method, which you can google and perhaps consider. It is a method which takes a lot of time and effort in the beginning but once the hair has been clarified properly, it becomes extremely fuss free. My sister in law, after years of endless braiding and twisting (and product by the gallon full) now has beautiful extremely defined curls that require no manipulation to appear. She does not have to use gel or mousse, but only natural oils, after clay washing (which is very moisturizing and not stripping). Her natural curls are much smaller in size than 3c and would never have appeared using methods meant for 3c or other hairtypes which do looser spiralling.

Of course, this may not be you and if this situation is new and your hair has always clumped before, ignore the paragraph above. In that case, I wonder if you need to clarify? Product buildup can cause curl death, especially if you use products with silicone in them. Teri LaFlesh's method is a very lavish use of lots of 'slippy' products (she does recommend some without silicone, but I don't know which you have been using) and if you never clarify, you could have issues. I do a variation of tightly curly myself (I don't do that part where you stand and carefully twist all the curls that don't twist themselves one by one--don't have time or inclination for that) and I do need to clarify once a month or so to keep having the best curls possible (though in my case, my curls have never been actually 'killed').

Another question would be, is there any possibility that you might have heat damage? Recent or in the past? that raises a whole set of other issues, and in that case, you will have to keep doing twisting to have curls until the heat damage grows out, no avoiding it.

Just some other things to consider, if the other advice given above does not work for you.

By the way, pictures of the problem would be very helpful. If your hair did spiral before naturally and has now stopped, before and after pictures.

[sarah.j.xx]

Thanks, everyone, for all the helpful suggestions! :o

chen, thanks for your input. My hair did naturally clump together when I was little, but my curls were also much looser then (like 3a or 3b) and my mom was using a lot of gel in my hair. I believe my hair is currently mostly 3c, possibly with some patches of 4a on the sides and 3b in the back--at least, that's what it seems like when my hair is still wet in the shower. I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I'll try to upload some pictures if I get the chance. As for heat damage, I don't really think that would be the problem. I used to have some heat damage about four years ago when I first got my flat iron, but I think the damage has subsided by now (no more straight ends). I rarely straighten my hair these days anyway. Maybe I'll have to try clarifying; I don't think I've ever done that before. :)

[meteor]

As for heat damage, I don't really think that would be the problem. I used to have some heat damage about four years ago when I first got my flat iron, but I think the damage has subsided by now (no more straight ends). I rarely straighten my hair these days anyway.

Unfortunately, damage accumulates and, unless this damage has already been trimmed away, it cannot be removed and hair cannot be restored, it can only be conditioned, kept manageable. Texture can change quite a bit with damage, it tends to get "fuzzy", more frizzy and less defined if the hair is damaged. Hydrolyzed proteins and penetrating oils can help temporarily with this.
Check out this video on how to manage curls with different degrees of heat damage (by MoKnowsHair): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D47sMB7U1Lo

If you are considering bringing gels back into your routine (which would probably help with clumping quite a bit), I'd recommend flaxseed gel. I like this recipe (by Naptural85): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaH8GIbLrM You can adjust it to your preferred hold by playing with flaxseeds-to-water ratios, and you can freeze leftovers, too ;)

[lapushka]

Yeah 4 years seems a little "short" for long curly hair to be rid of heat damage. It might still play a part in your curls not clumping!

[sarah.j.xx]

Unfortunately, damage accumulates and, unless this damage has already been trimmed away, it cannot be removed and hair cannot be restored, it can only be conditioned, kept manageable. Texture can change quite a bit with damage, it tends to get "fuzzy", more frizzy and less defined if the hair is damaged.

Hmmm, I haven't considered this. I think most of the damage should be trimmed away, but perhaps there's still some left? And I think someone else also mentioned that flaxseed gel would be good; maybe I'll try it out. Thanks, meteor! :D

[papayatree]

Coconut oil is a frizz remover, I would try that and see how it works.

[chen bao jun]

If you do decide to clarify, be sure to moisturize afterwards, and clarifying would not be something to do all the time, but just occasionally to get rid of buildup. it can be rough on hair!

Flax seed gel is indeed great stuff and brings out the curl you have , without being sticky, or making hair hard to the touch, etc. I personally am not a fan of curl products, mousses, gels or that kind of thing AT ALL as the wya my hair feels is very important to me but I will occasionally use flax seed gel.

I hope that you don't have heat damage, although if the last time you used the flat iron was four years you are better off than if you used it, say, last week. Still, as others pointed out, its something that you ought to check.

