Hair Newbie having trouble

[NightDaemon]

Hi all. I'm in something of a bind, of the matted hair variety.

First, some background info. I grew up with short hair, usually about an inch long on top. My hair's curly when it's short, so growing it when I decided to when I was 16 was ... interesting. Basically, I wore a beanie (toque or what have you, not the propeller sort) to straighten it some and keep it out of the way until it was ponytail length. But, growing up with short hair, I didn't learn all the good habits.

Now, the problem... My hair's matted. Badly. If you're of a nervous disposition, stop reading!

Short version, whenever things get hectic, I just keep it in a ponytail, and if I forget to brush it, I just retie the ponytail to keep it 'neat'. Turns out, neat is not good enough, and it just slowly got matted and worse... To make things even less awesome, I get dandruff and that starts to mix in the mat.

It's quite horrid, and it's the second time this has happened to me... the first time, I got it out by long hours of trying to pull things out from the mat... this time, I left it longer because of exams and such, and it's nasty. I haven't gone to a hairdresser or anything for fear they'd run away screaming.

I'm trying some detangler at the moment, though it's making my normally greasy hair... fit for automotive use. If any of you have good tips for detangling hair as bad as this, and perhaps tips on getting into good habits once it's back in shape, I'd love to hear it. Please remember, I'm a hair-care newbie, so using any technical sorta names is gonna confuse me (I'm an IT person IRL, so I know how fun doing that can be).

Whenever I try to detangle it, I usually get up to a fist-sized ball of removed hair before my shoulder gets too sore to keep working on it.

[melikai]

Hi there :)

There have recently been a couple of good threads relating to your problem:

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=12854

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/showthread.php?t=12899

The first one is concerning dreadlocks, but they're basically very matted hair ;)

The general recommendation seems to be to get some very 'coney conditioner - a lot of it - and a fine toothed comb, start from the bottom, be very gentle, work slow, and expect to see a lot of loose hairs.
The "shedding" may not actually be you losing hair, but old shed hairs that have been caught up in the tangles, since they weren't able to fall.

Good luck - and lose the ponytail! ;)

[NightDaemon]

What is coney conditioner?

Also, when people say they 'soak their hair in conditioner', do they mean just a bucket of conditioner (sounds expensive to me), or diluting it, or pouring it on?

[Isblå]

Oh my, I feel bad for you. Anyway, I think you should be able to fix this. I did this (awsome) costume once, where my hair was sprayed bright red and matted and backcombed to stand straight up from my head. It was about shoulder length I think. It was not fun to get out but I detangled in the shower after first washing thouroghly with shampoo to get most of the colour out and then drenching it in conditioner. Then I did the detangling while with the conditioner in. I think you could add more as you go if it is needed. I remember I used a big brush, but today I would probably have tried a wide toothed comb.

And remember to start from the bottom or you will probably make it worse.

A style that could be good for you in the hectic periods could be to braid the ponytail. One simple braid down the back is easy to do, looks good, and your hair won't tangle during the day. I have used braids a lot when doing outside activities, wearing helmets and such, and I find that this keeps the hair out of the way when I don't have time to think about it.

Good luck - hope you can use some of this. i don't think we have the same type of hair from what you wrote, so maybe someone with more experience with curls have something important to add.

[wintersun99]

.............

[Periwinkle]

You've had some good advice on how to get out the mats, so I'll try to help with the getting into good habits :)

Buy yourself a nice wooden comb. You can get them cheaply (try the body shop), but they're really nice and maybe if you have a new comb, you'll feel obliged to use it?

Try and get into the habit of doing something with your hair at night. Is it long enough to braid? Even if it isn't, you can still get into the habit of taking out down last thing at night, combing it and putting it back up again.

If your hair is long enough for braids or buns, then you could investigate those: if you can get it to stay neat, then you can leave your hair that way for quite a while and it will get far less tangled than in a ponytail.

[NightDaemon]

I've tried to braid my hair, but never managed it. I know the theory of braiding, and theoretically how to do it, but I've never managed, and it seems like it'd take ages.

I used to wear my hair out when I could, but my hair type and body shape combined to make unfortunate comparisons to Hurley from Lost.

I do plan on losing the ponytail as soon as I can, though. the bits I've gotten out of the bad bits (at the front mostly) go down past my shoulderblades, so it could start to look pretty cool.

[NightDaemon]

You've had some good advice on how to get out the mats, so I'll try to help with the getting into good habits :)

Buy yourself a nice wooden comb. You can get them cheaply (try the body shop), but they're really nice and maybe if you have a new comb, you'll feel obliged to use it?

Try and get into the habit of doing something with your hair at night. Is it long enough to braid? Even if it isn't, you can still get into the habit of taking out down last thing at night, combing it and putting it back up again.

If your hair is long enough for braids or buns, then you could investigate those: if you can get it to stay neat, then you can leave your hair that way for quite a while and it will get far less tangled than in a ponytail.

Hmm, a wooden comb? I've not had one of those before, just the normal plastic sorta ones. Also, do you recommend a comb or a brush more for long (and thick) hair? I think I know the difference...

As for how to wear it afterwards... yeah, it's gonna be a learning process and a half.

[Anje]

My advice is pretty simple:
1) Go to the store and look at the ingredients of conditioners. You want something with ingredients like dimethicone high on the list. Anything ending in "-icone" and "-oxane" is good for this. These are what we call "cones" around here -- they are silicone-based hair-smoothing ingredients, and generally are insoluble in water. (Therefore, you'll have to shampoo this out eventually.) While you're out, get a wide-tooth shower comb with the smoothest injection-mold seams you can find. This sort of thing is perfect. (http://www.shopping.com/xPO-Jilbere_Shower_Comb) Oh, and throw your $0.50 black plastic fine and finer toothed standard guy comb in the trash. It's OK if you have hair two inches long, not so good if your hair is long.

