Worried about my hair - drying ingredients

[Arctic]

Without going into the details of my medical condition or history, I recently started to use a medicated topical liquid on my scalp (doctor's orders).

My hair has been behaving strangely ever since, which led me taking a closer look at the ingredients, and I got a bit worried for my hair's health.

In addition to the active ingeredient - which I think is irrelevant to this post - and purified water there are:

Isopropyl alcohol
Carbomer 974P
Propylene glycol
Natrium (sodium) hydroxide = lye


Now I only apply this liquid to my scalp, hanging my head upside down while doing it (for easier application and minimum hair contact). I use only very little, as per instructions, so certainly not dousing my scalp/hair in this stuff.

Somehow the ingredients seems to work their way down my hair shafts, all the way to the tips (approaching APL). It makes my hair tangly and sticking together, in a word acting very strangely for my hair.

I am now worried if this stuff will trash my hair?
How could I protect my hair from it?

Note I cannot use oils because they cause acne and skin infection on me, so please do not suggest oiling. (No doubt someone will, anyway, ha ha :p)


I will need to use this liquid for 6 weeks, spread over 3 months time period, so 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off and so on.

Thusfar I can't see any other negative signs on my hair than the tangling/sticking together, but seeing it has so much alcohol and even lye, I became worried. I might be over-worrying though, I have read user experiences of this medication, and haven't seen anyone mentioning this stuff trashing their hair - but their hair might not be LHC quality hair. :cool:

[missrandie]

Perhaps instead of hanging upside down for application, lift your hair in sections and use a thin applicator tip to get it to the roots. That way gravity isn't helping the topical move down your hair.

How long does the stuff take to dry? If it takes a while, you might want to clip the sections up somehow while it is drying.

Once it is dry, are you braiding as usual? If so, that may be part of why it gets worked down the hair shafts.

Good luck!

[Arctic]

Perhaps instead of hanging upside down for application, lift your hair in sections and use a thin applicator tip to get it to the roots. That way gravity isn't helping the topical move down your hair.

How long does the stuff take to dry? If it takes a while, you might want to clip the sections up somehow while it is drying.

Once it is dry, arebyou braiding as usual? If so, that may be part of why it gets worked down the hair shafts.

Good luck!

MissRandie, I have tested the standing upright and applying part by part method too, but found the upside down method easier, and I can get away with little bit less liquid that way (which is good, the less one uses, says the instructions, the better).
Both upright and upside down methods lead to the tangling in my experience, but I might do some more testing with upright position.

The liquid seems to dry very quickly, but I haven't timed it. I's say if I apply to dry scalp, my scalp is dry in 5 minutes, but I would need to time it tonight to make sure.

I usually leave my hair down at least for a while after applying it, but might braid or bun after a while. I think I wear my hair up/down quite evenly 50% of the time in general.

I could try the clipping my hair up, thanks for all the ideas!

[Arctic]

Oh, and I should add, that when I apply it, only my scalp and the very roots seem to get damp, so it looks like the stuff really only gets to scalp, but yet it still causes tangling and sticky hair as low down as the tips.

[lapushka]

Maybe only apply it right before a wash, and detangle your hair before applying it.

[sweetaj]

Is it getting down the shaft when you're washing your hair? Maybe try coating the length in conditioner before you get your hair wet?

[Swan Maiden]

Do you have to wash it out after a certain amount of time, or do you apply and leave it on? If it's the first,could you coat your hair in a conditioner or something that works for your hair (aloe,honey...)
What about bagging the length in plastic?

[Arctic]

Maybe only apply it right before a wash, and detangle your hair before applying it.

Unfortunately it needs to be applied after washing (if it's wash day) per instructions. I need to use it daily.

It's not an issue of so much knotty-tangling that is taken care by detangling, but sticking together tightly tangling, that no detangling corrects - the hairs just stick together again. It's like bad case of build-up without build-up. :( That being said, maybe I will need to use my clarifying shampoo during this period more often than I already do, it might help.



Is it getting down the shaft when you're washing your hair? Maybe try coating the length in conditioner before you get your hair wet?

It might be, although I would imagine since I use it so little it would be absorbed by my skin by the time of next wash. I could try CWC washing though, my hair likes that (for short periods. It causes me build-up fast and a need to clarify often, so usually I avoid it. But temporarily like duing the medication, it could be very helpful!)


