"Synthetic" feeling hair.............

[Rapunzel_to_be]

Hey guys!

So I have tried out two different shampoos and conditioners ( from the same brand) which are with natural ingredients and supposed to be very good, but my hair ends up feeling kind of synthetic and too light, and I also notice that my curl pattern gets a little dragged down somehow and that many of my curls just get split up so it almost looks like frizz...my hair basically looks pretty lifeless... sorry if I'm not explaining very well... but has anyone had the same experience ? and does anyone know why ?

I'm a little sad because I would love to use these products since they are with good ingredients... but I also don't want to look like this ...

I will list the ingredients below in case some of you will figure out something by looking at them :)

Shampoo 1 :

Aloe barbadensis leaf juice(50%), Aqua [Water], Sodium coceth sulfate, Sodium cocoamphoacetate, Cocamidopropyl betaine, Betaine, Maris sal, Panthenol, Glycerin, Hydroxypropyltrimonium hydrolyzed wheat protein, Potassium olivoyl/lauroyl wheat amino acids, Citric acid, Parfum [Fragrance], PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil, Phenoxyethanol, Trideceth-5, Polyquaternium-47, Trideceth-10, Benzoic acid, Limonene, Hexyl cinnamal, Sodium gluconate, Dehydroacetic acid, Amodimethicone, Linalool, Butylphenyl methylpropional, Ethylhexylglycerin

Conditioner 1 :

Aloe barbadensis leaf juice (50%), Aqua [Water], Cetearyl alcohol, Behentrimonium chloride, Betaine, Dimethicone, Dipalmitoylethyl hydroxyethylmonium methosulfate, Cetrimonium chloride, Amodimethicone, Butyrospermum parkii (Shea butter), Myristyl alcohol, Panthenol, Citric acid, Tocopherol, Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, Parfum [Fragrance], Sodium gluconate, Phenoxyethanol, Ceteareth-20, Trideceth-12, Limonene, Benzoic acid, Hexyl cinnamal, Dehydroacetic acid, Linalool, Butylphenyl methylpropional, Ethylhexylglycerin

Shampoo 2 :

Aqua [Water], Sodium coceth sulfate, Sodium cocoamphoacetate, Cocamidopropyl betaine, Inulin, PEG-40 hydrogenated castor oil, Potassium olivoyl/lauroyl wheat amino acids, Panthenol, Linum usitatissimum (Linseed) seed oil, Shea butter glycereth-8 esters, Hydrolyzed rice protein, Coco-glucoside, Hydrolyzed wheat protein, Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, Xanthan gum, Hydroxypropyltrimonium hydrolyzed wheat protein, Citric acid, Sodium gluconate, Parfum [Fragrance], Benzoic acid, Phenoxyethanol, Dehydroacetic acid, PEG-200 hydrogenated glyceryl palmate, Trideceth-9, PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate, Polyquaternium-47, Polysorbate 20, Styrene/acrylates copolymer, Linalool, Hexyl cinnamal, Ethylhexylglycerin.

Conditioner 2 : Could't find it online, but it contains olive oil( which is mentioned several places in the ingredients list) , silicones , argan oil and some other chemical stuff..

[Arctic]

I don't know if the INCIs look particularly "natural" (what ever that means). I'm not an expert of any kind, though, just someone who's been reading INCIs from the products I use and googling the ingredients over the years.

For example about the sulphate used: http://personalcaretruth.com/2011/02/the-importance-of-saying-yes-to-critical-thinking/

They are fine looking products, yes, but maybe not really that different from an avarage ones. If they are being sold as natural, it seems like green washing.

All the products have stuff that can coat your hair shafts, and create buildup. The shampoos also have protein, and if your hair doesn't need/like it, that might also be causing problems.

[lapushka]

You have to use the products your hair likes, not the products you like to use, that's my N°1 rule. It's not about what you like, it's about what your hair likes. So go back to what did work, that would be my advice.

[pailin]

I notice when I use conditoners with cones (after a long time without) that are also heavy enough to leave my hair actually moisturized, my hair feels different. Maybe faintly plasticky or something? For now I think I'm going with the cones anyway, though, just because it is so much easier to detangle.
Reading the ingredients may be helpful if there are things you know don't work well for you, but in the end it is usually more important whether it works for you. If it does keep using it; if not, don't buy it again.

[missblueeyes]

Honestly? Those aren't really what I would call 'good ingredients' (at least not #1 and #2) but if you hair likes them, go ahead and use them. Concerning your curl pattern being dragged down, I guess that might be the doing of the silicones in shampoo #1 and conditioner #1 or the polyquats in shampoo #2.

[Nique1202]

Those shampoos have an AWFUL lot of additives, which can absolutely build up and make hair feel weird faster than if they were only in conditioner. As pointed out above, too, neither looks particularly "natural" or "green" or even "organic" or whatever other thing you're going for, just the presence of silicones should indicate that let alone all those long names with dashes in them (which indicates a manmade compound). That's not bad AT ALL (I am 100% against "natural" for "natural"'s sake alone because it's a nearly meaningless label) but all those ingredients means there's a couple dozen things that could be causing your hair to feel weird and it's hard to narrow down which it could be when you're using them all.

