View Full Version : Creme developer plus baking soda for lightening?
Jayke
December 5th, 2015, 08:42 PM
I have medium-dark brown hair and I want to lighten it without bleach. I want to lighten it between two to three shades. Not more. Actually, I think two would be sufficient.
I've seen YouTube videos where people lighten their very dark hair with only 3% hydrogen peroxide mixed with baking soda, among other things. I've also seen them use a honey mixture, and this supposedly works because honey itself contains a very small amount of peroxide.
My question is this: If I buy a 20-volume creme developer, which is 6% peroxide, and mix it with baking soda... would I be able to achieve what I'm aiming for?
If someone could provide some insight, I'd appreciate it. :)
Nique1202
December 6th, 2015, 05:21 AM
Developer IS hair bleach at a different concentration, as far as I know. Nearly all hair bleach is actually just a peroxide-based mixture, the main difference is what concentration it is. Also, I'm not sure why you want to avoid bleaching your hair. Is it out of concern about damage? All lightening treatments (yes, even honey and lemon juice) and all dyes with developer are damaging over time, because you're using chemicals (natural or artificial) to break down the colour pigments in your hair and they do the same breaking down of the cuticle and cortex as they do on the pigment molecules.
I'm not sure the baking soda would do anything to help lighten your hair in this case, either. A lot of people find that acids (vinegar, lemon juice, etc) lighten their hair a bit if they're left to dry in, but I've never heard of baking soda doing so, even for people who have washed their hair with it exclusively for months and months.
You'd probably be just as well off finding a boxed dye the colour you want and using that. At least then you'll know it won't go too light or get brassy as home lightening treatments are so apt to do.
lapushka
December 6th, 2015, 05:39 AM
3 shades lighter? Not even regular color will lighten that much. If I were you, I'd just choose a box dye that is *slightly* lighter than your hair; as the least damaging option.
3 shades lighter needs bleach. No way around it!
pastina
December 6th, 2015, 10:00 AM
The peroxide is what's most damaging, honestly. This mix sounds like it'd be damaging and drying and I'm not sure it'd really lift anything. I've heard of bleach powder and oils (with no peroxide in the mix) lightening hair a fair amount, but that's also drying.
...I'd just dilute the peroxide in a bleach mixture and lighten very gradually over the course of a few weeks until you get to the level you're after, using protein treatments in between.
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 12:49 PM
Thanks for all the replies. Wow, lots of conflicting information everywhere on the net. In one thread someone says developer alone definitely cannot lighten anything, and then in another one it says the exact opposite. In one thread it says peroxide is a form of bleach, and in another one it says bleach is something entirely different.
I am well aware that it is damaging, but ANY lightening procedure is damaging. You cannot lighten hair without damage, as the lightening process itself already damages hair. Honey is a "natural" way... but it works because the honey contains peroxide.
My logic is this: If people can lighten hair significantly using 3% peroxide and baking soda, why can't I achieve an even stronger effect with 20-vol developer and baking soda? Even the 3% + baking soda seems to do wonders, if the videos on YouTube are
Or should I just eliminate the baking soda and apply only creme developer? It seems there is no clear answer.
In any case, I need to be clear why I want to do all of this. I want to achieve a reddish color, copper-like, and I've seen people with henna have the exact hair color I want. However, I've applied henna to my brown hair in the past and it only turned reddish in light, and was barely noticable. I thought to lighten it perhaps two shades, and then apply henna afterwards, and I think the result would be very nice. So now I'm more confused than ever. Perhaps I should just do a strand test with 20-vol developer to see how much it would lighten after about 30 minutes.
TrapperCreekD
December 6th, 2015, 01:21 PM
I did something similar with household peroxide (3%) and conditioner for a DIY ombre. It turned out awesome and I was pleasantly surprised that my hair rolled with it and didn't turn into a super damaged mess.
http://i.imgur.com/YKCOcoN.png http://i.imgur.com/T52QAOh.png
cosmic crusader
December 6th, 2015, 01:37 PM
I remember one of the users here, Raemarthe, used baking soda for lightening and recommended against it!
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 01:40 PM
I remember one of the users here, Raemarthe, used baking soda for lightening and recommended against it!
