Suebian Knot

[meteor]

I am always interested in historical hairstyles and one of the mysteries to me is how the Suebian Knot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suebian_knot) was achieved. It was mentioned on the LHC, but I haven't found any instructions yet...

I think it could even be pretty wearable if done in the back of the head rather than the front.
I saw pictorial instructions for this style (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/91/de/05/91de057807dfbece5def60d9ef1175a3.jpg), but I get lost between steps 5 and 6. Step 5 looks like it could be a standard Celtic Knot bun, but it leaves some hair out and I can't figure out what happens after that stage to make that hanging loop. :hmm:

Igor ( Igorsbelltower ) achieved this style successfully, and I think it looks amazing on her, both variations: pinned up or not: http://igorsbelltower.blogspot.ca/2014/12/todays-hair-suebian-knot.html - but I can't figure out what she did there. Can you guys help, pretty please? :pray:

[DreamSheep]

http://wotanklan.tumblr.com/post/33427757449/stfunithingas-the-suebian-knot-was-a-hairstyle

Found this on a quick search, not sure if helpful?

[meteor]

^ Thank you, DreamSheep! :) I'm still not sure how that third loop is done (last step or two). I'm terrible at understanding picture instructions. :lol:

[DreamSheep]

(I agree ^-^ Hence me feeling it wasn't super helpful)

[two_wheels]

That tutorial at step 5-6 does remind me a bit of this cartoon:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b31569e2019aff29b7cd970c-450wi

[meteor]

That tutorial at step 5-6 does remind me a bit of this cartoon:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b31569e2019aff29b7cd970c-450wi

:rollin: LOL, yeah, I love instructions like that! Especially when everybody else seems to be able to follow them easily, and I'm left scratching my head... :brains: :lol:

[sumidha]

I'm sueper confused... Step five just looks like a slip knot?

It looks really nice on Igor, though. :)

[swords & roses]

Here's what it looks like to me, but I could be wrong!

1. Twirl hair, as if to prepare to make a cinnabun.
2. Make the first circle of a cinnabun.
3. Pull part of the twirled hair that's still in your hand through the center of the first cinnabun circle to make the hanging-down loop.
4. Coil the remainder of your length around the base of everything, like a bee-butt bun or cinnabun.

But I could totally be wrong on that. :/

[Swan Maiden]

Oh my gosh!!! Thank you for starting this thread! I need to know how to do this. :)

[Aderyn]

Would love to see a video tutorial or more pics of this! Such a nice style.

Step 5 looks like you just pull a twisted loop through the hole seen in picture 4.

Step 6 looks like you might flip the bun/knot/thing from step 5 somehow. Not entirely sure, though.. the pictures aren't very specific in that regard.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

If only that lady who did it herself would put a video tutorial up showing how she did it. I wonder how she found out?

[Swan Maiden]

Any sailors, raft guides, climbers, or anyone who works with ropes or knots have any ideas?

[Crystawni]

This coat of arms (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Wappen_von_Osterby_bei_Eckernfoerde_in_Deutschland .png) from the Wiki link shows the knot (I'm guessing the tail is wrapped around the stem and tucked).

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Aha. According to that coat of arms, I've done it correctly. This is my attempt at it this evening. I did it as a half up which allowed me to have a longer loop. The bottom half of my hair I just twisted and wrapped around the base. It gave the knot more of a solid appearance.

I love it, it holds so well with just a couple of spin pins and the weight is spread nicely, due to it being a half up.

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3204.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3193.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3191.jpg

[Yarrow]

This is such a throwback for me. I haven't done this hair style in years but I remember printing out the instructions from a now defunct site and putting it in my beauty book. lol. but it didnt suit me and it was for guys, so I never really did it a lot.


Here's what it looks like to me, but I could be wrong!

1. Twirl hair, as if to prepare to make a cinnabun.
2. Make the first circle of a cinnabun.
3. Pull part of the twirled hair that's still in your hand through the center of the first cinnabun circle to make the hanging-down loop.
4. Coil the remainder of your length around the base of everything, like a bee-butt bun or cinnabun.

But I could totally be wrong on that. :/
Yes, you're right.
There is a german youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV5s64Cv8ZA) (actual hairstyle starts at 1:33 or so)
and the accompanying text to the pic Dreamsheep linked can be found at the German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suebenknoten) ( the english entry seems to be a little sparse)
a real sucky and rough translation would be
,
The Suebian Knot requires long hair. The hair is divided into two equal strands at the back of the head, combed straight and placed opposite around the head. on one side of the head, commonly the temple region, both strands are individually twisted tightly in the same direction. Both strands are then twined/twisted together, whereas they loosen through the twist a bit. in the end, a sling is formed with the rope braid and the left hanging
braid end is laid into a loop in the sling. through the entwinment/twist the hereby formed knot pulls itself tight and holds without any help/ tools.


looks very nice sarahlabryinth!!!

[Crystawni]

Oh, good idea on using a half-up, Sarahlabyrinth! When I did it with a full head of hair, my little loop just dicked out at 90 degrees from the tightly-wound knot. I did have better success with just coiling my hair like a cinnabun (without dividing it), but still need less volume/more length (or, *cough cough* a half-up!!!). :p

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Actually (thinking hard) I could probably braid the lower half of my hair and wrap it round the knot to make it look even more intricate.... might try this tomorrow.

[spirals]

Is it just me that thinks the first step is actually a rope braid?

[Panth]

Is it just me that thinks the first step is actually a rope braid?

Agreed. To me it looks like the tutorial is this:

1) Part hair using a centre parting
2) Part right half of hair into top/bottom.
3) Twist top/bottom together, making a rope braid.
4) Start coiling rope braid into a bun.
5) Magic happens.
6) Et voila: bun.

Though step 5 looks somewhat like it's based on two slip knots stacked. I.e. make a slip knot then pass the tail end through the loop of the slip knot, creating a second loop, then pull the first loop tight. (And, here, presumably wrap the remaining tail behind the bun.)

[Lady Mary]

That tutorial at step 5-6 does remind me a bit of this cartoon:
http://sethgodin.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b31569e2019aff29b7cd970c-450wi

Haha, oh man, this is me during every tutorial. :p

[spirals]

"5. magic happens" That really made me LOL.

[meteor]

Thank you so very much for taking the time to reply! :flowers: You are extremely helpful!! :love:


Aha. According to that coat of arms, I've done it correctly. This is my attempt at it this evening. I did it as a half up which allowed me to have a longer loop. The bottom half of my hair I just twisted and wrapped around the base. It gave the knot more of a solid appearance.

I love it, it holds so well with just a couple of spin pins and the weight is spread nicely, due to it being a half up.

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3204.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3193.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3191.jpg

Wow!! It's absolutely gorgeous, Sarahlabyrinth! :thud: I don't understand how exactly it was done, but it looks amazing on you! :applause Please teach us your ways! :pray:


This coat of arms (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Wappen_von_Osterby_bei_Eckernfoerde_in_Deutschland .png) from the Wiki link shows the knot (I'm guessing the tail is wrapped around the stem and tucked).

Thanks so very much, Crystawni! Is it just me, or does that look like a Celtic Knot bun (which, I believe, should be achieved in step 5 of that pictorial)? ... But then there is something else that happens at step 6 (when the 3rd loop is somehow added with the remaining hair).

Here is a quick Celtic Knot bun tutorial that shows it well (but there are other videos on YT to help as well :flower: ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oTWCYj6ulE



This is such a throwback for me. I haven't done this hair style in years but I remember printing out the instructions from a now defunct site and putting it in my beauty book. lol. but it didnt suit me and it was for guys, so I never really did it a lot.


Yes, you're right.
There is a german youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV5s64Cv8ZA) (actual hairstyle starts at 1:33 or so)

Yay! Thanks a lot for sharing that YT video, Yarrow! :flowers: It definitely looks like the end result is the Suebian knot... but doesn't her procedure look like Celtic Knot Bun? Or maybe I'm missing some steps there (quite likely for me, sorry, guys) ... I'm curious how she got it to hang semi-loosely there, as celtic knot bun wouldn't normally create that effect...

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Meteor, I will see if I can do a video on how I do it. Maybe tomorrow, I am sick with a head cold and sore throat at the moment :(

Though mine does look different from the one in the photos, I still like the way mine looks, too. Hers has extra loopiness to it, somehow and looks amazing. I wish she would do a tutorial.

[Wavelength]

Showed the original instructions to my husband and a friend, and they both declared it was sorcery. I'm inclined to agree! :p

[meteor]

^ Yay, no pressure, but that would be so amazing, Sarahlabyrinth! :applause Your videos are always crystal-clear and also you exude very friendly and calm energy - always a real joy to watch them! :love:

[meteor]

"5. magic happens" That really made me LOL.


Showed the original instructions to my husband and a friend, and they both declared it was sorcery. I'm inclined to agree! :p

:lol: I can totally relate! :lol: I've looked at those pictures and looked - yup, I call it sorcery! :magic:

[rusika1]

Based on that wikipedia picture it looks like a slipknot. I guess you'd wrap the 'live' end around the bun and pin in place? I just tried it on my braid and it seemed to work.

ETA: So start it like a gibraltar but twist your hair first, then only pull your hair partway through so it forms a loop. Wrap/fasten your ends, and secure the knot. does that sound close?

[meteor]

^ Sounds great, rusika1! :applause Congratulations on managing that tricky knot! :D
He-he, I didn't even know what a slipknot was :oops: - wow, I guess I'd be a terrible sailor! :lol:

[rusika1]

^ Sounds great, rusika1! :applause Congratulations on managing that tricky knot! :D
He-he, I didn't even know what a slipknot was :oops: - wow, I guess I'd be a terrible sailor! :lol:

Not a crocheter I'm guessing? :lol: Looking forward to Sarahlabyrinth's tutorial!

[meteor]

^ He-he, true! :lol:
I really think of people who can crochet and knit to be some kind of sorcerers! Very patient sorcerers! :magic:

[spirals]

Thanks for the compliment! (I crochet, and it does take patience. And money.)

[Yarrow]

It definitely looks like the end result is the Suebian knot... but doesn't her procedure look like Celtic Knot Bun? Or maybe I'm missing some steps there (quite likely for me, sorry, guys) ... I'm curious how she got it to hang semi-loosely there, as celtic knot bun wouldn't normally create that effect...
I just looked up the instructions on how to do a celtic bun correctly (I seem to be one of the few video that prefers instructions and pictures over video tutorials. And guess what I actually changed a step, when I normally do it)http://100-hairstyles.freidenkerin.de/index.php?/archives/25-19-Celtic-Bun-Keltischer-Knoten.html
And you are correct, it's the same as a celtic bun. And according to this tutorial the celtic bun is a slip knot , who knew!(not me that is for sure)
The difference is that the strands are twisted and instead of not fully pulling the second loop through the first in the celtic, in the Siberian knot you hold the end and pull the second loop, hereby tightening the knot so it doesn't unravel and you don't need to cinnaroll the ends and pin the bun as you would with the celtic.
It really looks more complicated than it actually is .

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Here's my video of how I do it :)

https://youtu.be/IRtVDThl5gY

[Panth]

Here's my video of how I do it :)

https://youtu.be/IRtVDThl5gY

So, IMO this is half of it. You pull the hair through the first twist to create the big dangly loop. IMO, you should be essentially repeating that move again using the second loop (your dangly loop) - so, pull hair half-through it to create a loop. The hair should also probably be twisted or rope braided to make it look like the bog body's hair.

(For the crocheters/knitters/yarn handlers: essentially making a crochet chain of three loops (including the starting loop) and tightening the second one very tight so that it's practically hidden within the centre of the first. Does that make any sense...?)

[Sarahlabyrinth]

...So which bit of hair do you pull through the big dangly loop? The loose end that you have left over?