2) Apply your conditioner to dry hair. Gently work it in, trying not to make the tangles worse, but you want to get your hair good and slimy. Cover in plastic (shower cap, plastic shopping bag, whatever) so it doesn't dry, and let it soak for a while.

3) Now for the hard part... with your fingers and your wide-tooth comb, start picking apart this mat. It'll probably hurt, and I can guarantee you'll lose some hair in the process (even if you do it perfectly, hair that you shed while the mat was forming is going to be caught in there, and it'll come out). Try not to stress too much, just watch a movie or something and pick at the knot. When you're done, rinse out the conditioner.

4) Repeat steps 1-3 as necessary over the next few days until you've got this thing fixed.

5) Now for the maintenance part of having curly hair. If your hair is as curly as Hurley's looks when I GIS him, you probably would do best doing all your detangling in the shower. Wash your hair without piling it on your head (you might not want to use shampoo most of the time -- check out CO washing and CWC washing on this forum), and condition it. You need to condition every single time you wash your hair to keep it moist and well-behaved. While your hair is full of conditioner, detangle it with the shower comb. To do this, comb the last few inches of hair, then move up a few inches, and comb to the endsd, move up a few more inches, etc. til you've combed all your hair. If you're wearing ponytails mostly to contain your hair, you probably should plan on detangling at minimum every two days. If you put your hair in buns and/or braids, you may be able to stretch that figure to a week, but don't plan on going any longer.

6) Learn to braid. Start with yarn or string (or CAT5 cables, if you have those lying around your house like I do), if you find that easier. Then try it on your ponytail. The first few times will be messy, but it'll improve with practice. Braids will contain your hair and keep it from tangling around itself, so you will have fewer tangles than if you leave your hair loose.

7) Spend some more time here. You'll pick up a lot of information and a lot less misinformation on how to care for your hair, whatever length you have it. Another good site to look at is naturallycurly.com, which might give you more help specific to your hair.

[NightDaemon]

One of the combs I've got is a 'detangling comb'... it doesn't work so well, the teeth keep breaking. It's fairly wide-toothed, though. Mostly what I use it for these days is the extra-reinforced tooth right at the end that I work under a little bit of hair, then pull until it comes free... It's effective enough, hell on both shoulder and scalp though, thus my lack of progress to date.

[cindy58]

As to good hair habits, we'll get you going. Pretty soon you'll be taking photos and posting them for us, and you'll know you'll want to be looking good . . .

Good Luck with the tangles!

[Anje]

We'll set you right soon enough. You probably should get a wide-tooth comb with fat teeth that won't break, though. Setting one tooth under a tangle and pulling is a more effective way to pull out or break hair than to fix tangles. Start as near to the edge of the tangle as you can manage, and just pick away at it, a little at a time.

[renarok]

It sounds like you need to enlist the help of another set of arms. I'm positive that with enough time and tlc that the knots will come out. Do you have any friend that you can ask to help for an hour or eight? Use lots of conditioner on the ends. Start from as close to the ends as you can and just be patient. It doesn't have to happen all at once.

[heidi w.]

I am betting you have al lthe suggestions you need for unmatting this mass.

OK, how to form better habits?

I don't recollect if you said what length your hair is at presently, but it's clearly long enough for a ponytail.

Step 1: DO NOT PONYTAIL.

If your habit is to pony it up and then ignore it and just ball it up somehow on Day 3 of said ponytail, then it's time to stop relying on a ponytail.

Besides, a ponytail does not protect hair length sufficiently.

You need a standby updo.

You need a stick. As an IT personality, you're likely all about git 'er done, and not a lot of fuss (long hours over weekends!), so you need one or two standby updos that you can count on.

Then EVERY DAY you must detangle hair and put in updo.

My bet is if you must ponytail, go one step further and braid. IF you braid, even if you end up sleeping overnight in this braid or even yet one more night, you might still have some detangling to do just at the back of the neck, and your braid will look shaggy after a day or so, but AT LEAST IT'S APPROPRIATELY AND SAFELY BUNDLED for the moment, til you can handle it and have enough length for an updo. (Don't braid uber tight. If you don't know how to braid, practice on a long haired doll. It's all about the thumbs controlling the tension of the weave by holding hair in its position per weave.)

OK, no rubber bands. Evil. Throw them away.
Go to a Sally's or a Marie Claire's or even your local grocery store beauty aisle and look for cloth covered bands, or scrunchies.

At night you can braid or scrunchie the length... Somehow. For sleeping you need it a little loose off the head (not drawn back as though you're some kind of hero of the night and need a bullet head to fly through the sky without drag), in its natural state wherever your hair part falls, and then braid or scrunchie so you can sleep without lumps in your ear or cheek. (So you need some room to just lay that sucker off to the side, or above your head to drape over the pillow a bit.) As you gain length, the weight will mean your hair stays put.

A lot of people like these covers for a braid...what are those called? Oh DARN!

Sleep on a slick pillowcase such as satin, sateen, polyester (you know, parachute cloth). No big looped fabrics such as fleece type things.

Avoid letting loose hair rub against knits, fleeces, stuff that tends to ball up hair more easily. Most of us when wearing hair loose have a problem with tangles at the nape or back of the neck zonage. Hence the need to put in updo, or at minimum a braid!

Do not tie off a braid in the same place every day. Move that around. You don't want a thinned zone to form, a line of demarcation. It takes a while for this to occur, but it can occur if you tie off in the same zonage every day. Same for updos: if you place a stick across the head in the same spot pretty much every day, you can get a thinned area.

A lot of people, and I was included in this, like various versions of claw clips for holding an updo. It's pretty easy to put up in this, if not used to forming updos, and you can easily adjust as needed throughout the day. When my hair arrived at a certain length, I had to use 2 claw clips to hold it all.

