Semi Permanent Hair Color

[TatianaK1]

Hi all,
This is my first time posting- I searched for posts on this but nothing came up. Maybe there was a problem with the search?

I am currently coloring grays (about 10% of my hair) with semi permanent dye but I'm finding it's fading too quickly revealing the grays. I use Ion Semi Permanent 8N with 10% sensitive scalp developer from Sally's. My hair is naturally about a 6 but Ion's 7 even seems very dark.

Perhaps I just need to go to 20% developer but I am concerned that it will damage my hair because it is already breaking easily. I am in my early 40s and I think I'm fighting a losing battle to keep my longish hair, so the less damaging the better!

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
Tatiana

[Rhoward]

Hi

I assume you mean 10 Volume developer (3%, deposit only no lift), and are thinking of going to 20 Volume developer (this is most commonly used to cover grey hair and is 6%). 30 Volume is 9% and 40 volume is 12%. The higher the volume, the more lift and therefore more damage.

If you are naturally close to a level 6 and you are using an 8N with 10 volume, its not going to do much, you're basically trying to go lighter with a developer that gives you no lift. If you change to a 20 volume developer you are going to create lift and your hair will go lighter, well the roots will because tint can't lift tint, so the length will be darker.

What colour do you want your hair?

I'd suggest getting both a level 6N and a 7N, use half of each and mix it with 10 volume developer (3%) but at 1:1.5 instead of 1:1 (e.g. 10g 6N, 10g 7N and 30g 10 Volume developer, make sure you use scales, don't guess) leave it on 10-15 minutes longer than suggested to ensure your greys get covered.

Good luck hope I helped!

PS Try Wella's Demi instead of Ion, its a true to swatch colour range, very trustworthy.

http://www.sallybeauty.com/charm-demi-color/WELLA10,default,pd.html#start=42&sz=12&viewAllProducts=true

[Stellaaa]

In my experience, anything that uses developer will eventually weaken and damage and lead to breakage. After losing about an inch of ponytail circumference (about 1/3 of my hair!) I've switch to deposit-only semi's, with even less staying power than the 10 volume demi's. But I find that my roots grow out as fast as my hair fades anyway, so I'm only dying slightly more often than I did (once a month instead once every 6 weeks).

I think you are right to be concerned about going to a stronger developer. Like I said, IME, it will lead to more breakage. And you still have to dye your roots every month or two. Maintaining long dyed-over-grey hair is a bit of a challenge.

[meteor]

Hi all,
This is my first time posting- I searched for posts on this but nothing came up. Maybe there was a problem with the search?

I am currently coloring grays (about 10% of my hair) with semi permanent dye but I'm finding it's fading too quickly revealing the grays. I use Ion Semi Permanent 8N with 10% sensitive scalp developer from Sally's. My hair is naturally about a 6 but Ion's 7 even seems very dark.

Perhaps I just need to go to 20% developer but I am concerned that it will damage my hair because it is already breaking easily. I am in my early 40s and I think I'm fighting a losing battle to keep my longish hair, so the less damaging the better!

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
Tatiana

If the hair is very fragile and you want to avoid damage, it's best to use something without developer (peroxide). So maybe there are some deposit-only (non-damaging) dyes that can be an option for you? The problem with them is that they fade relatively fast and they may not be strong enough to cover the greys, but I'd try a few of those deposit-only dyes before considering anything more permanent.

[pastina]

honestly, true semi permanent colors have always lasted longer than similar shades in permanents, in my experience-- especially reds! :twocents:

[TatianaK1]

Hi

I assume you mean 10 Volume developer (3%, deposit only no lift), and are thinking of going to 20 Volume developer (this is most commonly used to cover grey hair and is 6%). 30 Volume is 9% and 40 volume is 12%. The higher the volume, the more lift and therefore more damage.

If you are naturally close to a level 6 and you are using an 8N with 10 volume, its not going to do much, you're basically trying to go lighter with a developer that gives you no lift. If you change to a 20 volume developer you are going to create lift and your hair will go lighter, well the roots will because tint can't lift tint, so the length will be darker.

