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Vanilla
December 19th, 2015, 08:00 PM
Turns out the angles at which straight hair intersects make it more likely to tangle than curly hair. Fine hair is worse than coarse hair in terms of tangles due to the cuticle being more puffy too.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/straight-hair-is-knottier-than-curly-hair/

school of fish
December 19th, 2015, 09:20 PM
Did they submit my hair as evidence to this study? Haha! My tangle rate certainly would support this assertion... ;)

I'm pretty sure I've stumbled across this article in the past but I couldn't tell you where. I remember reading about the 'tangle angle' :)

turtlelover
December 19th, 2015, 10:14 PM
I've played with a LOT of straight hair and a LOT of curly hair. I think this is B.S.!!! There is a REASON a lot of curly girls only detangle with conditioner in the shower!

Dessi
December 19th, 2015, 10:48 PM
That's interesting, I can see why it's true. However, my hair always tangles more when it's wavy (after a wash or with braid waves) than when it's straight.

Upside Down
December 19th, 2015, 11:56 PM
Ok but curly girls detangle when they wash or they end up with epic poof and straighties detangle every day or so.

After keratine (granted this may not be the average straight hair) I am wavy and tangle free but before with curls I would brush out a rat every time I washed.

All I am saying it is not just the texture it is the rutine too ;)

Hairkay
December 20th, 2015, 07:13 AM
I'm not buying that either. I've got kinky curly hair. My hair is big no matter what. I detangle when wet because it makes it slippery therefore more easier for the strands to slide past each other. Dry, I can detangle but it will take longer and cause some damage. I can begin detangling a little section of hair with a comb. I started from the hair ends, moved the to middle then the roots and by then the ends have tangled up again. The hair acts like velcro. The little curly ends are like hooks clinging to other hooks. There is a reason most really curly haired people detangle hair in sections and it may take some people hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOXUvUpJhLk

Here's one trying to detangle in a short time.

lauren_alia
December 20th, 2015, 07:30 AM
Hmmmm, yeah I'm skeptical. :laugh: I second what Hairkay said about curly ends being like little Velcro hooks. Also, it seems like in the places where the hair shaft twists or curls the cuticles would be raised a little bit naturally, as they'd have a hard time laying flat around the curve? Which would lead to the puffy cuticle=tangling thing.

lapushka
December 20th, 2015, 07:31 AM
Nah, I don't buy that. I doubt curly hair tangles less. Maybe it also depends on how you wear the hair, and on how short it is.

pailin
December 20th, 2015, 08:33 AM
I think at the bottom they said the real issue was probably fine vs coarse hair, and I can see that better.

Vanilla
December 20th, 2015, 02:28 PM
I've had my hair both curly (with a spiral perm) and straight at around the same length I am now.

Wearing it down when curly resulted in WAY fewer tangles than wearing it down and straight. I used gel in those days, and my curls would remain in individual clumps until I washed and detangled it. I could also wear braids without my nape hairs getting so tangled together that they resemble a wad of hair.

I suppose if you are tightly curly, the rules are different than a looser curly. If your curls are clumped into fewer sections, I'd imagine there would be fewer chances to tangle.

I can't wear my hair down when straight for more than a few minutes now. Even when drying, it has a tendency to stick together.

sarahthegemini
December 20th, 2015, 02:45 PM
Fine hair is worse than coarse hair? My hair is fine and rarely tangles.....

Hairkay
December 20th, 2015, 03:54 PM
I've had my hair both curly (with a spiral perm) and straight at around the same length I am now.

Wearing it down when curly resulted in WAY fewer tangles than wearing it down and straight. I used gel in those days, and my curls would remain in individual clumps until I washed and detangled it. I could also wear braids without my nape hairs getting so tangled together that they resemble a wad of hair.

I suppose if you are tightly curly, the rules are different than a looser curly. If your curls are clumped into fewer sections, I'd imagine there would be fewer chances to tangle.

I can't wear my hair down when straight for more than a few minutes now. Even when drying, it has a tendency to stick together.