Avoid drawing hair tightly back from the forehead zone. You do not want to notice one day, what the heck happened to my hairline: did it really move? Tight enough, and yes, it will move. You will lose hair if pulling too tight over&over again. PLUS most of us will get a headache eventually if you practice this bad habit.

Places to discover updo instructions: I am sure you can open another thread explaining your length and asking for written instructions of how to and even request some photos or youtube links. You can also check out STYLING STATION of THE LONG HAIR LOOM. (I thought there might be an UPDO thread in SOCIAL GROUPS here on LHC! I think there is.) The Loom is free, and the styling section has a lot of photos and specific instructions.

The only thing with sticks and clips is that this can add width or heighth to your head space so when you go crawling under desks to connect wires and cables you will have to get used to these acoutrements sometimes getting hit. I sometimes get in my car and misjudge and the added ornament hits the edge of the car upon getting into the driver's seat. You'll get used to it after a few reminders.

heidi w.

[heidi w.]

If you have a busy schedule then you need to carry a small comb with you in your satchel, bakpak, purse or whatever it is you lug around...hip pocket.

OR keep one at your work desk, one in the glove box of your car and several stashed around pointed locations around the house.

This way, when you have a moment, you just grab and excuse yourself to the ladies' room (if at work or somewhere public) and organize your hair cuz now you have a moment while the software is uploading!

Once you get this habit down, you'll see it won't take very long.

Bottom to top to detangle: never top to bottom. NO TEARING THROUGH HAIR. It just hurts, anyway to do it the wrong way.

You can also stash braid tie offs and scrunchies and spare claw clips in locales, too.

My glove box car kit contains a comb, a scrunchie, and few other necessities hair related. I carry an emergency bit in my purse too. I have hairpins in a plastic baggie, a few cloth tie offs, a comb, and a few baubles for decoration of the hair.

My bet is you need stuff to be in your proximity, not for you to have to go in search of necessary tools.

If growing out bangs, headbands help!

heidi w.

[NightDaemon]

Thanks for all the tips! I'm gonna have to find some time soon (I had been planning on spending today on it, but something came up) to really hammer away (figuratively) at this. I'll let you all know how it turns out. Some of the things for after I get it worked out I could end up being a little shy about, guys traditionally have a few less options in this area. Maybe a nice braid until I work up the guts/skills for something fancier.

[Anje]

Guys do have more limited options, but they aren't typically as limited as you might think. There are several men around here who regularly wear buns (generally held with invisible hairpins or a simple, undecorated hairstick), and others who wear braids, even French braids. If you feel comfortable with a hairstyle and it isn't being held with something pink and sparkly, chances are good that other people will think it looks masculine enough, though perhaps a bit unusual. As a guy with long hair, you're probably already used to standing out a little, so wearing it in a different style isn't likely to make much change.

[NightDaemon]

French braids look cool, but I *know* I'll never be able to manage that sort of thing. As for pink and sparkly... well, I won't say I'll rule that out all the time, especially the sparkly bit. Unless it starts distracting me too much, that is. I can just see me with a sparkly thing on the end of my braid and spending all my time batting it around. Wheee.

[NightDaemon]

Okay, I got some decent progress made on it, and you can actually see how long my hair is now! Woo! It's still not good enough to wear in public outside of a ponytail (that's what screwed it, that's the only way to cover it now :( )

It's still a decently thick mat on the back, more than an inch thick, but I'm hoping to get some help with it tonight.

Here's a pic for you, which I hope to print out and BURN when I finally get it all fixed. You can kinda see how not cool it is on the back. Don't look at it if you've eaten recently.

http://nightdaemon.freehostia.com/Hair1.jpg

[Janka]

Well, I don't know how bad it looked before, but the wawes are nice and shiny in the lenghts! Good work!
:flowers:
If you still want to wear a ponytail, try this trick to keep the hair from tangling again: use an elastic/scrunchie/whatever to hold your hair. Then, put another elastic 2-3 inches down the ponytail, then another one etc. This way, your hair is "closed" almost as in a braid, it looks good and you reduce further tangling! Making braid is not very difficult, try it a few times. I know I will probably never be able to do a cool franch braid, especially not on myself, sigh. So I am happy whenever my friends' doughters play with my hair and do it for me :p
Remember to allways rince the conditioner thouroughly - rinse until your hair "squeeks" between your fingers when your run a few hairs between them. This reduces the oiliness a lot. You can also try to apply the conditioner (for your haircare routine) only on your hair, meaning not directly on your scalp. This is of course not possible when you are drenching your hair for detangling.
Good luck and keep up the good work with detangling!

[NightDaemon]

Okay, a few add-on questions (sorry to keep going on, but I'd rather learn than experiment and screw up)... Wet hair: best time to brush or stupid time to brush? I've heard both opinions... Also, drying hair out, towel, blow-drier or air-dry?

[NightDaemon]

Well, I don't know how bad it looked before, but the wawes are nice and shiny in the lenghts! Good work!

Thanks! The icky bit is all up the top now, hopefully it'll all look like the bottom parts do (if not better) pretty soon, with all the advice I'm getting from you folks!


If you still want to wear a ponytail, try this trick to keep the hair from tangling again: use an elastic/scrunchie/whatever to hold your hair. Then, put another elastic 2-3 inches down the ponytail, then another one etc. This way, your hair is "closed" almost as in a braid, it looks good and you reduce further tangling!

I used to do that sometimes back when my hair was good. The tail part was usually mostly tangle-free, it was the pony's butt that is the back of my head that got tangled. I picked that trick up off a girl I had a crush on, she had a really long braided tail with different coloured elastics all along the length, sooooo pretty. Probably half the reason I grew mine long ;)

[Monsterkitti]

Hi :)

I dont really know about the brushing question, I dont use brushes, I just finger comb my hair but it sounds like your hair is pretty unruly so combing could be best for you. Combing gently while you have conditioner in would probably help with detangling but the hair breaks more easily when wet so you'd have to be pretty careful.

