What to do about my crinkled dry ends?

[gustavonut]

Sooooo...I'm having yet another hair dilemma. I was recently playing with my hair today (just because) feeling the ends and thought they felt pretty nice..in fact they feel softer than normal. My happiness immediately FLEW away because I see damage. A LOT of damage... D: I took a shower and conditioned really well and now they feel dry and crappy...
I see crinkled pieces of hair, bent(yes literally BENT) hair, lots and lots of flyaways(I'm like a stack of hay :mad:), and white dots. :(
Right now I'm trying not to get a cut or trim because I want it to growww.. I've been in this awkward between collarbone and shoulder length stage and I'm soooo sick of it!

What shall I do?

[cat11]

I have kind of the same situation because of ends damaged from old bleach and dye. They are just... inflexible, is the best way to describe them. Keeping them consistently oiled helps. I can't imagine how they would be without protective styling, because it amazes me that even with how little I miss with them they still get slowly worse between my trims.

I would recommend a thick creamy leave in for them, like a coconut and shea mix or something similar.

This is just to prevent them from breaking and make them look a little better though. They won't really get better until you cut them off and start with undamaged hair. I'm dealing with the same thing where I have to get rid of these ends but still want my hair to grow. You have to do microtrims, trimming it only a little bit fairly often, but only a small amount so it will still continue to grow overall even though the damaged section is getting narrower.

There's a whole thread all about it you can easily find by googling "LHC microtrimming" :)

[laceyfairy]

My vote would be for a trim. Growing will happen on its own time

[lapushka]

Try and calm down, first and foremost. Then assess the damage. Are there a lot of white dots? If not, S&D should take care of them (otherwise I'd consider a trim). Don't worry about bent ends, they aren't damage. Hair lays this way today, and differently the day after. Those bent ends usually come from updos or from having had the hair in a towel, whathaveyou...

[Anje]

For me, that sort of thing is symptomatic of dry hair, or sometimes over-proteined hair. (Yeah, I harp a lot about too much protein. Most hair isn't quite so picky about it as mine seems to be. :P) Since my hair loves its humectants, I find a good soak in warm conditioner with some honey/molasses/pancake syrup mixed in to really help. (Again, because I've got this anti-protein thing happening, I suggest doing it with a protein-free conditioner. YMMV) Give your hair a clarify first if you haven't shampooed your ends in ages, then just let it soak up some conditionery goodness for 30 minutes or so, then rinse out.

You might benefit from a trim, certainly, but if the goal is to keep growing I figure it's a good idea to start with the "clarify and moisturize" routine before grabbing scissors. You might not need them. :)

[gwenalyn]

This happens to me occasionally (the bent, dry ends, not the white dots), usually after I've been experimenting with styling my hair a lot. One or two heavy pre-poo coconut oilings fix it right up. Since I wash my hair every six days, sometimes I just have to deal with it for a week or so, but it's not a terribly big deal.

[meteor]

I think it can be 2 things:

1) Ends being "set" in the shape of the bun, the way we do bun-waves/braid-waves, especially if there is any leave-in conditioner or styling gel or if you put hair up wet/damp or left it in that style for a while. If so, just re-wet hair. If there is a lot of build-up (especially from any styling products), then re-wetting it won't necessarily fix it - you may need to clarify, sometimes more than once.

2) Damaged ends being stiff, sticking out and not taking their normal shape because the integrity of the hair is compromised. I think this is particularly common for bleached or permed/relaxed ends. Then I recommend oiling your braid tassel regularly, keeping those ends well moisturized (SMTs, for example) and using protein treatments sometimes (but not too often!). Because of chipped cuticle, damaged ends tend to loose moisture a lot faster than virgin hair, so patching up porosity a bit with occlusives, like oils and silicones, and using film-forming humectants, like hydrolyzed proteins, can be quite beneficial to coat and protect those ends and give them more slip and elasticity. In a nutshell, damaged hair needs more intense conditioning and general babying.
I think there are some helpful ideas for damaged/porous hair here:
Managing Elasticity and Porosity of Hair: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html
Oil Pre-Shampoo or Pre-Wash (And how to make it work for your hair): http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html
Film-forming Humectants: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/07/film-forming-humectants-what-they-are.html
More about Proteins: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html

[FallingDarkness]

I've found this thread supppppper helpful even though my ends aren't damaged!
gustavonut, try not to worry. Microtrimming can help if the damage is too much, but it might just be for the best to trim it if it's uncorrectable. Learn to French braid so you can just put it up and forget about it?