Again, as I said, lots of conflicting information. One says it's awesome, the other it's okay, and the third one it's terrible. It seems there is not a single product or method out there which is praised by everyone. So, I am more confused than ever.
cosmic crusader
December 6th, 2015, 02:09 PM
Again, as I said, lots of conflicting information. One says it's awesome, the other it's okay, and the third one it's terrible. It seems there is not a single product or method out there which is praised by everyone. So, I am more confused than ever.
For sure, it's all YMMV. I did have a coworker who had probably 3B hair and after every shower, she'd mist her hair with a peroxide/water mixture. She wasn't going for length, but she ended up with a really pretty ombre.
I've washed my hair with shampoo mixed with baking soda for clarifying and it tore my wavy/straight fine hair up, so I stay away from baking soda now.
It probably has a lot to do with what you're starting with, as far as texture and condition!
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 02:26 PM
For sure, it's all YMMV. I did have a coworker who had probably 3B hair and after every shower, she'd mist her hair with a peroxide/water mixture. She wasn't going for length, but she ended up with a really pretty ombre.
I've washed my hair with shampoo mixed with baking soda for clarifying and it tore my wavy/straight fine hair up, so I stay away from baking soda now.
It probably has a lot to do with what you're starting with, as far as texture and condition!
I have straight hair.
kidari
December 6th, 2015, 02:38 PM
The most success I've had lightening my hair is using a powder lightener with a low volume peroxide developer and adding in a tablespoon of oil into it and then "painting" it in sections of hair instead of putting it all over. Depending on your hair, you don't even have to leave it in too long- sometimes 5 minutes is enough to lighten it to the level you want. Also, adding the oil into it prevents it from drying out so you don't necessarily have to use foils or anything. Why use lemon juice or baking soda or anything else that is still very harsh and damaging on your hair and leave it in for a long period of time when a lightener using a weaker developer gives you more precise results in around 10 minutes or less? Personally, I find that to be less damaging overall.
You could also do a bleach shampoo (powder lightener/peroxide developer/shampoo- equal parts) but that only lifts one level so overall it's not that noticeable... also if you already have dye in it or anything you can end up with lighter roots and still dark length/ends. That and you're likely to have to repeat this a few times to get it to the lightness you're happy with.
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 03:10 PM
Ok I have to admit the reasons I want to do this, and that is because I'm afraid of a PPD allergic reaction. I have used salon dye before and never had a reaction, but it's some form of OCD in me which makes me afraid to use it again. This is why I decided to first lighten it up and then use Henna.
However, I just did a google search and came across this: https://www.friseurbedarf-storemex.com/Haarfarben/KYO-Haircolor/Kupfer-Rot/KYO-Hair-Color-7-46-blond-kupferrot-100-ml::5578.html?MODsid=c6b3d8d0375e9bc0296acd50bccbe 5b0
It is without PPD and without ammonia, and is supposedly professional salon quality dye which is able to give you color four shades lighter. If I knew this would work, I'd buy it. Does anyone have any experiences with PPD-free permanent hair dyes?
lapushka
December 6th, 2015, 03:19 PM
Ok I have to admit the reasons I want to do this, and that is because I'm afraid of a PPD allergic reaction. I have used salon dye before and never had a reaction, but it's some form of OCD in me which makes me afraid to use it again. This is why I decided to first lighten it up and then use Henna.
However, I just did a google search and came across this: https://www.friseurbedarf-storemex.com/Haarfarben/KYO-Haircolor/Kupfer-Rot/KYO-Hair-Color-7-46-blond-kupferrot-100-ml::5578.html?MODsid=c6b3d8d0375e9bc0296acd50bccbe 5b0
It is without PPD and without ammonia, and is supposedly professional salon quality dye which is able to give you color four shades lighter. If I knew this would work, I'd buy it. Does anyone have any experiences with PPD-free permanent hair dyes?
PPD is not in bleach as far as I know, and in lighter colored dyes the concentration is far lower than in black dye for instance. Depends on what color you'll need, I guess.
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 03:30 PM
PPD is not in bleach as far as I know, and in lighter colored dyes the concentration is far lower than in black dye for instance. Depends on what color you'll need, I guess.
I know it's not in bleach, but my fear with bleach is a different one. I fear I will make it too light, or get burns, etc.
lapushka
December 6th, 2015, 03:36 PM
I know it's not in bleach, but my fear with bleach is a different one. I fear I will make it too light, or get burns, etc.
Why not go to a salon to have it done then. I know what it's like to ruin your hair (trust me, chemical cut/burn person talking here). You do not want to take it that far. If you are not experienced with color / bleaching, then leave it to a professional.
turtlelover
December 6th, 2015, 03:55 PM
DIY coloring isn't hard if you are going darker, or like a shade lighter, but you are inviting disaster to try to go 3 shades lighter on your own. Not to mention that when your re-touch the bleach later on, it is EXTREMELY hard to re-touch the new growth and not overlap on the previously lightened hair. Overlap with volume 10 peroxide isn't going to do much damage, overlap w/ stronger bleach solutions WILL cause damage. Some professional color could lift the hair 3 levels w/out bleach, but once again, you would be better of seeking help in this case. Edit: For lift w/out bleach, you will end up needing 30 or 40 volume developer which can once again cause some damage, even w/out bleach.
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 04:00 PM
Thanks again for the tips. Well, I did manage to go about 3 shades lighter using DIY coloring, with salon quality dye. As I said, my only problem now is because I am afraid of all the PPD horror stories out there.
lapushka
December 6th, 2015, 04:16 PM
Yes, like turtlelover said, the main thing is maintenance. How are you going to be able to maintain the color without overlapping the roots, and other such fun stuff.
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 04:41 PM
Yes, like turtlelover said, the main thing is maintenance. How are you going to be able to maintain the color without overlapping the roots, and other such fun stuff.
But isn't that a concern with any color?
Anyway, the KYO brand, PPD and ammonia free, seems to have great results. I am reading reviews on another forum, and everyone who tried it has nothing but praise. Perhaps I should just go ahead and order it.
turtlelover
December 6th, 2015, 04:46 PM
But isn't that a concern with any color?
Anyway, the KYO brand, PPD and ammonia free, seems to have great results. I am reading reviews on another forum, and everyone who tried it has nothing but praise. Perhaps I should just go ahead and order it.
All dye is not created equal. With demi color, which typically uses around 10 volume developer, you have a much wider margin of error when re-applying to the roots since little will happen if you do overlap it, aside from some mild banding. For me, demi color lifts about a shade, though it technically isn't supposed to, so it will make red tones show up better without a lot of damage. Good luck to you with whatever you decide. Let us know how it goes!
pastina
December 6th, 2015, 04:49 PM
Please don't use 40 volume developer. You're worried about chemical burns? That's how you get them.
Eta-- The shampoo + bleach method (aka, bleach bathing) is what I was hinting at in my earlier post. Why don't you check out www.hairdyeforum.com and ask there? They're full of really good advice when it comes to bleaching/lightening techniques.
Jayke
December 6th, 2015, 04:55 PM
All dye is not created equal. With demi color, which typically uses around 10 volume developer, you have a much wider margin of error when re-applying to the roots since little will happen if you do overlap it, aside from some mild banding. For me, demi color lifts about a shade, though it technically isn't supposed to, so it will make red tones show up better without a lot of damage. Good luck to you with whatever you decide. Let us know how it goes!
Just to let you know what I'm aiming for. If you take a look at this chart: https://i0.wp.com/www.vision-hair.net/catalog/images-produits/majiel%20rouge.jpg
My natural (and current) hair color is 5.4, and what I want to achieve is 7.40.
This is the product I plan on ordering: http://www.kyo-shop.de/haar-coloration/kupfer-rot/47/kyo-hair-color-100ml-blond-kupferrot-7.46?c=9021
It is permanent dye, with great reviews, and free of PPD and ammonia.
lapushka
December 7th, 2015, 09:08 AM
Keep us posted as to how it goes with the dye!
Jayke
December 8th, 2015, 03:09 PM
Sigh. After lots of thinking, I changed my mind. Since my main concern is PPD and it's negative reputation for being a carcinogenic etc., it seems that the "PPD-free" dyes have something which is very similar, actually PPD derivatives.
So I decided to try a different approach. I plan to lighten my hair and then use Henna. Since this isn't a Henna subforum, I have started a different thread here: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=135343
Since bleach doesn't have PPD, I am fine with it now. I will research the best method to do this, and I will also inquiry on hairdyeforum.com, as suggested by user "pastina".
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