You know that what your hair looks like when wet is not your actual curl pattern, right? Nor is it what your hair appears to be with lots of gel in it (even flax seed gel :) It's what your hair is when dry, without product on it. I don't know that you actually need this information, however--it can give you a useful place to start but there are other things that are more important. For instance, are you high or low porosity? Have you checked that? When I learned that I am a low porosity, it was much more useful in helping me take care of my hair than the fact that I THINK (i am actually not positive at all) that I am a 3c. If you, for instance, are very high porosity (which you can be either naturally or be from damage), your hair could be failing to curl because moisture comes in and goes right out again immediately. Or if you are a lo-po, it could be your situation that moisture is never getting into your hair shaft at all. I'm familiar with the second scenario, it was my situation, and although curl clumping has never been an issue for me, I was having some serious other problems (roughness and dryness and hair that was awful to feel).


as soon as you can, post pics, that will really help with your being able to get the advice that will help your situation. Meanwhile, good luck with it.

[CurlyCap]

How long is your hair?

I think one thing most people underestimate is the sheer amount of product it takes to define curly hair and keep it defined until it dries. Anything less than what is needed results in frizz.

Yes, detangling in the shower gives you clumps. Well, it separates the hair into it's natural sections so that product can then be applied. You can choose to do this in the shower by applying product to freshly wet, just detangled sections/clumps/strings or wait until you are out of the shower and try to sop up a little of the water first.

But honestly, the best curls come from literally wetting your hair with product. You can literally make your hair go "squish" when you pinch a clump. Most don't bother though because it takes forever to dry and you have to walk around with a head of goo until it dries. Most tightly curly hair absorbs it right up and it's not a problem, but the drying process is enough to try any soul.

My first blog post talks explicitly about every step of styling,if that's any help. For nape length hair, I used a quarter or product per section (4-6 sections), but BSL..a palm, by hip....I just gave up and wore my hair in an in between state most days.

If you don't want to make flax gel (which is AWESOME), Ecostyler with a little of your favorite oil is a good option. Also massively extends drying time, as it's best applied OVER conditioner.

Keep trying and posting here and we're happy to help you out.

[sarah.j.xx]

Thanks, CurlyCap! :) I think the issue right now might be that I am simply underestimating the amount of product that my hair needs. This morning I wet a strand of my hair and applied more product, which result in a somewhat-less-frizzy clump. When my next wash day comes around, I'm planning to detangle my hair in the shower and apply a lot more product to my hair and see what that does. Hopefully that works. I'm using Shea Moisture's Curl Enhancing Smoothie, if that makes any difference.

For those of you wanting a picture of my hair, I wasn't able to figure out how to add a picture in my post, so I placed the picture of my hair in an album instead. My hair isn't completely dry in the photo (about 70% dry) but it's close enough for you to get an idea of what I'm working with.
(Please excuse the low quality image and my clothes in the photo; my iPod is kind of old and I was still in my PJs.)

[lapushka]

Have you ever tried the "squish to condish" method? YT is full of it; if you search, I'm sure you'll find something. To me it's the oddest thing, but it might work.

[chen bao jun]

Glad you found some advice that seems to be working! Fingers crossed for you here.

[chen bao jun]

You have a whole lot of pretty hair. It will look good even if you don't get it to clump (which I believe you will). Glad you found some advice that seems to be working so far! Fingers crossed for you here.

I will watch for further answers with interest. My own hair clumps and doesn't want to NOT clump (which is an asset for the current styles, but wasn't always) so I know very little about curl products and how to use them. I use tightlycurly method more or less--the less part is that I don't do the finicky part. In case it helps, I will tell you what I do: On slightly towel dried hair (I make sure to use cotton t-shirt towelling and don't rub), I rake lots of (Crrly cap is right, you have to have a lot, but in her videos Teri Laflesh shows this) either tresemme smooth and silky or else garnier fructis triple nutrition or else Ausssi Moist (picked these three because they are the cheapest and easiest to find). Then I smooth a little of some kind of oil or a shea butter mixture just on the ends. Then I put my hair in two braids (either a faux crown braid or two braids that I pin in the back like a bun) and wait for it to dry. that's it. I do no curl defining, twining twirling etc and gave up using the denman brush a while back because it made little difference and just finger comb the tresseme or whatever into the hair quickly. I definitely don't try to walk around with loose wet hair while it dries (which is too long a process for me).

the pain in the neck part of the process is that my hair takes more than a day to dry in the two braids--it would dry faster loose, but as I said, I can't manage the fuss or take the time. On the other hand, I can go out, go to sleep or do anything with my hair in the braids (either crown or pinned back) and no one knows I have wet hair, I have a hair style. I just make sure to do the two braids somewhat loosely. when I take them out and my hair is dry and finger fluff slightly, my curls are all there and look nice and I use no further products . the curls last about 2 days and then my hair get dry and frizzy looking at that point. If I know I have to go out on day three or something, I put flax seed gel on my dry hair, but not too much, again, braid it very loosely (I do the braiding so that the wet hair isn't flopping around but it has to be loose or my curls will stretch out, into waves at best, into just lank hair is possible--ugh) and the next day I have the curls again. The way my curls are is, I have spirals. I don't have an album but I just put a few pics up a couple of days ago in the type 3 thread.
I can also do this using flax seed gel instead of the tresseme at the point where it is just washed and slightly towel dried and it also works. I used to do this but I got lazy to make the gel and it looks the same both ways, TBH.