I much prefer air drying my hair now, blow driers can cause damage as can vigourously rubbing your hair with a towel to dry it (I had to really wean myself off that :)) Also air drying seems to help keep curls intact as your arent really disturbing the pattern of the curls.

Good luck with the detangling :)

[Arctic_Mama]

It looks like you got a lot of the matting out, I really feel for you on that last snarl :(

You've been given GREAT advice here, I just wanted to offer up some encouragement and a thumbs up to SOAKING in conditioner before detangling. My hair loves to tangle like crazy as well (thick and curly or wavy is not the greatest combo for neatness!) and that's the best method I've found.

[NightDaemon]

Heh, I'm not too concerned with keeping my curls. Having butt-length dead-straight hair would be impractical for me only because of the dancing for joy getting in the way of my life. ;)

[Anje]

Okay, a few add-on questions (sorry to keep going on, but I'd rather learn than experiment and screw up)... Wet hair: best time to brush or stupid time to brush? I've heard both opinions... Also, drying hair out, towel, blow-drier or air-dry?

You've got a bit of a trade-off. Wet hair is more fragile than dry hair and more likely to break, but hair that's full of conditioner is probably the easiest to detangle, particularly if you have curls.

Brushing itself may not be the best option, particularly with curly hair. It separates strands a lot more, leading to massive poofiness (in the American sense ;)) You might be better off with combing, or even fingercombing if you can keep the tangles under control that way.

[RavennaNight]

Heh, I'm not too concerned with keeping my curls. Having butt-length dead-straight hair would be impractical for me only because of the dancing for joy getting in the way of my life. ;)

Although your hair may not get completely straight, as you grow, it will get heavier and that will loosen said waves/curls. BTW where's your pic? The link doesn't work.

[NightDaemon]

Although your hair may not get completely straight, as you grow, it will get heavier and that will loosen said waves/curls. BTW where's your pic? The link doesn't work.
Yeah.. my web host isn't so good for linked images. If you copy the address instead of clicking the link, it works better. I should kick it in the... well, it's too far away to kick, but you get the idea.

And yeah, my hair is starting to de-curly already, most of what you can see remaining of the curls is the bunch of little rings right at the bottom, having it long has REALLY fixed my curly problems when I remember not to let it get nasty. In high school, when I had it short but forgot to get it cut, my nickname was 'afro' because it naturally went poofy (American meaning). Going on my dream hair at the moment, it'd be going more of the local meaning of poofy, but that's their loss because with all of your help, it's going to be AWESOME! :cheese:

[ChatoyantLocks]

I've tried to braid my hair, but never managed it. I know the theory of braiding, and theoretically how to do it, but I've never managed, and it seems like it'd take ages.


Braiding can go really fast, once you get the hang of it! I have hair that goes to mid-thigh, and I can put my hair in a simple braid in less than two minutes.

[NightDaemon]

Whew. One session with a comb-wielding mother and one shower with a wash like it's not had in years later, and wow is that a difference. I even worked out how to do that towel-turban thingy to keep the wet mop out of the way! Of course, I'm gonna guess that most of you learned this stuff as kids and are currently wondering how the heck I could let it get this bad... I wonder that myself some days. I know I said this to myself last time this happened, but after it's all good this time, I'm gonna keep it that way.

Holes are starting to show in the unholy mess, and when said mess-mop is drier, I'll comb it out some and see how much more progress I've made today with your help (and obviously mum's help on the combing side), but it's definately more than I've made in several months previously.

You should all form a hair-based superhero group.

[NightDaemon]

The most curious thing has happened with my hair matting... After the brushing by someone who could see what they're doing and thorough washing, the big knotty mat at the back of my head, bigger than my fist, has uncurled, and is now about a quarter as thick but down past my shoulders... could be trickier to hide it in a ponytail, but we've got it on the run! So... just hope I can get the rest knocked off before training and work tomorrow night.

[Janka]

Congrats!
Happy to have helped you :-)
In order to try to not let it come that bad ever again, you can use leave-in conditioners and/or detangle sprays. But I have straight hair, thus no experience how they behave on wavy hair. But I can imagine that it can work, as they make the hair a bit slippery, so it cannot tangle so easily (other hair-based superheros, correct me if I'm wrong ;-))
I found out that my hair is much easier to comb/detangle when it's dry. So I let it dry (usually air dry, I use the hair dryer only if short of time) all messy and comb it when dry. Sometimes, I use such a leave-in conditioner spray. It's almost impossible for me to comb my hair without a conditioner, so you might try using a conditioner every time you wash your hair. As I said before, the conditioners which are supposed to be washed out must really be washed off completely. The ones supposed to stay in are much lighter. But still, try to avoid your scalp to reduce the oiliness.
My self-made turban-thingie never held, so I bought one in a store. Thumbs up for your success!

[hennabrain]

Thanks for all the tips! I'm gonna have to find some time soon (I had been planning on spending today on it, but something came up) to really hammer away (figuratively) at this. I'll let you all know how it turns out. Some of the things for after I get it worked out I could end up being a little shy about, guys traditionally have a few less options in this area. Maybe a nice braid until I work up the guts/skills for something fancier.

try the curltalk forums at naturallycurly.com. there are several guys who post regularly. there is a forum for guys there, and also one for people growing out curly hair, and of course, lots of information on how to to totally mess up curly hair! good luck. :)

[missy60]

As a curly it is much easier to comb hair in the shower with conditioner on it. I use a wide tooth comb for this. I also do this with my DGD who doesnt have curly hair but it tangles alot. She is so tender headed it makes things so much easier.

How long was your hair in that pony tail?

[spidermom]

About brushing: NEVER brush wet hair. NEVER brush curly hair. Get a strong wide-tooth comb. I've got two. One is plastic and used in the shower to comb conditioner through my hair, which is the best time and place for me to detangle (gently, from the bottom). Try it. I'll bet it will be a good idea for you. My other comb is hardwood and used only on dry hair.

