Going crazy trying to do a bun!

[Ilenora]

Stupid, isn't it? I look at photos of all the lovely folks here and there are buns left, right and centre. You make them look so easy! I've watched the videos and I've been trying to do a bun every night for days. I've tried a cinnabun, lazy wrap and nautilus but the nautilus is the only one I've had any success with. I think I've almost figured out how to get it to work but I'm stumped at the stick part.
How do you make the bun hold against the head? My one is always sort of loose - it stays in place but it is floppy, like you can just pick the bun up, it is not flat against the head. My sister and mother insist that you put the stick in downwards so that it grabs scalp hair and then go through the bun, but in videos like Torrin's, the stick goes out and then through and doesn't look like it grabs any scalp hair. Which is right? How the heck do I get a firm bun?

[Linguaphilia]

It just looks as if it doesn't grab scalp hair; that is due to years of practice. In the early stages of hairstick-bun-making, the movements are pretty obvious, and after a while, it's so fluent that you can't recognise the separate steps. Your sister and mother are right. Grabbing scalp hair also means the bun won't be floppy and will stay flat to the head.
That said, I have some trouble with hairstick buns myself, they tend to come apart after an hour or so, but that's because I have very slippery hair. I have had more luck with using two hairsticks.

[rhosyn_du]

There are a few different ways to get a stick to hold a bun. The one that works best for me is to start out inserting the stick at about a 45-degree angle from the scalp and pointed away from the direction you want the stick to eventually be facing. For example, if you are inserting a stick from the right side of a bun to the left, start out with the stick going through the right side of the bun and the point angled toward the right. When the stick reaches the scalp, angle the point inward toward the scalp, picking up scalp hair, until the stick is pointed toward where you want it to exit the bun (in our example bun, the stick would now be pointing left, toward the far side of the bun). Push the stick through the bun.

[Larki]

I know the feeling! I've been here for more than a year now and I still only know two buns. :p It's so difficult! But yes, you are supposed to grab some scalp hair with the stick. That's what keeps it up.

[Arctic]

Like others have said, yes you need to pick both scalp hair and bun hair, kind of weave or zigzag the sticks/forks in.

You might have better luck using 2 sticks or forks, by the way. Spin pins are also nice! you can use them with stick(s) and fork.

[Agnes Hannah]

Hi I have a similar problem with sticks, it is only recently I have made them work, but I help them along with pins. I also like forks, 4 prongs are best for my fine hair and they hold all day. Good luck finding what works for you

[Ephemia]

Don't you bun-masters all worry about breakage when you put a stick or whatever in? It would be likely to be close to the scalp, as well, which means if your hair's very long then that strand has a heck of a way to go to rejoin the others. And if you're doing that every day... *shudder* Is there a way of stopping that? Or am I insane for even worrying about it?

[Arctic]

Don't you bun-masters all worry about breakage when you put a stick or whatever in? It would be likely to be close to the scalp, as well, which means if your hair's very long then that strand has a heck of a way to go to rejoin the others. And if you're doing that every day... *shudder* Is there a way of stopping that? Or am I insane for even worrying about it?

Sorry, I don't understand the bolded part.

To answer the first questions, when the stick and forks have tines that are shaped correctly ("aerodynamic", if you will) and if they are smooth, they do not break hairs. Ofcourse as with everything long hair related, you need to be gentle and careful when inserting them.

[Arien]

On a cinnabun I go into the bun on one side with the stick, then push the tip of the stick back on itself before pushing it back into the forward position again, going under the scalp hair in the process to grab some. I then thread the whole stick through the rest of the bun to the other side. Does that make any sense? In, back, under and forward, through.

Sorry, it's a little hard to explain what I mean.

It holds really steady like this. I even managed to do this the other day for the first time since I cut my hair. It's just about grown long enough to bun & stick on second day hair.

[velorutionista]

It might help to use a hair elastic to learn the movements (it helped me at any rate)...If you gather your hair into a loose pony before you wind up the bun, then you can use the ponytail holder to mimic grabbing scalp hair (it'll also add stability, which helps when you're learning!)

...So for example, I'd make a bun with the pony in the center(this worked best with center held buns like a lazy wrap or loose nautilus), then insert the stick into the outermost loop of the bun at maybe a 10 degree angle to the back of my head...scoop the tip of the stick under the ponytail holder/elastic (this is getting your scalp hairs), then out underneath the pony holder and angled away through the opposite outermost loop of the bun at a similar angle to what you inserted at the to. If it was too hard to get the stick through using that motion, I'd make the bun & pony looser till it worked.

Hopefully that might help? Anyway, because I'm at lunch and easily entertained by sketching rough diagrams, you get a rough diagram! (This works for either top-down insertion or side-to-side)...Once the stick is in (assuming it's straight and not a pronounced curve), it pulls the outer loops back toward your head and pushes the ponytail holder out away from your head slightly (this is where you may need to loosen things up a bit for comfort).

