Shampoos, no difference!

[lapushka]

I was watching a Dutch consumer program called "Radar" on Dutch TV yesterday, about shampoos cointaining caffeine (for hair loss), collagen, keratin (not like the "treatments", different beast altogether), that were supposed to strengthen and help with hair. A cosmetologist doctor ruled it all out.

The collagen shampoos for instance put a nice little layer on your hair that washes out the next time. In the end it makes no difference to the inner structure of the hair. She recommended that if something went wrong with the hair, to consult a doctor to rule out one or two things. So cheap or expensive shampoos, it really doesn't matter!

Thought you guys wanted to know, especially the newbies on here! ;)

[tigress86]

Same goes for skin care too. Creams with collagen (there are super popular ones by Korean brands) can really only be good moisturizers because collagen does not absorb through skin.

[lapushka]

Personally, for me, I make a difference (for my SD) between harsher and less harsh shampoos. There is such a thing as a shampoo geared towards oily hair or dry hair (as those can contain more moisturizing properties). I buy the harshest on the market (Pantene, Herbal Essences) and call it a day. I don't spend a fortune on haircare, or body care (body butter from Aldi, a.m.a.z.i.n.g).

[cathair]

I read somewhere (I think it might have been Beauty Brains), if a cosmetic like an anti-wrinkle cream actually worked rather than just being poly-filler, it would have to be classified as a drug, not a cosmetic and you would probably need a prescription for it. That ruled out a lot of things for me ;)

I guess it's a similar idea for hair stuff.

I suppose if it feels better for one wash cycle, then you just have to decide if that is worth it to you?

When they were talking about keratin do they mean protein in general? Or when it is used for a straightening effect?

[luxurioushair]

Some shampoos are creamy and contain oils, and others are just thin and soapy, so I do think there is a difference at the end of the day.

[Carolyn]

I believe that my conditioner choice is much more important than my shampoo choice. I find that there are some differences in types of shampoo. I like a tea tree conditioner when my scalp is extra itchy from not washing for a few days. I've tried at least 3 brands of tea tree shampoos and all worked the same. They helped with the itches and they cleaned my hair. I've tried numerous clarifying shampoos. They all removed the build up from cone usage and leave in products. Right now I have 5 purple shampoos. They all help done down my too gold blonde tones. So I would say that within various subgroups shampoos are pretty much alike.

[Nique1202]

Some shampoos are creamy and contain oils, and others are just thin and soapy, so I do think there is a difference at the end of the day.

To some degree, but when it comes to most of the fancy ingredients (biotin, keratin, collagen, etc.) the point is that they aren't going to get into the hair and repair it permanently or work miracles on your growth rate or anything. If you clarify your hair at your next wash, you'll take away all the benefit of these products because they're temporary at best. Besides, there's sometimes so little of these ingredients that they're all but useless anyway, just a drop in a huge vat so they can put it on the label and make claims about it. That's the biggest trick in the industry, for face, body, and hair products.

As for creamy with plant oils versus plain sudsy shampoo, plant oils can be really handy for people with dry scalps, and plainer suds work well for those of us with oily scalps or who are prone to SD and such. That's really the only difference that matters, finding the shampoo that works for your hair type, and that's not what lapushka was talking about in the original post. There are expensive and cheap versions of both, and the point is that you don't need to spend $50 a bottle unless you've got really rare and specific allergies or requirements, there's probably a $5 bottle that will do the same thing for your hair or face instead.

[spidermom]

I find that I can use just about any shampoo as long as it's not a soap.

[lapushka]

When they were talking about keratin do they mean protein in general? Or when it is used for a straightening effect?

No the regular keratin that's in shampoo. Not the treatment. They said that a qualified hairdresser needed to do those, but that there were home-style kits to try as well. But no, that's not what is meant for the shampoo part. ;) I thought I mentioned that in my original message as well. :)

[Anje]

I sorta always assumed this. I've been doing very well for the last few years with a watered-down sulfate shampoo, and my scalp definitely thinks it's less harsh than full-strength.