[sky]

Untangling while dry is a guarantee for damage!

Try getting into the shower, armed w/ a huge bottle of the slipperiest (izzat even a word???) conditioner you can find.

Wet the hair and start working the condish through until it is sopping w/ it.

Then start at the bottom of the strands and w/ your fingers, work your way up to and through each snarl until that strand is untangled.

This will take some time. Be patient. Take a chair in there w/ ya, or something. Bring a book. :lol:

After you have the tangles all out, slather the entire hair w/ even more condish. Finger-comb it through and get the last little snarls that think they're going to hide from you.

Then rinse. Finger comb again, if you like. Air dry and don't mess w/ it any further.

Stay away from brushes.....they create frizz and enhance the snarl process.

And you already know how you got here, so you already know how to avoid this in the future.

sky

[Pierre]

I find two braids to be the best style if I want to do my hair and leave it for a few days. If your hair is curlier than mine, you may find three or five braids better. I don't (usually) use anything to tie off the braids; I braid it, leaving a decimeter loose, then sleep with the braid in a Buff, then finish braiding the next day.

If I have no time to braid, I make a bun with a hair scroo.

I second detangling in the shower. I don't use condish though. I oil my hair, and it's hennaed, so it stays pretty well conditioned.

[heidi w.]

To condition curly hair in the shower
....to echo what others have said....so you have consensus

Use a very wide plastic comb with no edges between the teeth (no mold seams that jut out -- you can sand them down with fine grade sandpaper). Look in the ethnic section of your local drugstore for appropriate combs.

Detangle hair before getting in the shower.

If you practice scritching, do so, and detangle.

enter shower with detangled hair!

Wet hair and wash per normal.

Do not pile hair and scrub around.

Instead, squeeze your shampoo method/choice down the length.

(IF uber curly, my guess is eventually you'll want to check out CO washing for at least the length)

Rinse. rinse. rinse.

To condition specifically -
slather on conditioner to the length (I recommend the length only, not scalp skin itself)
Then leave the conditioner in, with very wet hair, in a warm shower for humidity
Then dip the comb in the vat of conditioner (YOU MAY HAVE TO SET THIS UP IN ADVANCE) coating the comb entirely
and using the power of the shower water
gently glide through the hair, from bottom up!
continuously dip the comb to keep it coated with conditioner

allow conditioner to stay on for a bit, warming with dribbles of warm shower water
(cold means the cuticle comes down and closes off access to the cortex)

then
rinse.
rinse.
rinse.

Out of shower, ring out hair gently.

You can now apply a chosen leave-in OR you can oil (best, if you choose to oil, with curly hair to put some carrier oil in spritzer/misting bottle with some water, shake it and spritz on damp hair and then just work in with hands by lightly squeezing a bit).

As already emphatically stated, NEVER use a brush on curly hair.

If not used to working with a comb, it does take a little bit to get the hang of it.

And NEVER detangle from the top of head down, ripping through hair: bottom up, gently in sections....

Super curly you can possibly think about finger combing or using more like a pick where you more kinda stab into the hair so as not to upset the furls and the locks joined together in rings or spirals or curls.

heidi w.

[NightDaemon]

As a curly it is much easier to comb hair in the shower with conditioner on it. I use a wide tooth comb for this. I also do this with my DGD who doesnt have curly hair but it tangles alot. She is so tender headed it makes things so much easier.

How long was your hair in that pony tail?

Probably not even shoulder length, last week. At the moment, there's hair reaching down to the small of my back.

[*BelievingAgain]

I hope you find the solution you need! I'm thinking of you :flower:

[Honey39]

I've got thick, curly-ish hair, and what works for me is detangling IN the shower, and then gently combing through with a wide-toothed comb when it's wet/damp. Other than that, I don't try and comb it, and never ever brush!

But I DO get it wet every day (using conditioner only). My hair is too hard to detangle when it's dry, to be honest. When it's wet, it's pretty easy to do, and the trick with curly/wavy hair is to LEAVE IT ALONE when it's drying!

Depends what you can face as your routine. I think my hair would get matted quite quickly to be honest, I'm looking at it now - it's hard to run my fingers through it when it's dry.

I think a plait/braid would look really good on you, to be hoenst.

Anyway, good luck - you've got great hair.

[fleurdelis]

... Of course, I'm gonna guess that most of you learned this stuff as kids and are currently wondering how the heck I could let it get this bad... I wonder that myself some days. I know I said this to myself last time this happened, but after it's all good this time, I'm gonna keep it that way...

.

Ha, do not worrry..I also discovered what conditioner was like a year ago...:)

[maskedrose]

I'm so glad that you finally got most of the tangle out! Judging from your first pic (barring the still-matted bit) it looks as though you have great hair! You've already got some excellent advice on hair care, so I won't add anything other than to give you a link to my favorite brush:

http://www.thebodyshop-usa.com/bodyshop/browse/product_detail.jsp?categoryId=cat30050&productId=prod160019

I have very wavy/slightly curly hair, and I've found that this brush is great for detangling both wet and dry hair. Combs seem to make my hair tangle more, but this just glides through my hair. I always pick out knots with my fingers though, otherwise my brush might rip them out.

Get yourself a nice shampoo and conditioner (or read about Conditioner-Only or CO washes - they're my favorite) and remember to detangle before you get in the shower and after.

I'm sure all of this info is overwhelming, but here's something to keep you going - long, well-cared for hair is downright sexy on a guy! Take good care of it, get it trimmed every few months, don't let it get matted again and this :crush: will be many a woman's reaction!

[NightDaemon]

Aha, so the brush/comb war rages on!

[PeaceWithTrees]

If you dont want to go to the salon, You should go to a friend or family member. I have had to detangle my sisters mats from when she had braids many times! When I was little, I got a bad mat ocassionally, and My mom, Very patient woman she is, Just sat there is pulled the individual hair one my one untill they all of them were free. Im sure someone would be will to help you out! I WOULD!!!

