No damage but still breakage?

[lapushka]

I have zero damage. No white dots. No split ends. Still I broke off 5/6 tiny bits of hair last Thursday while detangling my hair (decided to do it early). It wasn't even that knotty, but still...

I don't know why this is happening. It's been happening for a few weeks now.

My routine is WCC and I normally always use 2 silicone conditioners, but I have been using up my stash and the last couple of washes I've been using a silicone-free conditioner as my first C. Maybe it's that.

This Sunday, I'll be washing with 2 silicone conditioners (Syoss/Herbal Essences) and I'll keep an eye on it, and report back next week!

Do you guys have ideas, on why this is happening.

I do diffuse my hair, on warm, but have seen no damage from that. Still I have been adapting my routine the last couple of weeks, so the length doesn't get too much warmth, less than before.

We'll just have to see...

[cat11]

Sometimes too much cones (I see you use two in a row) can make hair get brittle and break off like that.

Maybe you could benefit from doing a deep clarification without any conditioner just this once? And then just use leave in to moisturize it again until you can wash it a second time to see if it was fixed (just washing your hair would probably make it dry too at first, so it might be hard to tell.) Or if you didn't wanna leave the conditioner out completely I could see just doing a regular non cone conditioner, but nothing that could possibly coat the hair like oil or cones..

The changing weather could be affecting it too. But that is an alarming amount of cones in my opinion, especially combined with mineral oil.

When my hair gets like that, like it starts breaking easier, I either need to

1.) do a good wash with a moisturizing cowash instead of my moisturizing shampoo and then follow up with a deep condition (lol but always the moisture...)
2.) do a good clarification with my suave clarifying nasty sls shampoo to get rid of whatever stuff I put too much of in my hair and then follow with a deep condition
3.) do a good clarification with my regular moisturizing shampoo and then follow up with a protein treatment conditioning.

Usually it's not hard to fgure out which one I need,
I need #1 if I haven't been conditioning a lot, the weather is dry, and I've been heavy on shampoo.
I need #2 if I did a bigger conditioning last time or recently, or left the conditioner on for longer than usual, used too much of a new oil, ect..
I need #3 if it seems like I'm balancing the others fairly well and I haven't done it in a while (I usually do one about every 2 months)

So I would evaluate what you've been doing the last couple washes to figure out what went wrong :)

[MINAKO]

You detangle once a week as far as i remember. 5/6 hairs are nothing! What do you expect, lol.
I probably break 2/3 several times a week and don't consider that breakage really. Sometimes it just tangles and snaps off at the bending point, c'est la vie! I don't seem to get any slipts and the hemline looks alright, not perfect but full enough. I don't think there is a perfect enough technique to absolutely break zero hair, regardless of how healthy it is.

ETA: i don't think cones would have anything to do with that. In any case i tried to reduce cones my hair got tanglier and rougher to the touch, thus harder to detangle.

[lapushka]

Sometimes too much cones (I see you use two in a row) can make hair get brittle and break off like that.

It's just that I've *always* done this, for years, and never had this happen. So that's a mystery in and of itself. :hmm:

I just clarified not too long ago. But maybe I need to do it more often!


You detangle once a week as far as i remember. 5/6 hairs are nothing! What do you expect, lol.

True, it's just... I haven't had this happen - ever. Not since I had damage and white dots. So, it's a little odd. Maybe it's the length and the knottier texture my hair has been having lately, mechanical manipulation... Maybe that's just it!

[gthlvrmx]

Maybe it's previous damage that never got cut out. Also, I read someone's comment before that with really long hair, expect some sort of damage. Expect it even if you took really great care of your hair. The hairs at longer lengths can be 5+ years old and have been through more than the new growth. Maybe it's too much change for your hair to handle with trying to use up your stash. The mineral oil shouldn't be causing problems, it easily washes out with shampoo or conditioner. If anything, if you use it on damp hair, it should help retain more moisture.

[cat11]

It's just that I've *always* done this, for years, and never had this happen. So that's a mystery in and of itself.

I didn't mean you should leave off cones forever just that maybe you need a little break for one wash or two... I know cones have people they work well for (meaning I'm not encouraging a break up, hehe) :)

Minako is right about it not being much breakage though... it's really not. You can't save every hair, although I wish I could. That being said, usually we notice when we get more than usual.. I know I notice when my hair suddenly seems easier to break. I wouldn't completely disregard it either, there might be something to be done.

[lapushka]

True, you guys. Maybe I just need to suck it up. ;)

[DreamSheep]

It doesn't seem like much but two theories...

1) Maybe they were slightly damaged / had a white dot, just not perceptible or you hadn't seen them
2) You say you have fine hair - I would suspect superfine hair gets finer as it gets longer (cuticle layers get rubbed off, and hairshaft bits that have been on your head for longer may be more weathered, and thus it may take less mechanical force for them to just break off)

I also find little bits of hair after brushing sometimes (though my hair does hoard a lot of splits and small dots so I'm not surprised in my case). That said, I suspect the bits falling off are negligible, and the growth you obtain overall will outdo it :)

[lapushka]

1) Maybe they were slightly damaged / had a white dot, just not perceptible or you hadn't seen them

Good thinking, and could be a possibility!


2) You say you have fine hair - I would suspect superfine hair gets finer as it gets longer (cuticle layers get rubbed off, and hairshaft bits that have been on your head for longer may be more weathered, and thus it may take less mechanical force for them to just break off)

Yep, maybe it's the curse of F hair! Darn. :(


I also find little bits of hair after brushing sometimes (though my hair does hoard a lot of splits and small dots so I'm not surprised in my case). That said, I suspect the bits falling off are negligible, and the growth you obtain overall will outdo it :)

Yeah, have to keep my chin up and keep thinking positively. It's the only "glitch" I have had so far on my "healthy" hair growing (no dye, no heat (well just a blow dryer), no bleach, no henna) - all around good care. Well, maybe I could have gone without the blowdrying but... no, my hair takes ages to dry and it's just not possible another way. So if that's all I have to sacrifice, well then so be it. Maybe it's the blowdrying. I am diffusing differently now, so the lengths don't get exposed to the warmth so much, maybe that will help!

[spidermom]

Even under the best conditions, the longer ends grow, the more fragile they become. It sounds like your hair is in awesome condition.

[Nadine <3]

I would clarify it with a good shampoo and do a nice deep treatment. You haven't had a trim in a super long time, right? It might need a little dusting. I know my hair would be breaking off and probably much more than 6 hairs if I went to long without a good trim.

[lapushka]

True about the trim, Nadine. It's been almost 2 years. It could do with a little trim, but I'll reserve that for the end of the year, so I can still finish the no trimming 2015 challenge and go for 2016.

And it *is* in good shape for the most part, spidermom. I really can't complain too much!!! You might actually have something with the regular trimming!

[ChloeDharma]

I find that the longer I leave it between trime the more breakage I get. The ends get kind of catchy though if I look at them I can't find any splits. Being fine haired is probably a factor too. My hair snaps easily even when it's in good condition, if I compare the force needed to snap my individual hairs compared to my sister who has coarse hair the difference is shocking.
If I were you I'd just keep an eye on it and see if the increase in breakage is a one off or something that continues. If it does then maybe some moisture treatments could increase elasticity.

[lapushka]

Detangled early this week, with the help of a spray detangling balm (Aldi, for kids). Quite a few knots, and no breakage. I did do the rinse-out oil method (on my ends) this weekend and it might be that. I might need a little extra TLC on my ends.

[DollyDagger]

yay lapushka..:cheer: so good to hear! :D

[lapushka]

Thanks so much, DD! Back to the rinse-out oil method. Why oh why change something that works eh? :lol:

[meteor]

Detangled early this week, with the help of a spray detangling balm (Aldi, for kids). Quite a few knots, and no breakage. I did do the rinse-out oil method (on my ends) this weekend and it might be that. I might need a little extra TLC on my ends.

Great to know the oil rinse helped so much, lapushka! :D I think especially if the conditioner is not fulfilling all detangling and protective purposes for some reason, oil rinses really, really help, by adding that needed elasticity to prevent breakage. :)

[lapushka]

Great to know the oil rinse helped so much, lapushka! :D I think especially if the conditioner is not fulfilling all detangling and protective purposes for some reason, oil rinses really, really help, by adding that needed elasticity to prevent breakage. :)

Yep, couldn't have said it any better than that! I'm continuing the method the next couple of weeks, for *sure*!

[AutobotsAttack]

Mm well I would say this is mainly mechanical breakage. I'm not gonna lie you probably just detangled your hair in such a fashion that caused some hairs to snap. You do have long hair so I wouldn't be surprised. I once stopped breakage I. A certain spot of where I detangled by simply holding my arm and hand in a different way. So maybe you could start in a different area next time? Or start on that area you noticed the breakage at and be very carful?

[Horrorpops]

I find the same thing with my hair! For some reason after cutting out my bleached hair I thought my virgin hair would be impervious to damage. But even at BSL I am getting split ends and breakage - less than I had when I heat styled and bleached - but it still happens. I agree with PPs that because your hair is fine and so long, there is a limit to how much you can protect it, because long term even washing and brushing gently can damage the cuticle right?

I don't think it would be the warm diffuser, or the silicones but thats only based on how my hair behaves. Maybe you could do some experimentation to see if you can establish any cause and effect there? I remember you saying on previous threads that cones help so much with slip and detangling, and so even if 5-6 hair breakage is the price that comes with that would you change using silicones? Sometimes the benefits outweigh the harms. :flower:

[queenbee1]

Good thinking, and could be a possibility!



Yep, maybe it's the curse of F hair! Darn. :(



Yeah, have to keep my chin up and keep thinking positively. It's the only "glitch" I have had so far on my "healthy" hair growing (no dye, no heat (well just a blow dryer), no bleach, no henna) - all around good care. Well, maybe I could have gone without the blowdrying but... no, my hair takes ages to dry and it's just not possible another way. So if that's all I have to sacrifice, well then so be it. Maybe it's the blowdrying. I am diffusing differently now, so the lengths don't get exposed to the warmth so much, maybe that will help!

Ok you have got me confused :o is henna bad for your hair? I thought it was good for conditioning and strengthening :o

[gthlvrmx]

Ok you have got me confused :o is henna bad for your hair? I thought it was good for conditioning and strengthening :o

Henna is still good for conditioning and strengthening. Some people's hair just doesn't react as well with henna as with other people, I think Lapushka had a negative experience with henna before if I remember correctly.

[lapushka]

Henna is still good for conditioning and strengthening. Some people's hair just doesn't react as well with henna as with other people, I think Lapushka had a negative experience with henna before if I remember correctly.

Yes, you're right. It dried out my hair as bad as bleach did in the past. It broke off, and was extremely dry. And this is not from just "washing it out" dry, it's the rest of the time as well. The one good thing is that after henna my roots didn't get oily for quite some time, but as soon as I'd washed once that effect disappeared; the dryness however, remained on the ends. I got very frizzy hair from it and instead of less waves, I got more but not more definition. So yes, an overall bad experience. I tried henna on 2 separate occasions, many years apart. Both terrible experiences. I am glad to be rid of it, and would *never* do it again. I am also quite protein sensitive. A little doesn't hurt, but too much and my hair responds weirdly.

[queenbee1]

Henna is still good for conditioning and strengthening. Some people's hair just doesn't react as well with henna as with other people, I think Lapushka had a negative experience with henna before if I remember correctly.

Oh now I understand, thank you :)

[queenbee1]

Yes, you're right. It dried out my hair as bad as bleach did in the past. It broke off, and was extremely dry. And this is not from just "washing it out" dry, it's the rest of the time as well. The one good thing is that after henna my roots didn't get oily for quite some time, but as soon as I'd washed once that effect disappeared; the dryness however, remained on the ends. I got very frizzy hair from it and instead of less waves, I got more but not more definition. So yes, an overall bad experience. I tried henna on 2 separate occasions, many years apart. Both terrible experiences. I am glad to be rid of it, and would *never* do it again. I am also quite protein sensitive. A little doesn't hurt, but too much and my hair responds weirdly.

Haha, thank you. It probably acts like protein in your hair and your hair must be protein sensitive or something. But hey if you have such pretty hair who cares right? :)

[lapushka]

Haha, thank you. It probably acts like protein in your hair and your hair must be protein sensitive or something. But hey if you have such pretty hair who cares right? :)

Aw thank you. It does just fine without the henna, so... I'll just let it be.

[Arctic]

For me henna itself wasn't damaging, but growing it out was: my hair broke off at the demarcation line like crazy.

[renia22]

Lapushka- what about barrettes or styling tools? Can something you've been using be contributing to the breakage?

[lapushka]

Lapushka- what about barrettes or styling tools? Can something you've been using be contributing to the breakage?

Nope, been wearing my same LWB since waist/hip length. I think it might all come down to the diffusing. We are doing it a slightly different way now, so that the length doesn't absorb the warmth as much. That and the ROO method seem to be helping.