Super horrible hair, I have no idea how to deal

[NitaB]

Hello, I recently combed out my dreadlocks and now I'm remembering every reason why I wanted them in the first place. I have no idea how to take care of my hair... which is why I joined tlhc in the first place. My hair is huge and fluffy and wavy/wurly and massively thick. I know there are individual threads that are helpful, and trust me, I read them all; there are just so many issues I am having all at once.

I'm trying to organize so I don't paragraph block.

Current Routine:
I co-wash once a week. In between those, I condition every few days, and may water-only wash every few days. I shampoo every two weeks or whenever I feel I need it. Every once in a while (I try for once a week) I oil my hair with either coconut or avocado oil and let it sit for a few hours, sometimes overnight. I use a lot and never have a problem getting it out.
shampoo: Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle
cowash: Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle
conditioner: Tresemme naturals


Current issues:
So, I recently combed out dreadlocks, so my hair is damaged, but less so than you might think. I have been conditioning and oiling heavily and it seems to be helping a lot.
When I say my hair is massively thick, I mean that my hair is damaged and broken, I have bangs and layers, I have a large undercut (everything from the top of my ears down is shaved) and I measured my ponytail circumference just now... at barely 4 inches
Detangling (I have tried before a shower, during a shower, after a shower, the only thing that used to work was ripping through with a paddle brush [painfully]. I have a wide tooth comb, but I still can't get it through my hair without forcing it)
Updos (I can english braid and do a messy bun, that's about it. I am staying away from the bun because it makes my hair even more tangled. So at the moment and for the foreseeable future, I'm stuck with basic braids. Because of how much hair I have, I want to learn partial updos and separated buns, but I can't even french braid because of how much my hair tangles)


Future goals:
I know it won't come quick or easy and I'm prepared. My plan so far is to stay around the BSL/waist area and trim out damage as much as I can. My problems lie in protecting my hair from even more damage.
Trim out dye damage (subscribed to the growing out dye thread)
Trim out mechanical damage (subscribed to the microtrimming thread)
Trim out layers (subscribed to the growing out layers thread)
Grow out undercut

I am scared that as my hair gets longer and healthier, it will also get thicker, and I just don't know how to deal with it. I greatly appreciate any advice that you can give me. My hair used to be my favorite thing about myself and my greatest fear would be having to chop it all off.

[Islandgrrl]

Hi NitaB!

Have you looked into the curly girl method? It sounds as though your hair would be very well suited for it.

When you try to comb through your hair in the shower, slather your hair with a LOT of conditioner and gently comb through your hair to detangle WITH the conditioner in your hair. Your hair needs the slip the conditioner provides. Detangling will be MUCH easier. Use a wide toothed comb.

As far as protective styling is concerned, start with the braid if your hair just gets more tangled from bunning. You can always make a bunned braid (or a braided bun...however it's called). Try braiding while your hair is damp (it works better for me than braiding completely dry).

I'd also suggest looking up Nightshade in the members list and reading her articles about how to deal with growing out layers/damage etc. She's got it completely figured out, and even though her hairtype is different than yours, the information still applies.

Good luck on your journey. I have faith that you'll get all the advice you need here!

[Wildcat Diva]

I don't detangle my hair fully most of the time. I am wavy/wurly and I finger comb and have a go at wide tooth comb only here and there at one strand or the ends only on occasion. As long as I do this gently, it doesn't get worse with tangles. My hair is never gonna stay tangle free due to texture. I comb the scalp as I bun it and that works for me.

I bet you will learn as you go. Bunning might be possible as your hair gets longer and you learn how to deal.

[spidermom]

A small amount of a coney serum helps me keep tangles under control. I only use it about every third wash or so because the effect lasts that long. I use diluted shampoo so it doesn't get washed out every time.

[catasa]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I don´t really have any suggestions based on experience since my hair is not very tangle-prone at all, but I use mineral oil as a leave-in (a few drops only, spread through wet or damp hair/lengths) and I find it really helps when finger-combing my hair back in order after one of my very occasional upside-down washings. I think I have also seen in other threads here that it is considered a really good detangling help. So maybe it would be worth a try!

Also a note - my hair/ends actually tend to tangle worse after using conditioner, at least if I have used it for a number of washes without clarifying (my hair is buildup-prone like crazy). You write that you use shampoo quite regularly, but maybe it isn´t really clarifying enough, or you may be needing something that is also chelating if you have mineral-rich water. Also maybe try to switch conditioner, and check if your products are protein-rich which could maybe make everything worse?

Good luck! :flower:

[Nique1202]

Something with 'cones (a serum or a thick conditioner to leave in) to apply from the shoulders down would probably help a lot with the tangling issues, especially if you shampoo at least once a month. Wide toothed combs aren't supposed to rip through tangles any more than a paddle brush, if they get stuck at some point you should try to ease the tangles by hand and then comb again. Especially if your hair was just out of dreads, though, you might still struggle with the tangles for a while until the damage has grown out some. Cones will help to mask the effect of some of that damage, protect against further damage a bit, and give you back some slip for detangling and styling. I haven't tried the shampoo you listed, but if you do notice buildup even after shampooing with it, it might be worth switching to a more sulfatey or clarifying shampoo.

Buns are terrible even with a 4-inch ponytail until you get down to hip+. I have layers from collarbone to past hip thinning mine out, and I still have problems getting a basic cinnabun to hold without at least three long spin pins, and even then the layers spray out from it. I have almost no hope of getting the other common go-to buns (nautilus and lazy wrap) to hold with my layers in until about tailbone, and maybe classic or fingertip before I can do them with my full thickness. So, I ignore them.

The disc bun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iViNkltTb9Y) was a lifesaver for me. I've been able to do it since about bsl (which is about 24-26 inches on me from the front hairline) and it only needs one stick and maybe a few pins if you don't want your layers sticking out too much. I've even been able to secure it with spin pins, by putting a stick in first then securing it with spin pins where the loops cross the center, for safe nighttime wear.

[NitaB]

Islandgrrl: Thank you so much for your encouragement and advice! I've looked into the curly girl method, but would it really work if my hair isn't that curly? I've read Nightshade's articles on trimming out layers/damage and I definitely plan to take her advice.

Wildcat Diva: Thank you for your reply, is it really ok to not detangle fully? Wouldn't that make updos harder?

Spidermom: Wow, thank you. I will look into some kind of serum like that.

[NitaB]

catasa: hmm, thank you for your advice. My shampoo says that it will clarify, but maybe I should check up on that. I don't really have the wallet to be experimenting with too many different products so I tend to try and be as minimal as possible. I'll check my products tonight and see if it's necessary.

Nique1202: I was worried I would need to use some cones to help with damage control, haha. Thanks for your suggestions. And thank you for the bun link! I will have to try it as soon as I can

[Arctic]

Are you detangling your hair in smaller sections? If not, that might help a lot!

BTW, we have had couple of members who have combed out their dreads and made threads about that; those mmight be informative read for you.

[Islandgrrl]

I think the curly girl method is definitely worth a try. I'm somewhere between a 1c and 2a, depending on the length of my hair. If I apply the curly girl principles, at least in part, to my hair I get really nice wavies. If I treat my hair more like it's straight, I get a whole bunch of frizz and tangles. The difference between curly girl and not curly girl for me is evident here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=125899&p=2981379#post2981379). The more moisture my hair gets (curly girl), the less tangly it is. Because I'm not a true curly, I limit the amount of conditioner I actually leave in my hair by rinsing well in the shower and just applying a tiny bit of leave-in to the length from ears down, concentrating on the bottom foot of my hair. The leave-in I use for this is coney. It has alleviated my tangling problems completely.

Spidermom's serum suggestion is probably a really good one. I haven't tried it myself, but I'm tempted!

FWIW, when I clarify, I use Suave's Daily Clarifying Shampoo. I can often get it for a buck a bottle, and it lasts me at least a year. You don't have to use expensive products to get really good results. I also use Suave Naturals Coconut Conditioner. It's a pretty popular one around here - cone free, cheap and easy to find. The leave in I use is from Sally's - Miracle 7 leave-on. Not super cheap, but affordable, and I use a squirt about the size of a nickel.

Again, our hairtypes are very different, but I think a lot of the principles are similar.


Islandgrrl: Thank you so much for your encouragement and advice! I've looked into the curly girl method, but would it really work if my hair isn't that curly? I've read Nightshade's articles on trimming out layers/damage and I definitely plan to take her advice.

Wildcat Diva: Thank you for your reply, is it really ok to not detangle fully? Wouldn't that make updos harder?

Spidermom: Wow, thank you. I will look into some kind of serum like that.

[lapushka]

Maybe try a Tangle Teezer or the Wet Brush for detangling? Just thought of this, and you might not have tried those options.

[meteor]

Hi, NitaB! :D Congratulations on combing out dreadlocks! And welcome to the LHC! :cheer:

I see you already got some great advice. I would like to echo the oiling (pre-poo, leave-in, added to conditioner, LOC, etc) and silicone serums advice.

And I should add that there is a very good supporting thread on thick hair (lots of updos and detangling tips there ;) ): http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=125061

Also, for easier detangling around the washing time, I highly recommend braided washes and scalp-only washes in-between full washes.
For a braided wash, you can just do 2-4 or more braids from chin/collarbone down and wash and condition your hair this way - it really helps with easier detangling hair post-wash. Here is a thread on this: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=129718
Scalp-only washes can be done on scalp, with length braided/bunned and covered with a plastic cap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VBOVM-dHlc This saves a lot of detangling and drying time. ;)
To avoid mechanical damage from detangling, I'd recommend using fingers and/or wide-tooth seamless comb gently and slowly, instead of a brush for detangling, because brushes have bristles that are too close - that close spacing can be a big problem, especially for very thick hair.

For updos, since you already do English braids, and you feel that buns result in tangles, how about braided buns? Something like a braided lazy wrap bun or a braided cinnabun or a braided pencil bun, a braided Chinese bun or Ellingwoman braided bun are very comfy... I think braided buns tangle less than ordinary braids or buns. A
I posted a quick list of braided updos (based on simple English braids) a while ago here (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=124183&p=2756756&viewfull=1#post2756756). I hope some of them might work for you.

Sectioned buns and double/triple buns are also recommended for thicker hair. (Sectioned + Braided Buns thread: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=130109)

Best of luck! :flowers: And happy growing! :cheer:

[NitaB]

Ooh, thank you everyone so much. This place is so friendly and helpful!
I will try my best to take your advice and will definitely update in a little while if anything changes

[theoperative]

Hello NitaB, it sounds like we have the same hair ;)

My hair is short now (I'm a guy), and I wake up every morning to this horrible afro/tumbleweed mess on my head. Thick, super wavy with 3 or 4 nasty cowlicks. I need to bend each strand into place with a pliers (okay not really, but kinda feels like that sometimes). When it was shoulders or a little past it took a lot of time with the blowdrying to make it look decent but that trashed it…and it always got messy quickly :( Even so, did not flow but moved with my head like a wig, LOL!

If it's any help, I will first advise you to simply accept the hair you have regarding texture and color. Secondly, coconut oil works miracles, I never knew about this at the time. Also, I never grew my hair much past my shoulder-length but I realized pretty quick it behaved much better the longer it got because of the weight. For my/your hair type I would suggest mid-back, but of course that's entirely up to you.

Cheers from Europe :)

T.O.

[Nini]

Practice your updo's. You don't know if you can do them or not until you've given it a shot or ten. None of us were born knowing this after all ;)

[picklepie]

Sectioning to detangle (the smaller the section, the easier), along with braided washing, have absolutely changed my relationship with my hair. And if your hair dreaded well, I'm betting Curly Girl has something very nice to offer you....

Also, congratulations on having Force of Nature hair. I think of people like you as being stewards of a precious resource, or recipients of divine inspiration-- you can do with it as you please, but what glory and honor are available if you choose to accept the mantle of responsibility and take on the challenge of helping this mighty gift reach its full, very unusual, potential! To put it in the most grandiloquent terms possible. :) But it's true. :)

[Panth]

You've got a lot of good advice. I'd just add that if you've got a 4" ponytail despite damage, layers, a fringe and an undercut then you've got really thick hair. The usual classifiers are: up to 2" = thin (i), 2"-4" medium (ii), 4" and over is thick (iii). Your issues with updos are very likely due to the fact that you've got super-thick hair. With iii+ hair you often need waist-length or longer hair before you're able to do buns that look neat and stay put. You can get around this a few ways:
- do multiple buns (Double, triple, etc. A pair of low ones down by the nape looks nice, as does a pair of high ones. You could also do a series of ones along the centre of your hair in a sort of faux-hawk style.)
- do sectioned buns (Essentially, make a half-up, bun it, then wrap the loose bottom half around the bun you've made. This splits the hair, essentially letting you work with half your thickness and thus makes buns easier and more stable. You can search for "vortex buns", which are a sectioned style.)
- do braids instead - french, dutch, two french, two dutch, Amish braids, crown braids, etc. - they all look super-nice on thick hair and don't need as much length to achieve as non-sectioned single buns do when on iii+ hair
- do non-bunned protective updos, e.g. peacock twist, lazy-wrap ponytail (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=129368), french twist, etc.

