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Wiggy Stardust
June 21st, 2015, 11:32 AM
I recently grew my hair from a pixie to what is now APL. I'm obviously gonna keep going with the growth, otherwise I'd be dwelling in some other corner of the internet. During my growth journey, I kept things dye-free so I've got all virgin hair. My hair is reasonably soft, so naturally this meant avoiding conditioners because for the most part they were unnecessary on chin length and shorter hair.

On the other side of the spectrum, I was also going through an acne journey. Since quitting dyes and growing it out, my skin cleared up! It was pretty great. A part of that included skipping ingredients called fatty alcohols (cetyl alcohol and stearyl alcohol most commonly) from my moisturizer routine. Fatty alcohols are only problematic for a small portion of the population, and there's not much research to back up this sensitivity. I'm not here to argue their safety, all I know is that being exposed to them will lead to acne the day after, and my routine doesn't change.

Anyway, since my hair has approached shoulder, I've noticed more breakouts. I started reading my hair stuff, and every conditioner I find is full of fatty alcohols. Even after googling, I find that the only conditioners missing fatty alcohols are VERY obscure and hard to track down in Canada, where I live. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not going to spend 25 dollars including shipping for a 500mL conditioner. Even conditioners that appear FA free contain something called "emulsifying wax" which is... You guessed it. I've gone so far as to Google a few hippy dippy brands on Etsy, and even Nightblooming's hair salves have FAs. This is how prevalent they are... And I don't mind that at all, because it's a great ingredient for the vast majority, just a major annoyance to me!

I'm curious on how I can condition in alternative ways. I've used oils in the past, but usually in conjunction to conditioner. Can they successfully replace conditioners? Can a butter? I want long hair and clear skin, but will sadly choose my skin if I have to. :(

elsieivy
June 21st, 2015, 11:57 AM
In addition to oils and butters you might try teas. A lot of people find that catnip tea helps condition and prevent splits. Vinegar is another product that is supposed to be helpful as a conditioner. (Make sure you dilute it.)

ilovemocacoffee
June 21st, 2015, 11:57 AM
have you tried diluted apple cider vinegar. i cannot praise it enough. when i ditched conditioner and started using vinegar rinses after shampooing on my hair it left my hair so soft and shiny it was unbelievable. it even let my natural waves come out in my hair. so i read the other benefits of using vinegar, and found out that using it on your face clears acne scars, blemishes and unclogs pores. it was quite painfull, only a little but it certainly does what it says, and it's 100 percent natural and does not leave hair oily, just full of moisture with plenty of bounce and movement.

i sometimes use a combination of honey and olive oil before shampooing just on my ends, and then there's no need for conditioner. i don't use conditioner at all anymore, it just leaves my hair lank. hope that helped

Aderyn
June 21st, 2015, 11:59 AM
I have pretty sensitive, dry, acne-prone skin, so I know the feeling. I wouldn't say I break out from fatty alcohols, though, it's the other ingredients like fragrances or certain oils. Key things that have helped with keeping my skin clearer is to wear my hair up, drink lots of water and eat healthily.

Oiling might not be as great as conditioner, but there might be some leave-ins out there that don't have fatty alcohols. You can also try misting your hair with water before lightly oiling, too. I do think they can replace conditioners, you just have to put a bit of effort into it, and maybe start making your own conditioner from scratch? If you have a reliable way to cleanse your hair without being overly stripping, you can definitely try out pre-poo oil and/or deep conditioning treatments, followed up with a little bit of oiling post-wash and see how that goes. Just be cautious of build up, of course.

Maybe you could try looking into the WO (water only) or NW/SO (no water, sebum only) threads, too.

Robi-Bird
June 21st, 2015, 12:28 PM
If you break out from fatty alcohols you are more like to break out from straight oils as they are largely, although not always cosmedogoenic. That said though, if you take care, pick the right oils, you may be alright. My personal experience has not pleasant, cystic acne anyone? But of course, your mileage may very.

Magalo
June 21st, 2015, 12:46 PM
You can't. Moisture is water. Oil coat the hair (or skin or whatever) so the water doesn't evaporate, retaining moisture in. They are very different things!

cutekitty
June 21st, 2015, 12:49 PM
Do you get acne on your back or on your face?
Did you try conditioning only the ends of your hair and clipping it up before you rinse the conditioner out? That should greatly minimize contact between fatty alcohols and your skin. Make sure you rinse your back very well and wash your hands with soap before touching your face. (I'm sorry if this is too obvious :eek:)

lapushka
June 21st, 2015, 12:51 PM
Pre-pooing with a good oil might be the solution. It will beat conditioner. You only have to experiment a bit with the amount of oil you can wash out in one go, but will still leave you with soft, tangle-free hair.

meteor
June 21st, 2015, 02:24 PM
You could experiment with all-natural mixes as your pre-poo treatments, like coconut oil + shea butter, or honey + oil or plain yogurt or coconut milk or something.

And/or you could do catnip rinses or ACV/citric rinses or a HALO rinse (http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=49898) (heavily diluted honey+aloe+lemon juice+oil) and seal with a couple drops of your oil of choice as leave-in.

It's not easy as most commercial conditioners are full of fatty alcohols. :flower:

lapushka
June 21st, 2015, 02:27 PM
You could also do a regular shampoo and use the rinse-out oil method instead of conditioning. Just use more oil than recommended in the thread (10 drops). The video in the initial post will show you a rinse-out oil method with *lots* of oil (which might be a little too much), but if it has to replace conditioner, your lucky medium is somewhere between 10 drops and "a whole lotta oil". The link to the method is in my signature.

Wiggy Stardust
June 22nd, 2015, 06:50 PM
There are a lot of good suggestions here!
For those recommending Vinegar rinse... What ratio should I try first? I've never used ACV on my hair as a rinse but I'm certainly open to it because I use it for a lot of other things. Tea rinses are also an interesting thought. I wonder if Rosewater would do anything other than add fragrance.

I've done the heavy oiling rinse out thing in the past. I'd likely have to get some skin friendly oils... And I think Argan is the most common type, but so expensive. Maybe Safflower. As it is, I'm really not concerned about having hair that is too dry, my hair is not a very dry type and I minimize damage as it is. I just want it to be tangle free.

yahirwaO.o
June 22nd, 2015, 07:11 PM
Pre-pooing with a good oil might be the solution. It will beat conditioner. You only have to experiment a bit with the amount of oil you can wash out in one go, but will still leave you with soft, tangle-free hair.

Im with lapushka in this, either pre poo or rinse out. In my experience any type of oil can replace and make a better job versus regular conditioner.

My hair is nice to me because I can survive and be just fine without oil or conditioner, still Im a huge fan of pre oling next to conditoner (get my hair fully moisturized) and then continue with diluted shampoo and my hair is never weight down or dry this way and very tangle free. Sometimes I skip conditioner and it still works great!

ACV is very nice, I dont do it that often (3 times per month) but when I do it, I always have a good hair day. I just squirt a small amount in a bottle with water. Go for a tablespoon and then fill with water. Some people are bothered by the smell, it usually leaves by the time hair is fully dry really. Herb tea rinses are great too and some leave a wonderful smell.

Im sure you will get excelent results!!

Nadine <3
June 22nd, 2015, 07:30 PM
Have you tried washing and conditioning upside down so the product doesn't touch your skin?

Robi-Bird
June 22nd, 2015, 07:48 PM
The oils least likely to make you break out are Sunflower, Argan and Hemp. Interestingly enough, Shea butter is also a low risk. You mileage may very, of course but aside from mineral oil and petroleum, these are the oils that are listed as zeros on the comedogenic scale. Maybe not the oils with the most history in hair care but they may still be nice.

Wiggy Stardust
June 23rd, 2015, 07:32 PM
Have you tried washing and conditioning upside down so the product doesn't touch your skin?

I think I've tried every variation of hair washing. Upside down means my face ends up with the rinse off. If I flip it back at any point, I get backne.

Wiggy Stardust
June 23rd, 2015, 07:34 PM
The oils least likely to make you break out are Sunflower, Argan and Hemp. Interestingly enough, Shea butter is also a low risk. You mileage may very, of course but aside from mineral oil and petroleum, these are the oils that are listed as zeros on the comedogenic scale. Maybe not the oils with the most history in hair care but they may still be nice.

Argan is pretty huge in haircare right now, even if it's the silicone versions. Hemp is an option I think I'm going for. It's my current interest in OCM.

lapushka
June 24th, 2015, 02:31 PM
I think I've tried every variation of hair washing. Upside down means my face ends up with the rinse off. If I flip it back at any point, I get backne.

Over the bathtub, fully clothed as well? :)

Safira
July 1st, 2015, 05:00 AM
Have you tried cassia? Cassia treats scalp too and conditions hair. Camellia oil is also very good, light oil and not nearly as expensive as argan oil is. I guess you should try to make conditioner of your own. Thats fun too :)

renia22
July 1st, 2015, 10:08 AM
One thing you can do that's very helpful, is you can cut & paste your ingredient list into the spot that says "analyze cosmetics" on www.cosdna.com prior to buying. It will list your ingredients in a column & give you a number from 0-5 for each ingredient, 0 being least likely to cause acne, 5 most likely. It will give you some idea of what you're dealing with. I have found that website to be very helpful. Also putting hair up & washing off acne prone areas afterwards helps.

Anje
July 1st, 2015, 10:37 AM
Some people seem to be able to, though my hair loves its fatty alcohols. My ends got unhappy during my months-long water-only experiment without them, as my scalp oils couldn't be coaxed much beyond my waist. (They might do differently now -- the hair is healthier and I know it reacts differently to things like coconut oil than it did in those days.)

I recall one LHCer with nearly floor-length hair reporting that she liked conditioning with coconut milk.
Some get by pretty well with teas or acidic rinses and oils, especially applied damp. Others seem capable of getting enough moisture by damp-bunning their hair (something my scalp and hair aren't that fond of).

Clearly, people were able to grow long, gorgeous hair before the days of commercial conditioners, so it seems likely that many people can get by without fatty alcohols. You'll need to experiment, but I hope you get good results!

catasa
July 1st, 2015, 10:57 AM
If I understood correctly that your hair does quite well already without conditioner, and you are mostly looking for something to help with tangles, maybe mineral oil/baby oil as a leave in would be good to try? It is often stated as a great detangling help. I donīt have tangle-prone hair myself so I canīt testify to this myself, but I have used it as a leave in after mild shampooing, without using any other rinse out or leave in conditioner/product, and it has worked well for me for a long time. Recently I have started to feel that my hair needs something a bit more moisturizing sometimes, so now I am experimenting with olive oil as a pre-poo (on my wetted down hair, left on for about five minutes only in the shower, so no long time DT), and I have had quite good results with that. I guess that mineral oil would work as a pre-poo also, it is on my list to try in the near future :) I also plan to try to mix some honey (a humectant) into my pre-poo oil soon. My reasons for mostly wanting to avoid conditioners is partly acne/bacne but mostly that my hair gets build-up so easily, and is generally not happy with conditioners/maybe easily over-moisturized, I am not really sure...

Anyway, as others have said and you probably already know, oils are not moisturizing in themselves but help sealing moisture in, so they need to be used on wet/damp hair. For leave in, I personally spread about 2*3 drops of mineral oil on my palms and spread over and through streaming wet lengths as soon as I get out of the shower, but most people use fewer drops on damp hair instead. Mineral oil is stated as very non-allergenic and non-comedogenic, but of course everyone has to try it themselves to know. I have acne-prone skin and I also use it as a face cleanser and moisturizer (again on wet skin). I only use pure mineral oil/liquid paraffin with no other additives.

I hope you find something that works for you! :blossom:

ghost
July 1st, 2015, 12:49 PM
Possibly something like canned coconut milk/coconut cream, or full-fat yogurt? I used to do the coconut milk thing as a mask a couple times a month and really liked the results. The only caveat is that it drips everywhere even if you have your hair clipped up under a shower cap, so you'll want a towel, too. And for both the coconut milk and the yogurt, they have to be left on for a little longer than a regular conditioner.

A natural beauty recipes book I have suggests mixing jojoba oil with beer for a natural conditioner. I've never tried that so I'm not sure how it would work, although I do like beer rinses for general shine and volume :)