And is that the same as what Yarrow was saying? Because I am very confused now.

And will that give a result like the lady's hair in the photograph? Because that's what I want to be able to do.

[Panth]

...So which bit of hair do you pull through the big dangly loop? The loose end that you have left over?

I... think maybe, yes? If you were doing it a la a crochet chain then, yes. You'd take the loose, straight end left over and pull it through the big dangly loop part-way to create another loop. (This is all guessing, though. I did try a vague experiment on my hair but as I fail miserably at tried-and-tested updos that everyone else can do ... yeah, it didn't work well.)

Having said that, looking at the pictoral instructions again it looks like yours is correct and the only variation is that you use wrapped rather than twisted hair.

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Well, I just tried it again, the same as in my video except that this time I started with a rope braided ponytail. It had a cousinly resemblance to the hairdo in the photograph. Now I just need to be better at rope braiding and then I think I will have nailed it....

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Yes, that's how she did it all right - using a rope braid which is twisted the way I did it in my video. It doesn't look good on me because of my taper, but would look great on someone with no taper. I suppose I could try it with a paranda - hmmm....

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Well it looks ok on me with a paranda, here ya go -

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3330.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3328.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3348.jpg



YAY that we figured out how to do it! ;)

[Night_Kitten]

Here's my video of how I do it :)

https://youtu.be/IRtVDThl5gY

Thank you so much for doing that video :D
Twisting the hair into a rope-braid (which seems the first step in the picture guide) would probably give the "softly twisted" effect to the loop and make it look more complicated / extra loopy (like what you have on the later pics with the paranda - love the way that bun looks on you :) )
I wonder how it would look with other braids? Probably each different braid type would make the bun look slightly different...
I never quite managed the Celtic knot bun, hoping I'll have more luck with this style :)

[Swan Maiden]

I love that LHC can crack this archaic hairstyle.

[Panth]

Well it looks ok on me with a paranda, here ya go -

<snip>

YAY that we figured out how to do it! ;)

I think that last one: you nailed it!

[cat11]

Wow, this looks great. Adding it to my "when I have more hair" list...

[browneyedsusan]

Here's my video of how I do it :)

https://youtu.be/IRtVDThl5gY

Thanks! That is super cool! I hope to try it soon. :)

[rusika1]

Great job, Sarahlabyrinth, I think you've nailed it.

My guess is that the originals were probably heavily pomaded to help everything stay twisted and in place.

Here are my two attempts from the other day. The braided version was easier to do but harder to get tight enough: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/erikau/Photo20on202015-07-0320at2007.27202_zpshbqi5rrx.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/erikau/media/Photo20on202015-07-0320at2007.27202_zpshbqi5rrx.jpg.html)[/IMG] [IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/erikau/Photo20on202015-07-0220at2016.07_zps2qtcvwgu.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/erikau/media/Photo20on202015-07-0220at2016.07_zps2qtcvwgu.jpg.html)

[meteor]

Sarahlabyrinth, thank you so very much for that awesome video! :flowers:

Thank you for tackling this complex-looking knot and Yay, mystery solved!

By the way, it's a lot easier than what I thought it would be. For some reason, I expected a third loop to be somehow formed in the pictorial at the last stage, but yeah, it looks completely unnecessary! :applause


I just looked up the instructions on how to do a celtic bun correctly (I seem to be one of the few video that prefers instructions and pictures over video tutorials. And guess what I actually changed a step, when I normally do it)http://100-hairstyles.freidenkerin.de/index.php?/archives/25-19-Celtic-Bun-Keltischer-Knoten.html
And you are correct, it's the same as a celtic bun. And according to this tutorial the celtic bun is a slip knot , who knew!(not me that is for sure)
The difference is that the strands are twisted and instead of not fully pulling the second loop through the first in the celtic, in the Siberian knot you hold the end and pull the second loop, hereby tightening the knot so it doesn't unravel and you don't need to cinnaroll the ends and pin the bun as you would with the celtic.
It really looks more complicated than it actually is .

:agree: Wow, yes, looking at Sarahlabyrinth's video, it seems like it's much easier than what the pictorial makes it look like. It's just a Celtic Knot bun with the second loop made loose enough to hang down. :applause


Here's my video of how I do it :)

https://youtu.be/IRtVDThl5gY

What a great video, Sarahlabyrinth! You are awesome! :flowers:

I'll definitely try it when I can make the second loop loose enough (might need some more length).


Well it looks ok on me with a paranda, here ya go -

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3330.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3328.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh582/Sarahlabyrinth/DSCF3348.jpg



YAY that we figured out how to do it!

Yay! It looks amazing with a paranda! The contrast in color between your silky mane and the blue yarn make the twisting really visible and so cool-looking! :applause Great stuff!!

[meteor]

Great job, Sarahlabyrinth, I think you've nailed it.

My guess is that the originals were probably heavily pomaded to help everything stay twisted and in place.

Here are my two attempts from the other day. The braided version was easier to do but harder to get tight enough: http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/erikau/Photo20on202015-07-0320at2007.27202_zpshbqi5rrx.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/erikau/media/Photo20on202015-07-0320at2007.27202_zpshbqi5rrx.jpg.html)[/IMG] [IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/erikau/Photo20on202015-07-0220at2016.07_zps2qtcvwgu.jpg (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/erikau/media/Photo20on202015-07-0220at2016.07_zps2qtcvwgu.jpg.html)

Wow! Looks great!!! :applause Thanks so much for sharing, rusika1! :flowers: How awesome! :D
Is it easier to do with a braid than a twist? :)

[Sarahlabyrinth]

Wow! Looks great!!! :applause Thanks so much for sharing, rusika1! :flowers: How awesome! :D
Is it easier to do with a braid than a twist? :)

It is easier to do with a braid - as long as you can braid of course :p plus with the braid it has more wow factor, I think. Awesome hair, Ruiska1! :)

[rusika1]

It is easier to do with a braid - as long as you can braid of course :p plus with the braid it has more wow factor, I think. Awesome hair, Ruiska1! :)

What a sweet thing to say!:flower:

Yes, the braided version (my first try) was much easier, trying to keep the twist from unraveling in the second attempt made it a little more challenging. I'm kind of bun-impaired though. For some reason, the loopy bit in the twisted version is reminding me of an '80's side-ponytail.

[Night_Kitten]

Here is my attempt at the Suebian knot (didn't braid, just twisted the hair like Sarahlabyrinth in her video tutorial)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18029&d=1436113265
Mine looks so puny in comparison, and the loop is tiny - I was surprised at how much length the knot "eats up"...
The bun is held with 3 U-shaped pins (haven't got my hands on spin-pins yet unfortunately)

Then I tried "putting up" the loop with a stick (and removed the U-pins as the stick held it very firmly)
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18030&d=1436113531
I like that version a lot - holds very well with a single stick and stayed put without me having to re-do it :)

After a while it hit me that just like was mentioned earlier in this thread, the end result of the version with the stick is very similar if not identical to a Celtic knot bun (which I previously failed at), so I tried doing a "proper" Celtic knot and ta-da - success! :D
Maybe my hair was too short when I tried to learn it the first time (was around tailbone back then and now I'm almost classic) or maybe I simply got more bunning skills now, either way I'm happy - another great go-to bun in the arsenal :)

[meteor]

^ Night_Kitten, Gorgeous updos! :thud: Thank you so much for sharing! :flowers:
And thank you for explaining the details of how you got there ... makes me feel OK that my hair is still too short for this, somehow. I'll wait patiently till I can do this! :meditate: :D

[Night_Kitten]

Thank you for the compliment meteor :D

[Dragon Faery]

Yay! You figured it out! I'm sorry I never got around to making that video ... my family was here for a week and using the room I film in. Plus the house was chaos. But SarahLabyrinth made the exact video I would have made, only better, so hooray! Excellent video, and I love how that looks with a paranda! Going to have to try that sometime this week. :)