And there you have it. They had a small sample of hair types in one setting and made a conclusion. Instead of saying "within our sample of (insert hair types) in our location we conclude................", they just made made a generalisation that all straight hair tangles more than curly hair.

diddiedaisy
December 20th, 2015, 04:14 PM
My hair's wavy but I usually wear it with my waves combed out. It gets way more tangly though when I leave it curly.

meteor
December 20th, 2015, 05:02 PM
I've read about this study by Jean-Baptiste Masson before (for those who are interested, some LHC discussions mentioning this are here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=129919&page=2), here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-10134.html), here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-39777.html) and here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-101746.html)), but I can't access the original study, unfortunately, and I haven't seen any other studies on this topic, so I can't judge/comment, and this still leaves some questions for me, like the details on the angles vs. combing force required to undo tangles, and the definition of tangles/knots that they used to calculate the # of tangles and come to their conclusions (e.g. sometimes hair just sticks together a bit, other times you get a tight knot...).
If somebody can access the study, please do leave a link if it's available :pray: and tell us what you think ;) It was published in the American Journal of Physics in August 2007.


Personally, I would consider a good test not necessarily to compare a bunch of different people with different hair types, which automatically introduces a lot of factors other than *just* the curl pattern that could influence the outcome dramatically: different density, multiple textures, condition, oiliness/dryness, diameters of hair strands, etc etc... Instead, comparing the *same* head of curly hair that is left natural vs. straightened or the same head of straight hair that is left natural vs. curled. This way you can see if the act of going curly or straight helps the combability.
Even with this test, a big problem arises: how exactly do you curl or straighten the hair... there are multiple ways and the way it's done could produce different results.
To give a personal example, nothing tangles my hair more than "doobie" wraps (for straightening) or headband curls or pin curls (for curling). But braid waves (if left untouched) cut down on tangles dramatically compared to my natural texture, because the hair is kept in separate clumps and individual strands "interact" only with a limited number of neighbours within the same clump, rather than with my whole mane.

However, I have heard so many reports from people who relaxed, BKT/keratin-straightened, texlaxed, flat-ironed their hair mentioning that detangling became much, much easier post straightening. Also, I've heard many stories from people who permed, texturized, had "boost-up" root perms done that their hair became much more tangle-prone after the curling procedures. Basically, there seem to be many reports that contradict the findings in the Masson study. Of course, it would be great to read the actual study and to have more studies done on this subject matter.
(I must say I do think it's incredibly cool that there are "experts in hair behavior" in research institutes. :D Maybe some day even detangling robots will be invented? :magic:)

chen bao jun
December 20th, 2015, 05:28 PM
My hair is tightly curly and doesn't tangle hardly at all since I learned the right method. If I detangle from the top, dry, I end up creating tangles, this is what everyone used to do and taught me to do, so I thought I had really tangly hair but I don't. So tightly curly hair must vary also.

I used to think that straight haired people didn't tangle but I have learned differently. But again, it seems to depend on the person. I went to visit a friend a couple of months ago who was ill and she asked me to wash both of her daughters' hair, both appeared to have the same hairtype, high density 1b, about shoulder length. (they are both about 11 years old). It LOOKED like the same hair, and if the hair type isn't the same, its very similar, however, one of the girls, you could just brush her hair once it dried , easy peasy 5 minute job but the OTHER one--oh my dear heavens. I was a good 45 minutes, never saw or felt so many tangles in my life, my hair definitely doesn't do that. I still cant figure this one out. I mean, why she is so different from her sister. The mom says it is always like that, in fact she warned me, this one will be easy and the other one not.

I suggested to the mom that she wash the tangly one in braids, but besides being somewhat short, the hair is so straight that it does not stay braided at all without major rubber banding. So that would be impossible.

I doubt the study was very scientific for the same reasons Hairkay does, I doubt the sample was big enough or varied enough. Also if they were using the same methods for everybody...

TR
December 20th, 2015, 05:47 PM
My straight hair never tangles at any length.

chen bao jun
December 20th, 2015, 06:19 PM
Meteor I don't think that would work as curly hair is intrinsically different than straight hair even when straightened. That is to say, when my hair is flat ironed or chemically relaxed, it still does not look (for more than a day) or behave like naturally straight hair.