YOur hair is longer than mine though (though my hair is longer than in the pics I just put up over in the other thread, they are two years old) and you may have the problem I am having now. My hair is getting looser. I definitely still have curls and they are still definitely very spirally, but they are getting bigger and bigger which I am not sure, may be from length? Not sure. Also, I have to be careful to wash often now. It used to be, my hair would stretch so that I had no curls by 5 and 6 but I'd just put it up in a bun and it looked like wavy hair, more or less (which it is not) and I'd delay washing out of laziness. However now if I don't wash again by day 5, my ends start breaking off. I think this is because they are at the point just too old. My ends actually will frizz and lose the curliness (spiral) while the rest of my hair won't (which is why I used to be able to do the bun, jsut hiding and protecting the ends). I think this is becasue they are damaged, were mistreated before, not from heat but from rough handling and sulfate shampoo and over manipulation--I used to do braid outs out of ignorance and they were heck on my hair, type 3 hair doesn't like them is the conclusion I have come to. I can't do twist outs. My hair untwists itself, no one, not even professionals, has ever been able to make it stay in twists, I have to rope braid instead.
Hope this helps, maybe parts of it will be helpful for you.

[Beckstar]

Your hair is gorgeous. Your curls are much tighter than mine (3a/b) but I find a little bit of coconut oil + whatever leave-in I happen to use will add moisture and help cut down on frizz. Make sure to not touch your hair while it is drying to prevent frizzing.

[sarah.j.xx]

Lapushka, the "squish to condish" method? I've never heard of it; I'll look it up for sure! :)

Thanks, Beckstar! So is yours. :) I do use a little coconut oil, but mostly for moisture.

And thanks, Chen, for all the helpful advice! :o

[CurlyCap]

Hiya Sara.j.xx,

I saw your picture and YEP, it's a product issue. May hair does something very similar when I just am too tired to go through the whole shebang. GORGEOUS HAIR, btw.

I'd recommend experimenting with a few curls along your hairline between now and next wash day. It'll let you try a bunch of methods without wasting a head-full of product. When you're bored, soak a section (or a few curls) of hair with water under a sink tap. Once the curls are soaking and dripping try the recs below. Warning: For some reason, soaking your hair under the tap is SO much better than attempting to soak it with a spray bottle. Don't know why, but it makes all the difference.

Things to experiment with on individual curls:
1. Can you just coat the curl with lots of conditioner and it forms a curl as it dries?
2. Does your curl prefer a coat of oil before you apply conditioner? Does it prefer a coating of gel on top of the conditioner (there are dozens of variations on this theme, but this is the top two).
3. Some curly hair prefers that every clump be smoothed completely and pulled straight before being released. Oddly, it leads to a more perfect curl. It's cool to see it slowly move from straight to a perfect curl.
4. Try spinning a product-laden curl around your finger to see if you like the results.
5. Try twisting a curl, like you would the end of a screw driver, from the roots to the tip and then letting go.

Good luck and keep us updated!

[luxurioushair]

Huh? Never brush type 3 or type 4 hair! #1 rule.

[sarah.j.xx]

Alright, I've figured it out!

I realized that I simply wasn't using enough product in my hair. This morning after I washed my hair, I applied a lot more product than usually and gently brushed my hair. I know everyone says not to brush curly hair when wet, but this happens to work really well for my hair as it causes my curls to become more defined.

I've put more pictures up for those of you who would like to see. I'm really happy with the results. Thanks, everyone, for your helpful suggestions! :o

[lapushka]

This is a curly who also brushes her hair out when damp (she shows it here) - it works for her as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3lYkm47hLs

As long as you do not brush it when dry, you're fine!

[CurlyCap]

Brushing your hair is fine when covered with product, especially if it is layered or still rather short. That's more defining curls than detangling.

Now, trying to knock a tangle out with a brush....that leads to trouble.

I'm so happy things worked out. Yes! Pictures please!

[reilly0167]

Have you ever tried the "squish to condish" method? YT is full of it; if you search, I'm sure you'll find something. To me it's the oddest thing, but it might work.

Sounds like something I do..is that when you put conditioner in and kinda squish it in?...kinda like scrunching?

[Daydreamer.]

I have hair like yours. My hair is frizzy and poufy. Curls don't come easily. I put my hair up all the time. When it gets longer, I might try wearing it down curly. As for your hair, have you tried the tightly curly method? Also, I heard amla is good for curls. Maybe it can help bring out curls for you?

[curlymarcia]

Have you tried flax seed gel? Is very good for clumping the hair and will not dry it out, on the contrary.

[Daydreamer.]

Oh, forgot to add, a lemon juice rinse might help with curl formation. Check out this thread:
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=53745