Once I had the general motion down, it was pretty easy to skip the pony step.

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx125/velorutionista/Hair%20for%20LHC%20posts/IMG_20150511_124359_zps2kwz5ytr.jpg

[Komao]

There are a few different ways to get a stick to hold a bun. The one that works best for me is to start out inserting the stick at about a 45-degree angle from the scalp and pointed away from the direction you want the stick to eventually be facing. For example, if you are inserting a stick from the right side of a bun to the left, start out with the stick going through the right side of the bun and the point angled toward the right. When the stick reaches the scalp, angle the point inward toward the scalp, picking up scalp hair, until the stick is pointed toward where you want it to exit the bun (in our example bun, the stick would now be pointing left, toward the far side of the bun). Push the stick through the bun.

This exactly. Works for me every time! :o

[EdG]

Half a year ago, I couldn't make a bun hold for more than 30 seconds. Now, I can make a bun that stays up all day.

There are two tricks to getting a cinnabun to hold: the twist and the stick placement.

The hair has to be twisted, first around the base. One holds the hair as though one were making a ponytail, but instead of an elastic, one puts a twist at the base. Ths keeps the bun in place. The length of the hair is then gently twisted and coiled around itself.

I insert the sticks pointing towards the scalp. They go under the initial twist at the base, and then up through the coils on the opposite side (like in velorutionista's diagram). I use two sticks, always parallel (crossed sticks are uncomfortable and more likely to rotate).

I hope this helps! Bun-making is a skill. :)
Ed

[Ilenora]

Thanks so much guys! I think I've almost got it. I tried a few times last night and managed to get a nautilus that was mostly firm! Unfortunately it was bed time so no one even got to see it XD

I did accidentally snap a paintbrush by trying to do the bending motion where you go out and then in - my hair is so thick and I guess I put just a bit too much force on it... ^^;

velorutionista, your diagram is very helpful! I'll be trying the ponytail trick tonight!

[Ilenora]

EdG, I have a lot of trouble with the twisting of cinnabuns. My hair is floofy and if I let it go at any point during the wrapping (which is needed, because you have to switch your hand from above the bun to below the bun to grab it and continue wrapping) the twist completely untwists and I lose all the tension, so the bun ends up too loose.

[EdG]

Ilenora - your hair must be much more slippery than mine. I find that as long as I hold the cinnabun with one hand and use the other hand to do the twisting, I can let go the twisting hand and pick up on the other side without losing too much of the existing twist.
Ed

[Betazed]

I sympathize with you! I just recently got my first pair of hair sticks and I've been trying for days to learn something more than just the basic bun. The only one I've mastered thus far is the figure 8/infinity bun and, to be honest, it's pretty fool-proof! I've tried the nautilus over and over to no avail. The last step just doesn't seem to work for me. Hair frustration! :steam

[surruh]

I too sympathize! I used to not really have trouble getting sticks to stay put, but I have been growing out dye for about 2 1/2 years now. My hair must be much more slippery now, seems like any bun not secured first with a ponytail is falling out in no time at all!

[Crystawni]

I made a pictorial a while back for my baby helix bun which shows some hair twisting, and the stick going in from an angle, to scalp and through, if that helps any.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15186&d=1420958600
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15184&d=1420958513
http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15183&d=1420958354

[Ilenora]

Crystawni, that is helpful! That bun looks interesting. It seems like you don't have to let the hair go at any point to wrap it except for perhaps the last wrap, depending on length?

NicCarpenter, in my case I have to make the hole in the nautilus super big or else I can't tuck it over the rest of the hair in the last step. I kept making it too small and couldn't get it to work.

EdG, it's not because my hair is slippery (it isn't at all). It is actually stiff and thick. If you imagine getting a thin rope, twisting it will be easy - but get a huge, thick, stiff rope and twisting it is hard, and it just untwists if you let it go. My hair also has a habit of bouncy up vertically into a huge poofy mass while trying to wrap it.

[Arctic]

Maybe you could use U-shaped hair pins to secure the coils as you go. These type of pins are non-damaging and easy to use.

[Nique1202]

I sympathize with you! I just recently got my first pair of hair sticks and I've been trying for days to learn something more than just the basic bun. The only one I've mastered thus far is the figure 8/infinity bun and, to be honest, it's pretty fool-proof! I've tried the nautilus over and over to no avail. The last step just doesn't seem to work for me. Hair frustration! :steam

Try the disc bun. It gives you easy in-and-out points like the nautilus and lazy wrap, but it splits the hair in two and wraps in different directions so the bun is friendlier to thick/slippery/shorter hair and has more staying power from the tension. If your hair is on the thicker end of ii then you may not have the length for much in the way of buns. Thicker hair requires more length. If you're on the thinner end of ii, then it's just a matter of practice.