I have also had people who have permed their hair try to compare their 'curls' to mine and TBH, they never had any clue how naturally curly hair behaves at all. Even though their hair is altered, it still isn't behaving like real curls.

I think the study would be invalid because of this fact.

Vanilla
December 20th, 2015, 07:51 PM
My hair is tightly curly and doesn't tangle hardly at all since I learned the right method. If I detangle from the top, dry, I end up creating tangles, this is what everyone used to do and taught me to do, so I thought I had really tangly hair but I don't. So tightly curly hair must vary also.

I used to think that straight haired people didn't tangle but I have learned differently. But again, it seems to depend on the person. I went to visit a friend a couple of months ago who was ill and she asked me to wash both of her daughters' hair, both appeared to have the same hairtype, high density 1b, about shoulder length. (they are both about 11 years old). It LOOKED like the same hair, and if the hair type isn't the same, its very similar, however, one of the girls, you could just brush her hair once it dried , easy peasy 5 minute job but the OTHER one--oh my dear heavens. I was a good 45 minutes, never saw or felt so many tangles in my life, my hair definitely doesn't do that. I still cant figure this one out. I mean, why she is so different from her sister. The mom says it is always like that, in fact she warned me, this one will be easy and the other one not.

I suggested to the mom that she wash the tangly one in braids, but besides being somewhat short, the hair is so straight that it does not stay braided at all without major rubber banding. So that would be impossible.

I doubt the study was very scientific for the same reasons Hairkay does, I doubt the sample was big enough or varied enough. Also if they were using the same methods for everybody...

Chen, my hair is very much like the second daughter's hair. As a child, it would take about an hour or so to detangle.

I would love to wash my hair in braids, but I'd have to band every braid. I wonder if it would even work for us straighties.

chen bao jun
December 20th, 2015, 08:06 PM
Vanilla, have you found a solution? I would love to be able to give the mom some advice on this, she has a lot going on right now and she could use the time. She is open to solutions and new ideas and she did research many years ago to enable herself to grow her own very fine, breakable 1a hair to her waist with coconut oil on the ends and super gentle treatment, so she knows that how you treat your hair makes a difference. This situation is completely out of my experience, either personal (obviously) or second hand (first time I ran into this, didn't know it was possible, I thought that with straight hair, the comb would just easily run through--not).

TIA.

pailin
December 20th, 2015, 08:12 PM
Since they said the angles between the hairs make a difference, it is very possible that the angles are different between a looser curly and a tightly curly.
But it really sounds like there are just factors that we don't know about yet. There has to be something that explains the difference between the 2 straight haired sisters mentioned above (who probably have similar routines), and if you could figure out what that is, it might give you the answer. Or, one of the answers.

turtlelover
December 20th, 2015, 08:25 PM
Vanilla, have you found a solution? I would love to be able to give the mom some advice on this, she has a lot going on right now and she could use the time. She is open to solutions and new ideas and she did research many years ago to enable herself to grow her own very fine, breakable 1a hair to her waist with coconut oil on the ends and super gentle treatment, so she knows that how you treat your hair makes a difference. This situation is completely out of my experience, either personal (obviously) or second hand (first time I ran into this, didn't know it was possible, I thought that with straight hair, the comb would just easily run through--not).

TIA.

I might try something super cone-y like Pantene, followed by a leave in detangler, but a great deal of experimenting might be required to find the perfect products.

chen bao jun
December 20th, 2015, 08:28 PM
Yes, Pailin, they do have the same routine, which is clearly wrong for the tangly one. I will give the mom your suggestions turtlelover and thanks very much.

Amapola
December 20th, 2015, 08:33 PM
Fine hair is worse than coarse hair? My hair is fine and rarely tangles.....


My straight hair never tangles at any length.

Wow. You guys are sooooo lucky. :( I am not so lucky. My hair tangles if I even breathe.

This is kind of a derail I guess... Vanilla and Chen, I have terribly tangly straight hair. This is what I do: I am using a ton of cones in the conditioner and I've started using Kendi oil. This is a product I get at Sally's. I put it in my hair while it's still damp and apply a fairly generous amount every other day or so. It's made a huge difference... I still tangle, but at least the ends don't stick to each other and form knots. I can actually get it to part ways without damage. This will be the first winter where I'm not leaving a bunch of ripped-out hair on the floor. What a relief...