[NitaB]

This was my hair yesterday, please excuse the quality, I'm still trying to figure out where to stand to take a pic of the back of my head.
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af77/SnappleCapsClick/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo%20on%202015-04-03%20at%2010.22_zpsdkyract7.jpg

I spent the past 20ish hours with oil in my hair (1tbsp coconut, 2tbsp avocado, and a dash of olive. Yes, all of it) and I just rinsed it out and conditioned my hair. I actually detangled it! We'll see how long it lasts. I'll probably also use this pic to join the BSL to Waist thread
http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af77/SnappleCapsClick/Mobile%20Uploads/Photo%20on%202015-04-04%20at%2010.05%202_zpsj3k83o5o.jpg

I think I'll spend the weekend working with buns and braids and seeing what actually works

[NitaB]

You've got a lot of good advice. I'd just add that if you've got a 4" ponytail despite damage, layers, a fringe and an undercut then you've got really thick hair. The usual classifiers are: up to 2" = thin (i), 2"-4" medium (ii), 4" and over is thick (iii). Your issues with updos are very likely due to the fact that you've got super-thick hair. With iii+ hair you often need waist-length or longer hair before you're able to do buns that look neat and stay put. You can get around this a few ways:
- do multiple buns (Double, triple, etc. A pair of low ones down by the nape looks nice, as does a pair of high ones. You could also do a series of ones along the centre of your hair in a sort of faux-hawk style.)
- do sectioned buns (Essentially, make a half-up, bun it, then wrap the loose bottom half around the bun you've made. This splits the hair, essentially letting you work with half your thickness and thus makes buns easier and more stable. You can search for "vortex buns", which are a sectioned style.)
- do braids instead - french, dutch, two french, two dutch, Amish braids, crown braids, etc. - they all look super-nice on thick hair and don't need as much length to achieve as non-sectioned single buns do when on iii+ hair
- do non-bunned protective updos, e.g. peacock twist, lazy-wrap ponytail (http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=129368), french twist, etc.


Thank you for the specifics, I think Amish and crown braids will be my friends as anything that takes all my hair tends to pull (I've never been able to handle so much as a ponytail)


Also, congratulations on having Force of Nature hair. I think of people like you as being stewards of a precious resource, or recipients of divine inspiration-- you can do with it as you please, but what glory and honor are available if you choose to accept the mantle of responsibility and take on the challenge of helping this mighty gift reach its full, very unusual, potential! To put it in the most grandiloquent terms possible. But it's true.

This is perhaps the best and nicest thing I have ever read. Thank you so much for your kind words

[lapushka]

Thank you for the specifics, I think Amish and crown braids will be my friends as anything that takes all my hair tends to pull (I've never been able to handle so much as a ponytail)

I'm a little over 4 inches in circ. and wasn't able to do a bun until I hit waist/hip. So, keep that in mind. What did work for me was a peacock twist, and I wore that all the way to waist/hip. It's an easy style, doesn't pull and all you need is a claw clip!

[Larki]

What's a peacock twist?

[yogagirl]

Nita, I'm glad others have been able to give you good advice. I'm just posting to say :thudpile: Your hair is ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! I wish I had your waves :crush: Obviously they are not easy to handle though... I bet once you get that damage trimmed out it, it will get much better. Meanwhile I would reach for a conditioner specifically for damaged hair, i.e. with lots of cones.

Best of luck!

[lapushka]

What's a peacock twist?

You hold your hand around a ponytail, twist and put the hair up, then clip a claw over it. It used to be called "tails-up" on the Flexi8 site. Hope this will give you an idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boGblrUa_O8

[Teazel]

Ooh. You have the same hair type as Wonderlywroughte, and she has one of the most thudworthy heads of hair on LHC, in my opinion. I know it's frustrating to be in the stage of trying to figure out what to do to get the best out of your hair, but don't give up! It has great potential! :cheer: