Hair care tips for permed curls?

[Kizuna]

Hi all!

I'm planning on perming my hair to get curls and some volume. I reached my goal length in 2013 (thread here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=110546)) and I'm now ready for a change (my hair has been neglected the last year).
I've got a time booked for Monday in the only organic hair salon in town. I'm thinking of going from my 1b/c hair to something like 3a/b. I've talked to my hairdresser and showed her pictures of how I wanted it and she got all excited and said she could do it. So I have a good feeling about it!
Since I've never had curls before I was wondering if you have any tips on how to take care of permed curls?

Is there something I should think of before I do the perm? Like deep conditioning or something to prevent damage?
Is there something I should think about after the perm is done? I know I have to treat my hair like a curly hair, and not like my regular straight hair. And I'm atm reading in on curly girls method and the wurly and curly thread here. But do you have any specific tips for perms?

This is my hair now:
http://linnarvidsson.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/IMG_20150714_012841-e1436894799824.jpg

All tips are appreciated!

[lapushka]

Think twice before going the perm route.

I was shoulder and had my hair permed in the past (it's all grown out now). My hair was half riddled in white dots from perm damage. I then grew it out from shoulder to hip, all with the white dots (and plenty of silicones to coat it as to prevent breakage). I had a massive S&D session at hip, but because the damage was so extensive, it thinned my hair half out, and so it had to be cut back to BSL.

There's nothing you can do to prevent the damage!

I went curly girl on the perm, couldn't CO-wash because of seborrheic dermatitis (scalp issues) and so I WCC'd as a routine. I worked well for me. I honestly and truly enjoyed my curls, but I wouldn't do it again in a million years - because of the damage and the length I lost.

Chances are they will want to cut your hair short for the perm, because otherwise you'd need a spiral perm on hair that long (to keep it).

[jeanniet]

I don't think it will be quite the same as caring for curly hair, because you'll have some degree of damage and dryness beyond what a natural curly will have. So you'll want to emphasize getting moisture into your hair even more--absolutely CO if at all possible, and use a LOT of leave in. You'll probably be astonished at how much leave in you can use, but using enough will go a long way toward keeping your hair feeling good. You may also want to do some kind of weekly deep treatment, and protein treatments from time to time.

If you have much damage on your ends now (you said you've neglected your hair for a year, but I don't know if that means damage), you might want to consider a trim so you don't have a perm and then have your ends break off. If the ends aren't bad you're probably OK, and you can always trim some after if you think you need to.

[Kizuna]

Thank you lapushka for your reply.
I've thought about the damage it might do, and I'm all right with that right now (we'll see how I feel after the perm is done though), I really want curls. We're gonna trim it and then do spiral curls to keep the length. I went in for a consultation because I didn't want them to cut it shorter. Thank you for your concern :)
I'll look into WCC. I've been trying CO-washing before but as like you, I also have a very sensitive scalp as well as body over all (atopic dermatitis). I feel I need to find a good routine to clean my hair now and find something that works both for the scalp and the curls.

[Kizuna]

I don't think it will be quite the same as caring for curly hair, because you'll have some degree of damage and dryness beyond what a natural curly will have. So you'll want to emphasize getting moisture into your hair even more--absolutely CO if at all possible, and use a LOT of leave in. You'll probably be astonished at how much leave in you can use, but using enough will go a long way toward keeping your hair feeling good. You may also want to do some kind of weekly deep treatment, and protein treatments from time to time.

If you have much damage on your ends now (you said you've neglected your hair for a year, but I don't know if that means damage), you might want to consider a trim so you don't have a perm and then have your ends break off. If the ends aren't bad you're probably OK, and you can always trim some after if you think you need to.

Oh, you posted while I was writing the other reply!

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. That it won't be exactly the same, rather curls with more damage. As I wrote in the post earlier CO doesn't work for me in the long run, but I think I really should bunker up on conditioner! I've never done a protein treatment before, I'll look into that. Maybe that's something I should do even if I don't have curls. :)

Well, it's neglected in the way that I've used way lot more hairspray in it than before. I've also worn it TONS of times in messy buns that I sleep in and don't brush my hair the next day and just keep on going to make another messy bun. I've been to my hair dresser three times (during 2014-2015) to trim the ends though. The ends would be so much better if I had actually taken care of my hair and not been so hard on it.

[lapushka]

The link to WCC is in my signature, Kizuna. Hope your appointment goes well!

[Kizuna]

Ah yes! Thank you for pointing it out! I'll look into the other link you have there as well :)

[lapushka]

If you have any questions just ask (either in the appropriate threads, or here - either is fine). :D

[Carolyn]

My only advice is think twice and then think again. I speak from bitter experience. Yes the curls can be lovely and fun for a few weeks or even a couple of months. But then the damage becomes more apparent and you will have to deal with the straighter hair near your roots and the damaged frizzed hair at the ends. Are you sure you want to risk it? I've grown out several perms in my lifetime and it's not fun. I think your hair is lovely as it is. I wish you the best.

[meteor]

I agree absolutely about thinking twice about this. There are non-damaging ways of achieving the same or very similar results (see below). :flower:


Since I've never had curls before I was wondering if you have any tips on how to take care of permed curls?

Is there something I should think of before I do the perm? Like deep conditioning or something to prevent damage?
Is there something I should think about after the perm is done? I know I have to treat my hair like a curly hair, and not like my regular straight hair. And I'm atm reading in on curly girls method and the wurly and curly thread here. But do you have any specific tips for perms?

