Taper and terminal length - are they related?

[Annalouise]

Hi,
I hope someone can explain to me if taper is related to terminal length. For instance, lets say a persons ponytail circumference is 2".
How is it that two people with the same 2" ponytail circumference have totally different taper? Is that due to one's terminal length?

(I am not taking into consideration damage and I would like to assume that both people are not damaging their hair).

For instance one person with a 2" ponytail can have a 2" circumference, or close to it, at waist. And another person with a 2" ponytail will only have about 5 hairs at waist. Does this mean that the latter's terminal length is probably significantly shorter than the formers?

So, does thickness of hair(ponytail circumference) combined with one's terminal length, determine the overall thickness down the length of the hair?

And if you only have under 20 hairs at any marker (ie: bsl, waist, hip etc) does that mean you are close to your terminal? (again assuming there is no damage occurring).

(I'd also like to assume there was no major health event that caused major shedding thus producing a false terminal).

[meteor]

Interesting question. :) I don't know the answer, but I think you are onto something there.

Natural hair that is never cut or trimmed doesn't grow in blunt straight hemlines, and different hairs can have different terminal lengths, but overall, very serious taper on virgin and completely damage-free hair could possibly point to being close to terminal length.

But unless the person has stayed at the same length for a decade or so, without any damage or any trims, I'd still be unsure whether one could tell if it's terminal or false terminal... :hmm:

[spidermom]

I think that each person has to grow and see. There's really no way I know of to calculate in advance how long your hairs will grow, much less how many of your hairs will grow to the longest possible length for you. Since I've been a member of LHC, I've seen people with all kinds of taper. I once had a roommate whose hair never grew longer than somewhere between APL and BSL. She didn't do much to damage it, and it didn't have a lot of taper. I knew her for 6-8 years, she never had a haircut, her ends didn't taper much or look damaged, but she never grew longer than stated above.

[endlessly]

Yes and no? Since individual strands are constantly growing at different times, it's impossible to have hair that is only one solid length, hence why some have a more dramatic taper to their hair than others. However, that's only assuming a person doesn't have their hair cut. If a person was to have their hair trimmed bluntly across the bottom, they'll have thicker ends.

From what I've always been told, you lose a strand of hair once it has reached its terminal length assuming it loosened itself naturally versus being pulled. But, it's difficult to say if it actually has reached terminal because there are so many other factors. Damage on an individual strand can cause it to break, which is why some fallen strands look shorter than others. I feel it's almost impossible to have a perfectly preserved, undamaged strand of hair reach terminal and actually show what terminal is because almost everything causes damage and the risk of breakage...God, I feel like I'm almost thinking in circles here, so I'm going to stick with my answer of "yes and no" and hopefully not confuse myself further!

[spidermom]

endlessly, keep in mind that hair doesn't have a terminal length per se, it has a terminal time - as in, it is genetically programmed to grow for a certain number of months before stalling, then shedding out. Terminal length is rate of growth per month x number of months the hair will grow. Some hairs only grow a few months; I regularly shed out hairs that are only 2-4 inches long. Other hairs will grow for 10 years (120 months), maybe more. I don't know how long my hair will grow as I've always chosen to cut it before it stops growing by itself.

[Nique1202]

Damage can affect ponytail/braid taper. Friction (against clothing, chairs, brushes, etc.) wears down the outer cuticle, which can make individual hairs less thick, and some of the hair especially around the outer hairline doesn't grow as long as the rest, and accumulated damage can cause breakage which will thin the hair out even further.

It's very rare that a whole head of hair has a real terminal length above waist, though. The often quoted number of 2-6 years for hair growth was a very poorly done study with very few people. Almost anyone can grow most of the hair on their head to waist and beyond, unless they have damage and breakage causing them problems before then.

[Silverbrumby]

I have a short terminal and it corresponds to a rapid taper about three inches from my scalp.

Never could grow much past BSL even after being on this site for almost 4 years and doing everything.

As a kid i didn't cut my hair from 3rd grade to age 14 and it was still just past BSL.

3 inch ponytail and by the 9 braid bump it's half a.pencil in width.

[DreamSheep]

Hi,
I hope someone can explain to me if taper is related to terminal length. For instance, lets say a persons ponytail circumference is 2".
How is it that two people with the same 2" ponytail circumference have totally different taper? Is that due to one's terminal length?

(I am not taking into consideration damage and I would like to assume that both people are not damaging their hair).

For instance one person with a 2" ponytail can have a 2" circumference, or close to it, at waist. And another person with a 2" ponytail will only have about 5 hairs at waist. Does this mean that the latter's terminal length is probably significantly shorter than the formers?

So, does thickness of hair(ponytail circumference) combined with one's terminal length, determine the overall thickness down the length of the hair?

And if you only have under 20 hairs at any marker (ie: bsl, waist, hip etc) does that mean you are close to your terminal? (again assuming there is no damage occurring).

(I'd also like to assume there was no major health event that caused major shedding thus producing a false terminal).

I would assume it would be a function of how long your anagen phase is. If you shed more, then you would be losing more hairs at each point. Higher shed rates could be a sign of a health deficiency, or may be natural, or could signify a lower anagen phase - and a lower anagen phase would be related to a shorter terminal length. That's what I think anyway :)

[Mimha]

Hi,
I hope someone can explain to me if taper is related to terminal length. For instance, lets say a persons ponytail circumference is 2".
How is it that two people with the same 2" ponytail circumference have totally different taper? Is that due to one's terminal length?

(I am not taking into consideration damage and I would like to assume that both people are not damaging their hair).

For instance one person with a 2" ponytail can have a 2" circumference, or close to it, at waist. And another person with a 2" ponytail will only have about 5 hairs at waist. Does this mean that the latter's terminal length is probably significantly shorter than the formers?

So, does thickness of hair(ponytail circumference) combined with one's terminal length, determine the overall thickness down the length of the hair?

And if you only have under 20 hairs at any marker (ie: bsl, waist, hip etc) does that mean you are close to your terminal? (again assuming there is no damage occurring).

(I'd also like to assume there was no major health event that caused major shedding thus producing a false terminal).


Hello Annalouise.

Your question is among the "unanswered ones (yet^^)", I'm afraid ! I have tried to think it over and came to the conclusion that yes, taper is an indicator of the hair growth potential. It's quite easy to figure out in theory : two persons with the same amount of hair (of same resistance to damage) may have a very different theoretical terminal point. Their potential maximal length will depend of the overall life expectancy of their hair x their growth speed. The best deal will be to have hair that grows quickly and has a long life expectancy.

Now, if you compare these two people at their own personal theoretical terminal length, you'll get one with hair completely tapered out at waist, and the other one at knees (that's an example). Hair is continually growing on one's head (even if it's not absolutely regular, due to seasonal effect), and taper represents all the intermediate stages of growth of all individual hairs which have not yet reached their own terminal point. So taper is unavoidable, because you will always have younger shorter hair growing their way down among the oldest hair that have reached their maximum length. The difference of look between our two persons will be that the one with the longer hair will look as if she/he has less taper. But she/he does not really have less taper as she/he has the same amount of hair. Simply, the taper distributes itself on a much longer length of hair. That's why I do think that a lot of taper on a short length of hair is an indicator of a shorter terminal length. That's just pure logic. (Now is hair a logic stuff ?? :D :D)

Now, to ponder what I have just said, I would like to add that the ponytail circumference is not an absolute indicator : within the same circumference, you can have hair of a totally different nature : a low amount of coarse hair or a big amount of very fine hair, both totalizing the same thickness, but with a completely different behavior.

What I want to say is that it's very difficult to compare two different persons of same ponytail circumference to figure out their terminal length potential. But I personally think that the taper rate is a significant indicator. If your amount of hair has diminished by a half at - let's say - BSL, it roughly means that your term might be around one more time that length. But if you still have 3/4 of your hair at waist, you have good chances to grow three more times that length... theoretically !^^

[Panth]

Most taper you see on the average head of hair is due to damage. Less so with people here, as we are rather more particular about eliminating sources of damage than most people. However, even wearing your hair loose most days or detangling improperly can cause enough damage to result in false terminals (been there, done that). I think that although, yes, taper is related to terminal length, it's not possible to predict terminal length from taper with any accuracy.

[*Wednesday*]

. That's why I do think that a lot of taper on a short length of hair is an indicator of a shorter terminal length. That's just pure logic. (Now is hair a logic stuff ?? :D :D)

What would be considered a lot of taper which would indicate a shorter terminal length?

[lithostoic]

In short, yes, terminal length is often reached with a lot of taper. But there is no theoretical zero damage person. Everyone damages their hair a little bit (I brush mine too roughly). So most taper that is seen is due to damage and not an indicator of terminal length.

However, in the case of "terminal taper", if you feel you are getting that way, protective styles and microtrimming usually helps thicken things up! Prevents damage and therefore any additional breakage :)

[Rebeccalaurenxx]

What would be considered a lot of taper which would indicate a shorter terminal length?

Forum post is from 2015, so this probably won’t be answered.
Lol

[MoonRabbit]

What would be considered a lot of taper which would indicate a shorter terminal length?

Hmm I think I read a blog about calculating terminal length with taper..let me see. Here

http://igorsbelltower.blogspot.de/p/estimating-your-terminal-length.html

"There are a couple of different ways to estimate your terminal length. One method is based on the taper of your ponytail and the other is based on your shedding rate

For the first method you put your hair in a low ponytail and put elastics around the length every 10-15 cm all the way down. Then you measure the distance from the first elastic at the neck to each of the elastics and plot it in on a graph. Call that X
Now you measure the circumference of the ponytail on each of the elastics and plot that in too. That is your Y

The points should give you a somewhat linear graph and if you do it by hand or a program you can extend it and estimate where the circumference reaches zero. This is your estimated terminal length using the taper calculations."


I do not know if this is accurate. But it could be interesting to try.

[*Wednesday*]

In short, yes, terminal length is often reached with a lot of taper. But there is no theoretical zero damage person. Everyone damages their hair a little bit (I brush mine too roughly). So most taper that is seen is due to damage and not an indicator of terminal length.

However, in the case of "terminal taper", if you feel you are getting that way, protective styles and microtrimming usually helps thicken things up! Prevents damage and therefore any additional breakage :)


Forum post is from 2015, so this probably won’t be answered.
Lol


Hmm I think I read a blog about calculating terminal length with taper..let me see. Here

http://igorsbelltower.blogspot.de/p/estimating-your-terminal-length.html

"There are a couple of different ways to estimate your terminal length. One method is based on the taper of your ponytail and the other is based on your shedding rate

For the first method you put your hair in a low ponytail and put elastics around the length every 10-15 cm all the way down. Then you measure the distance from the first elastic at the neck to each of the elastics and plot it in on a graph. Call that X
Now you measure the circumference of the ponytail on each of the elastics and plot that in too. That is your Y

The points should give you a somewhat linear graph and if you do it by hand or a program you can extend it and estimate where the circumference reaches zero. This is your estimated terminal length using the taper calculations."


I do not know if this is accurate. But it could be interesting to try.

Thank you ladies ☺