How to know if need a protein treatment?

[Sallyanna]

Heya,
Bit nervous to make my first topic in here. But yeah, super unhappy with my hair at the moment. It's so...fluffy?
Two+ months of weekly oiling hasn't really improved it (other than making it soft). Had a trim and well it got rid of alot of split ends (and an inch and half of hair :( ). Have been using henna/amla/indigo since April. It's a nice colour but not sure if I want to keep doing it..
Have also tried ACV rinse (twice. Two weeks apart), didn't really do anything. Not sure I want to try it again, that smell is awful (even if its only there for a little bit)

I was thinking about trying a protein treatment, but have read so many stories of it making hair dry and crunchy.

So tell me your protein treatment success stories (and maybe when you think it's needed)?

[gthlvrmx]

Why have you been doing all these things to your hair? Not that it's bad, I am just asking to get an understanding of how your hair is. How does your hair feel? Why do you want to do any treatments on your hair?
If your hair has been bleached, it might benefit from protein treatments. You will have to find out for yourself if your hair is OK with protein treatments because some people's hair does not react well with it and the treatment makes the hair feel brittle, dry, like hay and very stiff. If any of your products that you use already had protein in it and your hair has been fine, then maybe your hair is ok with protein.
Hair is made up of keratin (and that's a protein, am I correct?) and if you add more protein that something is already made of protein, it can make it feel stiff...at least what I read someone else say about it before on here.

If your hair is mushy and extremely stretchy like gum then your hair needs a protein treatment.

[Pearly~91]

I second gthlvrmx. More info is needed.
What do you mean by "fluffy"? Is your hair wavy and poofing out? Or do you mean there's frizz? & Etc.
Also, oil making hair soft is a good thing right? The most common uses for oil are moisturizing your hair, helping lock in moisture that's already in the strand, and adding slip to hair so it's easier to detangle. These benefits vary depending on the oil used. What oil are you using & why?

As far as protein treatments go, immediately following a protein treatment with a moisture treatment prevents dry crunchy hair for me. I usually try a protein treatment if my hair is stretchy or if there has been a lot of unusual breakage.

There used to be some really great articles about this stuff, but I can't find them right now.

[DollyDagger]

I mistakenly thought my hair could use a protein treatment and tried one that I've heard good things about such as it was adequately moisturizing as well. (curl junkie repair me) Both times I tried it my ends felt dryer and crunchier afterwards. I guess my hair just didnt need it so now Ive been concentrating on moisturizing treatments.
You can find some good info here http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html
You could give one a try ...theres even a recipe for a diy one that lots of people use and see how it works for you :)

I would probably try a moisturizing treatment in your case because I think alma can be drying...especially if youre doing it too often.

[Sallyanna]

@DollyDagger: Thank you for the link (and you have an awesome icon photo :) ) I think I am doing lots of moisturising treatments. Olive&Coconut oil lathered in hair once a week. Plus a little argan oil every day. I didn't know amla was drying. But it's mixed in with the henna/indigo and maybe used once everything three - four weeks (and cause I'm allergic only for two hours on hair max)
Did it improve your curls when you did the protein treatment? Totally would suck if it made hair crunchy and didn't help curls.

@gthlvrmx & @Pearly~91:
Thank you posting.
Um when I mean fluffy both of those things. And I dunno, kind of chunky looking if I don't brush it.
I use olive oil & Coconut for long treatments and argan for everyday use. And I love how soft it's made my hair. But the overall look of hair isn't improving.

I used to be blonde and then for a number of years used a lemon left in to keep the lightness. And then chemical dyes to keep the colours. And then chemical dyes to go bright red. And then dark. Took a year off from colouring at all and just started in april with the henna/amla/indigo mix in the hopes it's gentler. (i have a problem and can't leave my hair alone. send help)

Photos help?
Before colouring:
So much gloss :) think it's just the lighting that the colour is like that
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/voievoda/IMG_3826_zpsafy3yp4m.jpeg

Now:
Normal vs straightened
(Um I am trying to straighten less. It's hard)
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/voievoda/IMG_3812_zpswegfelnv.jpeg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll126/voievoda/IMG_3833_zpslhuemqrz.jpeg
So lifeless and ...fluffy ;;

[turtlelover]

I like the non-straightened much, much better, but that is just me! :-) Lovely hair!

[AutobotsAttack]

As far as protein I would suggest maybe finding a light product that contains hydrolyzed protein in it. I can't really pull any products off the top of my head right now, but I think you can just type in hydrolyzed protein products as just search for products you like. Hydrolyzed protein does a good job of penetrating into the shaft to help strengthen it up.

[queenbee1]

Try using Finesse Revitality Hydrate and Recover conditioner. I use it once a month, after I've straightened my hair (i do that once a month too). When i started using the conditioner i used it once a week, which was really great at first but after using it 3 times in a month i got protein overload. So now it's only once a month and my hair always feels so happy. :) :) :) You straighten your hair too so you probably need protein, though should really try this product, it saved my hair :)

[lapushka]

I think you might be experimenting a little too much in too little time. It's best to try one thing, then leave it out for another and not pile one thing on top of another too fast.

You could try protein, but in my experience, I only really needed it on bleached, damaged hair. For the rest I can stand a little protein in my conditioners, but not too too much. I'm a little sensitive to it, now that my hair is all virgin.

I don't think anyone with virgin hair needs special protein masks at all. Just keep your protein conditioners separate from your moisturizing ones and try and switch it up some.

Right now I am going through a conditioner (Syoss) that has keratin in it. It's not going too bad, I have to say.

[Arctic]

What do you use for washing and conditioning? I specifically wanted to know, if you actually moisturize your hair with something, you mention oils but they aren't really moisturizing per se. Oils can be very good for hair and can help with the keeping hairs moisturized, nourished and supple, but they don't contain any water or water based ingredients (nor humectants), which is needed to actually put moisture inside your hair.

The photos look great, I can't see any problems in either of them; your hair looks lovely! If those are your natural waves in the first photos, then lucky you, people spend hours weekly with their curling irons to get than look ;) It's not poofy at all!

Since you aparently have some lightening, colouring and straightening done to your hair, it is likely there might be some damage there, which makes you a good candidate for protein products. On the other hand people with henna often say their hair doesn't react well to protein, apparently henna itself acts like a protein on hair.

You could first look into the products you already have to see if there are proteins in there. It's highly likely, as they are in almost everywhere these days. So it's likely you already are getting proteins from your products. If there isn't proteins, you could try a weaker protein treatment (like a normal conditioner that has proteins, not an actual heavy duty treatment) at first, and follow it with a moisturizing treatment. This will prevent the crunchy, hard feeling - although in case your hair does not like proteins it might still feel weird afterwards. If your hair likes and needs proteins, this would make it feel better/good. In any case, with simple experimenting like this you can learn how your hair likes protein and moisture; these are very individual things and you will ultimately need to find out yourself (keeping a hair journal is helpful, as is experimenting with only one thing at the time).

[Pearly~91]

Sallyanna, thanks for the extra info and pics! I love your natural texture, by the way, but I can understand that you prefer it the other way. It sounds like you may just have wavy hair, and if you brush wavy hair it can be frizzy and poofy. My hair does this. Brushing disturbs the wave pattern and generally after brushing my hair looks more straight, but I have tons of flyaways and some frizz and bushiness.

I agree with what others have said here. The oils you are using may not be moisturizing you hair so much as they are coating it, which is an important step in the moisturizing process, but if you aren't getting needed moisture into the strand (aka water) they may not be moisturizing. In my experience, olive and coconut oil help protect the hair if you use them before you wash and argon oil really just coats the hair and adds slip and shine, kinda like a conventional shine serum type product, but oil treatments aren't really the same as moisture treatments. The clumping you're experiencing could be from too much oil, imo. Some people don't like oils in their hair at all, or their hair reacts to different oils badly. For me, a good moisturizer has humectants and oils help hold the moisture in the strand.

If you just want to try a protein treatment, I think you should start with one that is not super heavy on the protein. Something that has more protein is more likely to leave you with crunchy hair if your hair reacts badly.

[DollyDagger]

In addition to all the great advice and tips so far I wanted to add that when I was overdoing it with oils my hair started getting tangly and lost some alot of bounce. Clarifying really helped fix that..and afterwards being a little less heavy handed with oils made sure it didnt happen again.

[sarahthegemini]

Well I would suggest leaving your hair for a little while, just wash it how you normally would and don't do any more experiments. See how your hair is in a few weeks. Then start making changes, one at a time though otherwise you won't know what works and what doesn't. As for protein treatments, it's up to you if you want to give it a go, but wait til you see how your hair is behaving when it's 'normal' I.e. When you're not doing too much to it. Personally, my hair loves protein. I use a fairly protein heavy conditioner (Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume if anyone's wooo) as a leave-in after every wash, and my hair isn't damaged.

[carrie30]

I think your hair looks in great condition , and is not lacking anything on appearance alone. I don't it needs protein as it doesn't look damaged at all. Maybe you just need a finishing product such as a light oil once it's dry

[sparrowswing]

Oils don't moisturize. They condition, adding lipids that help your retain moisture. It's a subtle difference, but a lot of people think that just adding oil will moisturize your hair, and it won't. It can't.