Permed hair, relaxed hair or otherwise processed hair likes:
- ceramides (they naturally occur in hair, but chemical processing depletes them): http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/08/ceramides-patching-up-damaged-hair.html
- penetrating oils (e.g. coconut), because permed hair is porous and has reduced elasticity, and, of course,
- hydrolyzed proteins to temporarily patch-repair (e.g. Joico K-Pak or DIY gelatin mask or a more heavy-duty Aphogee 2-step...)

Generally speaking, you'll probably want to condition more heavily with "reconstructing" products for damaged/chemically processed/dry hair. Pre-poo oiling is very useful for processed hair, too. :)

Other than that: super-gentle handling, containing hair in updos, sleeping on silky materials... you know the drill. :)


I've got a time booked for Monday in the only organic hair salon in town.

I'm not sure if it's too obvious to be worth mentioning, but I think I should, just in case: there is no such thing as an organic/natural perm, it will always include some damaging chemicals and a very high pH`(e.g. usually sodium thioglycolate instead of ammonium thioglycolate back in the day, at a pH of 8 to 9.5 - which is quite damaging). :flower: Without damage (permanently breaking bonds), the perm simply would not hold.

I think some of the perms are a tiny bit better (still very, very damaging), like some self-heating exothermic perms, with neutral or low pH, thioglycolate-free perms... And research so-called "digital perms", which are supposed to create a more defined curl/wave and are very popular in Asian countries. I have no idea if they are any better, but they are newer... Maybe somebody who knows more about those can chime in on how they compare. :)


I think it's worth mentioning that perms still require curl-styling - people with perms still have to maintain the defined look using wet-setting techniques with styling products (some even use heat!).
Frankly, you can probably get the same results with damage-free wet-setting without the perm... it just won't hold for that long, but you can always help the hold with gels, mousses, hairsprays... ;)
Some wet-setting examples:
- flexirods;
- curlformers;
- foam rollers;
- overnight bunning/braiding...

Beautyklove has amazing videos for heatfree, super-easy curls/waves: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4626FAE04F57ED14
(https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4626FAE04F57ED14)

[lapushka]

My only advice is think twice and then think again. I speak from bitter experience. Yes the curls can be lovely and fun for a few weeks or even a couple of months. But then the damage becomes more apparent and you will have to deal with the straighter hair near your roots and the damaged frizzed hair at the ends. Are you sure you want to risk it? I've grown out several perms in my lifetime and it's not fun. I think your hair is lovely as it is. I wish you the best.

Yes, you will have the perm grow out. That's one downside to it. It wasn't so bad because I have wavy hair, and so it wasn't that apparent, but on 1b hair it is going to show - bad!

[Kizuna]

I agree absolutely about thinking twice about this. There are non-damaging ways of achieving the same or very similar results (see below). :flower:



Permed hair, relaxed hair or otherwise processed hair likes:
- ceramides (they naturally occur in hair, but chemical processing depletes them): http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2010/08/ceramides-patching-up-damaged-hair.html
- penetrating oils (e.g. coconut), because permed hair is porous and has reduced elasticity, and, of course,
- hydrolyzed proteins to temporarily patch-repair (e.g. Joico K-Pak or DIY gelatin mask or a more heavy-duty Aphogee 2-step...)

Generally speaking, you'll probably want to condition more heavily with "reconstructing" products for damaged/chemically processed/dry hair. Pre-poo oiling is very useful for processed hair, too. :)

Other than that: super-gentle handling, containing hair in updos, sleeping on silky materials... you know the drill. :)



I'm not sure if it's too obvious to be worth mentioning, but I think I should, just in case: there is no such thing as an organic/natural perm, it will always include some damaging chemicals and a very high pH`(e.g. usually sodium thioglycolate instead of ammonium thioglycolate back in the day, at a pH of 8 to 9.5 - which is quite damaging). :flower: Without damage (permanently breaking bonds), the perm simply would not hold.

I think some of the perms are a tiny bit better (still very, very damaging), like some self-heating exothermic perms, with neutral or low pH, thioglycolate-free perms... And research so-called "digital perms", which are supposed to create a more defined curl/wave and are very popular in Asian countries. I have no idea if they are any better, but they are newer... Maybe somebody who knows more about those can chime in on how they compare. :)


I think it's worth mentioning that perms still require curl-styling - people with perms still have to maintain the defined look using wet-setting techniques with styling products (some even use heat!).
Frankly, you can probably get the same results with damage-free wet-setting without the perm... it just won't hold for that long, but you can always help the hold with gels, mousses, hairsprays... ;)
Some wet-setting examples:
- flexirods;
- curlformers;
- foam rollers;
- overnight bunning/braiding...

Beautyklove has amazing videos for heatfree, super-easy curls/waves: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4626FAE04F57ED14
(https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4626FAE04F57ED14)

Thank you for the information on ceramides, oils and protein. :) I'll be sure to look into all of them!
And yes, well I do not expect the perm to be any less damaging than in any other salon. But I do LOVE all their products they use when they rinse you hair and such. :)

I've done lots of non-heat curls, but I really want something permanent. I really do appreciate the concern all of you have, and the warnings you guys give me. :blossom: I'm set in my decision though. I'll see how it turns out when it grows out as well.. Maybe there's a fellow 1b that has had a perm and can share how they did/how it looked?