[Hairkay]

To some degree, but when it comes to most of the fancy ingredients (biotin, keratin, collagen, etc.) the point is that they aren't going to get into the hair and repair it permanently or work miracles on your growth rate or anything. If you clarify your hair at your next wash, you'll take away all the benefit of these products because they're temporary at best. Besides, there's sometimes so little of these ingredients that they're all but useless anyway, just a drop in a huge vat so they can put it on the label and make claims about it. That's the biggest trick in the industry, for face, body, and hair products.

As for creamy with plant oils versus plain sudsy shampoo, plant oils can be really handy for people with dry scalps, and plainer suds work well for those of us with oily scalps or who are prone to SD and such. That's really the only difference that matters, finding the shampoo that works for your hair type, and that's not what lapushka was talking about in the original post. There are expensive and cheap versions of both, and the point is that you don't need to spend $50 a bottle unless you've got really rare and specific allergies or requirements, there's probably a $5 bottle that will do the same thing for your hair or face instead.

If you've got allergies you won't be buying any of these things at all. I generally depend on my diet, health and decent hydration to see to the hair except for the few henna glosses to help prevent split ends and some oil.

[lapushka]

If you've got allergies you won't be buying any of these things at all. I generally depend on my diet, health and decent hydration to see to the hair except for the few henna glosses to help prevent split ends and some oil.

Yes, you've got a whopper of an allergy goin' on, don't you Hairkay? :flower:

[cathair]

No the regular keratin that's in shampoo. Not the treatment. They said that a qualified hairdresser needed to do those, but that there were home-style kits to try as well. But no, that's not what is meant for the shampoo part. ;) I thought I mentioned that in my original message as well. :)

You did mention it in your OP sorry. I having trouble wording, I guess what I mean is are they saying protein in shampoo is pointless? I'm not sure what keratin does that's different from any other protein in a shampoo? Sorry in advance if I am being ignorant. If it doesn't do anything, do other proteins not do anything?

But then you would be more likely normally to get them in conditioners wouldn't you? :ponder: don't mind me, I think I am having one of those moments.

[Nadine <3]

Yeah, I've used enough shampoos to realize that for the most part they all do the same thing. I like mine to have sulfates, and I like the one I'm using currently because it has cones in it so it helps my frizzy floof, and it has tea tree and peppermint so it tingles. I use a suave or VO5 every once in awhile to strip out all the cones, but really these days I go by "oh this smells nice" and "it's on sale"

I put much more thought into the conditioner I use.

[lapushka]

You did mention it in your OP sorry. I having trouble wording, I guess what I mean is are they saying protein in shampoo is pointless? I'm not sure what keratin does that's different from any other protein in a shampoo? Sorry in advance if I am being ignorant. If it doesn't do anything, do other proteins not do anything?

But then you would be more likely normally to get them in conditioners wouldn't you? :ponder: don't mind me, I think I am having one of those moments.

They didn't go into it in depth, just that it is a temporary thing, not something that will "fix" the problems in hair permanently. If you get what I mean? And that with "real" issues, you should go see a doctor, not rely on products.

[lapushka]

I put much more thought into the conditioner I use.

Yep, me too. First I look at the price, then the ingredients. :lol: But my Holy Grail is still the HE Hello Hydration, and I stock up only when it's on sale. I don't buy expensive products for my conditioning either!

[*ReiKa*]

I don't understand why anyone in the first place would look at shampoos for nourishing/conditioning/strenghtening/repairing ingredients.
It's not shampoos' job to do any of that, shampoos wash your hair, full stop.

[lapushka]

I don't understand why anyone in the first place would look at shampoos for nourishing/conditioning/strenghtening/repairing ingredients.
It's not shampoos' job to do any of that, shampoos wash your hair, full stop.

True, but how's that saying again? A fool born every minute? :p

[vpatt]

I sorta always assumed this. I've been doing very well for the last few years with a watered-down sulfate shampoo, and my scalp definitely thinks it's less harsh than full-strength.