Henna is protein. The extra strand thickness you get from henna treatments, that extra bulk that everyone loves, is the henna protein filling your hair. If your hair has changed in texture since starting henna, that's why. The "fluffy" feeling you're talking about sounds a lot to me like the early stages of protein overload.

How to Tell if Your Hair Needs Protein or Moisture (http://kinkycurlycoilyme.com/are-your-moisture-and-protein-levels-balanced)

Protein balances with moisture. If your hair was already properly balanced, but you've increased the protein in your routine without adding moisture as well, you're likely in need of moisture rather than protein. If the test I've just linked agress, maybe try a gloss instead of a full henna/amla/indigo treatment, mixing in something very moisture heavy?

Also, adding ACV will only flatten the cuticles to prevent more moisture from coming in. ACV is used at the end of your routine to keep what you've just put into it in, so if you're adding too much protein, you're locking it in and keeping out the moisture that would help balance it. If your routine is messing with the balance, the ACV can hinder the rebalancing that your hair needs. ETA: ACV rinses shouldn't smell that awful unless you have an extremely sensitive sense of smell or you're mixing it too strong. I've found that you don't really need more than a tablespoon in 2 cups of water.

[gthlvrmx]

Oils don't moisturize. They condition, adding lipids that help your retain moisture. It's a subtle difference, but a lot of people think that just adding oil will moisturize your hair, and it won't. It can't.

Henna is protein. The extra strand thickness you get from henna treatments, that extra bulk that everyone loves, is the henna protein filling your hair. If your hair has changed in texture since starting henna, that's why. The "fluffy" feeling you're talking about sounds a lot to me like the early stages of protein overload.

How to Tell if Your Hair Needs Protein or Moisture (http://kinkycurlycoilyme.com/are-your-moisture-and-protein-levels-balanced)

Protein balances with moisture. If your hair was already properly balanced, but you've increased the protein in your routine without adding moisture as well, you're likely in need of moisture rather than protein. If the test I've just linked agress, maybe try a gloss instead of a full henna/amla/indigo treatment, mixing in something very moisture heavy?

Also, adding ACV will only flatten the cuticles to prevent more moisture from coming in. ACV is used at the end of your routine to keep what you've just put into it in, so if you're adding too much protein, you're locking it in and keeping out the moisture that would help balance it. If your routine is messing with the balance, the ACV can hinder the rebalancing that your hair needs. ETA: ACV rinses shouldn't smell that awful unless you have an extremely sensitive sense of smell or you're mixing it too strong. I've found that you don't really need more than a tablespoon in 2 cups of water.

I think I read online that henna is not a protein, but it acts like one. The lawsone binds with the keratin in your hair. Yes, I agree that oils don't usually add extra moisture to your hair. They can help retain moisture which is why I oil my hair when it's damp or wet.

Sallyanna, your hair looks alright in the photos you have posted here. I guess I can see what you mean by "fluffy" on one part, but I see some curl in there too so maybe your hair is a bit more wavy/curly than you thought? How has the weather been in your area recently? Sometimes humidity causes your hair to behave differently. I am thinking the heat styling is what is causing the fluffiness, it might be damage. I think, from my vague memory, my hair became fluffier looking the more damaged it got from different kinds of damage.

[Sallyanna]

Omigosh thank you all so much for the replies and advice <3.

@turtlelover - Thankyou!
@AutobotsAttack - I keep coming up with whey protein powders lol. Thank you, maybe I'll ask at the hairwarehouse for an product with it in.
@queenbee1 - I haven't heard of it..hopefully it's available here :) Thank you! I have gotten it down to once a week.
@lapushka - You may be right. I think I am impatient for results hehe. I will try to use less experimenting
@Arctic - I use New Directions Vitanourish Paraben & Sulfate Free Shampoo http://shop.newdirections.com.au/epages/newdirections.sf/en_AU/?LastViewObjectID=36709&ViewAction=View&ChangeAction=&Quantity=1&ChangeObjectID=41724&x=38&y=14 and Keune's Design Repair Treatment as a conditioner (I know it's not a conditioner, but hairdresser told me to use it) http://www.keune.com/anz/Product-Finder/Product-Information?prodid=825&rtid=1882&tagids=550#.Vg3Z8LSqpHw
I was kinda thinking of using gelatine for protein treatment, kinda hoping it is a gentle option. But now maybe not...maybe it's moisture, judging from all responses here
@Pearly~91: Thank you <3 I think from what I am getting is I need moisture. Although I had the clumping before the oil and I was hoping it would help. Maybe its the treatment I use in place of conditioner.
@DollyDagger: What is clarifying? I've heard it alot on here, but not really sure. (Along with hard water. Is this todo with the tap or something. Sorry totally off topic, but I remembered when you mentioned it)
@sarahthegemini: Thank you, will try to experiment less for a little while. Maybe
@carrie30: Thank you :)
@sparrowswing: I used two teaspoons to two cups of water. I wanted it to be gentle. Kinda sounds um wow, so I'm locking moisture out in what I'm doing..
@gthlvrmx: I live in Sydney, near a river so it's pretty humid most of the time. Especially now that summer is on the way. I think I have damaged my hair...is it weird to feel sorry for your hair? Cause I feel like I should apologise to mine. Thank you :)