Best recommendation has already been stated above: go back to what works, at least for a few washes. If you really want to, try ONE new product at a time, either a shampoo or conditioner, and see how your hair feels to narrow down which one is causing the problem.

[Seeshami]

I would clarify and chelate too.

[Rapunzel_to_be]

I don't know if the INCIs look particularly "natural" (what ever that means). I'm not an expert of any kind, though, just someone who's been reading INCIs from the products I use and googling the ingredients over the years.

For example about the sulphate used: http://personalcaretruth.com/2011/02/the-importance-of-saying-yes-to-critical-thinking/

They are fine looking products, yes, but maybe not really that different from an avarage ones. If they are being sold as natural, it seems like green washing.

All the INCIs have stuff that can coat your hair shafts, and create buildup. The shampoos also have protein, and if your hair doesn't need/like it, that might also be causing problems.

What are INCIs ?

[Rapunzel_to_be]

I notice when I use conditoners with cones (after a long time without) that are also heavy enough to leave my hair actually moisturized, my hair feels different. Maybe faintly plasticky or something? For now I think I'm going with the cones anyway, though, just because it is so much easier to detangle.
Reading the ingredients may be helpful if there are things you know don't work well for you, but in the end it is usually more important whether it works for you. If it does keep using it; if not, don't buy it again.

Ah this might be the problem, I never thought of that, but my usual shampoo and conditioner are without silicones, so my hair has been without for a while, so maybe thats why this is happening, thanks for sharing your experience :)

[Rapunzel_to_be]

You have to use the products your hair likes, not the products you like to use, that's my N°1 rule. It's not about what you like, it's about what your hair likes. So go back to what did work, that would be my advice.

Yes of course I will go back to what works, I for sure won't continue using something that my hair doesn't like, but I just wanted to know why this was happening since it happened with two different shampoo and conditioners which I though were natural, but have learned from you guys now that they are not.

[pailin]

Ah this might be the problem, I never thought of that, but my usual shampoo and conditioner are without silicones, so my hair has been without for a while, so maybe thats why this is happening, thanks for sharing your experience :)

You're welcome, I spent some time wondering whether it was a bad conditioner (in my case). But I think silicones just feel different to me.

[Arctic]

INCI ="International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients" - I tend to use it for ingredient list in general, because it's short (and because these lists usually are INCIs).

[lapushka]

Yes of course I will go back to what works, I for sure won't continue using something that my hair doesn't like, but I just wanted to know why this was happening since it happened with two different shampoo and conditioners which I though were natural, but have learned from you guys now that they are not.

Just out of curiosity... what were you using before this? And did you clarify before changing up your routine?

[meteor]

Rapunzel_to_be, I'd clarify in this situation and go back to the products you liked before. :)
Honestly, there are so many conditioning ingredients in the products you listed that have some build-up potential that it's hard to tell what exactly could be causing this.

Personally, I tend to get that plastic-y, synthetic-feeling hair specifically when I use conditioners and shampoos with dimethicone (and some other silicones that are not soluble in water) very high up on the ingredients list. (Your conditioner does list dimethicone very high up.) Sometimes it's dimethicone paired up with some volatile silicones (which, among other things, help spreadability of other cones as they evaporate). Personally, I just make sure to rotate these with lighter products, e.g. with cones like amodimethicone instead, so I don't stress over that, because silicones are easy to clarify anyway, but if you dislike that feeling, it might be important for you to read up on silicones and check which ones give you best results? :flower:
Silicone Ingredient Solubility List - http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html

[Rapunzel_to_be]

Just out of curiosity... what were you using before this? And did you clarify before changing up your routine?

I was using just an ordinary shampoo and conditioner, a drugstore one, from a brand called Balea, it's german, they sell it at a store called DM, so I don't know if everyone here has heard about it. Its basically just without silicones and I think it has everything else ( with that I mean sulfates etc) . Before using this brand without silicones, I was using dove and also syoss, and both of them have silicones and my hair didn't feel weird or look weird. I've gone back to my balea shampoo and conditioner now though :)

And no I did not clarify, I honestly didn't know that I have to when i change shampoos. Clarifying is when you for example rinse your scalp with apple cider vinegar right ? Cause I usually do that once a month.

[Rapunzel_to_be]

Rapunzel_to_be, I'd clarify in this situation and go back to the products you liked before. :)
Honestly, there are so many conditioning ingredients in the products you listed that have some build-up potential that it's hard to tell what exactly could be causing this.