I read to dilute by adding 1/4 teaspoon of shampoo to a quart of water......does that work, it sounds so thin. And how many times would you need to lather and rinse? How many washes would that be good for? Sorry to sound so clueless.

[Nique1202]

I don't understand why anyone in the first place would look at shampoos for nourishing/conditioning/strenghtening/repairing ingredients.
It's not shampoos' job to do any of that, shampoos wash your hair, full stop.

Well, my regular shampoo is the Herbal Essences Long-Term Relationship because it's not on the hair long so it has just a tiny bit of protein left behind after it's done, enough to significantly improve my hair (I saw a 90% reduction in split ends) but not so much that I have to clarify every other wash like I would with any protein conditioner. I could also see the potential use for caffeine and mild antifungal stuff like tea tree oil (since you usually massage shampoo into the scalp to remove grease, depositing the stuff where you need it most) if they're in high enough concentrations, which they usually aren't but the HOPE is there.

So, I can see why you might want your shampoo to have fancy ingredients, but it's still a bad idea to put too much faith in them, especially if you're paying more for it. HE happens to be one of the cheapest and most sulfatey (which I need) shampoos in my area because it goes on sale often. The protein benefits are literally just a bonus.

[BranwenWolf]

I need shampoo with enough soapy stuff in it to get the dirt and grease out of my hair from daily barn chores, but I agree that the conditioner is more important. My hair loves volumes of cheap conditioner. Always has. I have been oiling my ends lately because my hair thinks it belongs on a brussels griffon dog instead of my head...

[MsPharaohMoan]

I don't understand why anyone in the first place would look at shampoos for nourishing/conditioning/strenghtening/repairing ingredients.
It's not shampoos' job to do any of that, shampoos wash your hair, full stop.

I agree with this fully, which is why I wonder why silicones in shampoo? Doesn't it just coat the scalp + roots? Seems like this would = flaking/greasiness... Anyone care to educate?

[Anje]

I read to dilute by adding 1/4 teaspoon of shampoo to a quart of water......does that work, it sounds so thin. And how many times would you need to lather and rinse? How many washes would that be good for? Sorry to sound so clueless.

I don't dilute mine down nearly that much. Usually, I throw a squirt of shampoo into a used-up conditioner bottle (since I have way more of those!) and fill it most of the way with water. I don't know what that comes out to, maybe 20:1 or 40:1 dilution? Then I just aim at my scalp and dump some on my head. If I get any lather, I count it as good enough; if I don't get lather, I put a bit more on (though my scalp might be happier if I didn't). To me, lather indicates that all the scalp oils have been dissolved and now there's enough left over shampoo to foam.

Officially, I feel compelled to advise people to not keep this sort of thing sticking around too long because diluting the preservatives out that much will likely render them ineffective while simultaneously increasing the water activity of the product. Unofficially, I keep the same bottle of diluted shampoo sitting in my shower for weeks and it's never gone icky on me yet. And yes, it lasts for weeks and weeks with me washing my hair roughly every 3 days. :lol:

[vpatt]

Thanks, Anje. That is very helpful....I'm going to try it in just a few minutes. I always keep an eye on anything like that that I have added water to just in case.

[Carolyn]

I read to dilute by adding 1/4 teaspoon of shampoo to a quart of water......does that work, it sounds so thin. And how many times would you need to lather and rinse? How many washes would that be good for? Sorry to sound so clueless.That would never work for me. I used to dilute about 1T of shampoo with 1/4C water (1/4C = 3T). I quit doing that mostly due to laziness. Personally I would rather use up my shampoos and be able to buy more. An 8 ounce bottle of shampoo can last me forever. I don't think 1/4t shampoo in 1 qt of water would clean anything. To me that would be WO.

[lapushka]

That would never work for me. I used to dilute about 1T of shampoo with 1/4C water (1/4C = 3T). I quit doing that mostly due to laziness. Personally I would rather use up my shampoos and be able to buy more. An 8 ounce bottle of shampoo can last me forever. I don't think 1/4t shampoo in 1 qt of water would clean anything. To me that would be WO.

Especially if you have scalp issues, diluting is *not* a good idea! But everyone else, just needs to do what works for them. I personally wouldn't go beyond a 50% dilution, but that's just me.

[vpatt]

Ok, I had tried diluting in the summer and it didn't clean my scalp.
BUT....just now I tried it again per Anje's instruction and it worked!! I added a good squirt of shampoo to an empty shampoo bottle, filled to an inch below the top with water and shook it up. I had to lather and rinse twice and followed with my cold water vinegar rinse. My hair is almost dry and it feels great. I really would not have thought it possible. I will see if my hair stays clean for a longer or shorter time. I'm hoping I will be able to stretch washes with this method. I know from just my short time here at LHC that different things work for different people and I'll try this see how it works for a week or two. I don't have the patience to try something for months.

You know I just remembered that when I tried this before I was using Dr. Bronner's.....so maybe that was why it didn't work.

If this works long term then due to my recent shampoo buying binge I probably have enough shampoo to last for a very long time.

[*ReiKa*]

I agree with this fully, which is why I wonder why silicones in shampoo? Doesn't it just coat the scalp + roots? Seems like this would = flaking/greasiness... Anyone care to educate?

Silicones in shampoos is one of the most stupid things ever, in my opinion. You don't want silicones in your scalp, you don't absolutely need them, and also, how are you supposed to thoroughly get your scalp clean if in the meantime you're loading it with silicones?
They're added only for slip purpose.

[lapushka]

Silicones in shampoos is one of the most stupid things ever, in my opinion. You don't want silicones in your scalp, you don't absolutely need them, and also, how are you supposed to thoroughly get your scalp clean if in the meantime you're loading it with silicones?
They're added only for slip purpose.

I basically try and avoid them and most shampoos I have are without silicones, but some shampoos I own do still have them, and I plan on using them up. Too much silicone in shampoo and you basically don't need conditioner especially at shorter lengths. :shrug: So it's a bit of YMMV.

[spidermom]

I only dilute the amount of shampoo that I'm going to use for washing my hair one time. I don't measure at all, just squirt some shampoo into my bottle, then fill it maybe 2/3 full of warm water, shake, and apply. If my hair is oily enough that I get no suds at all, I repeat. I think my bottle only holds 8 ounces of water total.

[renia22]

Silicones in shampoos is one of the most stupid things ever, in my opinion. You don't want silicones in your scalp, you don't absolutely need them, and also, how are you supposed to thoroughly get your scalp clean if in the meantime you're loading it with silicones?
They're added only for slip purpose.

I have a few shampoos at the moment that contain them. With hair that tends to frizz, sometimes conditioners just aren't enough, I need some help from shampoo, too. Silicones have a bad reputation, but really, I don't see how they are all that much different in purpose than polyquats. Those who avoid silicones in shampoos should check their labels, chances are, unless you are using a plain clarifying shampoo at every wash, your shampoo might contain polyquats, which also help condition and smooth frizz and are prone to build up. It comes down to preference and how you like you hair to feel. I don't use a silicone shampoo at every wash, but I do like the feel of having my hair be smooth from root to tip, and there seems to be less shedding due to mechanical damage in the shower when I use them. I rotate with a few shampoos that are silicone free (but contain polyquats), and occasionally I use a clarifying shampoo that doesn't contain either. Seems to be working okay. I do tend to choose lighter formulas for fine hair & not the super rich ones.

[vpatt]

I have been lazy about checking labels so I don't know what is in most of my shampoos. And I find all those big words and chemical names very confusing. Do we have a list somewhere of cone free shampoos by brand?

[Crystawni]

I have a feeling cones in shampoos are handy for those who scalp wash, and condition the length and ends, and like the slip of cones all over. I don't use cones, but know my scalp is prone to frizziness and is harder to get through after washing where my conditioner doesn't go. As for shampoo, I only use a squirt, or whatever I need when washing, so the dilution happens under the shower head. :p