[gthlvrmx]

Omigosh thank you all so much for the replies and advice <3.

@turtlelover - Thankyou!
@AutobotsAttack - I keep coming up with whey protein powders lol. Thank you, maybe I'll ask at the hairwarehouse for an product with it in.
@queenbee1 - I haven't heard of it..hopefully it's available here :) Thank you! I have gotten it down to once a week.
@lapushka - You may be right. I think I am impatient for results hehe. I will try to use less experimenting
@Arctic - I use New Directions Vitanourish Paraben & Sulfate Free Shampoo http://shop.newdirections.com.au/epages/newdirections.sf/en_AU/?LastViewObjectID=36709&ViewAction=View&ChangeAction=&Quantity=1&ChangeObjectID=41724&x=38&y=14 and Keune's Design Repair Treatment as a conditioner (I know it's not a conditioner, but hairdresser told me to use it) http://www.keune.com/anz/Product-Finder/Product-Information?prodid=825&rtid=1882&tagids=550#.Vg3Z8LSqpHw
I was kinda thinking of using gelatine for protein treatment, kinda hoping it is a gentle option. But now maybe not...maybe it's moisture, judging from all responses here
@Pearly~91: Thank you <3 I think from what I am getting is I need moisture. Although I had the clumping before the oil and I was hoping it would help. Maybe its the treatment I use in place of conditioner.
@DollyDagger: What is clarifying? I've heard it alot on here, but not really sure. (Along with hard water. Is this todo with the tap or something. Sorry totally off topic, but I remembered when you mentioned it)
@sarahthegemini: Thank you, will try to experiment less for a little while. Maybe
@carrie30: Thank you :)
@sparrowswing: I used two teaspoons to two cups of water. I wanted it to be gentle. Kinda sounds um wow, so I'm locking moisture out in what I'm doing..
@gthlvrmx: I live in Sydney, near a river so it's pretty humid most of the time. Especially now that summer is on the way. I think I have damaged my hair...is it weird to feel sorry for your hair? Cause I feel like I should apologise to mine. Thank you :)

No it's not weird, apologize if you want or not. If you want to try a smaller amount of protein without doing a major protein deep treatment, you can try the Suave Naturals Coconut conditioner or the Mane N Tail Original Conditioner. I read some people do gelatin treatments for adding protein into their hair, maybe you could look into that too.

[sarahthegemini]

I think your hair looks in great condition , and is not lacking anything on appearance alone. I don't it needs protein as it doesn't look damaged at all. Maybe you just need a finishing product such as a light oil once it's dry

Protein isn't just for damaged hair. Mine isn't damaged and thrives on protein.

[Sallyanna]

Thanks guys :)
Gonna do a small protein treatment today.
Will let you know how it goes.

[DollyDagger]

Thanks guys :)
Gonna do a small protein treatment today.
Will let you know how it goes.

okay that sounds good sallyanna. Itll be interesting to know if it fixes the problem.

You were asking about clarifying. Basically sometimes hair gets build up from products/oils and clarifying it with shampoos that remove these buildups can help. There are shampoos especially for this purpose...like Neutrogena (i cant remember name but I use it..lol ) and many others. You could also use a strong/harsh shampoo with alot of SLS ..I think people do that as well. Afterwards its a good idea to do a moisture treatment because of course the harsher ingredients can be drying.


Quoting meteor from another thread- our wonderful resident hair whisperer. Hope she doesnt mind :flower:
For clarifying, if you already have some SLS/SLES-based shampoo with a short list of ingredients at home (and without silicones, and, ideally, with minimal botanical extracts, oils, polyquats and other conditioning ingredients), then it should work well.
If not, I'd get any "purifying", "deep cleansing", "weekly clarifying" shampoo. Also shampoos with "volumizing" formulas or shampoos marketed "for fine hair" are often clarifying.
A couple clarifying shampoo examples I liked: "Joico K-Pak Clarifying" and "Pantene Damage Detox" - they are both clarifying (removing product build-up) and chelating (removing mineral build-up).