What colour do you want your hair?

I'd suggest getting both a level 6N and a 7N, use half of each and mix it with 10 volume developer (3%) but at 1:1.5 instead of 1:1 (e.g. 10g 6N, 10g 7N and 30g 10 Volume developer, make sure you use scales, don't guess) leave it on 10-15 minutes longer than suggested to ensure your greys get covered.

Good luck hope I helped!

PS Try Wella's Demi instead of Ion, its a true to swatch colour range, very trustworthy.

http://www.sallybeauty.com/charm-demi-color/WELLA10,default,pd.html#start=42&sz=12&viewAllProducts=true



This is so much information- thank you so much. Yes, I did mean 10 volume developer. I do like my hair to be slightly lighter than my natural color. I will try what you suggest- 1.5 developer and I will report back. I will also try Wella - is demi less damaging than semi? I thought the reverse so had gone with semi. I am in no way a hair scientist so this is me diagnosing and prescribing things for my hair via internet. Yes, would like something that is closer to the swatch- again I find the Ion a lot darker. I will try wella 7N first and see what happened- I am just dying my roots each time so it's not a lot either way.


I really appreciate the suggestions.

[TatianaK1]

honestly, true semi permanent colors have always lasted longer than similar shades in permanents, in my experience-- especially reds! :twocents:

Yes red fades so fast- if I wasn't more interested in saving my hair than the color, I would go to permanent. I use neutral shades (7N, 8N) and they actually have some red in them and it's enough for me. But yes anything more vibrant wouldn't work in a semi-permanent.

[TatianaK1]

If the hair is very fragile and you want to avoid damage, it's best to use something without developer (peroxide). So maybe there are some deposit-only (non-damaging) dyes that can be an option for you? The problem with them is that they fade relatively fast and they may not be strong enough to cover the greys, but I'd try a few of those deposit-only dyes before considering anything more permanent.


Yes- you are right, but I am so scared of the experiment process. If you've heard anything good about particular deposit only, please let me know. I have done so much experimenting to get to this point that I'm scared of starting over with deposit only unless recommended!

[pastina]

no. im saying semi permanents last longer.

[TatianaK1]

In my experience, anything that uses developer will eventually weaken and damage and lead to breakage. After losing about an inch of ponytail circumference (about 1/3 of my hair!) I've switch to deposit-only semi's, with even less staying power than the 10 volume demi's. But I find that my roots grow out as fast as my hair fades anyway, so I'm only dying slightly more often than I did (once a month instead once every 6 weeks).

I think you are right to be concerned about going to a stronger developer. Like I said, IME, it will lead to more breakage. And you still have to dye your roots every month or two. Maintaining long dyed-over-grey hair is a bit of a challenge.

In case you see this- what is the difference between a deposit only semi vs a semi-permanent with 10 vol developer? I think that might be deposit only too... Thank you for validating that it is a challenge- it definitely is! I am still resisting cutting my hair short but if I can't find a long term solution, that just may happen. :(
Thanks for your response.

[TatianaK1]

no. im saying semi permanents last longer.

Oh wow- that's good for me then because I think permanent would be more damaging, so I'm glad these are less damaging and less fading. Thanks for the response!

[pastina]

there is no peroxide in veggie dyes (true semis). peroxide forces open the cuticle.

[Rhoward]

This is so much information- thank you so much. Yes, I did mean 10 volume developer. I do like my hair to be slightly lighter than my natural color. I will try what you suggest- 1.5 developer and I will report back. I will also try Wella - is demi less damaging than semi? I thought the reverse so had gone with semi. I am in no way a hair scientist so this is me diagnosing and prescribing things for my hair via internet. Yes, would like something that is closer to the swatch- again I find the Ion a lot darker. I will try wella 7N first and see what happened- I am just dying my roots each time so it's not a lot either way.


I really appreciate the suggestions.

