Are 4-strand braids not as sturdy?

[Nedertane]

It seems like every time I do a 4-strand braid, it slithers out of itself in a relatively short amount of time. Anyone else have this problem? I have pretty slippery hair as is, but I don't usually have this problem as much in my 3-strand braids, unless I did them loosely to being with. For what it's worth, I do have layers, and that might be part of the cause, but like I said, I don't have this problem as much in 3-strand braids.

Should I section the braid differently? Or try something else?

[Anje]

I can't say for sure, but which type of 4-stranded braid are you doing? A flat one or a box braid? I was under the impression that box braids were very sturdy, but I dislike them because they take FOREVER to do.

[Nedertane]

I can't say for sure, but which type of 4-stranded braid are you doing? A flat one or a box braid? I was under the impression that box braids were very sturdy, but I dislike them because they take FOREVER to do.

Er... I didn't know there were 2 types. I'm doing the version where you go over-under from the left, and then under-over from the right.

This is the tutorial I used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_S7mlC0us

[spidermom]

There are several 4-strand braids. I haven't tried that one. Some braid types are more secure, others are less so.

[Anje]

Er... I didn't know there were 2 types. I'm doing the version where you go over-under from the left, and then under-over from the right.
That's the variety I'm calling a "flat 4-strand", though there are probably other names for it. :)

The one I've heard called a box braid (but that looks like it's a term also used for the style with lots of little braids all over your head) is like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtUnLvAiGzU
Supposedly it's a really good one to use to add extension hair to, because it holds them in place well.

[meteor]

Er... I didn't know there were 2 types. I'm doing the version where you go over-under from the left, and then under-over from the right.

This is the tutorial I used.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_S7mlC0us

Interesting. In this tutorial, the weaving motion always starts on the same side and always over-under-over until the end. Is the result the same as in the tutorial you've used? Or is it a somewhat different braid? :hmm:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4P9YA6Oabg


Wow, Anje, that box braid is gorgeous but it sure looks hard to me! :bigeyes: Are all box-braids based on 4 strands and done this way?

I must admit, I find 5-strand braid way easier than 4-strand braid, because in the odd-#-stranded braids like the 5-strand braid you always do "under-over-drop" motion from each side, so there isn't a specific order to remember - just easier algorithm. 7-strand braid weaving is easy too (because it's odd-numbered), but, by then, tangling and lack of fingers start playing against us...

[gwenalyn]

I don't believe the flat 4-strand braids are inherently less sturdy, but they do need more length because each "stitch" requires more length from the strand. I'm not sure about the round braid, which I have yet to learn.

The two kinds of flat 4-strand braids are different. The one that starts on the same side every time moves each strand from left to right (if starting from the left), in order, so every strand gets actively woven across every 4 stitches. The one that alternates which side you start on only actively manipulates three strands, so one strand in the middle always stays in the same place. This is really easy to see when you use a ribbon or something for that strand: if starting from the left, make the third from the left strand the ribbon when you start. It will look something like this:

http://www.prettyhairisfun.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fourstrandbraid-with-ribbon.jpg

I found it really helpful to learn the braid this way, with a ribbon, because it was really easy to tell if something went wrong.

In theory, if you use all your own hair, that 3rd strand will end up with more tassel because it doesn't take as much length per stitch. I don't have enough length of my own yet to test this theory out, since the effect would get larger with more length; maybe someone else can try it and see.

As a kid, I had a book full of different kinds of knots and plaits that I would learn using cord, and that book claimed that the "true" 4-strand plait was the plait that always started from one side. I only mention this because it is interesting, not because I'm a purist or anything. For hair, whatever works, is easy, and is pretty is good enough for me!

[meteor]

^ What a great post, gwenalyn! :applause And yes, it makes sense that those 2 braids (woven from both sides vs. from one side only) should be different, and the latter one would end up with one strand being longer, I haven't tried 4-strand braid in ages, but I think the one I tried (second variant) was with a tassel a bit off-center/lopsided but honestly, since my arms get tired, I always tie off my braids way too early to notice anyway.
I didn't notice it being less sturdy than a 3-strand braid though... :hmm: However, all braids get messy on me quite fast (unless I pin them up). The least sturdy braid I know is a rope braid (2-strand braid) - it unravels, and I can't work with that one unless I bun it up completely.
That box braid sure looks very secure, though! :)

[Nedertane]

Interesting. In this tutorial, the weaving motion always starts on the same side and always over-under-over until the end. Is the result the same as in the tutorial you've used? Or is it a somewhat different braid? :hmm:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4P9YA6Oabg

Her end result is similar, but neither look the same on me, because I'm incompetent :p

[gwenalyn]

^ What a great post, gwenalyn! :applause And yes, it makes sense that those 2 braids (woven from both sides vs. from one side only) should be different, and the latter one would end up with one strand being longer, I haven't tried 4-strand braid in ages, but I think the one I tried (second variant) was with a tassel a bit off-center/lopsided but honestly, since my arms get tired, I always tie off my braids way too early to notice anyway.
I didn't notice it being less sturdy than a 3-strand braid though... :hmm: However, all braids get messy on me quite fast (unless I pin them up). The least sturdy braid I know is a rope braid (2-strand braid) - it unravels, and I can't work with that one unless I bun it up completely.
That box braid sure looks very secure, though! :)

Wow, thanks! I've been braiding ever since I first made challah as a young'un.

[yahirwaO.o]

On me yes, with more lenght it actually stayed a lot better!!!

[Hairkay]

I didn't know there was a box 4 strand braid. I thought there was only the flat one. I've experimented with the flat one once. It looked weird but then it would on thick curly kinky hair that's BSL :D

[schweedie]

I'm just gonna take this thread as an opportunity to ask - does anyone know if there's a trick to getting the flat, woven four-strand braid to not twist? Whenever I do one, when I'm done and let it go the braid twists the same way it does if I braid my hair after having kept it in a cinnabun long enough to get bunwaves. Which can actually look kinda cool, but sometimes I'd really like for the braid to just lie flat so that you can actually see the pattern properly.

[Arctic]

I'm just gonna take this thread as an opportunity to ask - does anyone know if there's a trick to getting the flat, woven four-strand braid to not twist? Whenever I do one, when I'm done and let it go the braid twists the same way it does if I braid my hair after having kept it in a cinnabun long enough to get bunwaves. Which can actually look kinda cool, but sometimes I'd really like for the braid to just lie flat so that you can actually see the pattern properly.

I've read this happens to flat, even strand braids, so it's not just you. Even Dreamweaver website tells that flat 4 stranders (and other even numbered flat braids) have "a design flaw" and it twists, and that she prefers odd number of strands for that reason.

http://www.dreamweaverbraiding.com/braiding_tips.htm

[Hairkay]

Hair type may have something to do with it. With my tight curls everything twists, two strand twists, twirl around in spirals, three strand plaits/braids twist or end up looking wavy or they do that twirl thing again. Having my hair in just one plait/braid does minimise this due to the thickness.

[schweedie]

I've read this happens to flat, even strand braids, so it's not just you. Even Dreamweaver website tells that flat 4 stranders (and other even numbered flat braids) have "a design flaw" and it twists, and that she prefers odd number of strands for that reason.

http://www.dreamweaverbraiding.com/braiding_tips.htm
Oh, thank you for that info! I hadn't read that. Clearly I just need to work on my 5-strand instead, then. :D Hairkay, I can imagine that having curly hair would encourage the twisting, but with my hairtype I certainly couldn't blame that, heh.