[allycat]

My hair is like Anje's. That would most likely be protein overload for me, especially if it came on suddenly. I have gotten bent sort of L-shaped tangly ends almost overnight from accidentally using something with protein in it. Luckily it's easily corrected by a good clarify and a good soak with a moisturizing conditioner.

[endlessly]

My first bit of advice is to not panic or worry, trust me, everything will be fine. I know you're frustrated about wanting your hair to grow since it's in the "stuck" phase (trust me, been there!), but truly the only way to get rid of the damage is to cut it. Now, like lapushka mentioned, you can definitely do an S&D if you only notice a few of the white dots here and there - try not to do it all at once because from my own experience, it will make you feel slightly crazy! - but by only trimming off the very tips of the hair, you won't lose much for length, which is always a plus.

Otherwise, I'd recommend keeping your hair moisturized - do deep conditioning treatments, oils, anything to add more nutrition to your hair.

Even if your ends are damaged, your hair will continue to grow, it just might not be the healthiest while it's growing. Speaking again from personal experience, I had pretty severely damaged hair about 10 years ago - I did daily washing, heat styling, ripped through tangles, etc. - but it still grew to classic-length, it was just extremely unhealthy and thin. So, yes, it will continue to grow, you just have to determine what it is you want most: long hair or long and healthy hair.

[gustavonut]

I have kind of the same situation because of ends damaged from old bleach and dye. They are just... inflexible, is the best way to describe them. Keeping them consistently oiled helps. I can't imagine how they would be without protective styling, because it amazes me that even with how little I miss with them they still get slowly worse between my trims.

I would recommend a thick creamy leave in for them, like a coconut and shea mix or something similar.

This is just to prevent them from breaking and make them look a little better though. They won't really get better until you cut them off and start with undamaged hair. I'm dealing with the same thing where I have to get rid of these ends but still want my hair to grow. You have to do microtrims, trimming it only a little bit fairly often, but only a small amount so it will still continue to grow overall even though the damaged section is getting narrower.

There's a whole thread all about it you can easily find by googling "LHC microtrimming" :)

cat11 Yeah my hair has been bleached twice in my life.. Horrible experiences :/ and I do agree they don't flow as freely as I would want them to, and they are just DRY. The best "protective" style I can do is a peacock twist in a claw clip. Or a ponytail of course :P
I do have shea, and ideas on what I could do with it heh?
My last cut was a few months ago and I don't have good shears at the moment, any suggestions on that as well?

laceyfairy ahhhh I'm trying to avoid that if possible :/

Lapushka YES, white dots a-plenty. I noticed it today while looking at my hair in the sun. I have HORRIBLE flyaways and the very ends of my hair are very dry and thin :( I do put my hair up in a towel every time I wash...hmm...

Anje Well.. I have been using a protein shampoo.. I'm not too sure if my hair likes it or hates it xD and sad thing is I clarified on my last wash before the one today which was about 4 days ago. Maybe I didn't clarify enough?

gwenalyn I just oiled my hair up for my next wash(maybe tomorrow...we shall see.)

Meteor Wow, so much useful info..! :joy: At the moment, I can't do any buns, can't braid my own hair, and can BARELY do a peacock twist. I'll save the links for future use, thank you Meteor. :)

[gustavonut]

Found some cheap-ish scissors o: http://www.amazon.com/Utopia-Care-Professional-Adjustable-Hairstyling/dp/B008TBTAAI/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3AQP8TDYVYCGL
Whatcha say guys?

[lapushka]

Any drugstore shears will do for just S&D. I would recommend cheap "real" haircutting shears for actual trimming, though, esp. if your hair is thick. I used to have cheap drugstore shears, and my mom would always have to "saw through" my hair (because of its thickness). I got cheap real hairdresser shears (Ultron) and it just easily snips through all the hair (no sawing). Sawing means the shears aren't sharp enough.

[Anje]

Any drugstore shears will do for just S&D. I would recommend cheap "real" haircutting shears for actual trimming, though, esp. if your hair is thick. I used to have cheap drugstore shears, and my mom would always have to "saw through" my hair (because of its thickness). I got cheap real hairdresser shears (Ultron) and it just easily snips through all the hair (no sawing). Sawing means the shears aren't sharp enough.
Well, that and that you've got thick hair. :) But yeah, you should be fine with something like those.

However, I'd still suggest that you try a moisture treatment or something first. You're in that "need to gain length so you can do anything with it" zone, and you might as well see if it's fixable before cutting it off. Not to mention, if the problem IS something like protein, trimming won't solve it. Ask me how I know....

[MINAKO]

Hmm, thinking about it after using keratin treatments so often i think they might as well be done to the ends only (if what you describe is not a setting problem but indeed damage)... No im not kidding, lol. It could work depending on your hairtype and only applied to lets say the last two inches and with a bit less of an intense heat setting.
I know its a risky suggestion to make here, but looking at my own ends after having this done many many times, they hold up really well, very straight, never split, hardly ever do i find a zig zag one.


:run:

[Panth]

Anje Well.. I have been using a protein shampoo.. I'm not too sure if my hair likes it or hates it xD and sad thing is I clarified on my last wash before the one today which was about 4 days ago. Maybe I didn't clarify enough?

If it's protein overdose, clarifying won't necessarily fix it. Clarifying treatments are (because of their nature) stripping and drying. If you have a protein overdose, you need to up the moisture not dry your hair out even further.

Please, do some heavy moisturising treatments (and perhaps retire the protein-containing shampoo for a while) before resorting to scissors.

[gustavonut]

I'm going to take everybody's advice now...time to experiement! :soapbox: :brainbleach: :scissors::queen:

[Chromis]

I would not cut yet! Let it grow past the awkward stage first. I think some damage is inevitable at this shorter in-between lengths since you can't put it up and it is just the right length to be caught in necklaces and collars and scarves and whipped around by the wind. Longer at least goes over the collar instead of getting all scranuched into it when you put on a jacket or of course you can put it up when it is long enough. I always advise growing at least long enough to put it up securely and with thick hair, you will need a little more length probably even for a peacock twist.

Try the moisture and another thing to ponder is your water hardness. If you have hard water (you will know by all the white build up you get on the taps, kettles, showerhead), you might have mineral build up. In that case, I find a citric acid/ACV rinse is like magic.

[gustavonut]

I would not cut yet! Let it grow past the awkward stage first. I think some damage is inevitable at this shorter in-between lengths since you can't put it up and it is just the right length to be caught in necklaces and collars and scarves and whipped around by the wind. Longer at least goes over the collar instead of getting all scranuched into it when you put on a jacket or of course you can put it up when it is long enough. I always advise growing at least long enough to put it up securely and with thick hair, you will need a little more length probably even for a peacock twist.

Try the moisture and another thing to ponder is your water hardness. If you have hard water (you will know by all the white build up you get on the taps, kettles, showerhead), you might have mineral build up. In that case, I find a citric acid/ACV rinse is like magic.

Oh heck YES. We have extremely hard water. It sucks!! You can even smell it on our hair and it turns my hair orangish. :/
Maybe I could do a moisture treatment and ACV?

[Chromis]

Sounds like mineral buildup might be your culprit! ACV by itself can't get all of it, but it does help. You can also try club soda as a rinse.

[gustavonut]

Sounds like mineral buildup might be your culprit! ACV by itself can't get all of it, but it does help. You can also try club soda as a rinse.

Ooh, now we are DEFINITELY getting somewhere!~
I don't have any club soda but do have ACV and my clarifying shampoo(suave).
Any other suggestions to remove the minerals?

[meteor]

Oh heck YES. We have extremely hard water. It sucks!! You can even smell it on our hair and it turns my hair orangish. :/
Maybe I could do a moisture treatment and ACV?

I'd use a chelating (often marketed as "swimmers") shampoo. :flower:
Maybe something like using distilled water or the so-called Miracle Water can help you, if it's not too fussy? http://archive.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=51184

[gwenalyn]

Just remember to try new things one at a time! That way you know what to do next time.

[gustavonut]

Just remember to try new things one at a time! That way you know what to do next time.
But of course ;)

[gustavonut]

Okay people, just an update for today:
I am currently waiting for some gifts that my sweetie has purchased for me. :o
He bought me some aloe vera gel, a nice new wide tooth comb, and a (drum roll please..) ADORABELLABABY SLEEPING CAP :agape:!!!!
He is just the greatest... So so sweet and amazing! :cheer:
But anyway, hehe, I'm definitely going to be treating my hair much much better in the next upcoming weeks. I'm super excited to get this stuff. :rolling:

[lapushka]

I wouldn't worry about the white dots to an extreme degree, though. If you snip a few off, the better, but... Hey, I grew out a perm that was riddled with white dots and shoulder length all the way to hip. A number of hairs had broken off by then, but most of it was still there. It takes a lot of force for a white dot to break. If you oil it and take good care of it, it should just grow out like other hairs. After it grew to hip, my mom went in for a huge S&D session, and because I had so many white dots, my thickness was reduced in half, at the lower part of my hair. It had to be cut back all the way to BSL. All the damage was out then. But still, it grew.

[gustavonut]

I wouldn't worry about the white dots to an extreme degree, though. If you snip a few off, the better, but... Hey, I grew out a perm that was riddled with white dots and shoulder length all the way to hip. A number of hairs had broken off by then, but most of it was still there. It takes a lot of force for a white dot to break. If you oil it and take good care of it, it should just grow out like other hairs. After it grew to hip, my mom went in for a huge S&D session, and because I had so many white dots, my thickness was reduced in half, at the lower part of my hair. It had to be cut back all the way to BSL. All the damage was out then. But still, it grew.
Yeah, i wish my mom could help me with it but she is just so sick of hearing about hair, she tries to avoid it at all costs, lol. (Don't ask me why..) I will try to oil the ends more. I'm getting a silk scrunchie for my hair so hopefully that will help heh. Gosh I hope I don't have to cut it any time soon. I know some say go for it, but it's taken so long to get to shoulder length :(

[lapushka]

Yeah, i wish my mom could help me with it but she is just so sick of hearing about hair, she tries to avoid it at all costs, lol. (Don't ask me why..) I will try to oil the ends more. I'm getting a silk scrunchie for my hair so hopefully that will help heh. Gosh I hope I don't have to cut it any time soon. I know some say go for it, but it's taken so long to get to shoulder length :(

I totally understand. You could join the microtrimming thread, if that's the way you want to go about it, if you want the damage gone before growing long in a hurry. If not, it's fine also. White dots - yes - are a weakness in the strand. BUT they are not as weak as you'd think!

[pixiepaws]

I feel your pain I was brave and cut off three and a half inches taking me back to MBL instead of just over BSL . Took me months to take the plunge. I had blondish red highlights on the ends from 2011. I did search and destroy every day. But when I thought I got rid of it more white bits popped up . Some of my ends would snap off. I am glad I did cut as I finally got rid of all my layers too,a lot of the knotting as gone as well. I would try all options before cutting (if that's what you want to do in the end). I found using just a little Avocado oil helps with tangles.

[Akville]

I have a question about flax seed gel and dry ends ..
I, as many others have problems with my ends.. and now I'm in no trimming challenge..

I have very straight hair and have never used anything to "define the curls" cause I don't have any.. :D...
but I use to use serum and oils on my ends, to protect them, but it makes my hair greasy faster... I was wondering if flax seed gel could help to keep moisture inside and has anyone used it on straight hair? I don't what any sticky feeling..

[pixiepaws]

I have a question about flax seed gel and dry ends ..
I, as many others have problems with my ends.. and now I'm in no trimming challenge..

I have very straight hair and have never used anything to "define the curls" cause I don't have any.. :D...
but I use to use serum and oils on my ends, to protect them, but it makes my hair greasy faster... I was wondering if flax seed gel could help to keep moisture inside and has anyone used it on straight hair? I don't what any sticky feeling..

Have not used FLax oil is it quite heavy? all I could suggest was mixing a little with a lighter oil putting a tiny amount on the ends then brushing it all though the hair. I have Caster oil, amazing but very thick and sticky so have to mix it.

[meteor]

I have a question about flax seed gel and dry ends ..
I, as many others have problems with my ends.. and now I'm in no trimming challenge..

I have very straight hair and have never used anything to "define the curls" cause I don't have any.. :D...
but I use to use serum and oils on my ends, to protect them, but it makes my hair greasy faster... I was wondering if flax seed gel could help to keep moisture inside and has anyone used it on straight hair? I don't what any sticky feeling..

The only way to know is to try it. ;) Flaxseed gel is a film-forming humectant, so it does sort of protect the ends a bit by coating them. http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/07/film-forming-humectants-what-they-are.html I like this recipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaH8GIbLrM - but there are lots of others, too. And you can make the seeds-to-water ratio as concentrated or watery as you like. :)
It should work fine, but it really depends on your preferences, too. Some people don't like the feeling of anything on ends whatsoever.

About oils: you might want to experiment with very light ones like grapeseed or safflower or maybe baby/mineral oil (though some people do find it greasy). You could also use a light conditioner as leave-in, maybe even diluted with water, and add it to your ends either straight after wash or on dry hair. It's trial-and-error and definitely very individual. :)

[gustavonut]

Ugh guys.. This is getting way out of hand now. My hair is just breaking on the ends even if I comb gently, hair is also being pulled out without barely any force. :( I'm soooo urged to just go get it cut but I need length, dang it! D:<
Maybe after I wash my hair (Monday) and everything it will be okay. I sure hope so..:shrug:

[Arctic]

I have read the thread but now right one second ago, so please forgive me if I am repeating someone else's comments.

Have you clarified followed by intensive moisturizing?

[meteor]

Sooooo...I'm having yet another hair dilemma. I was recently playing with my hair today (just because) feeling the ends and thought they felt pretty nice..in fact they feel softer than normal. My happiness immediately FLEW away because I see damage. A LOT of damage... D: I took a shower and conditioned really well and now they feel dry and crappy...
I see crinkled pieces of hair, bent(yes literally BENT) hair, lots and lots of flyaways(I'm like a stack of hay :mad:), and white dots. :(
Right now I'm trying not to get a cut or trim because I want it to growww.. I've been in this awkward between collarbone and shoulder length stage and I'm soooo sick of it!

What shall I do?


Ugh guys.. This is getting way out of hand now. My hair is just breaking on the ends even if I comb gently, hair is also being pulled out without barely any force. :( I'm soooo urged to just go get it cut but I need length, dang it! D:<
Maybe after I wash my hair (Monday) and everything it will be okay. I sure hope so..:shrug:

OK, so this is all due to chemical damage, right? Can you please list all the chemical/thermal treatments you've done to your hair (only the hair that's still not trimmed away, obviously) so far?

When your hair is wet, is it at all gummy or unusually stretchy, like really compromised hair?

If so, and if you'd done quite a bit of damage: say, bleach, heat styling.... then may I recommend a strong protein treatment followed by a strong moisturizing one (SMT) and oils, lots of oils and silicones.
Protein treatments for consideration:
Aphogee 2-step: http://aphogee.com/two-step-protein-treatment-for-professional-use/ Super-intense, HAS to be followed up with a moisturizing treatment.
DIY Gelatin treatment: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html
(The way I like to do it is: 1 Knox pack, diluted in half-a-cup of hot water, added to half a cup of moisturizing conditioner, add a teaspoon of honey and a teaspoon of oil of choice.)
Joico K-Pak, Redken Extreme Anti-Snap Leave-in, Redken Extreme Builder Plus, etc are all good products for extremely compromised, damaged hair... and there are many others marketed for "damaged/porous/chemically processed" hair.
Obviously, sleep on silky material (cover hair with silk for the night), put hair up as much as possible, avoid any new damage...
Please remember though, that you'll still probably need to be trimming away this damage slowly, unfortunately, but good quality protein treatments and lots of oils, silicones and ceramides should help.

[gustavonut]

I have read the thread but now right one second ago, so please forgive me if I am repeating someone else's comments.

Have you clarified followed by intensive moisturizing?

I haven't clarified yet but plan on doing it on Monday when I get my aloe vera.

[gustavonut]

OK, so this is all due to chemical damage, right? Can you please list all the chemical/thermal treatments you've done to your hair (only the hair that's still not trimmed away, obviously) so far?

When your hair is wet, is it at all gummy or unusually stretchy, like really compromised hair?

If so, and if you'd done quite a bit of damage: say, bleach, heat styling.... then may I recommend a strong protein treatment followed by a strong moisturizing one (SMT) and oils, lots of oils and silicones.
Protein treatments for consideration:
Aphogee 2-step: http://aphogee.com/two-step-protein-treatment-for-professional-use/ Super-intense, HAS to be followed up with a moisturizing treatment.
DIY Gelatin treatment: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/04/gelatin-protein-treatment-recipe-update.html
(The way I like to do it is: 1 Knox pack, diluted in half-a-cup of hot water, added to half a cup of moisturizing conditioner, add a teaspoon of honey and a teaspoon of oil of choice.)
Joico K-Pak, Redken Extreme Anti-Snap Leave-in, Redken Extreme Builder Plus, etc are all good products for extremely compromised, damaged hair... and there are many others marketed for "damaged/porous/chemically processed" hair.
Obviously, sleep on silky material (cover hair with silk for the night), put hair up as much as possible, avoid any new damage...
Please remember though, that you'll still probably need to be trimming away this damage slowly, unfortunately, but good quality protein treatments and lots of oils, silicones and ceramides should help.

Two and a half years ago I got my hair "professionally" bleached at a salon. It was the longest my hair ever was (almost bra strap length.) My hair was completely fried from that.* A year ago I was using peroxide (almost every month) on my hair after it was dyed brown. I also used lemon a lot. Then I started using the John Frieda lightening spray a half a year ago for a little bit. After that I haven't done anything else. When my hair is wet it is really really piecy and unusually stretchy, and it breaks and sheds a lot in the shower.

Thank you meteor. One question: Can I clarify, protein treatment, SMT, and ACV rinse in ONE wash or how should I proceed with this?

[lapushka]

Thank you meteor. One question: Can I clarify, protein treatment, SMT, and ACV rinse in ONE wash or how should I proceed with this?

Clarifying followed by protein, followed by moisture should be enough. I'd not do the ACV on top of that.

[gustavonut]

Clarifying followed by protein, followed by moisture should be enough. I'd not do the ACV on top of that.
Ah thank you, Miss Lapushka! :flower:

[lapushka]

Ah thank you, Miss Lapushka! :flower:

You're welcome. I mean, it's what *I* would do. Maybe others can drop in with their ideas and suggestions for you. But basically following a protein treatment with moisture should be fine. The ACV on top of that... seems a bit much to me. I'd do that for a separate wash with just the moisture. Don't do protein every time you wash, unless your hair is heavily damaged and in need of it.

[Akville]

The only way to know is to try it. ;) Flaxseed gel is a film-forming humectant, so it does sort of protect the ends a bit by coating them. http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/07/film-forming-humectants-what-they-are.html I like this recipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaH8GIbLrM - but there are lots of others, too. And you can make the seeds-to-water ratio as concentrated or watery as you like. :)
It should work fine, but it really depends on your preferences, too. Some people don't like the feeling of anything on ends whatsoever.

About oils: you might want to experiment with very light ones like grapeseed or safflower or maybe baby/mineral oil (though some people do find it greasy). You could also use a light conditioner as leave-in, maybe even diluted with water, and add it to your ends either straight after wash or on dry hair. It's trial-and-error and definitely very individual. :)

than you for the answer.. will try stuff you suggested..
the thing with flax seed gel didn't workout..
it was way to thick and I got white stuff everywhere... after it dried...

[Akville]

Have not used FLax oil is it quite heavy? all I could suggest was mixing a little with a lighter oil putting a tiny amount on the ends then brushing it all though the hair. I have Caster oil, amazing but very thick and sticky so have to mix it.

Hi...
it was flax seed gel I was talking about... not oil.. but thanks anyway.. :)

[lapushka]

than you for the answer.. will try stuff you suggested..
the thing with flax seed gel didn't workout..
it was way to thick and I got white stuff everywhere... after it dried...

Flaky gel. Hmm never a good idea. Wouldn't use it again, if I were you. If you're looking for a gel, try and look into "Eco Styler" (I have the olive oil version). It does not flake at all. You only need a tiny amount, so don't overuse it.

[meteor]

than you for the answer.. will try stuff you suggested..
the thing with flax seed gel didn't workout..
it was way to thick and I got white stuff everywhere... after it dried...

Hmm, then I'd either use a much more watery, diluted version or a commercial gel. Many people have success with diluted aloe vera, but I find it can create white flakes and quite a bit of crunchiness for me too. It takes a bit of experimentation, for sure.


Two and a half years ago I got my hair "professionally" bleached at a salon. It was the longest my hair ever was (almost bra strap length.) My hair was completely fried from that.* A year ago I was using peroxide (almost every month) on my hair after it was dyed brown. I also used lemon a lot. Then I started using the John Frieda lightening spray a half a year ago for a little bit. After that I haven't done anything else. When my hair is wet it is really really piecy and unusually stretchy, and it breaks and sheds a lot in the shower.

Thank you meteor. One question: Can I clarify, protein treatment, SMT, and ACV rinse in ONE wash or how should I proceed with this?

Yes, you can. ACV rinse is pretty much just a pH adjuster, and that's a nice rinse. SMT is your moisture treatment, but it will take even better after a protein treatment on damaged hair (protein gives more structure, "scaffolding" for the moisture to hold onto and protein is also a mild humectant). That unusual stretchiness in the shower coupled with easy breakage from combing alone all point to needing protein, but severely compromised hair needs both protein and moisture. Personally, I like to add gelatin and oils straight to my SMTs (for moisture and protein). I'd highly recommend pre-poo oiling, as well, for adding plasticity. Damaged hair is porous and needs added elasticity to hold up well to daily wear and tear, so reducing porosity and increasing elasticity by oiling hair is a very good idea.
More on this: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/oil-pre-shampoo-or-pre-wash.html
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2014/03/managing-elasticity-and-porosity-in-hair.html

I should add that despite the disheartening breakage, I hope it's salvageable. :flower: Damaged hair just needs more intense moisturizing and overall conditioning than virgin hair and it tends to do well with protein. I am familiar with that moment when hair seems to crumble into pieces by just brushing it - and it can usually be stopped with a very strong protein treatment and handling hair with extreme care, "like it's antique lace". I myself have bleached highlights on my ends (from many years ago) and yes, they are fussy: they need oiling, but get greasy fast; they need to be left alone, but they tangle if they are left alone, they love protein, but get coated build-up fast, they need to be protected from the sun & pool water more... But ever since I got into putting hair up, regular oiling and protein treatments, threw away bad quality brushes and got a lot gentler with detangling, the ends look and feel just as healthy as my virgin hair... bleached hair is just something that needs to be babied, I'm afraid. Hang in there! :love: It will get better with consistent care! :cheer: Wishing you all the best! :flowers: Please let us know how things go! :)

[gustavonut]

Oooh thank you so much meteor :D I have yet another question, since I'm doing the moisture and protein treatment todau, if just like to know, what protein treatment could I do that doesn't involve gelatin or eggs? Kinda going vegan with this (plus my hair didn't like eggs, it shed like no tomorrow..) I don't have any protein conditioners besides strawberries and cream VO5 and the coconut milk one. (I think coconut milk has protein??)
Any suggestions?

[gustavonut]

Let's see.. Could I mix aloe vera juice, honey, and a VO5 conditioner (moisture milks one) as my protein and moisture treatment? Should I warm it up? And how long do I leave it?
So so sooooo many questions ahhh

[MINAKO]

If your hair feels sort of gummy you will need a stronger protein treatment, something like eggs or gelatin might be nice on healthy hair but also very temporary in effect as they just dont penetrate very deeply. I would recommend something professional like Redken extreme mask, Joico K Pack, Aphogee 2 step protein, or Phillip Kingsley Elasticizer. those are only a few of all i tried but all very rich in protein. Generally i prefer silk protein, in addition to keratin treatments but those are out of the question if you say you want something vegan.But you should be trying wheat , soy or rice protein in a treantment maybe.

[spirals]

There is protein in my hair rinse that I leave in and I think it builds up. When I notice my ends are crinkly I wash with baking soda and that seems to cure it. I do that once a month, which is every 7th or 8th wash, I think. I make sure to use oil on my brush that day to compensate for the slight dryness caused by the baking soda. But I haven't noticed any real harm from it.

[gustavonut]

Hmm...let's see... If I were to do the SMT with egg, how would I proceed?
I doubt I should warm it up then...:confused:

[meteor]

Oooh thank you so much meteor :D I have yet another question, since I'm doing the moisture and protein treatment todau, if just like to know, what protein treatment could I do that doesn't involve gelatin or eggs? Kinda going vegan with this (plus my hair didn't like eggs, it shed like no tomorrow..) I don't have any protein conditioners besides strawberries and cream VO5 and the coconut milk one. (I think coconut milk has protein??)
Any suggestions?


Let's see.. Could I mix aloe vera juice, honey, and a VO5 conditioner (moisture milks one) as my protein and moisture treatment? Should I warm it up? And how long do I leave it?
So so sooooo many questions ahhh


Hmm...let's see... If I were to do the SMT with egg, how would I proceed?
I doubt I should warm it up then...:confused:

Egg protein unhydrolyzed (i.e. not broken down) is way too large to penetrate hair and be useful in that regard, I'm afraid. Ditto for coconut milk - it's good but it's benefit is mostly in the coconut oil (penetrating oil) and sugars (humectants), rather than proteins IMHO.

Here is a nice chart that shows different protein sizes (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6sUkULijJ1g/Un1uSLvjWzI/AAAAAAAAArI/mPnfHAo0N8g/s1600/amino_acids_table.jpg), and with proteins, size matters. More about proteins: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2013/09/more-about-protein.html

I'd recommend going with a commercial product, as there aren't many DIY vegan options (maybe soy sauce or beer, see here: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.ca/2012/04/what-cookin-vegetarian-protein.html

I should also recommend reading a great article by Nightshade: Damaged Hair: Understanding, Preventing & Rehabilitating - http://web.archive.org/web/20120125071723/http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=79


If your hair feels sort of gummy you will need a stronger protein treatment, something like eggs or gelatin might be nice on healthy hair but also very temporary in effect as they just dont penetrate very deeply. I would recommend something professional like Redken extreme mask, Joico K Pack, Aphogee 2 step protein, or Phillip Kingsley Elasticizer. those are only a few of all i tried but all very rich in protein. Generally i prefer silk protein, in addition to keratin treatments but those are out of the question if you say you want something vegan.But you should be trying wheat , soy or rice protein in a treantment maybe.

^ :agree: I agree wholeheartedly! :thumbsup:
Excellent product recommendations! :D

[Anje]

I'd suggest soy sauce or Bragg's liquid aminos for hydrolyzed vegan protein. Not sure if it works as well as gelatin, but there are only so many hydrolyzed vegan protein sources, you know? :D

[Arctic]

Does anyone know how vegan protein isolates (for sports and building muscle mass) would work? And how do we know soy sauce has hydrolyzed protein? What about the salt content? I have never seen salt-free version here, ever. And Braggs amino acids aren't sold here either, I can't even imagine what kind of product that is (yes, google, I know). As a side note most often used protein in shampoos and conditioner I see here is hydrolyzed wheat protein.

[gustavonut]

So far so good, ladies. ;)
My protein treatment had:
-Stawberries and cream VO5
-Sesame seed oil
-1 egg
I mixed it really well and let it sit for a about 20 minutes (was dripping a bit and I didn't like the smell that much..)
For my moisture treatment I used
-generic brand Nexxus humectress conditioner
-warmed up aloe juice
-and natural honey.
Let that sit for an hour and a half..My hair does feel a lot softer, but I was shedding like CRAZY as usual. :steam

[gustavonut]

Less shedding than yesterday. Hair is soft and shiny but the ends are dryyyyyyyy....shudder: By the way guys, I haven't got a trim in 5 months now. How much longer should I wait till I get it cut again?

[gustavonut]

I'd suggest soy sauce or Bragg's liquid aminos for hydrolyzed vegan protein. Not sure if it works as well as gelatin, but there are only so many hydrolyzed vegan protein sources, you know? :D

I'm saving this for future use, thank you. :agree:

[Anje]

Does anyone know how vegan protein isolates (for sports and building muscle mass) would work? And how do we know soy sauce has hydrolyzed protein? What about the salt content? I have never seen salt-free version here, ever. And Braggs amino acids aren't sold here either, I can't even imagine what kind of product that is (yes, google, I know). As a side note most often used protein in shampoos and conditioner I see here is hydrolyzed wheat protein.

As I understand, the soy proteins break down during the fermentation process. The koji cultures are proteolytic.

I don't think you'll find an entirely non-salty version, but I know in the US you can find low-sodium varieties. They still have a salty characteristic, but I think that's got more to do with the fact that they're umami. :)

[Isilme]

Hm, if I were in your position with all that old accumulated damage and no trim for five months I'd get a trim. You don't need to cut out all damage at once but half an inch here, half an inch there. Hair grows when we do other things so trim every now and then and before you know it you will have damage free hair :) Just think about how many hairtoys you could buy for all that money going to deep conditioners, restorative packs etc.

[gustavonut]

Hm, if I were in your position with all that old accumulated damage and no trim for five months I'd get a trim. You don't need to cut out all damage at once but half an inch here, half an inch there. Hair grows when we do other things so trim every now and then and before you know it you will have damage free hair :) Just think about how many hairtoys you could buy for all that money going to deep conditioners, restorative packs etc.

That is amazing advice. Thank you so much, Isilme. I'm gonna take a break from here for a bit since i know what I'm gonna do for these next months till I'm APL.. Wish me luck :blossom:

[Illryeth]

This thread is so helpful, I can relate to you a lot :(.
BENT HAIR!!! It makes me lose hope all the time xD Sometimes when I look at my ends and I see a hair in the shape of an "L" or worse, the L shape has a white point and I can just break it of, and as I break it of my heart breaks a little too xDDD... I am going to get a trim and get rid of all the split ends, because it makes it impossible to brush them sometimes, as the hairs are really sticking together, not tangled, but almost as if they are merged into each other and I have to pull one hair up and lightly to try to untangle them...
I once had a reallllllyyyy good hair path after having cut my hair VERY short, kind of boyish *cries*... but it grew quite fast, and it was healthy and getting thicker... but then I did a stupid keratin treatment and started using silicones and harsh ingredients again and now my hair is gone into poop, as is all my time spent growing it...
I think it really depends on how bad your situation really is, but cutting it sometimes is the best solution :(... my splits traveled up to my chin (shoulder length hair)...I didnt trim it, because I wanted long hair... and now my hair is worse and I have to cut it even more...

[MiamiPineapple]

My hair is exactly like this. I got a 1/2 inch trim and it's amazing what a difference it made!