This happened to my sister! She went to hairdresser to help her detangle it. Dont be embarrassed, they are supposed to me hair people! Just make sure you explain your situation BEFORE you make you appointment to be sure you get someone willling to help you. Just tell them you have detangled it yourself before! And Flatter them by asking them to give you some tips for keep it up!

[maskedrose]

Aha, so the brush/comb war rages on!

Hehe... we all have our opinions, that's for sure! Although mine is technically a brush, it has wooden quills that don't rip through hair like some do.

[NightDaemon]

If you dont want to go to the salon, You should go to a friend or family member. I have had to detangle my sisters mats from when she had braids many times! When I was little, I got a bad mat ocassionally, and My mom, Very patient woman she is, Just sat there is pulled the individual hair one my one untill they all of them were free. Im sure someone would be will to help you out! I WOULD!!!

This happened to my sister! She went to hairdresser to help her detangle it. Dont be embarrassed, they are supposed to me hair people! Just make sure you explain your situation BEFORE you make you appointment to be sure you get someone willling to help you. Just tell them you have detangled it yourself before! And Flatter them by asking them to give you some tips for keep it up!

As I said before, I was getting some motherly help on it last night, and I that's when it hit that one secret little point where it all starts to fall apart. I had just wanted to get at least a start on it and get the ickiest bits out of the way beforehand.

[NightDaemon]

A progress update for you lovelies!

I snapped this pic quickly on my way out to work, and yes, I know, evil ponytail, but I needed it in check for training and work. No-one commented on its sudden tripling in length, for some reason...

I'm gonna take tonight off of working on it, give my neck and wrist some rest, and have another hammer at it tomorrow. A day or two more of this and I'll be done!

http://nightdaemon.freehostia.com/Hair2.jpg

[Isblå]

Hey! Starting to look good! I'm happy for you. And don't be ashamed of the ponytail, you did secure it with elastics at regular intervals, this will help keep your hair from tangling. When you are tangle free, I suggest trying out the simple braid.

Good luck with sorting out the rest and dont forget conditioner!

[maskedrose]

Looking good! And so THICK :bigeyes: The banded pony looks really nice on you too.

[NightDaemon]

The top section is only thick because it's still matted... the rest just kinda goes outwards whenever it does everything... Is that thick? I've not got much objective measure of such things...

[Janka]

Wow, your hair looks longer and definitely better/healthier now!
I think most people just ignore other's people hair... unless it looks really catastrophic suddenly... But I'm sure you will get compliments for your hair in real life as well, not only here in the forum from us, hair-addicts ;-)
The most important fact is that you are getting happy with your hair and thinking of it more often and taking good care of it!
As for the classification and other objective measures, check out this article on categorizing hair: http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/vbjournal.php?do=article&articleid=5
It's these funny chacarcters/numbers most have next to their names and in signatures... ;-)
I also maesured my hair for the first time ever when I joined the LHC. That way, the we can help each other with hair troubles etc. because the hair type is known.
Thumbs up!
J.

[Kaeri]

Congratulations on getting your hair detangled so far, theres a world of improvement in your second picture.

You sound like you've had loads of great advice so i've nothing further to offer there but keep going and dont lose heart. Basically just a thumbs up post :)

[alinakathryn]

How is your progress? Did you enlist mom help again to get the mat out? We would like more pictures :)

[NightDaemon]

I'm still working away at it, cleared about an inch from the bottom of the matting today (had to take a bit of a break to let my poor neck recover). There's maybe four inches left, but the last two will be the easiest since it'll have just fall apart. It's a lot easier since it uncurled, I can see progress every session. Next pic will be when it's all combed out.

[NightDaemon]

Very nearly done now... Just a few more days (hopefully) and I'll have a rack of photos for you folks! Trying to work out a set of styles I can do, maybe have a nice rotation instead of being boring all the time. So far, I've got just loose, banded tail and single braid.
Any other suggestions as to styles that don't take too much skill to do that I can get into my list when my hair's good?

[maskedrose]

A folded braid looks great on guys too - just fold your single braid in half and secure it at your nape. I've seen guys put leather slides around the end too - that looks awesome! Try out a rope braid as well or even a low, manly bun if you feel up to it :)

Can't wait for new pics!

[NightDaemon]

What's a rope braid? If there's some site that has all of these things, I'd love a link.

EDIT:
After I had a poke around the forums some more, I found just such a link. Definately trying a rope braid.

[NightDaemon]

Oh, and while people are thinking up styles to suggest, one particular style I need to find for myself once my hair is good is one to have when I'm working out. I do a martial art with all sorts of jumping and such, so something that behaves itself and doesn't go all over the place after the first few bounces. At the moment, I'm just using my banded tail for that, since it's easy to fix.

[NightDaemon]

Update time! Looong process. One segment is denser than the rest, so it's taking a lot longer to untangle than the others. I think it was the core of the big ball that was there before I started. I'm gonna try absoloutely soaking it with that detangling spray, see if that helps.

[NightDaemon]

Pic time! It's not done yet, but it's getting a lot closer. Unlike the last banded tail pic I posted, the matting only reaches down to the FIRST band, rather than the SECOND. It looks a lot straighter now than the last one, probably because it's a four-band rather than three-band setup.

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=23155

Yay for it letting me have images on here now instead of links.

[taliarose]

Great going! For martial arts go with the braid since that shortens the lenght. This way if it goes flying while you kick or spin it won't hit anyone else. :D

Love the pic's by the way. :wink:

[maskedrose]

Its looking SO much better!

[NightDaemon]

Huzzah! I tied my first rope braid today!

Woe! I forget to check that my ponytail was central to my head before I did it. All that work down the dunny.

Any tips on how to do them such that your hands don't feel like they're on fire when you do one?

[peachy.pudding]

I would wet it dowm apply Aussie 3MM leave it on for half and hour, rinse then apply some oil and conditioner when damp, then put into sections and comb out will a thin tooth comb very gently and slowly until each section is knot free, sorry there is no quick fix except comb comb and comb

[NightDaemon]

I've got some leave-in detangler spray that's speeding things a little, but I'm going at the densest mats now, so it's a slow process. I've never seen any Aussie 3MM around, but I've not really looked until now. I guess I'll go to Hairhouse Warehouse again and see if they have it... You'd think the Aussie bit would make it easier to find in Aus ;)

[Dolly]

I've got some leave-in detangler spray that's speeding things a little, but I'm going at the densest mats now, so it's a slow process. I've never seen any Aussie 3MM around, but I've not really looked until now. I guess I'll go to Hairhouse Warehouse again and see if they have it... You'd think the Aussie bit would make it easier to find in Aus ;)


HAHA.....yeah, you would think so, huh? As far as commercial products go, I really like the Aussie line.....some of them are pretty coney, but my hair does ok with, and even likes a little bit of cone here and there. Aussie actually makes my favorite detangling spray......lots of slip and smells nice, too......


BTW, you are really making some good progress.....keep it up!!

[NightDaemon]

Another session with my mother, and I can actually run my finger down the back of my head in places without it getting stuck in tangles! Yay!

And apparently, she used to have classic-length of a very similar hair type, right down to the greasiness that it loves to get.

[Melisande]

I've been lurking until now but followed your adventures. I must say I'm glad you're finally rid of the tangles! It was painful to read. You can be proud of yourself for keeping your hair and going to have a chop and be done.

Now keep up the good work and keep your hair in tip top condition. You will have so much fun with it.

[NightDaemon]

Still a ways to go with getting the tangles out, but there's a big hole in the middle of what was a solid clump not so long ago.

[NightDaemon]

Just another update! Not there yet, but oh so close. The matting has split in two, and the clump to the left has gone from the larger of the two to almost gone. I give it another day or two and I'll be able to get my comb from hairline to tips in one stroke, and that is going to feel so good... Then, I just need to repeat the process on the right side.

It's taking a little longer than I had hoped after the first big burst of progress, but it's getting there, and once I've earned my hair, you can just bet I'll be taking better care of it. I think it's at least BSL-equivalent, some strands go down waist-length on a good day... Once it's all done, tape-measure time!

[HairColoredHair]

I'm glad to hear it's getting back towards 'normal'!

All this work surely means you'll be devoted to it from now on!

[Monsterkitti]

Glad your still progressing well with it, the latest photo looks so much better :)

[NightDaemon]

The latest photo looks pretty horrible compared to how it is now. When the left is free, I'll take another pic with it down.

[NightDaemon]

Okay, I spoke too soon. The mat just fell apart, and I got my comb from eyebrows to the tips. Hair under matting itches occasionally, with relief only coming from a PDA stylus... I pray none of you ever know how much of a relief it is to feel a comb go down the length of your head after so long in a mat, but mmm is it good.

[NightDaemon]

Okay, a quick battery charge later, it's pic time! As I said, the left side is finally free of tangles and matting, I'm going to give it all a good wash tomorrow then start to work on the right once it dries. The matting that's left is probably half an inch thick, roughly circular, and a couple of inches long. So, not too long now! I can't wait for updos!

My hair was really shiny just after the combing, no idea why but it looked awesome in the mirror (less so in this pic)

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=1923&pictureid=23876

Anyone want to have a crack at typing? The top is really straight, then it seems to fade down the spectrum...

[MischiefsMuse]

I know there should be a picture in your last post (#76) NightDaemon but for some reason I don't see anything- not even an image place holder!

What a crazy adventure you've had! I can't imagine how amazing it would be to comb your hair out of a nest and find it had gone from shoulder length to past BSL... :magic: Hope your head doesn't hurt too much!

[NightDaemon]

I know there should be a picture in your last post (#76) NightDaemon but for some reason I don't see anything- not even an image place holder!

What a crazy adventure you've had! I can't imagine how amazing it would be to comb your hair out of a nest and find it had gone from shoulder length to past BSL... :magic: Hope your head doesn't hurt too much!
Indeed there is a pic there... and the head-hurty is pretty much why it's taken this long, I go until my scalp/neck/arm can't take it (whichever comes first) then rest.

[Amara]

Congrats on your great progress!

[Krifantasy]

It is wonderful that you are making such progress! Hope the right side goes well too!

[maskedrose]

It's looking great! Such an improvement from when you started, and I bet it will feel awesome to finally run your comb down all of your scalp.

As for typing, I'd say 2b/2c from your persistant ringlets at the bottom. Perhaps when you are all de-matted you can show us a pic of just washed, untouched hair so we can get a better idea?

[Jorja]

... As for pink and sparkly... well, I won't say I'll rule that out all the time, especially the sparkly bit. Unless it starts distracting me too much, that is. I can just see me with a sparkly thing on the end of my braid and spending all my time batting it around. Wheee.

LOL that made me laugh.

Well done on the hair repair :)

[NightDaemon]

It Is Done!

I can't believe this. It's actually all untangled. Given it a few runthroughs with the fancy Body Shop wooden-toothed brush, and it feels great. Gonna give it a good clarifying (dang grease) and some head and shoulders and lotsa conditioner tomorrow, and then pics! I'm off to try updos.

[Isblå]

It Is Done!

I can't believe this. It's actually all untangled. Given it a few runthroughs with the fancy Body Shop wooden-toothed brush, and it feels great. Gonna give it a good clarifying (dang grease) and some head and shoulders and lotsa conditioner tomorrow, and then pics! I'm off to try updos.

