Sleek vs Full?

[Katze]

I'm curious about all you wavies out there...I see a lot of pics here of people with similar hair to mine, but who somehow seemed to have tamed the frizz and have it in smooth, sleek updos. Never do I see coarser nape hairs popping out, or fuzzy baby hairs at the hemline, or waves separating at the crown making the hairdo look messy and the hair greasy...

But I KNOW these things must happen to you, especially my fellow fine-haired wavies!

And I also know many of you wear updos - and like them! - most of the time. So how on earth do you accomplish this?

Since adjusting to being a wavy, I've learned to encourage the wave, ways to wear it (down) that flatter my face and my personal style. I've learned that enhancing the wave makes my hair look fuller and thicker, something important to me as I continue to live with layers and thin ends. At the moment, my preferred hair is freshly washed or day 2, with lots of moisture on the ends, worn down with the bangs clipped back. I comb it, but don't brush it, so my waves stay waves and don't turn into bumps. Oh, and when it's down, the color looks lighter, as the sun-bleached parts show and blend better with the chemically-bleached ends.

BUT I don't want to wash every 2 days, and I am experimenting with getting my hair sleek to wear in updos. Brushing the waves out and holding it in place while putting it up works most of the time.

The ends will never be sleek or hang nicely; they still have bleach and heat damage, and are too thin and wispy (so peacock twists are out). Also, the ends in contrast to my roots - especially when my hair is "dirty" or has been oiled - is a big color difference, which is not super attractive. Also, the ends are so thin it is hard to do much with them except tuck them away.

Furthermore, even when I have brushed, oiled, gelled my hair into submission...it doesn't stay that way. At the end of the day I still have a mess at sideburns, hairline, nape and crown.

I know it can, but I don't know what to do to make it do so, and to enjoy it in its very different states - wild and wavy and blonde, or sleeked back and shiny and brown?

Are there others here who do enjoy their hair both tamed and untamed, both sleek and full? Can you please give me advice or tips on how to make this work on very unmanageable hair?

thanks! :)

Katze

[Nat242]

I have quite an oily scalp, so I think that helps keep a smoother looking updo, at the scalp, anyway. My braids and buns can get a bit weird and fuzzy, and my hair is prone to fuzziness when it's loose. Perhaps I've found the one benefit to having such a damn oily scalp :rolleyes:

As for looking "full" when it's out, I find braid or bun waves, and/or a little shea butter lightly scrunched through my hair does wonders.

Sorry, I'm not too sure there is anything helpful in that.

[krash1980]

I am an 80's headbanger, I favor volume and frizziness for an untamed look.

[Stacy_E]

Hi Katze,

I get the sleekest updos by far by putting them up when my hair is wet, after I've washed it (and I'm not against CO washing every day or every other day). If it's dry and I want to do an updo, I'll sometimes mist it, and that seems to make the updo a bit sleeker than if I had put it up completely dry. One day I put my hair up in a pony when it was completely dry, and remembering what I read here, I tried using a tiny tiny bit of shea butter (rubbed first between my hands) to smooth down my boingy baby hairs, and that seemed to help quite a bit.

When I want to wear my hair down and full, with as much wave as I can eek out of it, I do the following:
1. After I turn the shower off, I flip my head down, shake my hair gently and finger-comb loosely just to get the hair loosened up and going downwards. I gently squeeze out excess moisture. Head still down, I wrap my head in a turban (lifting head up, of course to finish the turban). I don't twist too hard on the towel, for sure.
2. After deoderant, body lotion, I wash my hands (to remove the lotion from them), remove the towel on my hair, and with my head up-side-down, I scrunch in whatever I am leaving it. Lately it's been Fox's Conditioning Cream. Other times it's a drop of oil and a nickel-sized squirt of aloe gel.
3. I flip my hair up and back. Sometimes I'll take a comb to make a part, most times I don't bother. I take a small comb to separate out and comb my bang hairs. I try to avoid the "waves separating at the crown" look, or any cowlicks, by tilting my head back a bit, using my fingers to fluff out and back the hair at my crown. Then I sometimes try to encourage wave further by patting/pushing my hair upwards from the ends, letting my hair gather accordion-like in my palms. These are all quick movements that don't take much time when they become habit.
4. Then I don't touch my hair at all until it dries completely. Then when it is completely dry, I'll usually pick through it with a wide-toothed comb to kind of neaten it up.

HTH!

[spidermom]

If I want my hair to start out neater, I wet my hands and rub gel between them before I put it up. It doesn't stay neat, though. I get pieces that come down, which I twirl around wet fingers to encourage a little curl, and a halo of fluff that I smooth down somewhat with wet palms (it seems to renew the gel), a little more gel, or pomade.

[Chromis]

I just have odd hair. It's straight on the scalp and then it has what I'd call loose braid waves after it's dry. This means the scalp is always pretty sleek other than those pesky frizzies, but they go away with a smoothing of coconut oil. Coconut oil is my friend. All the other oils I have tried just made me look greasy. Aloe works well too, but only if I use like less than half the size of a dime's worth.

Other than that, I stay sleek by only wearing low updos. If I try and comb my hair upwards or put it in a half up it fights back!

[rhubarbarin]

Katze, my hair is wavier than yours, but I have the same problem. The only solution I have found - is 'washing' (even if it's just WO) every couple of days. Water keeps my hair happy. If it hasn't been recently wet, it is frizzy.. end of story. No matter what products I use. And combing it doesn't help either. Once the baby hairs have escaped, there is no taming them.

[Arctic]

I'm one of the lucky ones who don't get frizz (or if I do I don't notice it). And my hair is approximately one length except the bangs I'm growing out. But I do get baby hairs at the hairline everywere, they don't bother me. And at the end of the day, the updo never looks same as in the morning. I usually take photos right after I made the updo/braid.

I don't treat my hair as wavy, mostly because two reasons: First I was straighty untill a year ago and second my canopy is almost straight (1c) while my waves are at the underside (2b) and don't really show unless I have a half-up. Also the underlayer waves seem the same almost always, no matter what I do to them. I can't for example make them straight with combing.

As I have talked with you before, I have bad cowlicks at the crown, and because of those I don't like to let my hair dry without touching. I usually comb it when it's damp and fluff the scalp hairs concentrating at the crown (cowlicky) area. This way I get volume to the roots and cowlicks get minimized, on best days they are not visible at all with this fluffing technique.
This is also reason why I don't like to put my hair up when it's wet because that's a sure way to get visible scalp cleavage at the crown for me.

If I want a "wilder" look I skip the combing and just finger comb and fluff the scalp hair. This gives my canopy a tiny bit waves.

I personally don't like to have my hair on my face and thus don't enjoy much wearing my hair loose, so it's almost always up or braided. I recently was getting frustrated to get smooth updos (a little bit different resons than you, I felt my scalp was often showing through) and was considering buying a brush for smoothing. But then I learned the fluffing technique and that changed the way updos (and hair down) look on me: the scalp hairs seem so much nicer and neater now.

I also have noticed that when making an updo I need to detangle it well first, and then NOT gather it all in a ponytail with one big grab, but to gather several smaller sections of hair into the pony and then continue to make the 'do I want to make. This way I can make the top layer a bit looser so the weight of the updo is carried by the layers right under the canopy. Hope that makes sense.

ETA: I also wash often, my hair looks horrible otherwise, my scalp is really oily. I wash every other day.
ETA2: I like the "sideburns" hairs, I sometimes pull longer strands there. They don't bother me because they are not on my eyes :)
ETA3: I think almost everyone has different colour near the roots and at the ends. I know I do.
ETA4: I also gave up trying to stretch the washing because my scalp rebels me if I try.

[Ohio Sky]

I have all the same problems. :rolleyes:

I like to wear my hair down on occasion, (ok pretty often) and the only thing that keeps my hair from turning into a tangled, frizzy mess :taz: is lots and lots of cones. Oils help, especially coconut, but I use them more for updos because I still have yet to perfect the art of using enough without getting the greasy ends look.

For updos, I can't do anything with my hair when it's wet without losing huge chunks of it, but if I wait until it's too dry there will be frizz. I let my hair dry completely after washing (which I do two-three times a week- any longer between washings and my hair rebels) and then comb really well and then use a mister with distilled water, aloe, coconut oil, and a light condish just enough to dampen the hair. This lets me get it into as slick an udo as my hair is capable of, but the only way to keep it that way all day is to repeat the process periodically, lol.

I also have the scalp cleavage but it's because of cowlicks. The only thing that helps me with these is putting my hair up and then running over that spot with a comb.

[LeaM07]

I finger comb and bun at night after my shower (while my hair is still pretty wet), then use a wide-toothed comb in the morning and put it up with some aloe gel. The leftover dampness (from where I've slept on it) is usually just the right amount for me. Side wispies and nape hairs get tucked away with bobby pins. If I'm being picky, I'll use some hair spray also. :scared:

I have a hard time with dry hair, because the tangles are harder to get through and the wispies are more defiant.

[Gumball]

If I have to put my hair up in an updo and want to make it look just a little sleeker what I do is rub some aloe on my hair and use my boar bristle brush to brush it back lightly. I turn the brush slightly so the edge of it is used and not necessarily the whole thing flat on my head just because I notice I still get a little fluff when it's just used untilted. It's meant for spreading oils and the like so it spreads out the aloe and has some nice smoothing action.

As per working with hair to make it full I don't seem to have much experience. The more I let my hair get wild and full the more I have to deal with it later on when I want to tame it again. :rolleyes:

[darl_in1]

My hair doesn't give a damn what I favour. Sleek just isn't an option. Even when I try - my hair just waits until I leave the house and then explodes.

[Nightshade]

I have baby hairs at the nape that just don't tame, so they do their own curly strangeness and I ignore them.

For putting it up, unless it's still damp from a shower, I always always mist it. I've used plain water, chamomile tea, and now distilled water with a bit of my own shea/honey leave in mixed in.

I find that damp hair goes up better, stays better, and I end up with less pulling and fewer strays by the end of the day :)

[mira-chan]

I have plenty of sproingy coarse hairs popping up at all lengths. If you can't see them in photos, its camera blur. Even on very oily hair, some sproing up. As to oiliness, my hair hides that amazingly well but that may be a coarse dark hair thing.

As to messiness while down. I don't wear it down. No, it doesn't look too great when worn down for a while. Usually my tolerance for wearing it down is an hour or two so I put up up before it gets too bad.

[prosperina]

Leave ins like coconut oil, cocobutter jojoba mix, or just plain jojoba on wet or damp hair just after washing. This helps with sleekness, but there are still some nape hairs that do their own thing and hair around my face, but those look pretty. I don't think there is such a thing as long lasting sleekness, or if there is it's very rare and not for us wavies. :shrug:

[maskedrose]

My only cure for my halo of boingy curls around my face and my nape is to put it in an updo right out of the shower. If I let it dry down and then put it up over the course of the next few days, I will always, always have frizzy curls sticking straight out from my head, no matter how much I try to tame them with water or aloe. Sometimes I get these two curls on either side of my head that aren't quite long enough to form a spiral, so I look like I have devil horns, hehe.

Like others have said - I'm not against COing every few days in order to maintain order :)

[Aronomy]

Forget oiling for updos! Brush it as smooth as possible and while you're holding it in position for a ponytail, before you put the elastic on, use your free hand to spray leave-in conditioner on your scalp/nape and then use your brush again to smooth everything into the ponytail.

For added holding action..use aloe gel after you've put the elastic on.

This will for sure work. Use a brush for brushing back into an updo, not comb, for a sleek look (in addition to using the leave-in condish).

Tell me if you try this!

[Tapioca]

I have plenty of sproingy coarse hairs popping up at all lengths. If you can't see them in photos, its camera blur.

What she said. :D I have plenty of fuzzies, but they tend to be new growth, so I don't mind them. To be honest, I kinda like the halo. Makes everything look softer. If they don't show up in my pictures, it's because my camera doesn't have excellent resolution.

[Áine]

I love freshly washed and conditioned hair... and coconut oil. I wash only once a week though. My hair is leans more towards the coarser side, and I do believe that helps somewhat, especially since my waves tend to form uniformly when I don't touch them much, so there's no frizzing.

I swear to goodness, this is the only technique that works for me, otherwise "cousin it" appears, and laughs at any comb, brush, aloe, gel or whatever I bring in to tame it.

How I do normal washings:

A single bottle of distilled non-mineral water, a few drops of shampoo. Shake up the bottle to produce lots of suds. Dump it on my scalp, and work the lather down the rest of my hair.

Rinse off with regular tap water.

Take a microwaved bowl of conditioner with an added dollop of honey (yes, I heat my conditioner in the microwave) and apply it to hair while it's still steaming. Leave on for a few minutes until it becomes cold. Rinse off with a jug of COLD distilled bottled non-mineral water.

I then position a large fan perpendicular to where I'm sitting at the computer, and work for a bit, while the fan blows my hair dry. Because I live in an arid environment, about one half hour is plenty. About mid-week is when I do a coconut oil glossing. My hair stays nice with defined waves until my next wash.

My hair really loves water, especially because I live in a desert region, the more often it gets a full washing, the happier it is. If I go any longer than a week without washing, it does get very dried a bit hard.

[spidermom]

Sometimes the hair at the nape of my neck will look like a fluffy bunny tail below my updo after a few hours. That's when I like to twirl wet, oiled, or gelled fingers (even a smidgen of hand lotion helps) to gather the fluff into separate tendrils (not all of them curl). Then the escaped hairs look like part of the style instead of like a disintegrating style.

[jivete]

I don't have advice for smooth updo's, I tend to let mine be a little messy since I feel it's softer around my face. However I do like to wash every other day (I'm a non-shampoo-er though, CO usually) otherwise my ends get dry and my scalp gets cleavage-y.

[EvaSimone]

I have neck curls that nothing really tames. Some of them are long enough to scoop into my updo but their are others that defy me :lol:

My updos are very smooth besides the neck curls, I think it's mostly because I have fine hair that has loose waves rather than coarse and curly.

I second what everyone has said about putting your hair up when it's damp, I also use a BBB and a dab of aloe.

[Gemma]

I have embraced my wisps. I think they look cute (don't ruin my delusion, LOL!). ;)

Honestly, the only way I get truly 'sleek' hair is if it's in need of a wash. It's much easier to smooth it down when it's a bit greasy. For my ends, a little oil or hair cream will keep them neat for about half the day but I'd probably have to reapply if I wanted to avoid the usual escaping wispies.

[WavyGirl]

I have to make a decision while my hair is wet: wavy or straight? That's it until the next wash then.

Normally I pick straight. That means bunning while wet. My wavies come back fast so I can't let it partially dry or sleek would be impossible. I comb while it's still wringing. Then I always use Fox's shea butter conditioning cream (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showpost.php?p=96208&postcount=1) although my amounts might not quite match hers - I never measure. I smooth that through my hair from the ears down how Heidi W describes in her article on oiling. (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=71) I always put a lot on my ends. I still have damage in the last few inches. Then I wrap into a bun.

Like you I avoid any styles where my ends escape. They need all the protaction I can give them. I still can't do knots because of the taper, but I really hope that by the end of next year I might be able to start. Any style that starts with a low ponytail is normally fine as my scalp gets irritated if the hairs are brushed in a different direction. My favourites are cinnabun, orchid, infinity, amoretti's wrapped bun, woven bun, chinese bun, and braided versions of the same.

Once that's fastened I will smooth a tiny bit of the shea mix over the crown of my hair. I do this last so I don't get any on my scalp. It also helps hold the frizzies down. Be very careful because too much will render your last wash obsolete. :) Then if I still have stubborn curls I'll gently brush with my BBB. Even after all of this is it's even slightly breezy out I will have halo by the time I get to work. Normally just smoothing with my hands will take care of that. NB they must be dry!

For wavy hair I comb & apply my leave-in as described above below my ears. Then while I still have a trace of cream on my hands I apply it to the crown. I will often add extra aloe gel when I wear it down after putting on the cream. If I want a part I do it now. Then I pin up the top/bangs as my crown always looks really flat otherwise - I need the height to balance the horizontal volume. It also tends to seperate badly like you describe if I don't pin it into position. Then I very carefully don't touch it again. Not even when it's dry. Touching=frizz. My wavies will be smooshed into weird shapes by the next day and misting never works for me. I just end up with messy waves and mega frizz. So if I can't wash I will do a peacock twist. That is the only time I can pull that style off. I get cute little ringlets on the ends. I cannot do anything with it until I next wash. It would just break. I just comb out the next time I condition very, very slowly.

If I want sleeker waves for an evening out then I do a bee-butt bun in the morning while it's wet and leave it in until about an hour before I expect to leave. Then I carefully take it down while keeping the twisted pony as intact as possible. By the end of the hour it's normally just about dry and starting to seperate a little. I finger comb and leave it.

Sadly, it doesn't matter which option I choose I always get, halo and escapees at my nape. The only way to avoid them is to glue it in place with hairspray and I don't like that. I always have a comb in my bag so I can redo the updo whenever I feel it needs it. Most days I restyle my hair at least once. Often more.

[Shorty89]

I have quite an oily scalp, so I think that helps keep a smoother looking updo, at the scalp, anyway. My braids and buns can get a bit weird and fuzzy, and my hair is prone to fuzziness when it's loose. Perhaps I've found the one benefit to having such a damn oily scalp :rolleyes:

As for looking "full" when it's out, I find braid or bun waves, and/or a little shea butter lightly scrunched through my hair does wonders.

Sorry, I'm not too sure there is anything helpful in that. That's what I do. When my hair gets really greasy then it's all slick (almost in a gross way). But then I get little wings and my neck hairs will never be totally flat. I always have little hairs sticking everywhere when my hair is dry. Starting with it wet does help for a bit.

[Honey39]

I can only ever get sleek if I put it up when it's wet.

The other thing that KIND of works for me is aloe vera gel - if I smooth that on to the crown and the bits which 'show' when my hair is up, I can tame the frizz *somewhat*

[spidermom]

Katze, I've seen a number of similar threads from you regarding up-dos, but I've rarely seen you give feedback regarding trying any of the suggestions. Please give some feedback as to what you are trying and how it works for you.

[sky]

Not I.....Miss Hair doesn't do "sleek"!

Miss Hair does tangled curls just fine.

And updos w/ lots of baby hairs escaping.

But Miss Hair doesn't do "sleek".

:lol:

sky

[ilovelonghair]

I'm happy with my waves, for updo's I always leave some unruly curls out because I like that look. I can make it all look sleek (by combing it properly), but it doesn't suit me.

[Katze]

Forget oiling for updos! Brush it as smooth as possible and while you're holding it in position for a ponytail, before you put the elastic on, use your free hand to spray leave-in conditioner on your scalp/nape and then use your brush again to smooth everything into the ponytail.

For added holding action..use aloe gel after you've put the elastic on.

This will for sure work. Use a brush for brushing back into an updo, not comb, for a sleek look (in addition to using the leave-in condish).

Tell me if you try this!

Thanks everyone for all your help!

Conditioner on my scalp doesn't work - it flattens the hair even more and makes it look greasier.

Brushing into an updo seems to work OK for me, but when I have tried putting it up wet (as many of you suggest) that does seem to work better. I am going to try variations on that...the problem is that it is so COLD here and if I go out of the house with wet hair, I get earaches...

So lots of you do seem to use aloe and gel and even hairspray! I like these ideas, honestly, because I find myself reaching for one or several of them. The problem is the more my hair is handled the greasier it gets, and the more my scalp itches.

My original 'plan' for my hair was not to touch it. Comb it just to smooth it, but let it do its own thing. Now that it is just past BSL, this strategy isn't working so well and I do want to get it out of my way more often...but 'messy twist' updos are getting boring. Braids don't work so well (taper, layers) and I am loathe to try buns...but that may just be the option.

IF I do spend a 'dirty day' trying to master the different buns (which all look the same on me) I feel like it won't necessarily be worth my time, as the look is a really bad one on me. I see women going around with sleek 'ballerina buns' but I don't have the neck or figure for those, still I admire the sleekness.

It's funny how LHC has changed my perception of my hair! I used to think my hair WAS sleek (straight) but misbehaved. Now I am all about being wavy...but want the versatility that 'dirty days' give me, too.

Sooo, back to the drawing board to try:

1) damp updos
2) brushing while damp (??)
3) more hair gel, leave-in, etc on the wisps, or hairspray if needed (but I do this already for hair down...not sure how much mor I can pile on!)
4) letting hair dry while up...not sure how I can manage this as it takes ages, but maybe overnight
and
5) maybe occasional 'cone use, not enough to make my scalp unhappy but enough to give me some smoothness. Maybe sacrificing the wave is worth it...

thanks again everyone!

[Arctic_Mama]

I have some terrible breakage at my crown from parting my hair when wet with a comb (it did not want to go!) and then two babies worth of fuzzies from pregnancy shedding in addition to crazy poofy waves. The ONLY way I can get a sleek updo is by putting it up when it is wet and coconut oiling it. Humectants like vegetable glycerin or aloe are also really helpful.

As for when it is down I don't have a fullness problem - unless TOO full is a problem - but to keep it from looking course and frizzed I also employ my handy dandy coconut oil to the rescue for it :)

[danacc]

I can go for "sleek" on dirty day 3. At that point, there is enough sebum for a really oily look. I put my hair up with the help of a wide-toothed comb, then once it's up, one pass of the BBB results in sleek. Some nape hair may venture down, but they're oily nape hair, not frizzy nape hair. And they do loose spirals (you have these, too, from what I remember in previous posts).

When it's not dirty day 3, I embrace the halo. The hair that comes loose and is several inches long can be coaxed into loose spirals the way spidermom posted. Even on dirty day 3, I don't usually go for sleek (I use a fine-toothed comb instead of the BBB to prevent the slick, oiled look. Also, french-braiding helps provide the illusion of some height.) I prefer the softer look that the loose, shorter hair provides.

[GlassEyes]

I can do sleek just fine with gel and a comb.

I'm bad though, I use a fine-toothed comb if I want truly slicked-back hair, usually when I havea ponytail.