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valkyrje
September 7th, 2015, 04:45 AM
Hello! :)
I have inherited my mother's oily scalp and it's gotten oiler throughout the years. I remember being in high school a few years ago and stressing over how my hair would look the next day before going to bed and I got tired of it and started washing my hair every day. All that trouble disappeared, but it's not very beneficial to hair, and especially now that I'm trying to grow it out. So, I've been using The Body Shop Rainforest Balance shampoo for a few months and it's done a great job. But since it's a shampoo oriented towards people with oily scalp, isn't it supposed to be harsher so it can wash out all of the sebum, and therefore making the scalp produce even more due to the excessive dryness? I think my theory is right, but please, correct me if I'm wrong. And, if it's true, shouldn't I use a gentler shampoo and make my hair get used to it and don't look like a frying pan? I hope I've explained myself well enough. :confused:

lapushka
September 7th, 2015, 04:50 AM
I have oily hair, and was able to stretch to weekly washes (only when going past BSL, the length helped). I need to use sulfates because of the oiliness and also because I have SD (seborrheic dermatitis). I find that using a shampoo geared towards oilier scalp keeps the oil out longer. But that's just me. I need to wash with harsher ingredients because of the SD (scalp needs to be squeaky clean).

Nique1202
September 7th, 2015, 04:58 AM
The Body Shop's Rainforest line is already sulfate-free, so it's pretty gentle to start with. So gentle, in fact, that my oily scalp couldn't handle it even for one wash. It couldn't cut through my sebum at all, I had to wash again half an hour later with my old shampoo. For me to stretch washes, I have to use something full of sulfates to strip all my old sebum out. Stretching washes got my hair used to producing less sebum, so that now I only wash every 4-6 days depending on how I'm doing, but it did take quite a while to get my hair used to washing less often.

The main thing to remember is that there's nothing damaging about using a stronger shampoo or washing more often as long as you're conditioning your length and your ends to make up for any loss of moisture. It's really up to you whether you want to try using something gentler, or if you want to just try going longer between washes, to train your scalp to make less sebum. And, some people just can't get their scalps to respond that way, so they have to wash daily with sulfates for their own comfort. You've got to listen to your scalp, first and foremost, because that's where healthy hair starts.

Yarrow
September 7th, 2015, 10:06 AM
I think this is one of the things where you have to look at the ingredients and compare and contrast with the ingredients of other shampoos. Just because marketing people slap "baby " and "gentle" on the shampoo bottle doesn't mean that the actual ingredients really all are. Just from glancing at the ingredients it looks ok to me, a lot of kids shampoo seem to have harsher ingredients. So I don't know what your alternative shampoo would be, so if the ingredients are gentler then sure why not try it out. But just because shampoos ate sulfate free doesn't automatically mean they are less irritant or better.

meteor
September 7th, 2015, 03:19 PM
I agree with posters above. :agree:

It's really about experimentation. What I found is that some shampoos don't leave my hair clean enough (even if called "purifying") while some others can dry my hair out (despite the "moisturizing" claim) - that just means they aren't ideal for my specific scalp and hair type. It takes some trial and error. The best shampoos are the ones that do allow you to wash relatively infrequently but also don't leave your hair stripped. Often, you can't tell that just by marketing claims, unfortunately. Sometimes, even reading ingredients lists won't be an exact predictor (since exact ratios of ingredients in formulations aren't listed, for example.)

lapushka
September 7th, 2015, 03:31 PM
Yes, I also agree with meteor. You'll have to experiment a little... And it's not gonna be pretty... I know when I got here I experimented a lot, not just with methods and shampoos but with dyes and bleach and henna unfortunately, which is why it's taken me 10 years to get to classic.

valkyrje
September 8th, 2015, 08:38 AM
Thanks for replying!
So I guess my theory wasn't really correct. I think I should stick to the shampoo that I'm currently using since it works and maybe one day I'll try experimenting a bit.
By the way, I know that washing your hair daily isn't the best thing... but, apart from stripping away all of the oils and therefore making the scalp produce even more, what other harmful consequences does it bring (I use a coney conditioner and apply some coconut oil as a leave in because I'm still growing out some bleach that really dries out my ends, so I suppose I do hydrate my hair enough)? I hate my second day hair and I can't find any hairstyles that I like for those days...

lapushka
September 8th, 2015, 08:49 AM
Do you use the conditioner on your scalp - I wouldn't do that. Conditioner on my scalp, especially with silicones makes my hair oilier faster. That's why I have a shampoo with sulfates only, without silicones.

Johannah
September 8th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Thanks for replying!
So I guess my theory wasn't really correct. I think I should stick to the shampoo that I'm currently using since it works and maybe one day I'll try experimenting a bit.
By the way, I know that washing your hair daily isn't the best thing... but, apart from stripping away all of the oils and therefore making the scalp produce even more, what other harmful consequences does it bring (I use a coney conditioner and apply some coconut oil as a leave in because I'm still growing out some bleach that really dries out my ends, so I suppose I do hydrate my hair enough)? I hate my second day hair and I can't find any hairstyles that I like for those days...

Your hair expands when wet. In the long run it can cause hygral fatigue (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/08/does-your-hair-have-hygral-fatigue.html). Coconut oil as a pre-poo treatment has some positives effects (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/02/readers-questions-moisture-issue-so-far.html).

About the shampoo: if it works for you, use it.

Nini
September 8th, 2015, 09:09 AM
Washing daily might be what works out best for you. We're all different. Putting it up might conceal the greasiness, that's how I've strectched from every second day to every third or fourth(well, and to be fair I've been a farmer working from home for a number of years;) )

I was just wondering, do you apply coconut oil every day? And does it all absorb? I find that my hair don't do well with oils at all, and many with fine hair report that their ends tend to get a bit crunchy from coconut oil. I'm sure you can read up on it if you search for it.

Good luck finding a routine that works for you.

meteor
September 8th, 2015, 09:44 AM
Thanks for replying!
So I guess my theory wasn't really correct. I think I should stick to the shampoo that I'm currently using since it works and maybe one day I'll try experimenting a bit.
By the way, I know that washing your hair daily isn't the best thing... but, apart from stripping away all of the oils and therefore making the scalp produce even more, what other harmful consequences does it bring (I use a coney conditioner and apply some coconut oil as a leave in because I'm still growing out some bleach that really dries out my ends, so I suppose I do hydrate my hair enough)? I hate my second day hair and I can't find any hairstyles that I like for those days...


Your hair expands when wet. In the long run it can cause hygral fatigue (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2012/08/does-your-hair-have-hygral-fatigue.html). Coconut oil as a pre-poo treatment has some positives effects (http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/02/readers-questions-moisture-issue-so-far.html).

About the shampoo: if it works for you, use it.

^ I certainly agree. :agree: Also, a big source of damage I should add is mechanical: from detangling, excessive wet manipulation (when hair is in its most fragile state)... If you wash daily, that's 365 cases of wet manipulation, scrubbing, detangling... per year, so switching from daily to every other day would already save a lot of manipulation - and that becomes more and more important for hair that is many years old (accumulated damage).
It certainly depends on the hair and how exactly you wash and detangle, I find I put my hair through the most thorough and lengthy detangling and manipulation during and after a wash. Being able to wash infrequently and then preserve the style for a long time results in less accumulated wear and tear, the same way as keeping a silk scarf neatly folded will keep it in much better condition than washing it daily.
That said, please don't let this deter you from washing as much as you need. Some scalps are just naturally more oily or may be prone to SD and like to be washed pretty frequently. Let your scalp and hair guide you. :flower: If you notice that shampoo dries out your length, soak your length in coconut oil (or another penetrating oil) or even conditioner before a wash and concentrate shampoo on scalp, not length. More on how to protect hair like that: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html and here: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/10/your-hair-on-chlorine.html

Also, since you are growing out bleach, I should add that bleached hair is already more porous, so it readily gains and loses water to the air around it because it is no longer protected by the tight seal of cuticle. Since it hydrates and dehydrates more easily, it is difficult to maintain good elasticity (and elasticity allows hair to resist fast weathering by styling, environment, etc), so oiling and avoiding over-washing is pretty important. Porous hair is more likely to be further damaged, because of the chips in the cuticle that allow inside more damaging ingredients and contribute to overall fragility of the structure. Science-y hair blog has an excellent demonstration of this phenomenon on hair under microscope here: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/09/porosity-in-hair.html

valkyrje
September 8th, 2015, 11:27 AM
Do you use the conditioner on your scalp - I wouldn't do that. Conditioner on my scalp, especially with silicones makes my hair oilier faster. That's why I have a shampoo with sulfates only, without silicones.

I only use conditioner on my ends and slightly extend it to my lower length. That's the same reason I stopped using silicones on my scalp too.


I was just wondering, do you apply coconut oil every day? And does it all absorb? I find that my hair don't do well with oils at all, and many with fine hair report that their ends tend to get a bit crunchy from coconut oil. I'm sure you can read up on it if you search for it.

I've been using coconut oil on my ends for about two weeks now only on recently washed hair (I'm still on vacation so I wash it every other day) and it absorbs quite well and my ends feel very soft and hydrated. I once tried applying it on dry ends and it made them greasy, but not crunchy at all.

Thanks for reminding me of the hygral fatigue, Johanna and meteor! I totally forgot about that... And the thing metor said about the excessive manipulation... that one really makes me not want to wash my hair daily.
Actually my second day hair doesn't look that bad and it would definitely get better with some dry shampoo, but I really hate the invasive greasy feeling... I'll be trying various braids and up do's these days to see if I can find one that I like and doesn't look ridiculous on me... xD

Thank you all for the helpful replies!

Anje
September 8th, 2015, 11:36 AM
For what it's worth, I'm the poster child for having a scalp that compensates for increased/harsher washing by making more sebum. I have to wash more if I use straight shampoo than if I use diluted. I have to wash more using diluted shampoo than if I CO wash. My skin can and will get dry and flakey and oily simultaneously if I dry it out too much. Heck, my scalp gets oilier in the winter when the air is dry and cold, presumably trying to compensate.

Not everyone is like that. Some people make gobs of oil or practically no oil at all, and nothing they do in the frequency or harshness of their cleansing seems to make any difference at all. Frankly, it's weird how different we all are.

My personal suggestion is to try diluting shampoo and to only wash when your hair starts to look/feel like it needs it, rather than on an established schedule. Some people will find that they start going longer and longer between washes, others won't. Some will discover that their scalp will start to bug them if they space washes out, and others will find that their scalp is happy when left alone. But it's hard to know without playing with it.

lapushka
September 8th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Thanks for reminding me of the hygral fatigue, Johanna and meteor! I totally forgot about that... And the thing metor said about the excessive manipulation... that one really makes me not want to wash my hair daily.
Actually my second day hair doesn't look that bad and it would definitely get better with some dry shampoo, but I really hate the invasive greasy feeling... I'll be trying various braids and up do's these days to see if I can find one that I like and doesn't look ridiculous on me... xD

You could do scalp washes only. I believe meteor has more info on that as well!

meteor
September 8th, 2015, 11:45 AM
^ Thanks a lot! :blossom: And oh yes, I know what you mean about the length looking great on second day... :agree: If you can't stand the feeling of oily scalp when the length is doing great, but dry shampoos aren't providing exactly what you want, you could try scalp-only washes! :)

Just dilute a teaspoon of shampoo in a lot of water in a separate squeeze bottle, bun or braid your hair, cover it in plastic shower cap or grocery bag and wash just the scalp or just the hairline in the shower or sink. It takes 3-5 min and saves so much drying and detangling time and effort! :cloud9:

- in a bun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBOVM-dHlc
- in a braid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwREj8Kadlo

meteor
September 8th, 2015, 11:47 AM
You could do scalp washes only. I believe meteor has more info on that as well!

He-he, yep, lapushka :agree:, we cross-posted! And what do you know, scalp-only washes were exactly on my mind! :lol: You know me so well! ;)

lapushka
September 8th, 2015, 01:58 PM
He-he, yep, lapushka :agree:, we cross-posted! And what do you know, scalp-only washes were exactly on my mind! :lol: You know me so well! ;)

OMG the exact same time. What are the chances. :lol: This is so amazing! :D

MsBubbles
September 8th, 2015, 03:08 PM
Just weighing in with my experience (and I had a chuckle when I correctly called your hair type in my mind before looking, after only having read your post).

- I tried 'stretching washes' but the longest I can ever stretch them is a day and a half. Since I have to go to work and be presentable, I am not willing to walk around with hair so greasy it looks wet and plastered to my scalp for a six week experiment. I gave up trying to stretch it after about six months.

- I wash my scalp every day, or at the worst just wet and shampoo my 'bangs' area and wear the rest of it up for that day. That's a good way to disguise the oil slick for the 24-48 hour period. You can search this site (or google + the website name, works better) for 'scalp washes' for suggestions on how people do that. It preserves my fine ends. I doubt I could have gotten my hair past waist in one piece without scalp washes.

- I was worried when switching from harsher shampoos (White Rain, Suave, Pantene, etc.) to Aubrey Organics (back when it was a superior product), because it looked like the only soap in it was some kind of oil soap. The first two or three days my scalp was a tad oilier at the end of each day, but after a week my scalp had adjusted to the gentler shampoo and the oiliness stabilized to how it was before.

I just could never stretch it past 36 hours.

Typically those of us with fine and straight hair don't have much success stretching washes or using a special brush to spread the natural oils to our ends. For me, that whole thing was a disaster.

valkyrje
September 8th, 2015, 04:29 PM
Anje, I've considered diluting the shampoo but I'm scared it won't wash out all of the sebum. For example, my boyfriend has short, but thick hair and he often washes it only with water... I keep running my fingers through it and it has never felt greasy. Training your hair might work, but unfortunately genetics play a strong part...
Meteor, the second video is very useful both for hair and learning German. :D I might try that tomorrow...
MsBubbles, I'm glad you shared your experience because I can actually relate to you and even your hair colour resembles the one I was born with.

And, well, thank you all (again xD) for mentioning the scalp washes because I've been keeping my length very conditioned lately and it's sad that I have to wash it so often it despite its good state.

P.D.: I've been considering making my own dry shampoo with cornstarch and cocoa powder but I'm kind of scared of putting actual food on my hair for so long. Does it attract.. stuff? Has any of you had experience with it?

Nini
September 9th, 2015, 01:43 AM
Just keep some time reading up around the forum and you'll find answers for just about anything you're wondering about;)

Diluting your shampoo a couple of times just to see what happens isn't anything to worry about. Either it works, or it doesn't:)

valkyrje
September 10th, 2015, 10:04 AM
I just washed my hair with diluted shampoo (I didn't get the squeaky feeling) and my hair feels great! No traces of grease. :) The thing is... I might have to find a better proportion because the way I did it won't let me save any more shampoo than usually.

meteor
September 10th, 2015, 05:17 PM
^ Sounds great! Thanks for the update, valkyrje!
If you want to use less shampoo, just put less shampoo in a separate bottle next time and fill it up with water and shake very well. I promise you'll get major foaming action from it, even if you use a small amount. The only times when one needs a huge amount of shampoo is when the hair is really dirty. But yeah, it does take a bit of experimentation to figure out ideal amounts... and the amounts will depend on the specific shampoos too, of course, due to all the differences in cleansing agents and formulations.

lapushka
September 11th, 2015, 04:23 AM
When it's really dirty or when you have SD (seborrheic dermatitis), I promise you, you cannot dilute a thing in that case!

valkyrje
September 12th, 2015, 07:26 AM
Yes, I thought so... I'll try and dilute shampoo for the next few days to see how it works, except when I oil my hair. And if it doesn't work, I'll try the scalp only washes. :)

meteor
September 12th, 2015, 11:02 AM
^ Oh, another thing is: I'd actually consider cutting down on oiling quite a bit. :) I think if the hair is already oily and 1a/F, oils can be skipped or maybe used very sparingly? :flower:

lapushka
September 12th, 2015, 02:28 PM
^ Oh, another thing is: I'd actually consider cutting down on oiling quite a bit. :) I think if the hair is already oily and 1a/F, oils can be skipped or maybe used very sparingly? :flower:

Yes, definitely. Only use oil on the very ends of your hair, if you must. I'd not even bring it up to ear level!

valkyrje
September 14th, 2015, 04:03 PM
^ Oh, another thing is: I'd actually consider cutting down on oiling quite a bit. :) I think if the hair is already oily and 1a/F, oils can be skipped or maybe used very sparingly? :flower:
Yes, definitely. Only use oil on the very ends of your hair, if you must. I'd not even bring it up to ear level!

I see your point, my hair doesn't really need it, but I really want to give the castor oil treatments a chance to see if they speed my hair growth! I haven't really noticed that my scalps gets greasier quicker after oiling, but I'll stick to doing it one time per week at the most, just in case. :) Would adding tea-tree EO help?

lapushka
September 14th, 2015, 04:18 PM
I see your point, my hair doesn't really need it, but I really want to give the castor oil treatments a chance to see if they speed my hair growth! I haven't really noticed that my scalps gets greasier quicker after oiling, but I'll stick to doing it one time per week at the most, just in case. :) Would adding tea-tree EO help?

Castor oil is pretty thick, gloopy and greasy. I doubt adding a few drops of EO will dilute it to the point that it is less oily. ;)

valkyrje
September 14th, 2015, 04:23 PM
Castor oil is pretty thick, gloopy and greasy. I doubt adding a few drops of EO will dilute it to the point that it is less oily. ;)

Oh no, I didn't mean that. I've read that it's used in shampoos for oily hair and I have it as an ingredient in an anti blemish/acne sort of a cream, so I thought it might do something! Or not. :rolleyes:

lapushka
September 14th, 2015, 04:34 PM
Oh no, I didn't mean that. I've read that it's used in shampoos for oily hair and I have it as an ingredient in an anti blemish/acne sort of a cream, so I thought it might do something! Or not. :rolleyes:

Maybe. I doubt that it will do that much if you are using the oil on your scalp as well, though. Alone in your shampoo, especially if it's an oil-combatting one, then probably yes.

Jeni
September 14th, 2015, 05:07 PM
FWIW we have the same hair type and I'm a daily washer. When I first started here in 2008? I tried to extend my washes and I had heard it's bad for your hair to wash everyday. I gave it 2ish months, never got use to it and my hair and scalp felt awful. I gave up and went back to washing daily and haven't looked back. I believe I was between waist and hip before I went crazy and bleached it and cut it. I'm back on the bandwagon and using shampoo bars but I'm still washing daily.

Basically every hair us didn't, some can go days without washing, some need it every day. It's like cones or sls or oils, nothing works for everyone. If you can extend your washes great! If you can't that's fine too.

AmberwellRou
September 14th, 2015, 05:20 PM
I've been trying to extend washes too because my scalp gets oily but with bi-daily washes the ends have been getting pretty dry and the strands are looking more, I don't know, "billowy" instead of smooth. I oil my hair occasionally, but it takes a ton of shampoo to wash it out. I'm not sure what kind of shampoo most people use to wash out EVO-- clarifying shampoo?

Nadine <3
September 14th, 2015, 05:29 PM
Maybe. I doubt that it will do that much if you are using the oil on your scalp as well, though. Alone in your shampoo, especially if it's an oil-combatting one, then probably yes.

exactly this. Tea tree oil rubbed on my scalp in oil did nothing for my scalp but cause itchies and pimples and shedding. Recently I bought a tea tree shampoo (a very cleansing one with sulfates) and my scalp LOVES it. I've notice my scalp has calmed down a lot. Less itchies and less sebum. I actually like this shampoo more than I liked Nizoral. The tea tree has been amazing for my scalp.

valkyrje
September 15th, 2015, 08:27 AM
exactly this. Tea tree oil rubbed on my scalp in oil did nothing for my scalp but cause itchies and pimples and shedding. Recently I bought a tea tree shampoo (a very cleansing one with sulfates) and my scalp LOVES it. I've notice my scalp has calmed down a lot. Less itchies and less sebum. I actually like this shampoo more than I liked Nizoral. The tea tree has been amazing for my scalp.
I see some light at the end of the tunnel! Do you think that instead of buying a shampoo with tea tree oil, I can buy a normal sulphate/cone free one and add some tea tree EO drops? I just read some info on the Internet and it seems to work pretty well this way.


FWIW we have the same hair type and I'm a daily washer. When I first started here in 2008? I tried to extend my washes and I had heard it's bad for your hair to wash everyday. I gave it 2ish months, never got use to it and my hair and scalp felt awful. I gave up and went back to washing daily and haven't looked back. I believe I was between waist and hip before I went crazy and bleached it and cut it. I'm back on the bandwagon and using shampoo bars but I'm still washing daily.

Basically every hair us didn't, some can go days without washing, some need it every day. It's like cones or sls or oils, nothing works for everyone. If you can extend your washes great! If you can't that's fine too.

Thanks for sharing your experience! Did daily washing cause notable damage on your length?

AmberwellRou, I use a sulphate/silicone-free shampoo and can easily wash off oils with that, but our hair types are different... Do you use conditioner on your ends?

Jeni
September 15th, 2015, 09:44 AM
I never noticed any out of the ordinary damage. The first time I grew my hair out I was using sls and cones and my hair was worn up 95% of the time. I was growing out blond hair dye and did monthly cassia/henna/deep conditioner treatments. I S&D when I remembered, I got trims maybe every 6 months. When I cut my hair it was shiny and I had minimal breakage/splits.

Edit to add that I was CWC washing so I did my best to protect my length from shampoo.