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DollyDagger
September 1st, 2015, 08:17 PM
Hi all,
I feel as though my hair tends to be on the more brittle side of the spectrum.
Besides moisture and hydration what would be a good regimen to somehow increase elasticity. Is it even possible?
Have you improved the elasticity of your hair? Are there specific products or treatments that would help?

T.I.A
DD
:blossom:

meteor
September 1st, 2015, 08:34 PM
Moisture treatments and oiling really help.

I think the way hair grows out of scalp (when it's virgin, undamaged) is the most elastic that it can get naturally. There isn't really anything that can be done to permanently increase elasticity, but keeping it moisturized at different humidities/dew-points is really key.

I'd recommend the SMT in the shower (where there is enough steam, so there is enough water for humectants to draw to your hair) and sealing moisture out of the shower with LOC or any other leave-in method with occlusives. Pre-poo oiling (http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html) really helps, as well.
Things like Kimberly's Defrizz Spray (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/archive/index.php/t-277.html) or HALO Rinse (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=77677) can be pretty good in medium-to-high humidity as well, since they are humectant-rich.

Getting that perfect humectant/occlusive balance right is key for maximum elasticity, but it requires quite a bit of experimentation, as it depends on your hair and also on humidity where you live. Try changing just one thing at a time to find that perfect routine for your hair. :D

I highly recommend this article on this subject, too: Managing Elasticity and Porosity in Hair - http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html

DollyDagger
September 1st, 2015, 08:47 PM
Thank you so much meteor :flower:
I will read that again. I think she has an in depth article about low porosity. I hope she does one on higher porosity. Would it be correct to say that hair that can tend towards frizziness in humid conditions is of higher porosity?
I will continue with the SMTs and try doing one in the steamy shower.
The kimberly defrizz didn't work for me with the glycerine..but I used kyjelly (its a substitute for curl keeper..lol nearly same ingredients they say ) in place of glycerin maybe that was why.
HALO rinse is on my list of stuff to try :) Pre poo oiling I will continue but ive been over oiling lately I think. I'll make sure to oil only when I'm due for a wash. (all the overzealous oiling has resulted in having to wash for me because then I start feeling like a duck from the BP Spill...lol )
Too bad we cant really permantly change elasticity..hey I wonder if olaplex changes elasticity for the better.
OH boy youre sure right "Getting that perfect humectant/occlusive balance right is key for maximum elasticity" is not so easy and requires experimentation.
Thanks for the excellent tips and direction as always meteor!:blossom:

meteor
September 1st, 2015, 09:18 PM
^ Thank you, DollyDagger! :flower:


Thank you so much meteor :flower:
I will read that again. I think she has an in depth article about low porosity. I hope she does one on higher porosity. Would it be correct to say that hair that can tend towards frizziness in humid conditions is of higher porosity?

Yes, very often more frizz in high humidity can be symptomatic of higher porosity/old damage. :agree: Porous hair lets in more water and also loses water faster, which is why occlusion provided by oils really helps. To give some anecdotal examples, I definitely saw more frizz on my damaged ends, and it's pretty normal for people who bleach hair a lot to complain about frizz and then see no frizz as they grow out virgin hair. If you want to reduce porosity temporarily, go for hydrolyzed proteins (which patch-repair temporarily) and penetrating oils, like coconut oil, which will increase the hair's hydrophobic nature by penetrating under the cuticle but also by coating hair with hydrophobic layer. Pre-poo oiling is helpful on dry hair to prevent excess water uptake and keratin loss during washing/combing: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094

Science-y Hair Blog talks about treating high-porosity hair here and there :) : http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/09/porosity-in-hair.html

Hair which is porous will take on water and other chemicals easily because of all the tiny openings in the cuticle. Most of these openings only go from the outside world to a deeper layer of cuticle. Porous hair has little flaps of cuticle sticking up. These areas can be “patched” – stuck down or filled in temporarily by hydrolyzed proteins which bond to these damaged areas, and by conditioners and silicones, but they cannot be reversed. Proteins and conditioners also form a film over hair which creates a smoother reflective surface for greater sheen.


I guess it's possible to get hair too elastic, i.e. too stretchy, gummy - for example, with over-oiling, and it can feel too lank and excessively stretchy during that famous protein-moisture stretch test. If so, I'd just go much easier on oiling or add in some clarifying washes and maybe hydrolyzed proteins to "harden" it back up a bit.

DollyDagger
September 1st, 2015, 09:36 PM
^ Thank you, DollyDagger! :flower:



Yes, very often more frizz in high humidity can be symptomatic of higher porosity/old damage. :agree: Porous hair lets in more water and also loses water faster, which is why occlusion provided by oils really helps. To give some anecdotal examples, I definitely saw more frizz on my damaged ends, and it's pretty normal for people who bleach hair a lot to complain about frizz and then see no frizz as they grow out virgin hair. If you want to reduce porosity temporarily, go for hydrolyzed proteins (which patch-repair temporarily) and penetrating oils, like coconut oil, which will increase the hair's hydrophobic nature by penetrating under the cuticle but also by coating hair with hydrophobic layer. Pre-poo oiling is helpful on dry hair to prevent excess water uptake and keratin loss during washing/combing: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12715094

Science-y Hair Blog talks about treating high-porosity hair here and there :) : http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2011/09/porosity-in-hair.html



I guess it's possible to get hair too elastic, i.e. too stretchy, gummy - for example, with over-oiling, and it can feel too lank and excessively stretchy during that famous protein-moisture stretch test. If so, I'd just go much easier on oiling or add in some clarifying washes and maybe hydrolyzed proteins to "harden" it back up a bit.

As soon as my hair gets near humidity it poofs up like mad:silly:. When I try showering without hair washing I notice it alot. Or on particularly humid days of course. Hopefully the new virgin hair should be at least somewhat less porous than the dyed areas. I'm pretty sure I have hydrolyzed protein in some of the many conditioners I've been accumulating lately so Ill look out for it.
Luckily for us coconut oil is so penetrating eh! It's an amazing substance...not only for hair but for ingesting too. I've read that the body processes it completely different than other oils because of the medium chain fatty acids. It's processed more like a carbohydrate than a fat.
I will continue with oilings but more strategically before washday :) and use a little bit of occlusive oil for my L.O.C.
Maybe hit the homedepot for some spackling to spackle these lifted up cuticles..jk :) My hair thanks you already :flower:meteor! :smooch:

diddiedaisy
September 2nd, 2015, 02:01 AM
This is my current battle, adding moisture and improving elasticity. My hair is also high porosity.

I have taken some products out of my routine which turned out to be drying my hair. I'm also trying to deep condition twice a week. Once with smt and once with redken extreme (I think this is proteiny), which I also follow with a moisture treatment. By removing a couple of problem products I saw improvement with days.

I have also just bought some more coconut oil. My plan with this is to clarify and leave on overnight once a week. Plus sometimes just put a bit on overnight but over whatever products are in my hair eg conditioner, serum. I'm not too sure if it penetrates over products.

Now I've got the coconut oil I'm only going to deep condition once a week probably.

If this is not your natural state of elasticy, then I would go back over what changes in products you have made since your problem occurred. This was my first step, well actually my first step was to come on here and ask for help!! Eliminating products can be the quickest game changer.

Good luck

Arctic
September 2nd, 2015, 06:21 AM
In addition to adding moisture, you should decrease proteins (at least for a time being). These two sort of combat the space in hairs, and if there is too much protein, there is too little moisture and vice versa.

Avoiding protein needs some careful ingredient list reading, as it's in so many product these days.


I am not very good at porosity-subject, but for curly hair I think frizz and poof are somewhat natural and to an extent unavoidable. Though apparently the more moisturized the hair, the less it will frizz.

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 11:31 AM
@diddiedaisy:D thanks for the input. Sounds like your in the same boat but on a good road to improvement. It would be great for you to pop in here and update with your progress. I'm so experimental with products lately as I've been trying so many new and different things. I should probably give each one a good trial before going onto the next. SMts and coconut oil are great :) I will continue with those as well.

@Arctic-thanks for reply :)You're right about that. I probably do not need protein. After I did a protein treatment it left my ends quite crunchy and rough feeling. And it was a protein treatments thats known for having good moisturizing properties as well (Curl Junkie Repair Me). Even when I did moisturize afterwards I still didnt like the result. :) Yes my curl type is inherently frizz-prone..lucky me..lol In winter time my hair is much subdued and behaved. In summer it's a little too gregarious and rebellious.

diddiedaisy
September 2nd, 2015, 12:21 PM
Hmmm the protein isn't appearing to be doing any harm. Maybe as I moisture after it. I may drop it for now and just use smt and coconut oil.

By the way I did an overnight coconut oil last night, wow my hair feels great today.

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 12:33 PM
Hmmm the protein isn't appearing to be doing any harm. Maybe as I moisture after it. I may drop it for now and just use smt and coconut oil.

By the way I did an overnight coconut oil last night, wow my hair feels great today.


Oh nice!:thumbsup: Im going to do a good pre poo oiling when I next wash (which hopefully wont be too soon :)

Hairkay
September 2nd, 2015, 03:10 PM
In my case that's where banana puree comes in handy.

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 03:14 PM
In my case that's where banana puree comes in handy.

Thanks Hairkay I should maybe give that another try. The one banana mask I did had also coconut milk, honey and then I added a little bit of coconut oil. Probably the coconut oil messed it up. Do you use straight banana puree or mix it with other ingredients?

sarahthegemini
September 2nd, 2015, 03:43 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong guys but doesn't coconut oil increase elasticity? When applied prior to washing?

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 03:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong guys but doesn't coconut oil increase elasticity? When applied prior to washing?
It should help with moisurizing and penetrating hair to make hair proteins hydrophobic. The coconut oil mixed in the mask that I was referring to just didnt work in that mask for my hair.

Coconut oils great! my mask recipe wasnt though..:)

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html
heres some good info on it

Hairkay
September 2nd, 2015, 05:29 PM
Thanks Hairkay I should maybe give that another try. The one banana mask I did had also coconut milk, honey and then I added a little bit of coconut oil. Probably the coconut oil messed it up. Do you use straight banana puree or mix it with other ingredients?

I've used banana puree on it's own and tried mixes with banana & apples and banana & strawberries.

DollyDagger
September 2nd, 2015, 05:40 PM
I've used banana puree on it's own and tried mixes with banana & apples and banana & strawberries.
ok thanks Hairkay I've got some ripening now. Unless my son throws them all in his shakes I may snag one :)

lapushka
September 3rd, 2015, 03:48 PM
ok thanks Hairkay I've got some ripening now. Unless my son throws them all in his shakes I may snag one :)

Be careful with banana, though. I tried it once and had chunks in my hair. You either want to blend them to bits (and even then you can have chunks in your hair), or use baby food banana (no chunks).

DollyDagger
September 3rd, 2015, 03:52 PM
Be careful with banana, though. I tried it once and had chunks in my hair. You either want to blend them to bits (and even then you can have chunks in your hair), or use baby food banana (no chunks).
I sure will lapushka...thnx Ive heard a few tales of banana bits in hair..lol