***

Today I'm planning to do a pre-poo deep treatment, I hope by moisturizing extra often during this time I could avoid any possibly drying/damage. Maybe I'll use my clarifying shampoo too. (deep treatment - clarifying - normal conditioner - leave in)

[Pol]

Is it getting down the shaft when you're washing your hair? Maybe try coating the length in conditioner before you get your hair wet?

I would definitely second this suggestion, in fact could you wet and condition your lengths before you apply the topical lotion to your scalp? Any barrier to protect your lengths whilst you apply sounds sensible to me. You could then bun/braid the lengths out the way until you wash to prevent the conditioner encouraging acne. I suppose this does depend on how soon you could wash your hair after application though. I doubt you want to walk around for days with conditioner in your hair!

Another thought - lye is extremely alkaline I believe, this could be causing the tangles possibly. Could you follow your washes with an acidic rinse? Something like diluted ACV or lemon juice. I'd definitely rinse it out though - don't want to cause a neutralisation reaction when you next apply your topical lotion!

Finally, this is all temporary by the sound of it, so I'm sure your hair will recover with plenty of love even if it's not too happy now!

Edit: Just saw your answers above, looks like some of my suggestions are not helpful, sorry. I'm sure you'll get there though!

[Arctic]

Do you have to wash it out after a certain amount of time, or do you apply and leave it on? If it's the first,could you coat your hair in a conditioner or something that works for your hair (aloe,honey...)
What about bagging the length in plastic?

I apply and leave it on, it should be re-applied once a day, regardless whether hair is washed or not. I am almost daily washer myself, so it does get washed every 24-48 hours or so.

It is possible the ingredients are not all absorbed by my skin during the time it's on my scalp, and possibly some of the ingredient will glide down my hair when I wash, so CWC might be very helpful. I will give it a try!

[lapushka]

Unfortunately it needs to be applied after washing (if it's wash day) per instructions. I need to use it daily.

It's not an issue of so much knotty-tangling that is taken care by detangling, but sticking together tightly tangling, that no detangling corrects - the hairs just stick together again. It's like bad case of build-up without build-up. :( That being said, maybe I will need to use my clarifying shampoo during this period more often than I already do, it might help.

I had to have a cortisone lotion for a while after a chemical burn/cut, and I applied that daily as well, I think. I don't remember tangles from it, though. Nor was anything sticking together. Maybe detangle what you can when you need to wash and leave the rest to your shampoo.

[Arctic]

I would definitely second this suggestion, in fact could you wet and condition your lengths before you apply the topical lotion to your scalp? Any barrier to protect your lengths whilst you apply sounds sensible to me. You could then bun/braid the lengths out the way until you wash to prevent the conditioner encouraging acne. I suppose this does depend on how soon you could wash your hair after application though. I doubt you want to walk around for days with conditioner in your hair!

Another thought - lye is extremely alkaline I believe, this could be causing the tangles possibly. Could you follow your washes with an acidic rinse? Something like diluted ACV or lemon juice. I'd definitely rinse it out though - don't want to cause a neutralisation reaction when you next apply your topical lotion!

Finally, this is all temporary by the sound of it, so I'm sure your hair will recover with plenty of love even if it's not too happy now!

Edit: Just saw your answers above, looks like some of my suggestions are not helpful, sorry. I'm sure you'll get there though!

Thanks for the ideas and reassurances about this only being temporary!

Acidic rinse sounds very good idea, indeed the sticky-tangly issue might be from cuticles sticking out due to alkaline ingredients. My hair and scalp like acidic rinses, so I could try them to see if they make a difference.

I do use leave-in conditioner after washing, and although I usually wash every day, on the rare days I don't, my hairtype allows me to reapply leave-in without looking horrible. So I could try to always apply leave-in right before the scalp liquid. Hmm, now that I think of it, I have been using my leave-in after the scalp medication lately. I'll definitely change that order starting from today.

[Arctic]

I had to have a cortisone lotion for a while after a chemical burn/cut, and I applied that daily as well, I think. I don't remember tangles from it, though. Nor was anything sticking together. Maybe detangle what you can when you need to wash and leave the rest to your shampoo.

That's probably something I have to do: mostly ignore the sticking together hair during this time the medication lasts. I'm sure the active ingredient (cortisone) is not behind the tangliness, but the alcohol and lye. Maybe your medication had more hair friendly composition. (And to think this one I am using is formulated for scalp especially, yet seems so hair un-friendly.)

