Help a straight haired newb deal with her DD's curls

[VeggiePixie]

The title pretty much says it all. I was blessed with 3 curly headed kids. My 10 y/o daughter, has type 3a/b f/i/ii curls, that when stretched, are almost at her waist. I already know some of the basics, she sleeps on a satin pillowcase, we detangle when wet and loaded with conditioner, ect ect.

My question is, recently her hair has been really unmanageable. Tangled, matted, fairy knots, breakage, the works. She really wants long hair, how do I fix this? Our usual routine is co wash with either mane and tail or white rain and an occasional wash with a dilute dr. Bronners. I would love some suggestions and product reccomendations.

She doesn't like oil in her hair, hates wearing it in braids or buns and has the damage to prove it. It's so fragile right now I'm afraid to detangle. Help?!

[jeanniet]

Kinky Curly Knot Today is a great detangler and can be used as a leave in. If you're not using a leave in now, try it, or at least only do a very light final rinse. If she won't tolerate that, try using a heavier conditioner after the CO.

Mane & Tail is pretty protein heavy from what I understand, so maybe that's the problem, although fine hair often does pretty well with protein. Try cutting it out and see how it goes.

My son has gorgeous, thick 3b hair,, but it's very resilient. He doesn't follow any curly rules and it still looks good (very annoying!). But he doesn't care about growing long, so that helps. He's also 19 so forget getting him to listen to me!

[teal]

If it's just recently become unmanageable and there's no apparent cause, maybe a clarifying/chelating shampoo is needed?

[Nique1202]

Yeah if it's a sudden change in manageability after a long period of the routine working fine, try clarifying with something labeled for clarifying or deep cleansing, especially if it also has chelating (for mineral buildup, not all clarifying shampoos do this) on the label. It seems counterintuitive, but buildup does weird things to hair.

[DweamGoiL]

My daughter has 3a-b/f/iii hair. Mine is 2a-b/f/iii so it took me a while to learn what to do with her hair. She had it to TBL for years, but it's now to a bit above shoulder. She just turned 11 and wanted to learn to care for it on her own.

I used to CO wash her hair with Suave Naturals Ocean Breeze conditioner. It's the only thing that works well for her. I do wash her hair with shampoo every now and again, but no sulfates because they are too harsh for her hair. I LOVE Kinky Curly Knot Today. We use it as a detangler and a leave-in and I also apply a light curling gel as a last step. Right now, the gel of choice is Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper. If it's going to be worn down, once it's washed and product is applied, the trick is to not touch it again until it is completely dry. This is challenging for a child when they wear it down and it gets tangly because then you have to wash or wet it more often and generally, they don't like to fuss with their hair so much.

I kept my daughter's hair in a single braid down the back when it was that long. It kept it easier to manage at that length. Right after a wash, it was worn down and during the first day after a wash, but after that, it got increasingly tanglier as it gained length. If clarifying/chelating does not improve things, she may need a trim.

[VeggiePixie]

Thanks all! I will try a clarifying shampoo and see if that works. I also forgot to add.... we are currently phasing out all products that either contain animal products or are tested on animals, so anything I buy has to meet that criteria. I'm difficult like that. It's no problem for me, my hair is so short I wash i with a bar of castile soap. :o. But all the vegan stuff for curly hair seems to be geared toward ethnic hair, and it's simply too heavy or reacts oddly with her hair.

I am currently using up a curl cream/gel on my own hair (as a gel) because it was awful for hers. I have to do a better job of looking at ingredients and making a note of what works and what doesn't.

It's definitely a learning experience!

Thanks for all your input!

[lapushka]

I'd clarify-wash, for sure. Second. Doesn't the mane 'n tail contain protein? Maybe it's that. I'd try a moisturizing conditioner such as Herbal Essences Hello Hydration, besides giving plenty of moisture, it is also a great detangler. It does contain silicones, should you not want those.

[Gamma Vector]

My suspect is the Dr Bronners. If it's at all possible that your water has hardened, even a bit, that can cause serious problems. I would try clarifying/chelating with a shampoo made for the purpose, then go back to CO washing and see if the issue doesn't fix itself.

Also, as a curly haired child of a pin-straight haired mother, I want to thank you for taking the time to learn how to manage your daughter's hair correctly. My hair was awful until my senior year of highschool, when I finally worked out how to manage it on my own (thank you, Google), because my mother had no idea what to do with it when I was little. And this was before the internet was everywhere, so she didn't really have anywhere to learn, either. So basically, thank you for not inflicting the pyramid head style on your daughter.

[ghanima]

Hello, new to the forum but not to curls!
While in the process of figuring out more complex methods, you could try this if it resonates.

I discovered fairly recently (meaning, a couple of years ago) the trick of rinsing the hair - after shampoo - with cold water and a splash of apple cider vinegar, and you won't believe the wonders it does to my hair and curls.
How I do it is on the sink, so after shampooing I get out of the shower for this last part.
I use two bowls: one big and one small. I place the big bowl in the sink, fill it with cold water and a splash of ACV. Then with the smaller bowl I pour the water on my hair, over and over, as the water falls back into the large bowl so this can continue for a while. 10-15 times would do unless kiddo protests...
The vinegar both nourishes and conditions the hair, and makes them all bouncy. And the acidity is just right for the hair! skin and hair should always be left slightly acidic for them to thrive. Very simple concept.
The smell of vinegar is faint, being that it's diluted, but I still prefer to smell good so I finish it with a couple of drops of essential oil (on the palm of the hand, then pass the hand through the hair).

Since I discovered vinegar I've thrown away all conditioners and products (I just use some some olive oil on the points every now and then but my son doesn't need it), and I've never had better curls. Btw it's good for straight hair too, like the hair of my son, they get shiny and voluminous.

Another thing I wanted to add, maybe blasphemy, but, when my hair gets knotted a little too much, for me it's sign that it needs a trim. Maybe just half an inch just to let go of the velcro in the points.

[MandyBeth]

It may be age related also. My 13 yo has had very, shall we say disagreeable hair since we got her home (adopted @ 11) and it's hormonal. Younger daughter is starting to have similar changes at 10, but her hair does what it wants anyway and her harder curl pattern is much more stubbornly curly.

But if her hair isn't confined during the day, it's going to get damage.

Mane n Tail is very protein heavy. It may be the problem. Protein turns my cat fine hair into a knotted, velcro mess.

I'd start with clarifying, then a moisture treatment. Then an acidic rinse. My older girl can't use vinegar as it disagrees. But Fruit Fresh highly diluted works fine for her.

Then she's got to decide if she wants to take care of long hair with at least putting it up. If she doesn't, she'll need to cut it back. It may not need much length off to work, but my girls can't have loose hair without some major tangles. Plus youngest has some hazards with loose hair, it's waist/hips full on curly. It's on the floor pulled straight. If your daughter wants long hair, teach her safety NOW. It's up and confined if there's any catch risks at bare minimum. School here requires it for fire and chemical risk also. And I'm a stone cold b**** on those rules. Either it's confined to not be a catch risk or it's short enough to not be a catch risk. And I may not give a warning.

[ghanima]

Also, about possibly dry points velcroing and making the hair un-tamable - I spray at least once a day my hair with water and ACV and it's absolutely great to moisturize dry points, especially if combined with some oil. In fact I do the same for my skin (this is what creams are made of after all, water+oils).

[MandyBeth]

Trader's Joe conditioner is decent and should be safe for your requirements. Paul Mitchell and Aveda won't have testing, but no clue on ingredients. Granted, if it's sold in China, there's some testing. And any product has some testing in it's history, even if not by that company.

[alexis917]

When was her last trim? Can't hurt. I also must say, MandyBeth makes a great point- it could be hormonal! I was going through puberty around 8/9, and until I got on birth control at 14 for my hormonal imbalances, my hair was CRAZY! It was so wiry, bushy, and downright unruly. In hindsight, it was probably curling, but I had no idea what that was. Until that point, I had the same hair I do now- fairly manageable, soft-but-not-silky, 1c hair. So maybe her hair texture is changing?

[VeggiePixie]

Oh gosh! Thank you for all the responses! I'm not quite sure where to find a vegan friendly clarifying shampoo, but I did wash her hair with Everyday Coconut Shampoo, and then conditioned with White Rain Ocean Mist (its what I use to shave my legs) I also ran some through her length as a leave in. I was actually able to comb it out whn wet with condish, and it felt softer than usual when it dried.

We have tried vinegar rinses in the past, and while I love them for her hair, she HATES it, and considering its her head I'm pouring vinegar on, we decided against them.n:o

I have convinced her to wear her hair braided, which is great, but her canopy refuses to stay in braids. She came home from school today looking like a little lion, with a halo of frizzies everywhere. I can manage a french (I think its a french) braid and an english braid, but not much else. Maybe I need to find some gel. I will try to start the braid closer to the hairline, but its hard to gather her hair, its thinnest at the temples.


Whoever mentioned hard water.....you are absolutely right. Our water is awful! We will keep plodding along, good thing she tolerates me playing with her hair:p.

Thank you again for all the wonderful suggestions!

[VeggiePixie]

Unfortunately, we don't have a Trader Joe around here, and she is adamant about a trim. The last time I took her, the lady cut four inches off!

[MandyBeth]

I think TJ will ship within the US.

Clarifying, Paul Mitchell Shampoo One straight works nearly as well as an actual one. I don't think there are any animal products in it, and they don't test AFAIK.

Any slightly acidic rinse should help. We have used lime juice before, Fruit Fresh is just easier. My girls don't like the smell either, so I won't bother with vinegar.

Flax seed gel. Super easy to make, vegan friendly, and it doesn't build up for us at least.

With hard water, try chelating treatment. The shampoo is not vegan friendly, but I think there's a way with soda water. Which I totally forget since we have filters for our water and it's not an issue.

And try crossing the braid under, that seems to catch my daughters hair better and it's the only way to contain mine. It'll pop up from her head, it's a Dutch braid. But crossing under seems to hold so much better for us.

[ghanima]

We have tried vinegar rinses in the past, and while I love them for her hair, she HATES it, and considering its her head I'm pouring vinegar on, we decided against them.n:o

Don't use plain vinegar, just a splash of it in a bowl of water, if you also add a couple of drops of essential oil she won't know it's vinegar at all. Gentle does it... Also, give her a small towel to put on her face. Alternatively, you can mist it with a spray bottle, although it's not as good that's what I do with my son's hair, that are at chin so he doesn't need much maintenance. And try it yourself as it would be good to your hair too! if mom is convinced, daughter will sense it...

My own routine is I do the rinse after washing once a week, and after combing in the evening I mist it while also applying organic olive oil on the points (the two combined are very moisturizing) plus lavender oil, then braid (recent addition and I am not sure if it's my keeper, because it kind of changes the curls). In the past I only combed once a week with wet hair and conditioner like many curlies do, but I found out I prefer to comb dry hair every evening. To comb I use a brush with wood nails or an african comb in wood. Overnight the curls form again, especially because of the right ph.

It's very simple chemistry: skin and hair just love having a slightly low ph. I mist the vinegar water on my skin too now, while applying olive oil or jojoba oil with my favorite scents. I used to buy lots of expensive products and I threw them all out of the window.

[ghanima]

Unfortunately, we don't have a Trader Joe around here, and she is adamant about a trim. The last time I took her, the lady cut four inches off!
You can micro-trim it yourself, curl by curl - look into DEVA method. It's not my method but I imagine it would be alright for your daughter as it's very gentle.