Personally, I tend to get that plastic-y, synthetic-feeling hair specifically when I use conditioners and shampoos with dimethicone (and some other silicones that are not soluble in water) very high up on the ingredients list. (Your conditioner does list dimethicone very high up.) Sometimes it's dimethicone paired up with some volatile silicones (which, among other things, help spreadability of other cones as they evaporate). Personally, I just make sure to rotate these with lighter products, e.g. with cones like amodimethicone instead, so I don't stress over that, because silicones are easy to clarify anyway, but if you dislike that feeling, it might be important for you to read up on silicones and check which ones give you best results? :flower:
Silicone Ingredient Solubility List - http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/silicone-ingredient-solubility-list.html

Thank you so much, it sounds like this is my problem and I'm going to read the link you posted to learn more :) And also now I know that I should clarify when changing shampoos :) You ladies are the best :* <3

[lapushka]

I was using just an ordinary shampoo and conditioner, a drugstore one, from a brand called Balea, it's german, they sell it at a store called DM, so I don't know if everyone here has heard about it. Its basically just without silicones and I think it has everything else ( with that I mean sulfates etc) . Before using this brand without silicones, I was using dove and also syoss, and both of them have silicones and my hair didn't feel weird or look weird. I've gone back to my balea shampoo and conditioner now though :)

And no I did not clarify, I honestly didn't know that I have to when i change shampoos. Clarifying is when you for example rinse your scalp with apple cider vinegar right ? Cause I usually do that once a month.

I'm familiar with Balea (live in Belgium and know you can get it in Germany), but I thought they were sulfate and silicone free.

No you need to clarify when changing up routines. Clarifying is NOT rinsing with ACV, that is not enough. You need to wash with a regular "sulfate no silicone" shampoo for that.

[parkmikii]

I think the plastic feeling might be because of the past silicones that the shampoo didn't wash out well? I too use Balea products and I have no problem with them. They are silicone free but they do have sulfates

[Rapunzel_to_be]

I'm familiar with Balea (live in Belgium and know you can get it in Germany), but I thought they were sulfate and silicone free.

No you need to clarify when changing up routines. Clarifying is NOT rinsing with ACV, that is not enough. You need to wash with a regular "sulfate no silicone" shampoo for that.

Ok so does that mean Im clarifying my hair every time I wash my hair with my balea shampoo? Since it is with sulfates and without silicones?

And thank you for the info, I was not aware that I needed to do this :)

[Rapunzel_to_be]

I think the plastic feeling might be because of the past silicones that the shampoo didn't wash out well? I too use Balea products and I have no problem with them. They are silicone free but they do have sulfates

I also do not have any problems with balea :) It was some other shampoo and conditioners which I tried that caused the problem, but my hair is great whenever I use balea. Like some of the others suggested, it might be cause I do not use silicones ( since balea has no silicones) then the new shampoos I tried contained a lot of silicones which might have made my hair feel that way :)

[lapushka]

Ok so does that mean Im clarifying my hair every time I wash my hair with my balea shampoo? Since it is with sulfates and without silicones?

And thank you for the info, I was not aware that I needed to do this :)

Pretty much. There are special shampoos that are more geared towards "clarifying" and you might get more build up off with those, but a regular "sulfate no silicone" shampoo can do a lot. So, yeah.

[Rapunzel_to_be]

Pretty much. There are special shampoos that are more geared towards "clarifying" and you might get more build up off with those, but a regular "sulfate no silicone" shampoo can do a lot. So, yeah.

Ok thank you :)

[missblueeyes]

I'm just gonna jump in to say that I personally feel a big difference between a regular "sls, no cones" shampoo and a clarifying shampoo that's meant to remove ALL build-up. That comes from someone who hasn't used regular sulfates (except for coco-sulfates, which my scalp doesn't like) in quite a while and who doesn't use cones. That being said, I rarely have to deal with build-up, but when I do, I usually bust out the big guns just so I can be sure it's gone in one wash. :) For me, protein build-up usually doesn't need a full clarify but build-up from hard water, soap or 'cones certainly does.

[Arctic]

I'm just gonna jump in to say that I personally feel a big difference between a regular "sls, no cones" shampoo and a clarifying shampoo that's meant to remove ALL build-up. That comes from someone who hasn't used regular sulfates (except for coco-sulfates, which my scalp doesn't like) in quite a while and who doesn't use cones. That being said, I rarely have to deal with build-up, but when I do, I usually bust out the big guns just so I can be sure it's gone in one wash. :) For me, protein build-up usually doesn't need a full clarify but build-up from hard water, soap or 'cones certainly does.

I agree, many regular shampoos, regardless of being no silicone, yes sulphates types, have other ingredients that can coat hairs. Some regular shampoos seem better being able to clarify (or close-to-clarify) than others, but a proper clarifying shampoo is the best bet.

PS. coco-sulphate is to my understanding chemically same as sodium lauryl suplhate

[lapushka]

PS. coco-sulphate is to my understanding chemically same as sodium lauryl suplhate

I always thought it was a milder version.

[Nique1202]

I always thought it was a milder version.

Cocamidyl betaine is a milder version and probably what you're thinking of, but there's a sodium coco sulfate and olefin sulfonates that are comparable to SLS in harshness, but because they're usually directly refined from coconut they're "natural" and thought to be better by people who don't know the science.