[pailin]

I wouldn't worry too much about the lye, simply because it's probably there to adjust the pH to whatever is necessary for the active ingredients. Since this stuff does make your hair tangly, I'd use braids/buns etc as much as possible just to cut down on the need to detangle. And experiment with clarifying more often, plus maybe some extra deep treatments, to see if that helps. And try leave ins, especially things that give a lot of slip.

[Arctic]

I wouldn't worry too much about the lye, simply because it's probably there to adjust the pH to whatever is necessary for the active ingredients. Since this stuff does make your hair tangly, I'd use braids/buns etc as much as possible just to cut down on the need to detangle. And experiment with clarifying more often, plus maybe some extra deep treatments, to see if that helps. And try leave ins, especially things that give a lot of slip.

Thank you, very down to earth, practica advice :D It would probably be wise to just have it up like you said, and I can very well ramp up my updo/braid time (versus hair down), I do love having my hair up.

Silicones, another good idea! I am usually silicone-free most of the time, but I have Got2B Smoothing Lotion (Smooth Operator for Americans) which is chock full of silicones - I can most definitely use than over my leave-in!

[Beborani]

Sodium hydroxide is there to adjust the ph as carbomer is acidic--I don't know the ph of your solution but I doubt it is high as it is a skin medication. It wont be in the form of lye but rather converted to salt and water. I have both ethyl alcohol and propylene glycol in my minoxidil and other than slight humectant effect it is pretty much benign. I apply twice a day and wash every three days or so.

[Arctic]

Sodium hydroxide is there to adjust the ph as carbomer is acidic--I don't know the ph of your solution but I doubt it is high as it is a skin medication. It wont be in the form of lye but rather converted to salt and water. I have both propyl alcohol and ethylene glycol in my minoxidil and other than slight humectant effect it is pretty much benign. I apply twice a day and wash every three days or so.

Thanks Beborani, it's a relief to know the lye is not there in harmful form. I don't know much about chemistry, mostly just about common hair/skin care ingredients I've been reading about from the net. I guess the alcohol then might be the culprit for my tangliness, like I first suspected.

Have you noticed any drying/tangling or other issue for your own hair with prolonged use of those ingredients?

[Beborani]

Not at all. Initially when my hair was sparser the humectant effect of propylene glycol made it stickier closer to the scalp and made it look sparser but over time I welcome it as it prevents tiny new hair from sticking out.

The alcohol is going to evaporate rather quickly without leaving any residue. Carbomer is used in gels and it might be the culprit making your hair sticky.

[MsPharaohMoan]

Hopefully you're already doing this, but remember to wash your hands after applying the scalp goo and before you touch the rest of your hair :)

[Arctic]

Beborani, good to know!


Hopefully you're already doing this, but remember to wash your hands after applying the scalp goo and before you touch the rest of your hair :)

Yes I do, and most importantly, before I touch my (rest of the) skin, eyes, mouth or my dog :D Both doctor and instruction leaflet highlighted the importance of washing hands right after the application.

[renia22]

Have you tried oiling your length?

Just kidding! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/grin-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

In all seriousness now :), when you hang your hair upside down, is the medication on your fingertips & you are then trying to get to the scalp? Perhaps too much is managing to get in your hair? Sometimes when I apply my aloe & rosemary and I don't want it getting all over my hair, I keep my head upright and I separate my hair into sections with a comb, an inch at a time, starting at the center part, working my way down one side of my head, then the other side, then the back. I seem to be able to get more right on my scalp and less on my length that way. Perhaps that method might help you too?

p.s. uh oh, nevermind, I see you mentioned you didn't like the upright method that much:/

[Anje]

(Haven't read all the responses yet, sorry...)

The isopropanol is the only one I'd really worry about. My gut says that the propylene glycol is humectant. The carbomer is a thickener, and the sodium hydroxide is only going to be there to bring the pH to one that's safe and acceptable to be applied to your skin. I wouldn't be surprised if the carbomer or propylene glycol made your hair act coated and sticky and weird, though, until they're washed off. In short, I doubt this will trash your hair. It might dry it a little, but nothing a bit of conditioning wouldn't fix up, I'll bet.

ETA: It's worth mentioning that my aloe gel also has carbomer, and I dislike it as a leave-in because it makes my hair tangly. It might be the cause.

[Arctic]

Have you tried oiling your length?

Just kidding! http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/grin-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

LOL!



In all seriousness now :), when you hang your hair upside down, is the medication on your fingertips & you are then trying to get to the scalp? Perhaps too much is managing to get in your hair? Sometimes when I apply my aloe & rosemary and I don't want it getting all over my hair, I keep my head upright and I separate my hair into sections with a comb, an inch at a time, starting at the center part, working my way down one side of my head, then the other side, then the back. I seem to be able to get more right on my scalp and less on my length that way. Perhaps that method might help you too?

p.s. uh oh, nevermind, I see you mentioned you didn't like the upright method that much:/

Thanks for the idea, I see where you are coming from. Yes I did try the upright position, and I feel I get more medication on my hair that way, and end up using a bit more of it (which leads to bigger chance of unwanted side-effects). I feel I have perfected the upside down method, I have used it with my DIY scalp treatments for a long time, and I feel I only get the medication (or other treatment) on the scalp and at the roots. I can give it a fair try again though, to see if it makes a difference.




(Haven't read all the responses yet, sorry...)

The isopropanol is the only one I'd really worry about. My gut says that the propylene glycol is humectant. The carbomer is a thickener, and the sodium hydroxide is only going to be there to bring the pH to one that's safe and acceptable to be applied to your skin. I wouldn't be surprised if the carbomer or propylene glycol made your hair act coated and sticky and weird, though, until they're washed off. In short, I doubt this will trash your hair. It might dry it a little, but nothing a bit of conditioning wouldn't fix up, I'll bet.

ETA: It's worth mentioning that my aloe gel also has carbomer, and I dislike it as a leave-in because it makes my hair tangly. It might be the cause.

Thank you so much (and everyone else too) for reassuring that my hair will be fine. I am a "worst case scenario" type of person, and really started to worry if such a long time using this stuff will ruin or damage my hair.

It might be that ingredient that is the culprit. It's very interesting though, how it even gets down to my hemline. I feel I am so careful with applying it, I use very little of it, it dries quickly and doesn't leave my roots feeling producty, it feels like it is fully absorbed by my skin - yet it somehow travels down to the hem. I knew from experience that oils can travel that way - I can get acne on my face and scalp if I put oil .on my hemline, so I guess it's not so surprising other ingredients can do so, too.


***

Update: I did pre-poo SMT, used clarifying shampoo, then normal conditioner, and leave-in. Over leave-in I used silicone lotion both before the medication. I applied again upside down (it just feels easier for me, but I can do some futher testing during the coming days - I have time) and paid extra attention to whether I got the liquid on my lengths or not. I really feel I get it pretty neatly on scalp and roots only, I have very well honed technique - although it wouldn't surprise me if some ends up on the lengths. It would be the same with upright position too, some is surely going to end up on lengths.

Hair feels better now, but is still a bit tanglier than normal.


Thanks everybody for the ideas and advice and calm voices :flowers:

[renia22]

Good luck, Arctic. One other thing, whether upright or upside down, have you tried using a q-tip? It would take a little longer than using your finger tips, and it does absorb a little bit of liquid, but it reaches its saturation point pretty quickly. It seems to get liquid right on the scalp without getting all over the hair (maybe just a little), and then you can squeeze whatever is left on to your scalp so you don't waste any of the med. Just another idea in case you find it's still getting on your length..

[Arctic]

Renia22 that was a good idea! I tried it after my last wash, and it did seem to get the liquid only on scalp (as much as it's possible when there is hair growing all over, lol). However making the partings was difficult with wet hair, causing tangles. And I felt like I wasn't getting it so that the whole scalp was evenly covered: it felt like only the part area got the medication but not the area right next to it (even though I tried to make the parts very near to eachother). By the time I was ready to massage my scalp to spead it allover, the liquid had long before dried/absorbed. This technique might work on thicker stuff better, stuff that doesn't dry so quickly.

***

I have been testing a bit - little tweaks here and there. I get the best scalp coverage with my upside down method, hands down, and it's the fastest too. Since you all reassured me the stuff isn't going to do any permanent damage (maybe some temporary drying and tangliness only), I've relaxed about it, and started to think that the even scalp coverage is more important than going to great lengths avoiding getting any of it in my hair (or worry about it traveling down my hair strands).

I've had some relief on the tangliness with good ol'silicones :) I make sure I apply my leave in and over it a very coney smoothing lotion, right before the scalp treatment, and this seems to have cut down the worse of tangling issues, so yay! I think I can live with this tangliness level till the treatment is over.

Thanks again for everybody!!! :flowers:

[lapushka]

Good luck with the rest of your treatment, Arctic, whatever the reason is you're using it (none of our business if you're not ready to share)! :flower: