Regarding silicones

[quickredfox]

I had a discussion with my hairdresser friend the other day about ‘cones. She claims there are only bad types of silicones to be found in cheap drugstore products and good ones (or at least better ones) in some higher end products.

I’d be inclined to think that any form of silicone would be like a coating to your hair (or skin) and therefore simply improves its appearance. From what I've heard and read there is no actual benefit to the quality of your hair.
What do you guys think? Can anyone with a better understanding of chemistry shed some light on this?

[Angels+Eyeliner]

Silicone is silicone, whether or not it's in an expensive product or a cheaper one. Since all silicone does is, as you rightly said, coat the hair then it doesn't matter what the price of the gunk is: it will coat your hair. High end products might have OTHER ingredients that would affect the end result (although not in the experience of many) but the silicone would still pretty much be the same. For example, a high end product might have something else designed to make the effect last longer, or something that smells better but the 'cones themselves don't change. If you're making hot chocolate with cheap instant powder, and one with a real Belgium chocolate base with whipped cream and marshmallows the price and experience can be very different... but the milk you mixed both into is still the same milk.

Hairdressers are trained to sell products as well as style hair. I'm not suggesting that your friend is trying to scam your hard earned money out of you and sell you her salon's spit end restorer but it's likely that she's been told that cheap products= bad and expensive =good because they are bad and good (respectively) to the hair industry. Frankly, if you want to use cones then you will find that some products work better and that's the OTHER stuff in there making the difference. Find the one that works for you and stick to it no matter what pricier options come along.

And if you DON'T want to use 'cones then don't believe anyone saying that expensive 'cones are 'good' for your hair. They do the same job.

[Nique1202]

As far as I've seen the same silicones are generally used across the board. There may be some variation between drugstore and salon products, but it's not much. Hairdressers are taught in their training that salon products are best and drugstore products are to be avoided at all costs and hair cutting should only ever be done by a professional and hair needs to be trimmed in order to keep growing and all kinds of other nonsense.

As far as the effects on the hair, there's no difference between drugstore and salon products: silicones help to fill damage/gaps in the cuticle to smooth it out and make it shiny. There's nothing harmful about the silicones in any hair product on the market. Some people's hair builds up silicones really easily, especially if they don't use a very cleansing or clarifying shampoo regularly, but some people's hair benefits greatly from using silicones. They can make it easier to comb and detangle, easier to style, and the added shine and smoothness indicate healthier hair. It helps to make up for a variety of the sins we commit every day or every once in a while. Vinegar rinses aren't conditioning enough for everyone.

You're right that it doesn't literally repair the hair, which is why such products need to be used regularly, but for people whose hair has a very open cuticle, or doesn't grow in thick and shiny on its own regardless of diet and lifestyle, or who want to engage in some damaging practices now and then without sacrificing the look of healthy hair, silicones can be really helpful.

[Anje]

Some silicones build up more than others, but these can be found at practically all price ranges. (I'd say she was trying to sell you her salon products. :D)

Silicones do have a number of useful functions for people. In addition to the cosmetic (shiny hair), they increase the amount that hair slips across itself, so a lot of people find that it improves how their hair handles and how much it tangles. Obviously, this is good for preventing future damage!

However, it's very individual. I personally find that at least some silicones make my hair get dry faster, so I limit my use of them for the most part. (I do have one conditioner in my rotation that has amodimethicone {eta: might be bis-aminopropyldimethicone, not sure; there are quite a few silicone compounds that behave in moderately different ways} in it, I believe -- this is one that binds to hair but not to itself, so it doesn't build up ad infinitium.) I also tend to notice more single-stranded knots forming with silicones, perhaps because I like wearing my hair loose more when it's all slippery, which definitely counteracts the damage-prevention. Besides, too-slippery hair makes for falling-apart fuzzy updos in short order, which isn't the look I'm going for. So I limit my use of them.

It's very individual. Get used to reading the ingredients lists on products, learn what the major ingredients are, and pay attention to how your hair responds. That'll put you in a much better position to figure out what you want to use.

[jackie_brown]

Hi!
I don't think there are "good" cones and bad one (but oddly enough the hairdresser's cones are the good one, isn't it? :D), the main difference between cones is the water-solubility.
The water-soluble ones wash away with the following shampoos, instead the unsoluble ones can build up on hair.