Hi lovely, Demi and Semi are not the same things. A true Semi isn't mixed with anything - like manic panic etc, Demi colours are mixed with low level peroxide so they do open the cuticle but not a great deal, just enough to get some colour in. Semi is the least damaging due to no peroxide, Demi is more damaging because it does contain peroxide and permanent is the most damaging and there is usually ammonia in the colour plus you're using high levels of peroxide.
Try the 7N and see if you are happy with the results, if you want it darker slowly add in 6N (like 3/4 7N and 1/4 6N), it's always easier to go darker and a total pain in the ass to go lighter! Do make sure you only dye the roots, if you want to "refresh the ends" save a little bit of the colour mix in the bowl and add some shampoo and water and put this through the length and ends of your hair (spray hair with a water bottle so its slightly damp first) for the last 5 minutes. Mixing the developer at 1.5 will help the colour hold for longer.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out. :)

[Mountaingrrl]

I recommend adding a color-depositing conditioner to your regimen. They won't lift but they're a great way to add gloss, extend your color and add different tones like red if you want that.

[Stellaaa]

In case you see this- what is the difference between a deposit only semi vs a semi-permanent with 10 vol developer? I think that might be deposit only too... Thank you for validating that it is a challenge- it definitely is! I am still resisting cutting my hair short but if I can't find a long term solution, that just may happen. :(
Thanks for your response.

It's just terminology and it's changeable.
When we say "semi" on this forum, we almost always are referring to something with NO developer, but since you used the term semi to refer to a dye with developer, I used the term semi too.

Generally, the terms go like this:
permanent - high level of developer, lots of staying power, lots of damage
demi permanent - low level of developer, fair degree of staying power (some colours fade very quickly, some NEVER go away), a little damage (but it accumulates on LONG hair)
semi permanent - NO developer, highly varied in staying power, little to no damage, also called "deposit-only"
temporary - spray on, paint on, or wash in, rinse out, supposed to last one washing

It gets confusing because the terms semi and demi don't have any real official meaning and so companies and stylists are free to call one the other. For example, Clairol calls it's Natural Instincts box dye "semi-permanent hair colour", but it's not, it's a demi, in that it uses developer, KWIM?

I've had increasingly white hair for almost 20 years now and I've tried all the different ways to dye it and IME, if you want really long (TBL+) thick healthy coloured hair then semis (or henna - the most permanent of all) are the only way to go. And by semis I mean deposit only, no developer, semis, not mis-named demis, whether its Manic Panic or Sally's or something else.

I use this one (http://www.sallybeauty.com/ion-hair-color/ION90,default,pd.html#start=4) in light warm brown. It washes out in about 5-6 shampoos, but since I only wash my hair once a week or so, that means 5-6 weeks by which point my white roots are over 1/2" long and I really need to dye it anyway, and would no matter what kind of colour I used.

So, to reiterate - there is NO such thing as as semi-permanent dye with 10 vol developer - that is demi permanent. Any developer means it's not deposit only. Any at all, no matter how low a volume.
But its just a terminology and we shouldn't get too hung up on the semi/demi thing since it doesn't mean anything to the cosmetics industry.

My experience of having long hair from the age of 20 until now (55) is that you cannot use developer on long long hair and not have it bite you in the bum somehow. Low level developers will accumulate colour changes and damage every month when you hide your roots. Eventually the hair over my ears went black from dye build up, because it grows slower than the rest of my hair. And then when you strip away all that dye, you will find your grey is stained a brassy red and your brown has lifted to a brassy red. Well, I did anyway. I very strongly recommend against demis and advocate in favour of semis. Down with developer!


One more thing, though. You can't go lighter, sorry. Not without the dreaded developer. But if you hang in there, your hair will go lighter all by itself (mine is sure getting whiter).

[TatianaK1]

It's just terminology and it's changeable.
When we say "semi" on this forum, we almost always are referring to something with NO developer, but since you used the term semi to refer to a dye with developer, I used the term semi too.

Generally, the terms go like this:
permanent - high level of developer, lots of staying power, lots of damage
demi permanent - low level of developer, fair degree of staying power (some colours fade very quickly, some NEVER go away), a little damage (but it accumulates on LONG hair)
semi permanent - NO developer, highly varied in staying power, little to no damage, also called "deposit-only"
temporary - spray on, paint on, or wash in, rinse out, supposed to last one washing

It gets confusing because the terms semi and demi don't have any real official meaning and so companies and stylists are free to call one the other. For example, Clairol calls it's Natural Instincts box dye "semi-permanent hair colour", but it's not, it's a demi, in that it uses developer, KWIM?

I've had increasingly white hair for almost 20 years now and I've tried all the different ways to dye it and IME, if you want really long (TBL+) thick healthy coloured hair then semis (or henna - the most permanent of all) are the only way to go. And by semis I mean deposit only, no developer, semis, not mis-named demis, whether its Manic Panic or Sally's or something else.

I use this one (http://www.sallybeauty.com/ion-hair-color/ION90,default,pd.html#start=4) in light warm brown. It washes out in about 5-6 shampoos, but since I only wash my hair once a week or so, that means 5-6 weeks by which point my white roots are over 1/2" long and I really need to dye it anyway, and would no matter what kind of colour I used.

So, to reiterate - there is NO such thing as as semi-permanent dye with 10 vol developer - that is demi permanent. Any developer means it's not deposit only. Any at all, no matter how low a volume.
But its just a terminology and we shouldn't get too hung up on the semi/demi thing since it doesn't mean anything to the cosmetics industry.

My experience of having long hair from the age of 20 until now (55) is that you cannot use developer on long long hair and not have it bite you in the bum somehow. Low level developers will accumulate colour changes and damage every month when you hide your roots. Eventually the hair over my ears went black from dye build up, because it grows slower than the rest of my hair. And then when you strip away all that dye, you will find your grey is stained a brassy red and your brown has lifted to a brassy red. Well, I did anyway. I very strongly recommend against demis and advocate in favour of semis. Down with developer!


One more thing, though. You can't go lighter, sorry. Not without the dreaded developer. But if you hang in there, your hair will go lighter all by itself (mine is sure getting whiter).

This is EXTREMELY helpful- thanks to you and some other posters (RHoward) I finally understand what this means. I still have a lot of not grey hair that is dark and I don't think darker would be wise... I will experiment with true semi once at least and see what color I get. Otherwise I might continue using just 10 with the demi and accept that it's messing up my hair...


I really appreciate all the posts- the bottom line seems to be that there is no magic bullet. Dying long grey hair without damage is very difficult!


If anyone else has other true semi products to recommend, let me know! Thanks again to everyone who responded.

[meteor]

It's just terminology and it's changeable.
When we say "semi" on this forum, we almost always are referring to something with NO developer, but since you used the term semi to refer to a dye with developer, I used the term semi too.

Generally, the terms go like this:
permanent - high level of developer, lots of staying power, lots of damage
demi permanent - low level of developer, fair degree of staying power (some colours fade very quickly, some NEVER go away), a little damage (but it accumulates on LONG hair)
semi permanent - NO developer, highly varied in staying power, little to no damage, also called "deposit-only"
temporary - spray on, paint on, or wash in, rinse out, supposed to last one washing

It gets confusing because the terms semi and demi don't have any real official meaning and so companies and stylists are free to call one the other. For example, Clairol calls it's Natural Instincts box dye "semi-permanent hair colour", but it's not, it's a demi, in that it uses developer, KWIM?

I've had increasingly white hair for almost 20 years now and I've tried all the different ways to dye it and IME, if you want really long (TBL+) thick healthy coloured hair then semis (or henna - the most permanent of all) are the only way to go. And by semis I mean deposit only, no developer, semis, not mis-named demis, whether its Manic Panic or Sally's or something else.

I use this one (http://www.sallybeauty.com/ion-hair-color/ION90,default,pd.html#start=4) in light warm brown. It washes out in about 5-6 shampoos, but since I only wash my hair once a week or so, that means 5-6 weeks by which point my white roots are over 1/2" long and I really need to dye it anyway, and would no matter what kind of colour I used.

So, to reiterate - there is NO such thing as as semi-permanent dye with 10 vol developer - that is demi permanent. Any developer means it's not deposit only. Any at all, no matter how low a volume.
But its just a terminology and we shouldn't get too hung up on the semi/demi thing since it doesn't mean anything to the cosmetics industry.

My experience of having long hair from the age of 20 until now (55) is that you cannot use developer on long long hair and not have it bite you in the bum somehow. Low level developers will accumulate colour changes and damage every month when you hide your roots. Eventually the hair over my ears went black from dye build up, because it grows slower than the rest of my hair. And then when you strip away all that dye, you will find your grey is stained a brassy red and your brown has lifted to a brassy red. Well, I did anyway. I very strongly recommend against demis and advocate in favour of semis. Down with developer!


One more thing, though. You can't go lighter, sorry. Not without the dreaded developer. But if you hang in there, your hair will go lighter all by itself (mine is sure getting whiter).

This post should be stickied! :rockerdud Super-useful info, Stellaaa! :applause

I agree the semi-/demi- thing gets confusing with so many formulations and without real official definitions (and they can translate differently in different languages, too) and companies have so much freedom on how exactly to call their products... I think, when shopping for less-damaging dyes, it's worth researching each product individually, possibly after screening for a few factors: e.g. no-developer, no-ammonia and then drill down further from there. :hmm:

[Komao]

I recommend adding a color-depositing conditioner to your regimen. They won't lift but they're a great way to add gloss, extend your color and add different tones like red if you want that.

Do you have a brand that you would recommend? :)

[yahirwaO.o]

It's just terminology and it's changeable.
When we say "semi" on this forum, we almost always are referring to something with NO developer, but since you used the term semi to refer to a dye with developer, I used the term semi too.

Generally, the terms go like this:
permanent - high level of developer, lots of staying power, lots of damage
demi permanent - low level of developer, fair degree of staying power (some colours fade very quickly, some NEVER go away), a little damage (but it accumulates on LONG hair)
semi permanent - NO developer, highly varied in staying power, little to no damage, also called "deposit-only"
temporary - spray on, paint on, or wash in, rinse out, supposed to last one washing

It gets confusing because the terms semi and demi don't have any real official meaning and so companies and stylists are free to call one the other. For example, Clairol calls it's Natural Instincts box dye "semi-permanent hair colour", but it's not, it's a demi, in that it uses developer, KWIM?

I've had increasingly white hair for almost 20 years now and I've tried all the different ways to dye it and IME, if you want really long (TBL+) thick healthy coloured hair then semis (or henna - the most permanent of all) are the only way to go. And by semis I mean deposit only, no developer, semis, not mis-named demis, whether its Manic Panic or Sally's or something else.

I use this one (http://www.sallybeauty.com/ion-hair-color/ION90,default,pd.html#start=4) in light warm brown. It washes out in about 5-6 shampoos, but since I only wash my hair once a week or so, that means 5-6 weeks by which point my white roots are over 1/2" long and I really need to dye it anyway, and would no matter what kind of colour I used.

So, to reiterate - there is NO such thing as as semi-permanent dye with 10 vol developer - that is demi permanent. Any developer means it's not deposit only. Any at all, no matter how low a volume.
But its just a terminology and we shouldn't get too hung up on the semi/demi thing since it doesn't mean anything to the cosmetics industry.

My experience of having long hair from the age of 20 until now (55) is that you cannot use developer on long long hair and not have it bite you in the bum somehow. Low level developers will accumulate colour changes and damage every month when you hide your roots. Eventually the hair over my ears went black from dye build up, because it grows slower than the rest of my hair. And then when you strip away all that dye, you will find your grey is stained a brassy red and your brown has lifted to a brassy red. Well, I did anyway. I very strongly recommend against demis and advocate in favour of semis. Down with developer!


One more thing, though. You can't go lighter, sorry. Not without the dreaded developer. But if you hang in there, your hair will go lighter all by itself (mine is sure getting whiter).

Your post has opened my eyes. Yes it should be put somewhere else here, so people can see this detailed information!!!!