On the study, I have to wonder how many people they used. As others have said, there are so many factors to consider! Hair is NOT hair. Everybody has different hair, now, WE know that but there are many who don't realize that. Makes me wonder if the person conducting the test knew this? I agree it would be awesome to read the original study. So many times, "reporters" get it totally wrong. (I don't consider them to be reporters since they are not actually fact checking etc. like a reporter is supposed to do. Comes of having worked at a newspaper for 11 years... :rolleyes:)

meteor
December 20th, 2015, 08:42 PM
Chen, future research like that might be useful for some of us (like myself :flower: ) who have texture that changes a lot or who want manipulate texture just to avoid tangles. At thigh length, tangles are the bane of my existence, so I definitely choose whether (and how) to wear my hair curly, straight or natural depending on how complicated the detangling procedure will be. :) If texture is actually a factor (I don't know if it is), more research on texture and texture manipulation might help. :thumbsup:

For those LHC-ers who had questions up-thread on the sample size used:

Jean-Baptiste Masson at the Ecole Polytechnique in France had hairdressers count tangles for a week in the hair of 212 people—123 with straight hair and 89 with curls. Counting was conducted between 4 p.m. and 7 p.m., so that hair had a chance to snag during the day.
Masson found straight hair got tangled nearly twice as much as curly hair—the average number of tangles was 5.3 per head of straight hair and 2.9 per head of curly hair.
http://www.livescience.com/1876-study-curly-hair-tangles.html

It would be great to know how they defined "tangles" and "straight" hair and "curly" hair, of course, and also if they tried to isolate as many other factors (e.g. length, condition, density, median diameter of hair strands, etc...) as possible.

(If someone has access to the full study, please do share your opinion with us. :pray: I'd be particularly interested in the mathematical model and the assumptions used. :flower:)


I would love to wash my hair in braids, but I'd have to band every braid. I wonder if it would even work for us straighties.

I wash hair in braids with great success. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on straight hair. :) Yes, I do secure 2-3-4-5 braids (the lazier I am that day, the fewer braids I do) with elastics and sometimes they slide off, but it doesn't matter, they stay put when wet). Braided washes do cut down on tangles and make it much easier to reach the roots. The only downside I found is that lint doesn't wash out as quickly and easily as in free-flowing hair under water pressure. Also my hair tends to dry in braidwaves after that, so if you don't like braidwaves, it's something to keep in mind.

There is a whole thread on this (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=129718) and it does pop up on the LHC boards quite often. HTH! :flower:

chen bao jun
December 20th, 2015, 09:03 PM
Yes, the definitions can really vary. there are probably translation issues also.

There are a ton of African descent people in Paris (I am assuming it is the Ecole Polytechnique there) so possibly there could have been tightly curlies including, impossible to know without their saying.

Yes I do prefer to wash my hair in braids also. I dont tend to get lint in my hair and also, I don't need to put elastics on the ends for the braids to basically stay. But there are soem with slippery hair that is really difficult to braid at all, much less get to stay braided. Its not just the straightness but something else about the texture for some people.

Length is something I don't have experience with, since my hair is not long. Those who have long hair can perhaps share if their tangling changed at different lengths (if more length meant more tangling or vice versa)

meteor
December 20th, 2015, 09:13 PM
^ Oh yes, chen, length is quite a big factor, I'm pretty sure. :agree: I think most of us can attest to this: e.g. when we get even a small trim (let alone a big chop!), it feels right away like the hair is much easier to detangle. It could have something to do with removal of damaged/velcro-like ends, but even if the hair is not damaged at all, the sheer reduction in length helps detangling, I think. :agree:

lauren_alia
December 20th, 2015, 09:16 PM
Length is something I don't have experience with, since my hair is not long. Those who have long hair can perhaps share if their tangling changed at different lengths (if more length meant more tangling or vice versa)

My hair is just now waist length and it definitely tangles more than it did at shorter lengths. It's always been tangle prone, but now especially. Sleeping with it loose is not even an option anymore. The few times I've done it since my hair passed bsl I have seriously regretted it. I used to sleep with it down all the time, and while it was tangled in the morning it wasn't unbearable.

MeAndTheMaz
December 20th, 2015, 09:39 PM
I don't know about the science, but how many of you gasped in horror at the picture? :eek:

And to keep this somewhat on topic, just like Amapola, my hair tangles if I'm sitting absolutely still in a windless environment. I'm a bit wavy. 1C/2A, maybe.

KittyBird
December 21st, 2015, 01:16 AM
I think some hair tangles a bit, some hair tangles a lot and some doesn't tangle much, regardless of texture. I had pin straight hair as a kid and it definitely tangled a lot, and it's not much better now that it's wavy. I get much more tangles if I leave it in clumpy waves than if I comb it out, braids are total death to my hair because the entire thing ends up matted, not just the bottom part, and my hair also tangles when it's bunned. Wearing it down and bunning leaves me with just about the same amount of tangles. :shrug: Coney conditioner and LOC makes detangling easier, but my hair is still a tangly b*stard no matter what I put on it.

Bergelmir
December 21st, 2015, 02:04 AM
Turns out the angles at which straight hair intersects make it more likely to tangle than curly hair. Fine hair is worse than coarse hair in terms of tangles due to the cuticle being more puffy too.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/straight-hair-is-knottier-than-curly-hair/
I think this can't be said in such a manner and a general answer is never true. Surely i can say, my wavy/fine hair is one of the worst stuff when it comes to tangling. I'm able to have thick felt on many spots in a rather short time when i do not always detangle it, and felt is unable to be detangled, this is the highest level of tangling. My nephew got afro hair, probably curly, and he never have to detangle. However, i dont say that there is no curly hair out there who needs lot of detangling because there is no general answer to those sort of issues. Hairs are way to individual and any kind of research trying to generalize a matter is always wrong.

maria_asa
December 21st, 2015, 02:56 AM
What I found interesting is the claim that on fine hair the cuticle is open and puffy. If the hair is healthy I don't see why the cuticle would be puffy just because the hair is thin. I've had a hair analysis done on my hair and the cuticle is not puffy at all.

Maybe it's because fine hair is more fragile than coarse so the probability of finding damaged fine hair is bigger than damage coarse hair?

Entangled
December 21st, 2015, 07:57 AM
I think how they defined tangles also alters the findings. At a camp, I once detangled a girl's hair to do a five strand braid. Her hair was extremely thick and tightly curly. It took a long time to detangle, a lot longer than it take mine, but I didn't find the same kinds of knots. The had was woven together, but there were fewer "tangles" (like single strand knots) in her hair, even though it took longer.

Entangled
December 21st, 2015, 08:01 AM
What I found interesting is the claim that on fine hair the cuticle is open and puffy. If the hair is healthy I don't see why the cuticle would be puffy just because the hair is thin. I've had a hair analysis done on my hair and the cuticle is not puffy at all.

Maybe it's because fine hair is more fragile than coarse so the probability of finding damaged fine hair is bigger than damage coarse hair?

I wonder how related it was with the bit at the end? Where it talked about dye damaged, fine hair? Another hair misconception? The other thought I had about that was that course hair has another layer compared to fine or medium hair, so it's stiffer (at least, mine is. My canopy is medium, but my underlayers are very course) and thus less flexible than finer hair and less susceptible to getting knotted up and entwined around other hairs. But that's not their given reasoning, so who knows?

Aingeal
December 21st, 2015, 08:08 AM
I have 2c/3a hair and it rarely tangles...I wonder why there are so many disparities. Before washing I'm able to add olive oil to my hair (which has had coconut oil in it all day) and finger comb through easily. Any knots just fall out in the shower when I condition. I very rarely even use a comb on my hair.

chen bao jun
December 21st, 2015, 03:39 PM
I think this can't be said in such a manner and a general answer is never true. Surely i can say, my wavy/fine hair is one of the worst stuff when it comes to tangling. I'm able to have thick felt on many spots in a rather short time when i do not always detangle it, and felt is unable to be detangled, this is the highest level of tangling. My nephew got afro hair, probably curly, and he never have to detangle. However, i dont say that there is no curly hair out there who needs lot of detangling because there is no general answer to those sort of issues. Hairs are way to individual and any kind of research trying to generalize a matter is always wrong.

I think you pretty much summed it up.

And I think people are all too likely to generalize, if they have some sort of trouble with their hair, "people with X/Y type hair don't have this problem" which often goes on to "People with X/Y type hair have no problems with their hair" and of course sometimes on to "I wish I had X/Y type of hair."

X/Y type of hair just being hair that they have no personal experience of. They go by how it looks on someone else.

Vanilla
December 21st, 2015, 04:58 PM
Vanilla, have you found a solution? I would love to be able to give the mom some advice on this, she has a lot going on right now and she could use the time. She is open to solutions and new ideas and she did research many years ago to enable herself to grow her own very fine, breakable 1a hair to her waist with coconut oil on the ends and super gentle treatment, so she knows that how you treat your hair makes a difference. This situation is completely out of my experience, either personal (obviously) or second hand (first time I ran into this, didn't know it was possible, I thought that with straight hair, the comb would just easily run through--not).

TIA.

Chen,

To be honest, I'm still trying to find a routine that will work always for me. The things that I do know:

My hair has very low porosity and is extremely prone to build up. Build up leads to tangles.

Cones build up on my hair. I need to clarify once a week, despite a cone-free routine. Deep conditioning once a week with a heated cap seems to help immensely with my hair and tangles.

Kinky Curly Knot Today was working for me for a while as a leave in. It really knocks out the tangles in wet hair and is come free. Unfortunately, I was getting quite a bit of build up, even using this as a leave in regularly.

Mineral oil does provide quite a bit of slip without too much build up, but the amount I need to detangle effectively means that I look like a grease-ball. Not a good look for blonde hair. Regardless, every other wash, I'll put enough oil to detangle from my ears down and commit to only wearing it up until my next wash.

When swimming, I need to saturate my hair with leave in conditioner (not oil), and braid my hair. Oil does not provide enough protection or slip when my hair is wet from swimming.

Hope that helps a little bit. It will make a difference if her daughter has darker colored hair. She will be able to get away with using a bit more product to detangle without it being noticeably greasy.

Quixii
December 21st, 2015, 05:42 PM
To be honest, I find this very hard to believe. And I happened to see this thread while in a room with two curly haired guys, and they both agreed that they're not sure what kind of non/less tangly curly hair the article is finding.

I mean. I believe there's some curly hair that tangles less than some straight hair, and vice versa. But mostly I think curly hair tangles in a different way than straight hair. I know I have to spend ages detangling my hair, whereas my mom and sister with nearly or actually straight hair hardly have any problems.

lilin
December 22nd, 2015, 01:27 AM
I buy it. I can go days without combing my hair and have no tangles, as long as I allowed the wurlies to lock together when they dried the last time I washed. It tangles much more if I comb it after it's dry.

But, having fine hair, if my hair experiences substantial rubbing, it will tangle pretty epically. But sleeping doesn't cause this, since I am a fairly still sleeper.

I can also see why this wouldn't apply to kinky hair. Kinky hair is not just super-curly. It is a different texture all together.

Todd
December 22nd, 2015, 05:31 AM
Mine is straight and it tangles if I even look at it wrong. Even wearing the wrong kind of shirt can make it tangle.

Obsessed1
December 22nd, 2015, 05:34 AM
I find that hard to believe. My hair strands are super fine like spider webs and I have somewhat thick wavy/loose curly hair that is highly elastic and tangles so easily. My hair strands tie themselves in individual knots somehow, as in one single hair will tie itself in knots and I have to cut them off above the knot (looks like little split end balls all up the shaft). Curly hair is oval shaped rather than round which makes it kink and tangle

meteor
December 22nd, 2015, 04:19 PM
This thread is really interesting. :) And seeing so many different opinions and experiences on this, I figured starting an LHC poll might be interesting:
Does your hair tangle more/less when it's straightened/curled compared to your natural texture? : http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=135584

lapushka
December 22nd, 2015, 04:25 PM
Doesn't it also all depend on what products you are using on said hair? Whether it is a slippy conditioner or not? Or is this tested on just shampood hair?

chen bao jun
December 22nd, 2015, 04:27 PM
I buy it. I can go days without combing my hair and have no tangles, as long as I allowed the wurlies to lock together when they dried the last time I washed. It tangles much more if I comb it after it's dry.

But, having fine hair, if my hair experiences substantial rubbing, it will tangle pretty epically. But sleeping doesn't cause this, since I am a fairly still sleeper.

I can also see why this wouldn't apply to kinky hair. Kinky hair is not just super-curly. It is a different texture all together.


Not true. There is no such thing as 'kinky' hair. Afro curly hair (usually called 'kinky' incorrectly) in its many different variations is indeed curly. The curls are just smaller, depending on the person, ranging from pencil sized (3c) down to the diameter of the crochet hooks used for making lace (that is, very very small). It has the same spectrum of textures that any other human hair does, ranging from fine to coarse, so you cannot simply say as a global statement that it is 'a different texture' (which makes it sound as if non-afro curly hair all had the same texture, not a true statement either.)

The person who posted the statement wondering if Afro curly hair was included in the study, and stating that her Afro curly hair is tangly (Hairkay) is a 3c curly. 3c are the larger curls in the afro curly spectrum (pencil sized). My hair is also 3c. It rarely tangles. So two people with the exact same size of afro curls can have hair which differs very much from each other. One can't generalize.

meteor
December 22nd, 2015, 04:33 PM
Doesn't it also all depend on what products you are using on said hair? Whether it is a slippy conditioner or not? Or is this tested on just shampood hair?

Exactly! This and so many other questions (e.g. specific textures/thickness/types of hair used, how exactly they define a tangle, the techniques and the number of brush-strokes all the hairdressers used before providing the # of tangles, etc etc) really make me want to read about the details on how the research was designed and conducted. :agree:

Quixii
December 22nd, 2015, 05:05 PM
I also feel like comparing permed hair to naturally curly hair or straightened hair to naturally straight hair is just.. not relevant. Because that introduces a whole new set of factors into tangle causes or possibilities.

excentricat
December 22nd, 2015, 07:29 PM
Not sure if it was mentioned, but they specifically didn't try to break apart formed curls to count tangles, so anything within a formed curl wouldn't have counted. On straight hair, everything would have counted. I wonder how much of a difference that makes.

CatsAndCoffee
December 22nd, 2015, 07:40 PM
I don't know if curly hair get fewer tangles than straight hair but I will say this:

I have a friend who has very healthy, long, and lovely curls (I'd say 3c/4a?). Her hair can get quite knotty at times, but once she's combed it out, it stays de-tangled, unless something like wind or friction happens to it.

My hair (naturally 1b on a "wavy" day), however, will be tangled up before I'm even done brushing it. I'll start at the ends and work my way up. By the time I get to 3/4 of the way up, my brush is catching some fresh tangles on the downstroke. I have to be super gentle and usually end up giving up. :thud:

yahirwaO.o
December 23rd, 2015, 06:43 PM
I'm not really sure about this. I have pretty straight hair and mine rarely ever tangles, it clumps and make tentacles ends but they are not knotty even when I brush with plastic bristles and have wore it down all day.

Braid waves on me can get knotty and painful when brushing.

So I guess it depends on the person really! :)

Daydreamer.
January 9th, 2016, 02:42 AM
I can't really believe that... I have small curls and they retangle after detangling...

SteelRose
January 9th, 2016, 08:35 AM
I think this one is all too variable for different people, products, and hair types. I have 3 daughters. 2 got straight hair and 1 got my husband's curls. I know with them specifically, this holds true. My middle (the only curly) has far less trouble with knots. My oldest seems to have gotten an exact (if not straighter) copy of my hair, and hers is awful every day. Their hair is the same length and washed the same way. The oldest just seems to have inherited the easy tangle hair, poor kid. As with everything else YMMV.