[schnibbles]

Amodimethicone is supposed to be a water soluable cone (and resists building up) My favorite conditioner contains amodimethicone and it's "low end" - L'oreal Total Repair 5. I would disagree with your hair stylist friend (and agree with you) in the assumption that because a product is considered higher end it's automatically a quality product.
Reading labels and understanding what you're reading is really the key. There are some excellent drugstore products out there (with cones or not) if you know what you're buying.
I like amodimethicone because I have hard water, I'm a iii and close to tailbone length. I need the manageability. Otherwise I have a tailbone length rat's nest and trying to detangle that is going to be breakage city. So while amodimethicone itself doesn't benefit the quality of my hair, it helps me keep what I have. I pay close attention to the health of my hair overall so I've never had a problem with cones negatively affecting my hair. Depending on your hair texture... at longer lengths cones can be a helpful tool. When I was BSL I could get away with cone-free.
Hope this helps.

[quickredfox]

That's what I thought, I'm not that easily convinced :) Guessing she was just trained into believing those things.

Good to know silicones aren't necessarily harmful. I have this silk protein serum that I like to use, but there are a lot of cones in it. It's the only cone product I still use because it does make the lengths of my hair look glossy.

Thanks!

[MsVenus]

I find that silicones help me to retain length. I love them.

[lapushka]

I only know that silicones provide more slip, which you need at longer lengths, or you'll get tangles up the beeeehind. ;)

[Lavendersugar]

Everyone has pretty much said it all.

I'm still amazed at stylist that truly believe anything that is not a salon brand is junk. Almost everytime I see beautiful hair and find out what they are using it drugstore. Typically Pantene, Dove, Suave or Tresemme. Of course caring for the hair is a big factor.

I like cones. I prefer to not have them in my shampoo but everything else is fine.

It's about what works for your hair.

[endlessly]

As far as I'm considered, the only true benefit to having silicones in your products is the "slip" it gives your hair. If you are especially tangle-prone, silicones will provide that slippery coating so you can detangle with ease without ripping out or breaking your hair.

And, also like you had said, it is supposed to act as a coating to hair which, in my opinion, fakes the appearance of your hair being much healthier than it truly is. When I was much younger, excessively washing my hair, and using heat styling every day, my hair was pretty damaged, but since I used a relatively cheap conditioner loaded with silicones, I never actually saw the damage for what it truly was. Now, I'm silicone-free only because I was tired of having so much residue on my hair and scalp and I must say, I'm much happier. I'm not trying to bash silicones by any means and if they work for you then that's great, but they make me have to wash my hair so frequently and I just don't like having to deal with that. Plus, now I know to take much better care of my hair because my products aren't concealing any damage, so I'm glad to say that making the switch for me greatly improved the overall health of my hair.

[meteor]

I had a discussion with my hairdresser friend the other day about ‘cones. She claims there are only bad types of silicones to be found in cheap drugstore products and good ones (or at least better ones) in some higher end products.

I’d be inclined to think that any form of silicone would be like a coating to your hair (or skin) and therefore simply improves its appearance. From what I've heard and read there is no actual benefit to the quality of your hair.
What do you guys think? Can anyone with a better understanding of chemistry shed some light on this?

I think she's wrong. Sure, there are lots of different silicones out there but your ingredients list will tell you exactly which kinds are in your product.
If an ingredient is called "dimethicone", for example, it is the exact same thing in whatever product you use, expensive or not. (Sometimes the names will be tricky, but nothing that a Google search won't clarify ;) ). It's not like high-end companies have a separate supply of chemicals - they all tap into the same sources and they have to list the ingredients they use. Not to mention that a lot of high-end brands are owned by the same companies as the cheaper brands and often use almost identical formulas :rolleyes: (so you can find lots of dupes sold under the same umbrella but for very different prices).

Check out this podcast by 2 cosmetic scientists on this very subject: http://thebeautybrains.com/2013/11/05/the-beauty-brains-show-episode-03-are-salon-ingredients-higher-quality/

An exception to this rule would be organic natural oils, either carrier or essential (where provenance matters, as different climates and soil can produce slightly different results) and plant extracts - extracts could be many things, while being listed as the same "extract".

[kidari]

I imagine that if you have healthy hair, you could probably use almost anything and your hair will be fine. However, if you get it chemically treated, colored, heat-styled, back-combed, etc. all the time then maybe that's when salon-quality products might be better for very processed, porous, and damaged hair. I found that salon products tend to have tons of "strengthening" or "repairing" qualities mostly due to I guess fancy protein formulations. They also almost always have tons of cones in them. This is just a thought. Personally, I love the protection and manageability that cones provide for my hair. I've used drugstore brands and high end brands that have been phenomenal and drugstore brands and high end brands that really did not work out for my hair.