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school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 07:10 PM
As much as I love and accept my straight hair, there are times when I crave a little wave... but I'm having some trouble making it happen attractively.

If I bun dry I get some volume and a couple of bumps, but nothing with any definition - it just looks like I pulled my hair out of a bun.

If I damp bun I can get some waves but it only looks good for about 30 seconds right out of the bun - as soon as it starts to dry the waves go stringy and unappealing. If I wait for it to dry completely and then gently comb it out I get a cotton candy-like frizz. But if I comb out the waves with any dampness left I just end up straightening them out again.

I've tried with and without product - my hair really hates pretty much any kind of leave-in or styling product so I've focused more effort on succeeding with water or water/aloe only. No real successes as of yet ;)

Does anyone else experience this? And more specifically, have you found a way around it? I have this crazy dream of maybe discovering some kind of sleep bun system that allows me to wake up to glorious waves or even being able to go out in public wearing some sort of non-shaming bun-curl-style during the day that can give me waves for a night out...

Or even if you haven't found the solution I'd love to hear about it and know I'm not alone! :D

Rowdy
October 6th, 2015, 07:20 PM
Have you tried rope braids? They might give a more consistent wave pattern

Seeshami
October 6th, 2015, 07:30 PM
My hair will get stringy if it's twisted at its current length. Shorter it use to give me waves but now I have to use braids

school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 08:03 PM
Have you tried rope braids? They might give a more consistent wave pattern

I haven't had a lot of success with rope braids - or braids in general for that matter - betwee braid shred and super slippy texture :( It's been a while though since I've tried, maybe I should give it another shot. Thank you!

school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 08:09 PM
My hair will get stringy if it's twisted at its current length. Shorter it use to give me waves but now I have to use braids

Good to know! I've tried cinnabun, bee butt, figure-8... all twisty structures. Maybe I've just reached a length that won't respond to twisting for curl, given my hairtype. Helpful insight, thank you!

Rowdy
October 6th, 2015, 08:14 PM
Hmmm slippery hair can be tricky. Maybe something like this? http://www.aliexpress.com/foam-roller-set_reviews.html

Have you tried multiple smaller buns? My hair is only 26" long but I need to do 2-3 cinnabuns to get good bun waves.

Edit: Oh I just saw that you said the twisty part may be the problem..

lillielil
October 6th, 2015, 08:27 PM
Twisty buns mean bad frizzy waves for me too. I can get really nice smooth waves from a LWB though. It also helps if you can keep it loose enough so that it dries while still bunned. To do that I have to start with just barely damp. It sounds like you might be starting with wetter hair.

Clarkie
October 6th, 2015, 08:30 PM
Twisty buns mean bad frizzy waves for me too. I can get really nice smooth waves from a LWB though. It also helps if you can keep it loose enough so that it dries while still bunned. To do that I have to start with just barely damp. It sounds like you might be starting with wetter hair.

I just figured this out for myself. I did 3 twisty buns on pretty damp hair. Woke up to tangly, frizzy curls and lost quite a few strands trying to deal with it. I did a moderate oiling last night to sooth the ends. I'll definitely use your LWB idea next time. Do you do just one and get decent waves?

school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 08:32 PM
Hmmm slippery hair can be tricky. Maybe something like this? http://www.aliexpress.com/foam-roller-set_reviews.html

Have you tried multiple smaller buns? My hair is only 26" long but I need to do 2-3 cinnabuns to get good bun waves.

Edit: Oh I just saw that you said the twisty part may be the problem..

Yep, I think Seeshami may be onto something - I don't get so much of that stringiness with a lazy wrap (although I don't really get a good wave pattern from it either, haha), so maybe there's something about the twisted compression that lends itself to a stringy result on my kind of hair.

I may have to settle for some sort of roller set like the one you linked to. My hair really resists curl but I do know I can beat it into submission with a full-on wet-set :)

I've just been hoping I might come up with some way to bun curl so I could leave the house and go about my day without rollers on my head, haha!!

Frankenstein
October 6th, 2015, 08:33 PM
I tend to have the same problem; bun waves are so hit and miss for me. It seems like they will stay in a little longer and look nicer if I damp bun and leave it that way for a whole day or more, but that's a bit time-consuming for me. So while I probably don't have the solution, you aren't alone :)

Anje
October 6th, 2015, 08:41 PM
Random thought: I wonder if your hair is getting too moisturized in the buns and that's contributing to the stringiness. That's the sort of trick my hair might pull. ;) Give it a shot some time after you've only used a light conditioner (maybe diluted), or even skip the conditioner entirely on the wash, then bun when the hair's a smidge damp.

school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 08:42 PM
Twisty buns mean bad frizzy waves for me too. I can get really nice smooth waves from a LWB though. It also helps if you can keep it loose enough so that it dries while still bunned. To do that I have to start with just barely damp. It sounds like you might be starting with wetter hair.

Yes, I can get some decent volume from a lazy wrap, but the wave pattern is a rather strange one. Still, it's what I use given that I haven't found anything better ;)

I've pretty much given up on attempting to bun with hair wet from the shower, even partially or mostly dried. I wait until it's 100% dry and then give it a few spritzes of water from a fine mister or a few strokes with a dampened comb, so it's really just barely damp. My hair's a mess of contradictions - loose it dries almost completely in about an hour but contained in any kind of bun or braid it literally takes days to dry!

Maybe I need to experiment with some lazy wrap variations, hmmm..... :)

school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 08:43 PM
I tend to have the same problem; bun waves are so hit and miss for me. It seems like they will stay in a little longer and look nicer if I damp bun and leave it that way for a whole day or more, but that's a bit time-consuming for me. So while I probably don't have the solution, you aren't alone :)

It IS good to know I'm not alone, thank you!!

school of fish
October 6th, 2015, 08:47 PM
Random thought: I wonder if your hair is getting too moisturized in the buns and that's contributing to the stringiness. That's the sort of trick my hair might pull. ;) Give it a shot some time after you've only used a light conditioner (maybe diluted), or even skip the conditioner entirely on the wash, then bun when the hair's a smidge damp.

Ooooohhh.... that is a good thought! I've been really hitting the moisture with CO washing and SMTs because it's been making my hair look, feel and act so much better when it's down, but maybe I need to ease up a bit if I want it to behave in waves - will try!! Thank you!!!

Horrorpops
October 6th, 2015, 10:29 PM
I couldnt tell from your OP but have you tried damp bunning on just slightly damp hair (so it will dry by morning), not adding any extra oils/moisturizing creams and then letting it completely dry. Then let down the hair and use your fingers to gently tease apart the waves as needed.

Not combing and letting my hair dry fully in the bun before I take it down generally gives me the best results! :)

Personally I find when creating curls or waves that:
Combing + dried curls/waves = crazy frizz
Combing + wet or damp curls = no curls just straight again

Hope this helps! :)

lillielil
October 6th, 2015, 10:30 PM
I just figured this out for myself. I did 3 twisty buns on pretty damp hair. Woke up to tangly, frizzy curls and lost quite a few strands trying to deal with it. I did a moderate oiling last night to sooth the ends. I'll definitely use your LWB idea next time. Do you do just one and get decent waves?

It just takes one for me, but I have not-quite-BSL fine, thin-ish hair. I make the first loop over two fingers, not my whole hand, because otherwise there isn't enough to wrap around, if that gives you an idea of the length/volume I am dealing with. To be honest, I rarely do it overnight. I usually wash in the morning, let it mostly dry, and put it up when I get to work. By afternoon when I take it down I have pretty waves.

Maybe try two buns up on top of your head for overnight, wrapped in opposite directions.

HintOfMint
October 6th, 2015, 11:57 PM
I'm thinking your hair has to dry completely in the bun/rope braids/regular braids. Try waiting until your hair is mostly dry before putting it up.

I kind of come at it from the opposite direction though, I use damp buns to smooth/straighten my hair while maintaining root volume and body. In any case, the desired effect is pretty much lost if it doesn't dry completely in the bun.

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 04:29 AM
I couldnt tell from your OP but have you tried damp bunning on just slightly damp hair (so it will dry by morning), not adding any extra oils/moisturizing creams and then letting it completely dry. Then let down the hair and use your fingers to gently tease apart the waves as needed.

Not combing and letting my hair dry fully in the bun before I take it down generally gives me the best results! :)

Personally I find when creating curls or waves that:
Combing + dried curls/waves = crazy frizz
Combing + wet or damp curls = no curls just straight again

Hope this helps! :)

What you've described is pretty much my approach, you've just articulated it much better than I did in my OP :)

I'm finding it a real challenge to get the amount of dampness balanced with the length of time it takes to dry - it seems that no matter how many hours I keep my bun in my hair it never dries completely until the bun is released... and then that stringiness occurs as it finishes drying while down. I know separating the strands gently with the fingers is supposed to reduce the issues that come up when you comb out waves, but when I try that it doesn't improve the look at all and just increases the tangles :(

Just had a thought - maybe I'll try making the bun on 100% dry hair, THEN spritzing lightly with water and keeping it up for a day or overnight. Perhaps that will give the moisture more chance to evaporate so I'm not taking down a still-damp bun. Something to try at least :)

Thank you for your suggestions, I really do appreciate them!

Upside Down
October 7th, 2015, 04:34 AM
If it isn't completely dry, I'd let it down for a short while and no manipulation and minimize movement, then when juuust very slightly damp, bun again. This gives me the best results.

I wash in the evening, air dry for a while (frizz goes wild), bun it for the nigh, wake up with damp but no longer frizzy hair, let down while my lo is taking his nap and re bun after this. Gives me pretty waves for that evening.

It is time consuming, though.

Maybe you could wash in the afternoon, air dry for longer, sleep in a bun and let it down to airdry 99% in the morning and then bun for a few more hours?

Carolyn
October 7th, 2015, 05:52 AM
Are you putting a leave in on your hair or oiling your ends before bunning? My hair can be kind of lank when I do that. Also I agree with those who said DAMP not wet. Just a little damp. Don't bun if your hair is still on the verge of wetness. I do a cinnamon bun on damp hair with no products and I get waves that look like I did a roller set. I have 1C hair.

Horrorpops
October 7th, 2015, 06:13 AM
What you've described is pretty much my approach, you've just articulated it much better than I did in my OP :)

I'm finding it a real challenge to get the amount of dampness balanced with the length of time it takes to dry - it seems that no matter how many hours I keep my bun in my hair it never dries completely until the bun is released... and then that stringiness occurs as it finishes drying while down. I know separating the strands gently with the fingers is supposed to reduce the issues that come up when you comb out waves, but when I try that it doesn't improve the look at all and just increases the tangles :(

Just had a thought - maybe I'll try making the bun on 100% dry hair, THEN spritzing lightly with water and keeping it up for a day or overnight. Perhaps that will give the moisture more chance to evaporate so I'm not taking down a still-damp bun. Something to try at least :)

Thank you for your suggestions, I really do appreciate them!

Hahaha ohh bugger. Thats the thing about hair isnt it... it always requires so much experimentation! :)

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 06:19 AM
Are you putting a leave in on your hair or oiling your ends before bunning? My hair can be kind of lank when I do that. Also I agree with those who said DAMP not wet. Just a little damp. Don't bun if your hair is still on the verge of wetness. I do a cinnamon bun on damp hair with no products and I get waves that look like I did a roller set. I have 1C hair.

Nope, no product of any kind - leave-in or oils, my hair hates them all! And yes when I say barely damp I really mean BARELY damp :)

This morning I wet my hair in the shower and skipped my usual CO wash, just went straight to my VERY diluted vinegar rinse (1/2tsp acv to 1 cup water). I'm waiting for it to dry COMPLETELY, then will spritz with a fine mister (like maybe 4 spritzes total on almost BCL hair - canopy, underneath, and each side) and bun for the day. When I take it down I'll not touch it until I'm convinced it's 100% dry, then finger-separate. We'll see what happens!

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 06:21 AM
Hahaha ohh bugger. Thats the thing about hair isnt it... it always requires so much experimentation! :)

Eternal experimentation for sure! Going to try a couple different variations and see if something sticks, haha!!

Horrorpops
October 7th, 2015, 06:24 AM
Eternal experimentation for sure! Going to try a couple different variations and see if something sticks, haha!!

awww good luck! I hope you find the perfect method for heatless curls :)

McQuarry
October 7th, 2015, 09:45 AM
I've been having similar problems since my hair's been getting longer. I can get this sort of thing going (https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xap1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/924594_853844818047130_455206237_n.jpg) with two dutch braids but that's about as good as it gets. I had success with three overnight twisty buns on 99% dry hair once in the last six months and I honestly have no idea why that one worked when nothing else did!

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 10:12 AM
I've been having similar problems since my hair's been getting longer. I can get this sort of thing going (https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xap1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/924594_853844818047130_455206237_n.jpg) with two dutch braids but that's about as good as it gets. I had success with three overnight twisty buns on 99% dry hair once in the last six months and I honestly have no idea why that one worked when nothing else did!

Oh that's beautiful McQuarry! I wish I could get braids to give me a result like that! Kudos to you :)

I'll keep trying some variations based on everyone's suggestions - I've got a LWB on and will keep it on all day, it was probably about 1-2% damp after I misted it before putting it up. Fingers crossed!

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 02:12 PM
Sooo... results of first experiment are in! I'm grading it 'meh with potential'.

The good: my hair was definitely dry when the bun came out, and I got lots of root volume. The most encouraging thing is that the length isn't stringy, which was my original issue - yay!!!

The bad: there's really no wave to speak of, just a couple bumps in weird places. When I put it up I tried to wrap the ends around my fingers like a roller and tuck them in before securing, and that did give them some sort of texture (they're normally pin-straight) but there's no definition to the curl. Otherwise there's just my usual lazy wrap bump below my crown and then straight (albeit poofy) sailing down to the crinkly ends. A bit funny looking. Who am I kidding - a lot funny looking!

However, since my original question was about stringiness and I seem to have avoided that, I'm encouraged :) Looks like skipping conditioner on wave day and misting very lightly is part of the puzzle - now I have to find a style that will create the shape I'm looking for.

The experimentation continues - big thanks to all of you who have chimed in with your suggestions, they've been great :D

DollyDagger
October 7th, 2015, 02:57 PM
meh with potential...what's that work out to roughly a "c" :) ? or c-
I hope the next one will be an A+ for ya :)

Arctic
October 7th, 2015, 03:11 PM
If your hairtype really is 1a-ish, then you simply might not be able to achieve heatless waves. Also for straight hair any combing or brushing very typically pulls down all the curls, and usually people say that a styling product is a must.

And another thing that repeatedly jumped on me was, that you seem to often take the bun down before hair is dry, then wonder why the curls fall down. This is only natural; the only way you will get heatless curls with wet setting is to allow the hair to 100% dry in that shape.

And about "that shape", you'll just need to try several methods to find the ones that work for you. I know for myself most heatless wave/curl methods haven't worked for one reason or antoher, and it's been a long and slow way to try to find ones that work reliably (placement and type). For me the best methods have been crown braids ans 1-2 high cinnabuns (separatey, lol). Sock curls gave nice curls but there were few issues I still need to hone with them. Headband curls give lovely ringlets around my face but are otherwise blah. Rolled down sock bun curls were lovely when my hair was longer.

I hope you'll find some methods that work for your hair reliably very soon!!!

Christine_O
October 7th, 2015, 03:18 PM
When I had enough hair to do it, I would sometimes wash my hair in the evening and go to bed with it in six little braids, some of them starting high up on my head. This may not work for you, but in the morning I'd comb it out and have big fluffy hair for the whole day.
Couldn't hurt to try anyway.

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 03:28 PM
If your hairtype really is 1a-ish, then you simply might not be able to achieve heatless waves. Also for straight hair any combing or brushing very typically pulls down all the curls, and usually people say that a styling product is a must.

And another thing that repeatedly jumped on me was, that you seem to often take the bun down before hair is dry, then wonder why the curls fall down. This is only natural; the only way you will get heatless curls with wet setting is to allow the hair to 100% dry in that shape.

And about "that shape", you'll just need to try several methods to find the ones that work for you. I know for myself most heatless wave/curl methods haven't worked for one reason or antoher, and it's been a long and slow way to try to find ones that work reliably (placement and type). For me the best methods have been crown braids ans 1-2 high cinnabuns (separatey, lol). Sock curls gave nice curls but there were few issues I still need to hone with them. Headband curls give lovely ringlets around my face but are otherwise blah. Rolled down sock bun curls were lovely when my hair was longer.

I hope you'll find some methods that work for your hair reliably very soon!!!

I know I know, I'm asking for the moon from my straight hair, haha!!

Yes, I know any combing or brushing is going to pull curls and waves straight, but given a choice between stringy waves and straightened poof, I'll take the poof! That's why I've generally combed out waves after creating unsuccessful ones - they've been unattractively ropey and just make my hair look unwashed, and I'd rather lose the wave and have it look decent than keep it and have it look unkempt :)

As for taking the bun down still damp, that's not been purposeful - I've been trying to figure out that balance between how wet it needs to be to set and how long it needs to sit to dry. Like I said in an earlier post, when bunned my wet hair takes literally days to dry fully, and even lightly dampened can take more than 24 hours, so this is taking a lot of trial and error to get right :) So it's not that I'm wondering why the curl's falling out, it's that I'm wondering if others have had similar issues and found some success ;)

So I'll keep working at it but hey, if it can't happen for me that's okay too - I do enjoy my straight hair! :D

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 03:42 PM
When I had enough hair to do it, I would sometimes wash my hair in the evening and go to bed with it in six little braids, some of them starting high up on my head. This may not work for you, but in the morning I'd comb it out and have big fluffy hair for the whole day.
Couldn't hurt to try anyway.

Way back in high school I used to crimp my hair in braids just like that! Nowadays however, I have a 15-month-old toddler and a 10-year-old with autism, so my braiding time is significantly reduced, haha!! ;)

Clarkie
October 7th, 2015, 06:18 PM
It just takes one for me, but I have not-quite-BSL fine, thin-ish hair. I make the first loop over two fingers, not my whole hand, because otherwise there isn't enough to wrap around, if that gives you an idea of the length/volume I am dealing with. To be honest, I rarely do it overnight. I usually wash in the morning, let it mostly dry, and put it up when I get to work. By afternoon when I take it down I have pretty waves.

Maybe try two buns up on top of your head for overnight, wrapped in opposite directions.

I think I've been leaving it way too wet. It's still quite damp when I wake up. I will give your mostly dry 2 bun idea a try this wash day. Thank you for the reply. :)

Arctic
October 7th, 2015, 06:31 PM
I know I know, I'm asking for the moon from my straight hair, haha!!

Yes, I know any combing or brushing is going to pull curls and waves straight, but given a choice between stringy waves and straightened poof, I'll take the poof! That's why I've generally combed out waves after creating unsuccessful ones - they've been unattractively ropey and just make my hair look unwashed, and I'd rather lose the wave and have it look decent than keep it and have it look unkempt :)

As for taking the bun down still damp, that's not been purposeful - I've been trying to figure out that balance between how wet it needs to be to set and how long it needs to sit to dry. Like I said in an earlier post, when bunned my wet hair takes literally days to dry fully, and even lightly dampened can take more than 24 hours, so this is taking a lot of trial and error to get right :) So it's not that I'm wondering why the curl's falling out, it's that I'm wondering if others have had similar issues and found some success ;)

So I'll keep working at it but hey, if it can't happen for me that's okay too - I do enjoy my straight hair! :D