That is fantastic! Good for you that you didn't cave and just cut. From the other pictures I have to say that your hair looks wonderful too. Time for :cheese:

[NightDaemon]

That is fantastic! Good for you that you didn't cave and just cut. From the other pictures I have to say that your hair looks wonderful too. Time for :cheese:
Well, if I was going to cut it, I'd have done it before the untangling, and gone back to the style I had 5 years ago... number 2 on the sides, number 8 on the top... I can't believe it used to be that short... Short hair on me doesn't look so crash hot.

:cheese::cheese::cheese:

[HairColoredHair]

It Is Done!

I can't believe this. It's actually all untangled. Given it a few runthroughs with the fancy Body Shop wooden-toothed brush, and it feels great. Gonna give it a good clarifying (dang grease) and some head and shoulders and lotsa conditioner tomorrow, and then pics! I'm off to try updos.

Hurray! :cheese::cheese:

[Janka]

Good job! I never had that matted hair, but I can imagine it's a great feeling to have nice, tangle-free hair after a long time!
So you also got the wooden comb ;) I thought, well I like my plastic one, but then the first static charges came with the autumn and I bought the wooden one. And my plastic comb is now somewhere in the drawer having nothing to do ;)
Now you can really enjoy your hair and playing with it (lots of styles waiting for trying!) and continue the good care you started!

[Anje]

Yay! I'm glad the mats are finally gone! (Now for the fun parts....)

[NightDaemon]

Well, it's a wooden brush, not a wooden comb... The Body Shop didn't have any combs when I went in, but the brush seems really cool (and don't worry, I haven't done any detangling with it).

So, I tried a few updos and braids and such, and pretty much just discovered that I really really really suck at them.

[Lady Lilya]

It takes time. Most of us have decades of practice.

[alinakathryn]

Yay!! I can't wait to see the pictures

[ktani]

I am glad to read that it worked out well for you.

One of the most popular conditioners on makeupalley.com is Feria Conditioner, which contains silicones and can be bought separately from the hair colour of the same name, at Sally's. I do not think it is for regular use but it may help with your current problem, every so often.
http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=1420/Feria_Conditioner/L_Oreal/Conditioner

[NightDaemon]

Woo! Clip bun! First updo, wore it out today (after buying the clip, of course). Got a couple of sparkly sticks, gonna work out how to use them, later.

[Tressie]

heide w., That was some great adivce! I especially liked the part about the "hero of the night" :rollin: You rock girl!! :D

[NightDaemon]

Okay, it's cleaned and washed and clean and such, just drying now. Pics when it's dry.

[NightDaemon]

Okay, just vaguely damp now, but pretty much dry, and BOY did it ever get curly after the wash. Anyone think they can ID the type now?

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2032&pictureid=24415

[missy60]

Woo Hoo you made it! Cant wait to see pictures

[missy60]

Im not really good at hair typing but from the looks of the picture I would think it would be curlier then it appears. Did you just comb it once while wet to detangle and then leave it alone? You have to just detangle and apply no product and air dry to get a true hair typing. What made me wonder if you combed while drying is because Im 2C/3A and your hair looks like it has tighter curls but straight at the top. It appears to just be combed out though

ETA: wow this seems sort of crazy you have all those tangles and need to comb and now Im telling you to not comb.

[NightDaemon]

I did comb it once to detangle, nothing else though. It's pretty much all air-dried as well, though I wrapped a towel around it for a few, to get it from dripping to damp. Would that have affected it?

[missy60]

Well you did it exactly right then sorry to be so confusing. It just looked like you had tighter curls then mine that maybe you had brushed out. Like I said Im not to good at hair typing but I my guess would be 3A. YOur hair is looking great keep up the good work.

[missy60]

Woo Hoo you made it! Cant wait to see pictures

[missy60]

Woo Hoo you made it! Cant wait to see pictures

[missy60]

Woo Hoo you made it! Cant wait to see pictures

[missy60]

I dont understand why it keeps posting that over and over. On my last two post I just edited that post to make my comments, but here it is 2 more times. I was excited to see your pictures but now you have already posted them so Im starting to look crazy...lol

[NightDaemon]

Woo Hoo you made it! Cant wait to see pictures
Having computer troubles? Seem to be multiposting...

EDIT: Well, between when I started my post and when it posted, you responded, so I guess I look a bit thick.

[NightDaemon]

More pics! This is my first really successful bun attempt (I was wearing a clip bun while I was out today, but it wasn't that good. Will need to practice it. This Lazy Wrap Bun broke one of my two sticks when I was practicing... Then again, it was just a pretty cheap plastic one... I'll hunt down some nice metal ones I think. Perhaps from one of the Asian or cooking supply shops, metal chopsticks hurrah. Dang glad I didn't practice with any of the nice chopsticks we have at home, now. Anyone got tips?

http://forums.longhaircommunity.com/picture.php?albumid=2032&pictureid=24418

[NightDaemon]

Okay, I think my hair is pretty much under control now, and I have one more question before I say buh-bye to this thread o' mine and start making other threads to prattle on about the top of my head.

My hair is so soft and amazing at the moment, after just one wash after too much neglect. Is my hair showing gratitude for my being nice to it, or are my standards just that low?

[Isblå]

Hm. It is hard to say, but it could be. You have rather curly hair, and curly hair tends to get dry easily. When your hair was matted, it might have kept more greasiness in the mats than usually, kept the amount of oil through the wash. Mind you, you can certainly use washmethods that keeps your hair like this all (or most of) the time.

I don't know how your hair is usually, so I am just venturing a guess. Updo looks good by the way, and I think it would be even better with the metal hairsticks you are planning to buy!

[Lady Lilya]

Boo hooooo. Can't see the pics.

I assume this is something to do with user privileges due to post count.

[Lady Lilya]

Hmmmm, I have more than 25 posts now, but still can't see anything. Better check with a mod.

[Lady Lilya]

YAY today I can see your imbedded pics!

Your hair looks great! The bun looks very successful too.

If your hair is a 3A, I am wondering if I am not really a 3B after all, but maybe a 3C.