Okey, I missunderstood the taking down when still damp bit.
You know, sometimes when my hair does that, and isn't yet dry when I take my bun down, I give it a bit of fluffing and put it in a new bun. It seems to dry quickly after it's been "aired" inbetween, and will take the shape of the new bun. This doesn't seem to cause frizz on me.

school of fish
October 7th, 2015, 07:03 PM
Okey, I missunderstood the taking down when still damp bit.
You know, sometimes when my hair does that, and isn't yet dry when I take my bun down, I give it a bit of fluffing and put it in a new bun. It seems to dry quickly after it's been "aired" inbetween, and will take the shape of the new bun. This doesn't seem to cause frizz on me.

Thank you Arctic! I'll give this a try next time I take down a still-too-wet bun ;) Upside down also made a similar second bun suggestion so it sounds like a great one to add to the experiment list! :)

stachelbeere
October 8th, 2015, 01:34 AM
If I damp bun I can get some waves but it only looks good for about 30 seconds right out of the bun - as soon as it starts to dry the waves go stringy and unappealing. If I wait for it to dry completely and then gently comb it out I get a cotton candy-like frizz. But if I comb out the waves with any dampness left I just end up straightening them out again.


I totally get the cotton candy-like frizz part! there are these weird stages of drying (as in the state when the hair is going from wet to dry) - one of them is that my hair becomes puffy when it's about 7% damp (very precise percentage, haha). Then it gets straight and normal.

I tend to have the best results when I do a cinnabun, not a LWB - LWBs give me not-so-appealing bun waves. Cinnabun waves on the other hand are nice and uniform.
I bun my hair when it's already dry and that gives better results than when I damp bun - the hair just never gets 100% dry so the waves disappear after 30 seconds. When bunned dry the wave holds a bit longer but eventually the wave disappears.

Sometimes when I feel fancy I use faux flexi rods (http://community.blackhairinformation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/1450743_10150349631004957_1774787538_n-e1400766612735.jpg) that give a very tight curl but when the curl starts falling out it looks awesome.

Clarkie
October 14th, 2015, 07:22 PM
So I think the "only slightly damp" hair when bunning for waves is the magic secret for me. I did my usual CO wash, plopped my hair in a Tshirt for about an hour and then let it air dry until about 80% dry. I twisted it into a high cinnamon bun and slept in it.
I woke up to silky waves and loose curls.
Sorry no pics, I don't currently have a computer at home. I post from work when it's not busy.
Thanks to those of you who offered advice. I may try 2 buns next time to see if I get a tighter curl pattern.

school of fish
January 17th, 2016, 09:11 AM
*update*

Sooo... I'll admit I kind of gave up after my initial attempts when I originally posted about this last fall, but last night on a whim I decided to rope braid my hair for sleep just to see what I woke up to. Classic english or french braids are disastrous for me due to massive braid shred and ensuing tangles, but the rope braiding shows some great potential...

I got waves! Pretty ones! Not perfection as yet but a huge step up from any braid/bun waving attempts I've made in the past :)

In addition to changing up the type of braid I also made a couple of other changes which I think were key to the success. The first thing is that I did twin ropes instead of one, which is my usual inclination - I think that helped tighten the pattern enough to have it hold better. The other thing is that I made the ropes on 100% dry hair and then misted them with water AFTER they were tied off. I kind of separated the rope strands and just lightly misted all over, so they were lightly misted inside and out but by morning there was no dampness left to pull out the wave. After finger separating the waves loosened ino a light yet even pattern, after combing they smoothed into a gently wavey flow, and even after TangleTeezing they held and looked uniform. Best of all, no stringiness - which was my original complaint in my original post!

Now I think I might be able to mess around with rope buns as a heatless curling style I can walk around in public with ;) Thanks once again to all of you who offered both suggestions and sympathy - they were both appreciated and helpful :D

And to those of you who like me have really finicky, fine, straight, cobweb-tangly, curl-resistant hair, maybe try misting AFTER setting your style - I do think that may have tipped the balance toward success for me :D